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Author Topic: Can Marine Le Pen win?  (Read 4173 times)
bra4our
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February 28, 2017, 08:51:33 AM
 #41

I dont trust opinion polls any longer i think its best to see how the voting goes during the elections. The polls has been wrong, so  very wrong on two big elections last year. Its reputation has been marred in the dirt.
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February 28, 2017, 11:39:18 AM
 #42

I personally think she has a high chance of winning based on the current state of France as it is now, it's a place where many refugees arrived in and have made France a crime ridden area. I'm not saying the refugees caused all of this but it's a good climate for someone like her to go in and win an election.

She is also someone who is well liked by the PEOPLE and hated by the politicians on the other side based on how fierce she is. I think she is real feminist based on the type of way she really fights for womens rights, unlike the bullshit womens march and the whole hating men thing here in the United States.

AHAHAHAHAHAH
xD

Le Pen a feminist? xD
Yeah and I'm Marry Popins!

She's not a feminist. Here whole "feminist position" is against immigration as is her economical speech, her political speech, her educational speech etc...

No matter if she's right or wrong to fight immigration, you can't say she's a feminist. She's against abortion, against family planning and she voted NO against a moral text at the European Parliament that was not a harsh text but a simple one stating that abortion should be a universal right for women.

YEAH! A true feminist indeed.

On her program of 24 pages, the word women appears twice. Feminism at best.

You're really a bright one bud, I've never seen someone who fully believes without an issue that the new wave of feminism today is actual and real feminism. She was going to be forced to wear a headscarf to visit  Lebanon's leader and when this news was discovered she cancelled the meeting as she wasen't going to do this.

You can perceive that in one of two ways, a publicity stunt in order to garner more support from nationalistic French supporters or a way to advocate for womens rights in the Muslim world as they're forced to cover themselves.

You also can't go ahead and say that being against abortion is something that doesn't make her a feminist, that's something that people believe today which is horrid. You have to understand that you're killing a child when you commit an abortion and people don't support such an action, so it would simple to see her be opposed to this on those grounds. I understand women have the right or should have the right to commit this, but wouldn't that constitute as a murder?

Please provide some more sources on some of your claims relating to Le Pen and MAYBE I'll take you a bit more serious on your horrid attitude towards how feminism is today, as this isn't real feminism and is just a war against men / white males / and so on.

CNN Article relating to Le Pen Headscarf - http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/21/europe/marine-le-pen-headscarf-lebanon-grand-mufti/

Yeah abortion is only murder in sub sahara africa and the USA Smiley

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craked5
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February 28, 2017, 09:01:14 PM
 #43

What do you call the native French?
You're a native French when your parents were French? Your grandparents? When you're French since the Revolution?

Native French is similar to native American. We call someone native American, if he is having a certain quantum of Amerindian blood. Same with the term "native French". Anyone with ethnic French blood is native French.
French is not an Ethnic group. That's why I'm asking what do you call a native French.

We say native Americans because it makes sense as they developped on their side of the world in a genetically slightly different way.
But what do you call French native?

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February 28, 2017, 09:07:28 PM
 #44

You also can't go ahead and say that being against abortion is something that doesn't make her a feminist, that's something that people believe today which is horrid. You have to understand that you're killing a child when you commit an abortion and people don't support such an action, so it would simple to see her be opposed to this on those grounds. I understand women have the right or should have the right to commit this, but wouldn't that constitute as a murder?

Please provide some more sources on some of your claims relating to Le Pen and MAYBE I'll take you a bit more serious on your horrid attitude towards how feminism is today, as this isn't real feminism and is just a war against men / white males / and so on.

I can't discuss with someone believing that :/

It's like saying "you're making a genocide everytime you masturbate".
That's a nonsense, if you believe abortion is murder you're just an idiot and you're EXACTLY the reason why feminism is still needed.
Feminism isn't war against men, it's war against men that want to impose their non-logical reasoning and arbitrary values to women.
And that's exactly what you seem to be.


For the sources:
Here is the report FN voted against, indeed voting against measures implemented to reach equal wage seems VERY FEMINIST
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+REPORT+A8-2015-0015+0+DOC+XML+V0//FR

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February 28, 2017, 09:08:56 PM
 #45


Won't happen. And that's a small disappointment for anyone interested in politics.


Anyone interested in politics but without a brain ^.^

Anyone has any rational reason to vote Le Pen?
Cause on the 24 pages of her "program" there isn't much to save...

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February 28, 2017, 10:53:23 PM
 #46

Their party won a few mayor seats, and in all these cities were a lot of polemics.

One of these mayors decided to register and make a file of all dog owners along with the dog DNA.
If a dog poop is found on the street, it will be DNA analyzed and the dog owner will receive a fine.

And so on... Just imagine if they're in charge of the country. Massive files.

It just shows how these people intend to conduct the country. They were never in charge, they don't know how this works.

For these reasons, I don't think they'll win.

LOL dogpile. Indeed, the french revolution has not happened for something like that as an outcome.
There seems to be no hightened demand on fascism or "Frexit" on the rather laissez passer average population.

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February 28, 2017, 10:55:05 PM
 #47

You also can't go ahead and say that being against abortion is something that doesn't make her a feminist, that's something that people believe today which is horrid. You have to understand that you're killing a child when you commit an abortion and people don't support such an action, so it would simple to see her be opposed to this on those grounds. I understand women have the right or should have the right to commit this, but wouldn't that constitute as a murder?

Please provide some more sources on some of your claims relating to Le Pen and MAYBE I'll take you a bit more serious on your horrid attitude towards how feminism is today, as this isn't real feminism and is just a war against men / white males / and so on.

I can't discuss with someone believing that :/

It's like saying "you're making a genocide everytime you masturbate".
That's a nonsense, if you believe abortion is murder you're just an idiot and you're EXACTLY the reason why feminism is still needed.
Feminism isn't war against men, it's war against men that want to impose their non-logical reasoning and arbitrary values to women.
And that's exactly what you seem to be.


For the sources:
Here is the report FN voted against, indeed voting against measures implemented to reach equal wage seems VERY FEMINIST
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+REPORT+A8-2015-0015+0+DOC+XML+V0//FR


Those two things are so highly unrelated that I think it's pretty funny that you attempted to say that they my saying of "abortion is murder" fits the saying "You're making a genocide everytime you masturbate"
I'm going to skip the part about you saying you don't want to debate / discuss with me as you simply went on to speak more into it, so please make sure next time to not contradict yourself. Now going back on topic with all of this, a Sperm cell when it comes out of the Penis is just sperm coming out of the penis, that's not a fully grown baby inside of a women's womb. Sorry, just attempting to debunk your horrible attempt at a claim.

If you don't feel abortion is murder, like you've went ahead and stated, right before I'm about to give birth I could go ahead and stab the baby to death in my stomach and this wouldn't be murder under your same thinking. As I personally don't think that you acknowledge the baby as a human being when it is in the stomach of the mother who is carrying it.

Please go ahead and find me some information on "MEN WHO WANT TO IMPOSE NON-LOGICAL REASONING AND ARBITRARY VALUES TO WOMEN" and don't bring my claim of abortion in, as that's something in which you can't say is without logic and reasoning behind it on my part. I'm a man in the world who doesn't want to allow innocent children to die in the womb and I don't think that's so horrible.

I do agree with abortion occuring for rape victims, other sexual victims and so on but that doesn't seem like the claim you're attempting to battle here so that seems like a waste of time in it.

I also highly doubt you read this report that you linked me too (http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+REPORT+A8-2015-0015+0+DOC+XML+V0//FR) so I went through the liberty of looking at the bottom and looking through the votes and it doesn't seem that Le Pen voted on it and I don't know any of the members of the NF off the top of my head so you may want to get some more data and evidence.

Gosh, wasn't that fun?



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bohr
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February 28, 2017, 11:18:44 PM
 #48

I think she is going to win, her support among the population is growing every day while the opposition is unable to find a way to stop it, and those are the number given to us by the news media which means Le Pen is a lot closer or even above the opposition at the moment.

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February 28, 2017, 11:39:45 PM
 #49

Those two things are so highly unrelated that I think it's pretty funny that you attempted to say that they my saying of "abortion is murder" fits the saying "You're making a genocide everytime you masturbate"
I'm going to skip the part about you saying you don't want to debate / discuss with me as you simply went on to speak more into it, so please make sure next time to not contradict yourself.
That's not a discussion or a debate, it's like 2 people talking about the same blue painting, one seeing it blue and the other seeing it red. There is nothing to discuss as it's a question of one being able to understand the difference between reality and imagination, and the other not being able to do so.

How could I discuss with someone believing that an embryo is a baby? While there is no brain, no neuronal activity, no nerves... Nothing...
And please don't talk about abortion at 8 months, there is no European country where it is legal unless incredible medical problems.
Otherwise abortion is made when the embryo is not bigger than a bean. It has nothing that could qualify it as a living being.

Maybe I was a bit harsh saying you have no reasoning. It's just that your "reasoning" is based on assumptions so false that it doesn't matter how brilliantly you can conduct it.

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February 28, 2017, 11:59:22 PM
 #50

In the US presidential elections, the opinion polls had it very close. According to the polls, Hillary had a lead of only around 2% or 3% during the last week of the elections. But in France it is different. The other candidates are polling around 20 points more than Le Pen in the second round.

We're not on the last week before elections, and the polls at 2 months before were showing spreads like Mrs. Clinton 46%, Mr. Trump 39%.
At Iowa, the spread went from 2.5% at last poll to 10% of actual result or Wisconsin giving on the last polls Mrs. Clinton an 8% advantage being the electoral result of 0.5% on Mr. Trump's favor.
So, yes, polls can't predict much and can fail for a large margin. Being FN way worse than Mr. Trump, I wouldn't be surprised if the error margin was somewhere between 10 to 30 pp.

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March 01, 2017, 02:22:51 AM
 #51

In the US presidential elections, the opinion polls had it very close. According to the polls, Hillary had a lead of only around 2% or 3% during the last week of the elections. But in France it is different. The other candidates are polling around 20 points more than Le Pen in the second round.

We're not on the last week before elections, and the polls at 2 months before were showing spreads like Mrs. Clinton 46%, Mr. Trump 39%.
At Iowa, the spread went from 2.5% at last poll to 10% of actual result or Wisconsin giving on the last polls Mrs. Clinton an 8% advantage being the electoral result of 0.5% on Mr. Trump's favor.
So, yes, polls can't predict much and can fail for a large margin. Being FN way worse than Mr. Trump, I wouldn't be surprised if the error margin was somewhere between 10 to 30 pp.

In the rust belt states such as Wisconsin and Michigan, they got it completely wrong. No one expected Trump to sweep the rust belt (with the exception of Minnesota and Illinois). Can this repeat in France?

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March 01, 2017, 06:28:13 AM
 #52

In the US presidential elections, the opinion polls had it very close. According to the polls, Hillary had a lead of only around 2% or 3% during the last week of the elections. But in France it is different. The other candidates are polling around 20 points more than Le Pen in the second round.

We're not on the last week before elections, and the polls at 2 months before were showing spreads like Mrs. Clinton 46%, Mr. Trump 39%.
At Iowa, the spread went from 2.5% at last poll to 10% of actual result or Wisconsin giving on the last polls Mrs. Clinton an 8% advantage being the electoral result of 0.5% on Mr. Trump's favor.
So, yes, polls can't predict much and can fail for a large margin. Being FN way worse than Mr. Trump, I wouldn't be surprised if the error margin was somewhere between 10 to 30 pp.

In the rust belt states such as Wisconsin and Michigan, they got it completely wrong. No one expected Trump to sweep the rust belt (with the exception of Minnesota and Illinois). Can this repeat in France?

Exactly. If Trump can win, with a decidedly divisive campaign platform, well dammit, Miss Le Pen should do just swimmingly.

But how this augurs for the current state of humanity, is another topic entirely.

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March 01, 2017, 11:40:57 AM
 #53

Those two things are so highly unrelated that I think it's pretty funny that you attempted to say that they my saying of "abortion is murder" fits the saying "You're making a genocide everytime you masturbate"
I'm going to skip the part about you saying you don't want to debate / discuss with me as you simply went on to speak more into it, so please make sure next time to not contradict yourself.
That's not a discussion or a debate, it's like 2 people talking about the same blue painting, one seeing it blue and the other seeing it red. There is nothing to discuss as it's a question of one being able to understand the difference between reality and imagination, and the other not being able to do so.

How could I discuss with someone believing that an embryo is a baby? While there is no brain, no neuronal activity, no nerves... Nothing...
And please don't talk about abortion at 8 months, there is no European country where it is legal unless incredible medical problems.
Otherwise abortion is made when the embryo is not bigger than a bean. It has nothing that could qualify it as a living being.

Maybe I was a bit harsh saying you have no reasoning. It's just that your "reasoning" is based on assumptions so false that it doesn't matter how brilliantly you can conduct it.

I'm just going to leave you with a nice little week by week development chart for growing fetus' so you're able to understand all of this, as It seems that you think that I will only consider a baby an actual human being at 8 months or something along those lines. Also, I'm focusing more on Abortion on the United States even though this is a topic relating to Marine Le Pen in France.

 I may not be fully familiar with the Abortion law in France and other European countries but I'd love to be enlightened by someone like you (an expert on the topic!)

All jokes aside, I'm going to be feel a baby is a ALIVE once it is Around week 8, I hate to put a number on something like this but you seem like the person who is going to pry it out of me. Still, killing a potential human being to the earth at ANY POINT in production is still horrible.

http://www.babycenter.com/fetal-development-week-by-week

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bryant.coleman
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March 01, 2017, 11:48:59 AM
 #54

In the US presidential elections, the opinion polls had it very close. According to the polls, Hillary had a lead of only around 2% or 3% during the last week of the elections. But in France it is different. The other candidates are polling around 20 points more than Le Pen in the second round.

We're not on the last week before elections, and the polls at 2 months before were showing spreads like Mrs. Clinton 46%, Mr. Trump 39%.
At Iowa, the spread went from 2.5% at last poll to 10% of actual result or Wisconsin giving on the last polls Mrs. Clinton an 8% advantage being the electoral result of 0.5% on Mr. Trump's favor.
So, yes, polls can't predict much and can fail for a large margin. Being FN way worse than Mr. Trump, I wouldn't be surprised if the error margin was somewhere between 10 to 30 pp.

In the rust belt states such as Wisconsin and Michigan, they got it completely wrong. No one expected Trump to sweep the rust belt (with the exception of Minnesota and Illinois). Can this repeat in France?

Exactly. If Trump can win, with a decidedly divisive campaign platform, well dammit, Miss Le Pen should do just swimmingly.

But how this augurs for the current state of humanity, is another topic entirely.

Humanity will be perfectly fine, at least in France. For the sake of humanity, the French can't flood their country with unwashed hordes of immigrants from the Middle East and North Africa. France is a small country with a population of just around 60 million. It can't absorb all the 1.2 billion people living in the Sub-Saharan Africa.

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Xester
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March 01, 2017, 12:42:53 PM
 #55

Donald Trump was never supposed to win the US election and even Brexit campaigners were surprised when Britain voted to leave the European Union, so the prospect of National Front candidate Marine Le Pen becoming French president does not seem as unlikely as it once did.

Ibtimes.co.uk : http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/field-podcast-france-poised-bitter-election-battle-can-marine-le-pen-win-1607621

France need a new leader, a new breed of leader that will bring change to the country. Marine Le Pen is that person that can turn the tide of dirty politics in France. But even if she win the election she will have a hard time facing the force of the corrupt government system. If she is strong willed then probably he can restore the order and balance again in the government of France.

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March 01, 2017, 01:21:44 PM
 #56

Those two things are so highly unrelated that I think it's pretty funny that you attempted to say that they my saying of "abortion is murder" fits the saying "You're making a genocide everytime you masturbate"
I'm going to skip the part about you saying you don't want to debate / discuss with me as you simply went on to speak more into it, so please make sure next time to not contradict yourself.
That's not a discussion or a debate, it's like 2 people talking about the same blue painting, one seeing it blue and the other seeing it red. There is nothing to discuss as it's a question of one being able to understand the difference between reality and imagination, and the other not being able to do so.

How could I discuss with someone believing that an embryo is a baby? While there is no brain, no neuronal activity, no nerves... Nothing...
And please don't talk about abortion at 8 months, there is no European country where it is legal unless incredible medical problems.
Otherwise abortion is made when the embryo is not bigger than a bean. It has nothing that could qualify it as a living being.

Maybe I was a bit harsh saying you have no reasoning. It's just that your "reasoning" is based on assumptions so false that it doesn't matter how brilliantly you can conduct it.

I'm just going to leave you with a nice little week by week development chart for growing fetus' so you're able to understand all of this, as It seems that you think that I will only consider a baby an actual human being at 8 months or something along those lines. Also, I'm focusing more on Abortion on the United States even though this is a topic relating to Marine Le Pen in France.

 I may not be fully familiar with the Abortion law in France and other European countries but I'd love to be enlightened by someone like you (an expert on the topic!)
I'm a bit of an expert yeah, at least as much as anyone having sexual relations should be. (not saying you don't, saying that anyone should be aware of such rules in his own country).
Quote

All jokes aside, I'm going to be feel a baby is a ALIVE once it is Around week 8, I hate to put a number on something like this but you seem like the person who is going to pry it out of me.
I perfectly understand how hard it is to put a number on this.
I'm not saying it's obvious or whatever, it's just that you HAVE TO if you want to make a law.

Well you say week 8? In France we decided it was week 12. When the neural path is more or less finished constructed and nerves and muscles start working.
Not so wrong isn't it?
Quote
Still, killing a potential human being to the earth at ANY POINT in production is still horrible.
No.
YOU find that horrible.
I find FAR MORE HORRIBLE to make it mandatory for anyone to have a baby if they didn't want. You're going to talk about contraception? Talk again. No contraception is safe. And you could say that you can use additional contraception means? Well for a very personal example, my wife can't take the pill, it's physically impossible. So it let us one mean of contraception and it is NOT 100% reliable.

So what do you think is worse? Let a child live in a family that is not able to support him and doesn't want him (cause yeah some people don't want children) or just getting rid of a foetus which, even at week 36, still has nothing much in common with a living human being?
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numismatist
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March 01, 2017, 01:39:42 PM
 #57

Today they started shooting at François Hollande supporters at Villognon. But no worries, merely has been the security!

I'm eating my words regarding fascism. Le Pen will win, and we're all boned.

craked5
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March 01, 2017, 01:44:37 PM
 #58

Today they started shooting at François Hollande supporters at Villognon. But no worries, merely has been the security!

I'm eating my words regarding fascism. Le Pen will win, and we're all boned.

"We're not fascist"
Well you preach high security measures, violent law enforcement and strong state power...
You also want to do this without additional intervention of citizens...
What do you call that if that's not fascism?

Challenger2015
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March 01, 2017, 01:52:25 PM
 #59

Donald Trump was never supposed to win the US election and even Brexit campaigners were surprised when Britain voted to leave the European Union, so the prospect of National Front candidate Marine Le Pen becoming French president does not seem as unlikely as it once did.

Ibtimes.co.uk : http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/field-podcast-france-poised-bitter-election-battle-can-marine-le-pen-win-1607621

France need a new leader, a new breed of leader that will bring change to the country. Marine Le Pen is that person that can turn the tide of dirty politics in France. But even if she win the election she will have a hard time facing the force of the corrupt government system. If she is strong willed then probably he can restore the order and balance again in the government of France.
You can hold her some hope if she has soiled in corruption schemes. As President she will work out the money that she gave to Putin, and he is interested in the collapse of the European Union. If the French choose it they will make a big mistake.
GreenBits
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March 01, 2017, 01:52:50 PM
 #60

In the US presidential elections, the opinion polls had it very close. According to the polls, Hillary had a lead of only around 2% or 3% during the last week of the elections. But in France it is different. The other candidates are polling around 20 points more than Le Pen in the second round.

We're not on the last week before elections, and the polls at 2 months before were showing spreads like Mrs. Clinton 46%, Mr. Trump 39%.
At Iowa, the spread went from 2.5% at last poll to 10% of actual result or Wisconsin giving on the last polls Mrs. Clinton an 8% advantage being the electoral result of 0.5% on Mr. Trump's favor.
So, yes, polls can't predict much and can fail for a large margin. Being FN way worse than Mr. Trump, I wouldn't be surprised if the error margin was somewhere between 10 to 30 pp.

In the rust belt states such as Wisconsin and Michigan, they got it completely wrong. No one expected Trump to sweep the rust belt (with the exception of Minnesota and Illinois). Can this repeat in France?

Exactly. If Trump can win, with a decidedly divisive campaign platform, well dammit, Miss Le Pen should do just swimmingly.

But how this augurs for the current state of humanity, is another topic entirely.

Humanity will be perfectly fine, at least in France. For the sake of humanity, the French can't flood their country with unwashed hordes of immigrants from the Middle East and North Africa. France is a small country with a population of just around 60 million. It can't absorb all the 1.2 billion people living in the Sub-Saharan Africa.

LOL, because her whole campaign was only about immigration (I'm being sarcastic). What about her stance on Jewish citizens revoking Israel? What about her plans to greatly increase prison infrastructure and police spending to preserve "law and order"? And why are people so damned afraid of Muslims? Don't they get that the average Muslim has a life, and bills and kids and shit, and doesn't have time to actively plot the demise of non Muslims? The people blowing shit up are fucking nutjobs, it would be akin to if I screamed out " What would Jesus do bitch?! " before committing some horrible crime. That would make me a crazy head. Not Christian.


What's your definition of humanity? If we meant people acting in their own interest at the expense of others, then yes, the current wave of populist fervor sweeping the globe is quite human

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