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Question: What happens first:
New ATH - 43 (69.4%)
<$60,000 - 19 (30.6%)
Total Voters: 62

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26409424 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
JorgeStolfi
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December 30, 2014, 12:30:20 AM

Many thanks for your comprehensive answer!
It seems, as I've found in the last couple of hours, the use faulty PSRNG's might pose a threat, maybe significant enough to drive the price further down.
The unfolding story is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=107172.msg8939173#msg8939173 I hope you'll find it interesting enough to consider including it in your great work (I'm closely following your posts) that you're doing on studying/documenting the whole ecosystem.

Thanks for the link and the compliment!

As I understood it, those Hyena guys claim that many wallet tools use PSRNGs that generate less than the required 2^160 bits of entropy.  They claim that the entropy is low enough that the chance of a collision is not negligible; and they have set up a lot of disk and computing power to catch for such collisions.

I doubt whether good PSRNGs, correctly implemented and used, have such a low entropy.  However, the probability of coding errors makes the project more plausible.  In conditional probability notation:

P(security broken) =
  P(software is correct) * P(security broken IF software is correct) +
  P(software is buggy) * P(security broken IF software is buggy)

A strong cryptographic method only ensures that the factor P(security broken IF software is correct) in the first term is astronomically small.  However, the factors P(software is buggy) and P(security broken IF software is buggy) are large enough to matter.  For bitcoin, empirically, the second term may be on the order of 1 in 10'000 or more, and is unlikely to decrease. (As time passes, the best implementations may get somewhat more secure; but the number of implementations will grow, so there will be fewer competent eyes checking each of them, and reports of coin theft will get less attention.)  Thus, P(security broken) should be large enough to notice, and will not be improved by switching to 512 bit keys or whatever.
Wandererfromthenorth
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December 30, 2014, 12:41:45 AM

I fucking LOL'd


https://twitter.com/el33th4xor/status/549402148816293888
ChartBuddy
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December 30, 2014, 01:00:21 AM


Explanation
Richy_T
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December 30, 2014, 01:10:59 AM

Many thanks for your comprehensive answer!
It seems, as I've found in the last couple of hours, the use faulty PSRNG's might pose a threat, maybe significant enough to drive the price further down.
The unfolding story is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=107172.msg8939173#msg8939173 I hope you'll find it interesting enough to consider including it in your great work (I'm closely following your posts) that you're doing on studying/documenting the whole ecosystem.

Thanks for the link and the compliment!

As I understood it, those Hyena guys claim that many wallet tools use PSRNGs that generate less than the required 2^160 bits of entropy.  They claim that the entropy is low enough that the chance of a collision is not negligible; and they have set up a lot of disk and computing power to catch for such collisions.

I doubt whether good PSRNGs, correctly implemented and used, have such a low entropy.  However, the probability of coding errors makes the project more plausible.  In conditional probability notation:

P(security broken) =
  P(software is correct) * P(security broken IF software is correct) +
  P(software is buggy) * P(security broken IF software is buggy)

A strong cryptographic method only ensures that the factor P(security broken IF software is correct) in the first term is astronomically small.  However, the factors P(software is buggy) and P(security broken IF software is buggy) are large enough to matter.  For bitcoin, empirically, the second term may be on the order of 1 in 10'000 or more, and is unlikely to decrease. (As time passes, the best implementations may get somewhat more secure; but the number of implementations will grow, so there will be fewer competent eyes checking each of them, and reports of coin theft will get less attention.)  Thus, P(security broken) should be large enough to notice, and will not be improved by switching to 512 bit keys or whatever.

For anyone really concerned, they may want to generate a private key with some dice.
Son0fLamb
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December 30, 2014, 01:16:22 AM


Cheesy
thefunkybits
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December 30, 2014, 02:00:16 AM

Is it just me or have the orderbooks changed to the bullish side of things?
ChartBuddy
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December 30, 2014, 02:00:20 AM


Explanation
pjviitas
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December 30, 2014, 02:04:10 AM

Can someone explain why a double bottom is not forming on the 1w charts?
TheJuice
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December 30, 2014, 02:07:06 AM

All signs point to a big bounce in the next 3 weeks.
thefunkybits
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December 30, 2014, 02:12:20 AM

Can someone explain why a double bottom is not forming on the 1w charts?

maybe it is...we wont know until it breaks up (if it does)
cbeast
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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


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December 30, 2014, 02:17:12 AM

Can someone explain why a double bottom is not forming on the 1w charts?

maybe it is...we wont know until it breaks up (if it does)
We're looking at a big booty double bottom, not one of those skinny bulimic double bottoms.
thefunkybits
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December 30, 2014, 02:20:44 AM
Last edit: December 30, 2014, 02:35:06 AM by thefunkybits

Can someone explain why a double bottom is not forming on the 1w charts?

maybe it is...we wont know until it breaks up (if it does)
We're looking at a big booty double bottom, not one of those skinny bulimic double bottoms.

I sure hope so....buying a bit right now
JorgeStolfi
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December 30, 2014, 02:44:14 AM


Claims that two other cloud-mining outfits, presumed ponzis, closed almost at the same time:
http://qntra.net/2014/12/while-some-ponzi-schemes-implode-other-fraudsters-double-down/
catena5260
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December 30, 2014, 02:46:17 AM

All signs point to a big bounce in the next 3 weeks.

what signs?
Silverspoon
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December 30, 2014, 02:59:44 AM

All signs point to a big bounce in the next 3 weeks.

what signs?

Heresy detected.  Ignored.
ChartBuddy
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December 30, 2014, 03:00:22 AM


Explanation
catena5260
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December 30, 2014, 03:07:26 AM

All signs point to a big bounce in the next 3 weeks.

what signs?

Heresy detected.  Ignored.

I don't understand TA things Sad

It is a serious question
pjviitas
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December 30, 2014, 03:21:10 AM

All signs point to a big bounce in the next 3 weeks.

what signs?

Heresy detected.  Ignored.

I don't understand TA things Sad

It is a serious question

It is actually a very serious question.

If a double bottom does not form on the 1w charts it will be impossible for BTC price to get out of this rut.
JayJuanGee
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December 30, 2014, 03:30:42 AM

Can someone explain why a double bottom is not forming on the 1w charts?

maybe it is...we wont know until it breaks up (if it does)
We're looking at a big booty double bottom, not one of those skinny bulimic double bottoms.


Maybe something like the below bottom:

silverfuture
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central banking = outdated protocol


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December 30, 2014, 03:38:12 AM

Can someone explain why a double bottom is not forming on the 1w charts?

maybe it is...we wont know until it breaks up (if it does)
We're looking at a big booty double bottom, not one of those skinny bulimic double bottoms.


Maybe something like the below bottom:



This lady's got the thickness.  BUY SIGNAL!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n7uVDQWrYs
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