Could Someone Re-Launch Dash - Fairly ?

[AusKipper]

Hi,

I'm new to crypto-currencies, been doing a bit of research over the last couple of weeks on them, it seems to me that Dash gets a lot of "hate" because of the pre-mine fiasco.

Dash (or its supporters) have stated that its no big deal because its just provided extra incentive for the core development team to improve Dash to improve its value.

Other people disagree with this entirely. I can see both sides.

Anyway, my question really is, Dash says its open source, how much is open source? just the basic block chain or all the additional software etc too?

How difficult would it be for someone (ie, a 3rd party or the current Dash developers) to go "hey guys, I love dash but everyone hates that it wasn't a fair launch, I am going to re-launch it, call it "ECur" for Electronic Currency, in 2 weeks at 3:00pm whatever time and date using the current version of the code with the necessary changes to make it a different currency, and try and develop it"

How possible would that be? Do you think there would be any success?

Before anyone replies my personal position is that Dash doesn't offer enough differentiation from Bitcoin for it to be worth it (its based on the same code) and that same effort could be put into improving Bitcoin and that would be more worth while, and Monero is more private and probably always will be (I think) so people looking for that "feature" of Dash will use that, but I was just wondering what other people though about this?

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[decentralizd]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1262920.0

You are welcome.

[stripykitteh]

Sure you could, don't forget to implement the pre mine into your service ann though.

[qwizzie]

Sure you could, don't forget to implement the pre mine into your service ann though.

There was no premine with Dash. Its funny how many people fell for that troll fud lie.
Maybe you should google premine, to see what it exactly means and why that is not the case with Dash.

Instamine / Fastmine : yes
Premine : No

link : https://dashpay.atlassian.net/wiki/display/OC/Dash+Instamine+Issue+Clarification

To OP : i doubt someone could re-launch Dash when Dash itself is operating so very successfull and its community
has long ago moved passed the whole instamine problem that happened during the first two days (more then 3 years ago)

[badenglishtea]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1262920.0

You are welcome.

So I own a Dash masternode. I hate hate hate that the crypto was instamined. Yes, not premined, but instamined. I even tried to mine upon release but without a Windows wallet, I couldn't get it running until the second week. So my take is wealth distribution on Dash is terrible, and the community whales seem to be pushing to restrict supply at every step of the way. I have even read something that mining is going to require collaterization.

I am almost at the point of offloading my Dash for big profit at current price. I think the instamine is always going to be a cloud over the community.

I am a big fan of PIVX> bought a lot a few months ago, and still holding. Basically Dash with masternode reward structure, but seesaw to POS staking instead of mining. Very fair release. Price keeps rising. Masternode is 10k instead of 1k Dash (and about 1/100 the price). Community is solid (Slack is growing fast). I got a buy and hold here. With incorporation of zerocoin protocol to boost privacy attributes, PIVX is super risky, but we will see.

[cryptohunter]

Sure you could, don't forget to implement the pre mine into your service ann though.

There was no premine with Dash. Its funny how many people fell for that troll fud lie.
Maybe you should google premine, to see what it exactly means and why that is not the case with Dash.

Instamine / Fastmine : yes
Premine : No

link : https://dashpay.atlassian.net/wiki/display/OC/Dash+Instamine+Issue+Clarification

To OP : i doubt someone could re-launch Dash when Dash itself is operating so very successfull and its community
has long ago moved passed the whole instamine problem that happened during the first two days (more then 3 years ago)

qwizzie = known scammer don't listen to his lies and deception.

I would like him to explain to me the difference between a premine and a captive instamine? there is very little difference at all. A captive instamine where the devs gear everything in their advantage possible to take all the early easy coins is almost exactly the same as a premine where it is easy for the devs to take all the early coins because nobody knows it is launched. So really the captive instamine is a way of premining and trying to say it was not a premine. DASH claimed it was a fair pow release like other coins of their time. It was not.

BUT

that is not the end of it.... they magnified their captive instamine (premine) by slashing the availablility of the remaining coins by 75%.

Imagine a 2 day problem 3 years ago if they just took all the coins.... why should you worry now?

what about a 1 second problem 1000 years ago where they took all the coins why would you worry now?

Does not matter when it happened or how long it took to be a scam. IT IS A SCAM COIN.

Get it qwizzie? there are no excuses.

You know what stop excusing your scam, stop spamming your scam and just work away at it and see what happens. Honesty is the only option you have now and perhaps redemption is possible via some means I can not envision.

[bathrobehero]

I has been done numerous times already.

The best is probably PIVX (disclosure, I'm holding lot of it).

[klarki]

Why do you need this ?

[AusKipper]

Why do you need this ?

I dont.

Its a hypothetical that if someone (mainly the current Dash team) re-launched it without this launch issue maybe it could overtake Dash.

Probably not though.

Its just a thought exercise.

[stealth923]

Dash has 4400+ Masternodes and a bucketload of infrastructure behind it....try and replicate that, along with the dev team, vision and innovation! Not going to happen.

[BitcoinNational]

Dash has 4400+ Masternodes and a bucketload of infrastructure behind it....try and replicate that, along with the dev team, vision and innovation! Not going to happen.

LOL, give me 7 million premined coins @ +20$ and I will seed 4400+ nodes.

DASH is premined.  Deal with it at your own risk.

It is an ICO.  For better or worst.

[Spoetnik]

Hi,

I'm new to crypto-currencies, been doing a bit of research over the last couple of weeks on them, it seems to me that Dash gets a lot of "hate" because of the pre-mine fiasco.

Dash (or its supporters) have stated that its no big deal because its just provided extra incentive for the core development team to improve Dash to improve its value.

Other people disagree with this entirely. I can see both sides.

Anyway, my question really is, Dash says its open source, how much is open source? just the basic block chain or all the additional software etc too?

How difficult would it be for someone (ie, a 3rd party or the current Dash developers) to go "hey guys, I love dash but everyone hates that it wasn't a fair launch, I am going to re-launch it, call it "ECur" for Electronic Currency, in 2 weeks at 3:00pm whatever time and date using the current version of the code with the necessary changes to make it a different currency, and try and develop it"

How possible would that be? Do you think there would be any success?

Before anyone replies my personal position is that Dash doesn't offer enough differentiation from Bitcoin for it to be worth it (its based on the same code) and that same effort could be put into improving Bitcoin and that would be more worth while, and Monero is more private and probably always will be (I think) so people looking for that "feature" of Dash will use that, but I was just wondering what other people though about this?

ahhhh there it is  

Dash doesn't offer enough differentiation from Bitcoin ?  

You been here 2 weeks ?  

Premine  

Admit it your a pissed off bag holder that DASH blew past Monero http://coinmarketcap.com/

[dinofelis]

Hi,

I'm new to crypto-currencies, been doing a bit of research over the last couple of weeks on them, it seems to me that Dash gets a lot of "hate" because of the pre-mine fiasco.

Dash (or its supporters) have stated that its no big deal because its just provided extra incentive for the core development team to improve Dash to improve its value.

Other people disagree with this entirely. I can see both sides.

Anyway, my question really is, Dash says its open source, how much is open source? just the basic block chain or all the additional software etc too?

How difficult would it be for someone (ie, a 3rd party or the current Dash developers) to go "hey guys, I love dash but everyone hates that it wasn't a fair launch, I am going to re-launch it, call it "ECur" for Electronic Currency, in 2 weeks at 3:00pm whatever time and date using the current version of the code with the necessary changes to make it a different currency, and try and develop it"

I wouldn't see the purpose.  DASH (when it was still darkcoin) was important back then, because it was one of the first coins to see the fundamental problem of bitcoin which was its failed anonymity, the traceability of coins which propagates partial information on the block chain and kills off the pseudonymity mechanisms for anonymity.  People were setting up tumblers, but these were risky points of trust.  
Darkcoin implemented most probably the best way to tie these tumblers to correct functioning with a kind of smart contract: the masternodes.   The burden that came with that was a partial breaking of the trustlessness, a forced PoS system and the need for a complicated governance system (which has been turned in a lucrative business by the instamine, but here it is not clear what is cause and what is consequence).

So yes, Darkcoin was the best anonymous coin back then: it automated tumblers, and took most of their risk away with the master node smart contract system.

However, this was because Darkcoin simply used the known cryptography of bitcoin, and didn't implement more advanced cryptography that could provide anonymity automatically.  It is "bitcoin's pseudonymity with smart contract mixers", and the whole financial structure of Darkcoin/DASH is built around that needed smart contract for mixers.

Once cryptonote and zerocoin came out as cryptographic schemes, the need for this complicated smart contract system was done with. In other words, DASH has a large historic importance, but is using depreciated technology.  It is what it is, and it can continue living its life, but there's no point in doing this again, when better tech is now out and available, that doesn't need to build a "state and banking structure" with smart contracts in order to get these tumblers work correctly.

DASH went as far as one can go with bitcoin technology on the anonymous side.  But there's better tech known now.

And on the side of building "state and banking" structure with smart contracts, I think there are other "smart contract" type of coins like ethereum which allow you much easier to build even much more crazy things.  So on the "smart contract" side, DASH has nothing to offer that isn't implemented better elsewhere.

Again, DASH is what it is, like bitcoin is what it is.  Nobody in his right mind would want to "launch bitcoin again".  It is the oldest, most primitive crypto tech that is around !  Bitcoin is probably the worst coin on the tech side.  It is what it is.  But if you launch something new, better use more advanced tech.  Same holds for DASH.

[Spoetnik]

That may be dinofelis but Monero would fall into the same category too.
Some people here say other newer coins (i won't name) are better for ANON tech.
BUT !
Their initial launch is far worse.. AKA: The infamous "Genius Tax"  

@dinofelis
You did a great job side stepping the trolling and posting the most pertinent info.
It's highly suspicious this was a Monero wacko trolling Dash with this topic and a puppet account.
But you simply avoided the issue LOL

Those two will be at it till the cows come home.. hahahha

[iamnotback]

+1 @dinofelis. Again and again he is very good at distilling to the generative essence and articulating it.

[AusKipper]

ahhhh there it is  

Dash doesn't offer enough differentiation from Bitcoin ?  

You been here 2 weeks ?  

Premine  

Admit it your a pissed off bag holder that DASH blew past Monero http://coinmarketcap.com/

No, I am new to crypto-currency.

This was my first thread here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1796575.0

I think if you read that it would be somewhat obvious that I am no bag holder. In fact by the end of that thread I was telling iamnotback that Dash has advantages over Monero (marketing) that had caused the price to go higher (iamnotback thinks its because the founders are selling to each other).

Coming from the outside recently, I can tell you there is a LOT more publicity out there in the face of the "general public" for Dash (paid advertising) than there is for Monero (there is none for Monero that I saw).

This was supposed to be my last post in that thread:

Well thankyou everyone for your replies.

I have learned a lot.

I have made the decision that I will go with:

$500 Monero (its the most private coin in the top 10 as far as my understanding goes and I think privacy is an important issue)
$400 Bitcoin and i'll just hope at some point in the future the issues that it has (privacy, transaction speed) are fixed
$100 Dash (Marketing is worth something, and its the only coin I regularly see advertisements for around the place, I know its marketing as a private coin and it isnt really one but I think its mainstream appeal could make it bigger than its fundamentals suggest it should be for a while at least)

So thats that, it will be done soon so no point trying to change my mind now, and I probably wont be back to these forums for a while.

Next time i'm back it will probably be me wanting to dip my toe into mining something, I still like the concept of the storage coins so maybe one of those.

Once again thankyou everyone who replied for your input.

Bye.

So, as you can see, I DO like Monero more, but I do not discount Dash. Note that decision was made AFTER Dash overtook Monero on coinmarketcap.
 
IMHO Marketing counts for a lot in this world, and because of that I give Dash a much better chance than most of the "technical" people around here.

[dinofelis]

That may be dinofelis but Monero would fall into the same category too.
Some people here say other newer coins (i won't name) are better for ANON tech.

There isn't, indeed, any good reason to "relaunch" monero, not more than there is a good reason to relaunch dash or there is a good reason to relaunch bitcoin.

These all have at least historical importance.  If for one or another reason, one doesn't like the way their financial dynamics got started, there's no reason to "do it over", because there is, indeed, better tech around.  That said, *at this moment* I still think that on the anonymous side, monero is one of the best.  It has also fundamental problems which will bring it maybe to an end one day, but *today* I think it is still the best anon option.

I will tell you why: I only know of one better tech for anonymity, and that is ZKproofs, of the kind ZCASH implemented.  But ZCASH made fundamental errors, and this is NOT because the boys that made it are idiots, but rather because the *implementation* of ZK proofs is, as of today, in fact way too heavy to be scalable to a sufficient extend.  This is why they made the anonymous option on ZCASH and derivatives optional, because it is in fact not really usable if you need to process many of them on limited hardware.  This will improve.  But as of today, nobody knows how to make this slick.
Also, good crypto needs some time to mature before one can be reasonably sure that it doesn't contain gaping holes.

All this means that *at the moment* monero still has the best compromise between practical usability (and even on that side, the problems with GUI and light wallets are showing) and good anon tech.

Another issue is PoS.  A premine/instamine is way way worse on a PoS system than on a PoW system, because with the former, the instamine gets amplified, while with the latter, it gets diluted.  And tail emission makes every "wrong" initial distribution even out somewhat more.

This means that in the long run, a PoW coin with tail emission doesn't really care about any "initial unfairness", while a "sound money" coin with PoS can only get worse that way.

With DASH, this poses the extra problem of the potential collusion of masternodes.  I have to say that I don't know how severe this problem is.  But the day that Evan is made "an offer he can't refuse" to hand over all masternodes under his control, directly or indirectly, to TPTB, I don't know how much of DASH's anon remains.

But, as I said, DASH is what it is, and the people wanting to use it, can do so.  Like bitcoin users use bitcoin.  DASH *does* have some nice features over bitcoin (ALL altcoins have nice features over bitcoin, which is one of the worst coins out there).

[AusKipper]

Hi,

I'm new to crypto-currencies, been doing a bit of research over the last couple of weeks on them, it seems to me that Dash gets a lot of "hate" because of the pre-mine fiasco.

Dash (or its supporters) have stated that its no big deal because its just provided extra incentive for the core development team to improve Dash to improve its value.

Other people disagree with this entirely. I can see both sides.

Anyway, my question really is, Dash says its open source, how much is open source? just the basic block chain or all the additional software etc too?

How difficult would it be for someone (ie, a 3rd party or the current Dash developers) to go "hey guys, I love dash but everyone hates that it wasn't a fair launch, I am going to re-launch it, call it "ECur" for Electronic Currency, in 2 weeks at 3:00pm whatever time and date using the current version of the code with the necessary changes to make it a different currency, and try and develop it"

I wouldn't see the purpose.  DASH (when it was still darkcoin) was important back then, because it was one of the first coins to see the fundamental problem of bitcoin which was its failed anonymity, the traceability of coins which propagates partial information on the block chain and kills off the pseudonymity mechanisms for anonymity.  People were setting up tumblers, but these were risky points of trust.  
Darkcoin implemented most probably the best way to tie these tumblers to correct functioning with a kind of smart contract: the masternodes.   The burden that came with that was a partial breaking of the trustlessness, a forced PoS system and the need for a complicated governance system (which has been turned in a lucrative business by the instamine, but here it is not clear what is cause and what is consequence).

So yes, Darkcoin was the best anonymous coin back then: it automated tumblers, and took most of their risk away with the master node smart contract system.

However, this was because Darkcoin simply used the known cryptography of bitcoin, and didn't implement more advanced cryptography that could provide anonymity automatically.  It is "bitcoin's pseudonymity with smart contract mixers", and the whole financial structure of Darkcoin/DASH is built around that needed smart contract for mixers.

Once cryptonote and zerocoin came out as cryptographic schemes, the need for this complicated smart contract system was done with. In other words, DASH has a large historic importance, but is using depreciated technology.  It is what it is, and it can continue living its life, but there's no point in doing this again, when better tech is now out and available, that doesn't need to build a "state and banking structure" with smart contracts in order to get these tumblers work correctly.

DASH went as far as one can go with bitcoin technology on the anonymous side.  But there's better tech known now.

And on the side of building "state and banking" structure with smart contracts, I think there are other "smart contract" type of coins like ethereum which allow you much easier to build even much more crazy things.  So on the "smart contract" side, DASH has nothing to offer that isn't implemented better elsewhere.

Again, DASH is what it is, like bitcoin is what it is.  Nobody in his right mind would want to "launch bitcoin again".  It is the oldest, most primitive crypto tech that is around !  Bitcoin is probably the worst coin on the tech side.  It is what it is.  But if you launch something new, better use more advanced tech.  Same holds for DASH.

Thanks for your detailed reply.

I am not sure that we can say Bitcoin is the "worst" coin on the tech side, I see some altcoins about that I just think have to be doomed to fail (Sia that gives tokens to people who offer storage, and then give more out to people who mine? I dont see that working) but you probably know a lot more than me.

I would love it if you could come and reply to this thread that I created about an "imaginary" coin that uses a proof of storage system https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1805042.0

Everyone is ignoring that thread on me but I think its a really good concept.

This thread here can die now, i'm happy that re-launching Dash COULD be done, but if it was it would fail fast, even with a fair launch.

[AusKipper]

Another issue is PoS.  A premine/instamine is way way worse on a PoS system than on a PoW system, because with the former, the instamine gets amplified, while with the latter, it gets diluted.  And tail emission makes every "wrong" initial distribution even out somewhat more.

This means that in the long run, a PoW coin with tail emission doesn't really care about any "initial unfairness", while a "sound money" coin with PoS can only get worse that way.

With DASH, this poses the extra problem of the potential collusion of masternodes.  I have to say that I don't know how severe this problem is.  But the day that Evan is made "an offer he can't refuse" to hand over all masternodes under his control, directly or indirectly, to TPTB, I don't know how much of DASH's anon remains.

Thats a really good point Dinofelis, I didnt think of that aspect of the premine (being worse in POS than POW)

Maybe 10% into Dash was a mistake.

Still, I believe its the second most visible coin to joe blow, so..., I dont know, we will see I guess.

[dinofelis]

I am not sure that we can say Bitcoin is the "worst" coin on the tech side, I see some altcoins about that I just think have to be doomed to fail (Sia that gives tokens to people who offer storage, and then give more out to people who mine? I dont see that working) but you probably know a lot more than me.

Hahaha yes, it is of course possible to do worse than bitcoin, and some idiots did so indeed