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[justusranvier]

3. Requires cables with tensile strength well beyond our current ability.

Technically not true. The existing materials would just require a stupidly large maximum cross section. Kevlar works for Earth if you don't mind the cable starting out at 1 inch wide at ground level and a mile wide at geosynchronous height.

Kevlar and similarly strong materials would give taper ratios that are quite reasonable for a lunar space elevator, and only slightly ridiculous for a martian space elevator.

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[myrkul]

3. Requires cables with tensile strength well beyond our current ability.

Technically not true. The existing materials would just require a stupidly large maximum cross section. Kevlar works for Earth if you don't mind the cable starting out at 1 inch wide at ground level and a mile wide at geosynchronous height.

Now, try and image a car capable of riding that cable...

Luna and Mars aren't our main concerns... all of our people, and more importantly, almost all of our stuff, is all at the bottom of Earth's annoyingly deep gravity well.

One alternative to the elevator which looks interesting, if mind-bogglingly dangerous (but good god, FUN!) is the space hook. Basically, you're in a special vehicle on the ground, when from the west comes this massive, rapidly moving hook. There is an earth-shattering CLUNK as it grabs the specially designed tether point on the roof of your vehicle, and suddenly, you're not on the ground anymore. The hook rotates around, and flings you off into space. Meanwhile, the other end is back down on earth, picking up another payload.

[justusranvier]

Luna and Mars aren't our main concerns... all of our people, and more importantly, almost all of our stuff, is all at the bottom of Earth's annoyingly deep gravity well.

They are concerns if you want viable colonies. In order to get supplies from Earth they are going to have to export useful things back. Anything that makes this cheaper makes the colonies less impossible economically.

[myrkul]

Luna and Mars aren't our main concerns... all of our people, and more importantly, almost all of our stuff, is all at the bottom of Earth's annoyingly deep gravity well.

They are concerns if you want viable colonies. In order to get supplies from Earth they are going to have to export useful things back. Anything that makes this cheaper makes the colonies less impossible economically.

Luna's sitting at the top of Earth's gravity well, and has a comparatively shallow well. The colonists could practically step out the door and throw stuff back down to earth. At the very least, launch velocities are well within the capabilities of, say, a linear motor.

[FirstAscent]

Turn the volume up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muPNlnm_i44

[grondilu]

Turn the volume up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muPNlnm_i44

This movie and others have done a lot to manned space exploration.   I'd even say they played a prominent role.

This should make us think, though.  Had there not been such a huge SF fiction literature and cinematography about space, people would not give a crap about it, as they would see space for what it is:   an almost perfect vacuum, extremely hostile to any life form, where it is very difficult to go and where there is pretty much nothing to do.

Manned space exploration enthusiasm is basically delusional.

[myrkul]

Manned space exploration enthusiasm is basically delusional.

OK, when the next dinosaur killer hits, I'll be waving at you from my dome on Ceres.

Then we'll see who has the more hostile living environment.

[psybits]

Turn the volume up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muPNlnm_i44

This movie and others have done a lot to manned space exploration.   I'd even say they played a prominent role.

This should make us think, though.  Had there not been such a huge SF fiction literature and cinematography about space, people would not give a crap about it, as they would see space for what it is:   an almost perfect vacuum, extremely hostile to any life form, where it is very difficult to go and where there is pretty much nothing to do.

Manned space exploration enthusiasm is basically delusional.

What about all the potentially habitable exo planets we are discovering?

That's like saying aeroplanes are delusional, computers are delusional, the internet is delusional (a person alive 200 years ago would have had no way to conceptualise anything like the internet, or computers, or software, or [insert anything to do with computers here], vaccination is delusional, the telephone is delusional ... I'm pretty sure all this and more was said at some stage.

[grondilu]

What about all the potentially habitable exo planets we are discovering?

If you seriously believe in interstellar travel in any near future, I think it's safe to say you're delusional.

That's like saying aeroplanes are delusional, computers are delusional, the internet is delusional (a person alive 200 years ago would have had no way to conceptualise anything like the internet, or computers, or software, or [insert anything to do with computers here], vaccination is delusional, the telephone is delusional ... I'm pretty sure all this and more was said at some stage.

So the adjective delusional has no meaning, maybe?

If I was telling my family that I plan on building a house and live on the tip of the Everest, on deep oceanic floor or in the middle of Antarctica, everybody would tell me that I'm nuts.

Living on mars is just about as crazy, only much, much more difficult.

[psybits]

What about all the potentially habitable exo planets we are discovering?

If you seriously believe in interstellar travel in any near future, I think it's safe to say you're delusional.

That's like saying aeroplanes are delusional, computers are delusional, the internet is delusional (a person alive 200 years ago would have had no way to conceptualise anything like the internet, or computers, or software, or [insert anything to do with computers here], vaccination is delusional, the telephone is delusional ... I'm pretty sure all this and more was said at some stage.

So the adjective delusional has no meaning, maybe?

If I was telling my family that I plan on building a house and live on the tip of the Everest, on deep oceanic floor or in the middle of Antarctica, everybody would tell me that I'm nuts.

Living on mars is just about as crazy, only much, much more difficult.

If anyone planned any of your examples I'd think it was amazing. The crazy ones change the world - history has shown this repeatedly - that's all I'm going to say!

[grondilu]

Manned space exploration enthusiasm is basically delusional.

OK, when the next dinosaur killer hits, I'll be waving at you from my dome on Ceres.

Then we'll see who has the more hostile living environment.

If mankind is advanced enough to sustain an inhabitable environment on Ceres, I'm pretty sure it won't have much trouble dealing with any large impact on Earth.

[deepceleron]

There are two killer apps that will make extra-planetary colonization economically viable: mining in a place that has no environment to harm, and low-gravity retirement communities for the elderly.

If you have the money to retire to Mars, you will be living in rarefied air.

[JimmiesForBitcoins]

One of the problems I have with the concept of living on mars is the fact that it only has 38% the gravity of earth. How could we manage that without artificial gravity? Even astronauts living on the ISS have all sorts of health problems from just spending a few months up there. In space centrifugal force works, but what about on the planet's surface?

[grondilu]

If anyone planned any of your examples I'd think it was amazing. The crazy ones change the world - history has shown this repeatedly - that's all I'm going to say!

Sometimes they do, but most of the time they don't.  They are just crazy, and you don't remember crazy people who didn't change the world.

Take Franz Reichet, for instance.  This guy thought he could safely jump off the Eiffel tour with just a self-made suit.   He died of course.  Now, some people did jump off the Eiffel tour after him, but it was much more difficult than he thought, as it required a modern parachute and lots of training.

IMHO the death of Franz Reichet is very similar to this mars-one project.  Look at the people on the video who watch him.  They don't try to dissuade him, they just wait for him to jump, and then they watch him die.  Maybe they sincerely believed it could work, maybe they shared a dream.  Some of them might have said:  "Franz Reichet is crazy but it's crazy people like him who change the world!".  If they did, to me it's clear they were all delusional.

It's the same with this mars-one project.   The crew will die there and we are all going to watch them die, in the name of a delusion fueled by science-fiction.

It's sad, if you ask me.

[myrkul]

Manned space exploration enthusiasm is basically delusional.

OK, when the next dinosaur killer hits, I'll be waving at you from my dome on Ceres.

Then we'll see who has the more hostile living environment.

If mankind is advanced enough to sustain an inhabitable environment on Ceres, I'm pretty sure it won't have much trouble dealing with any large impact on Earth.

Right, because a technological base that's smashed to splinters is great at keeping people from dying in an impact-induced glaciation.

[JimmiesForBitcoins]

Right, because a technological base that's smashed to splinters is great at keeping people from dying in an impact-induced glaciation.

Mmmm.... Free snow cones.

Also, I thought humans were great at causing global warming?

[grondilu]

If anyone planned any of your examples I'd think it was amazing. The crazy ones change the world - history has shown this repeatedly - that's all I'm going to say!

Sometimes they do, but most of the time they don't.  They are just crazy, and you don't remember crazy people who didn't change the world.

Take Franz Reichet, for instance.  This guy thought he could safely jump off the Eiffel tour with just a self-made suit.   He died of course.  Now, some people did jump off the Eiffel tour after him, but it was much more difficult than he thought, as it required a modern parachute and lots of training.

IMHO the death of Franz Reichelt is very similar to this mars-one project.  Look at the people on the video who watch him.  They don't try to dissuade him, they just wait for him to jump, and then they watch him die.  Maybe they sincerely believed it could work, maybe they shared a dream.  Some of them might have said:  "Franz Reichelt is crazy but it's crazy people like him who change the world!".  If they did, to me it's clear they were all delusional.

It's the same with this mars-one project.   The crew will die there and we are all going to watch them die, in the name of a delusion fueled by science-fiction.

It's sad, if you ask me.

[grondilu]

Right, because a technological base that's smashed to splinters is great at keeping people from dying in an impact-induced glaciation.

You realize how unlikely it is for the impact to actually occur on the exact location of a technological base, right?

Also, Earth in glaciation time is still paradise when compared to any other place in the Solar system.

[myrkul]

Right, because a technological base that's smashed to splinters is great at keeping people from dying in an impact-induced glaciation.

You realize how unlikely it is for the impact to actually occur on the exact location of a technological base, right?

/sigh. Earth is the exact location of our technological base. Our only such location. An asteroid impact would ruin lines of communication, disrupt trade, smash all civilized society, kill millions of people directly and indirectly, and leave the rest to scrounge for whatever they can get.

[grondilu]

and leave the rest to scrounge for whatever they can get.

And this would certainly be better than whatever you would have on Ceres.

Also as I said, whenever we'll be able to sustain a colony on Ceres, we'll be so advanced that I doubt an impact winter would really kill millions of people.  We would probably find ways to mitigate it, for an Asteroid is much a tougher environment than even an impacted Earth.