Buying BFL debt. $0.10 per dollar owed.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

<Midnight to 2AM conference call.>

Kano: What's new?
Josh: Busy implementing our interesting solution.
Kano: What we talked about earlier?
Josh: Even Sonny liked it.
Kano: Amen, brother! Amen! How's it going?
Josh: According to plan, bro. They're all talking about it now.
Kano: I see it! What's the latest on my miner?
Josh: You're not going to believe this, but thanks to some cocksucker on BT suggesting some type of grease or vaseline between the chips and the board, we'll now be able to increasing the output.
Kano: You'll met specs?
Josh: Fuck no, but we'll increase nonetheless.
Kano: Gotta go. I think that fuckin' alpaca is tappin' the line again.
Al the Alpaca: This is Jehovah, Luke. Pay no attention to the white van in your driveway.

[Frankie Delaney]

Lets break this down real quick:

1. You want to hedge your bet.
2. You are absolutely positive BFL won't ship.  Ergo, a bet against BFL is a sure thing, according to your claim.
3. You are guaranteed a win of 500 BTC (or whatever amount you care to wager)
4. You don't want to bet because it's the "opposite" of hedging.

Let's break THIS down a little bit

1. you consider orders with your own company a bet
2. you consider a 10% hedge against a 100% order a sure thing
3. again, you're willing to cheat and scam your way to the winning side of a bet
4. you're really bad at math.

So you just tell me how many units you consider legit to satisfy the claim of shipped there champ, we'll go with that.

How about we start with the orders so far which have been bought and paid for in full. That shouldn't be too hard, a company shipping orders that were paid for months ago, should it? Legally an order has to be refunded or shipped within 30 days of full payment, so we can exclude any orders placed since march 20th, so only the orders placed between june 2012, and march 20, 2013. I'll put 350 BTC in escrow up against that, that you won't ship all orders placed within that time period before june 1st, 2013. What do you say?

Yep, I nailed it.  Your claim:

BFL won't ship any product.

Your bet:  BFL won't ship thousands of products before June 1st.  

Which is it Franky?  Will BFL ship a product or not?  Your claim is that BFL won't ship a product, you are unwilling to bet on that, but you ARE willing to bet that BFL won't ship thousands of products before June 1st, 2013.  Why would you need to put such ridiculous constraints on a bet when you believe BFL won't even ship a single product?

Oh... maybe it's because you're a lying piece of shit?  Yeah, thought so...

I'm the lying piece of shit? Point out where i said BFL won't ship any product. I could refute other parts of this post, but the entirety of it is based on the claim that i said "BFL won't ship any product."

You, yourself, have said that you are less than a week away from shipping, and that you have a 300 unit per day capacity, and openly mocked your competitors for not having a 300 unit per day capacity. Ive offered a bet providing 6 weeks.

I've seen pictures of your stack of minirig cases, the fact that your company owns a dymo lableler, and the fact that you feel anything you slap a customers name on you count as shipped, i would be an idiot to count anything less than ACTUAL shipping to customers as "shipping"

The real question now is why you consider shipping thousands of products within 6 weeks out of the question when you have a 300 unit per day capacity, there's nothing wrong with the chips, and the new boards should be in any day now.

[PuertoLibre]

frank, I've changed my mind about you...  I live in Denver only a few hours from bfl.  let me know how I can help you.

Uh oh, this guy has caught on to what Frankie is after....watch out.

Inaba (A BFL employee for those that don't know)

I bet the only reason the BFL employee showed up in this thread is because he needs to put the breaks on your thread before people start either:

A) That their refunds are in anyway at risk when or if they ever need them.

B) The legal spear that might come to bite them in the ass as one (or a handful) of people buy up defunct pre-orders at pennies on the dollar...with BTC. Then file a massively disproportionate legal claim against BFL.

Those that aren't catching on think Frankie is after the refunds from those orders yet fail to see that isn't his winning strategy. As everyone who will eventually go to Frankie is going to have already tried the refund window. With Customer Service at BFL taking many days or weeks to get a response back (at times)...Frankie would only have to wait for it all to fall apart and people to panic.

Then collect a ton of pre-orders for pennies on the dollar, do the legal process and finally collect. How much would he collect? Could be a dollar on dollar amount. Could be alot less than that. Probably more than 10cents on each dollar.

@ Frankie I would ignore Inaba. He is ["probably"] just trying to derail your thread or is probably asking the mods move it or get it deleted/locked.

Your strategy took a few hours to sink in. It truly it is a beneficial strategy to all involved if BFL did go defunct. I suppose it would be better than a customer crying about losing 100%. I suspect though that you would lower your rates based on the level of panic that would be created with a failed BFL.

If I were you, I would ignore Inaba. Hes going to probably try his darndest to derail the thread. Let it stand as an open offer.

[pizza]

Don't worry Frankie, he will reply he's probably busy with some anal three-way, they need to prepare for their next youtube video walk through of the Nuclear Powerplant where they are going to pump out 1000 units a day.

[Frankie Delaney]

Come on, josh. you're obviously still online. how about 350btc, 4200 units by june 1st, 2013. That gives you 4 full weeks of dicking around or whatever you've been doing for the last TEN MONTHS, 14 days of production at the 300 days you claim to be capable of, and shipping. I have an order in the xxxx3800s, i am sure others here have orders before and after me, together we will confirm whether the bet is won or lost.

Refusing this bet is admitting you won't ship at full capacity by june 1st.

[PeZ]

Hmm...betting on 5 units when he has thousands of orders?

[Frankie Delaney]

frank, I've changed my mind about you...  I live in Denver only a few hours from bfl.  let me know how I can help you.

Uh oh, this guy has caught on to what Frankie is after....watch out.

Inaba (A BFL employee for those that don't know)

I bet the only reason the BFL employee showed up in this thread is because he needs to put the breaks on your thread before people start either:

A) That their refunds are in anyway at risk when or if they ever need them.

B) The legal spear that might come to bite them in the ass as one (or a handful) of people buy up defunct pre-orders at pennies on the dollar...with BTC.

Those that aren't catching on think Frankie is after the refunds from those orders yet fail to see that isn't his winning strategy. As everyone who will eventually go to Frankie is going to have already tried the refund window. With Customer Service at BFL taking many days or weeks to get a response back (at times)...Frankie would only have to wait for it all to fall apart and people to panic.

Then collect a ton of order for pennies on the dollar, do the legal process and finally collect. How much would he collect? Could be a dollar on dollar amount. Could be alot less than that. Probably more than 10cents on each dollar.

@ Frankie I would ignore Inaba. He is just trying to derail your thread or is probably asking the mods move it or get it deleted/locked.

Your strategy took a few hours to sink in. It truly it is a beneficial strategy to all involved if BFL did go defunct. I suppose it would be better than a customer crying about losing 100%. I suspect though that you would lower your rates based on the level of panic that would be created with a failed BFL.

If I were you, I would ignore Inaba. Hes going to probably try his darndest to derail the thread. Let it stand as an open offer.

This isn't some cunning get-rich-strategy. I won't be able to collect legal fees out of wage garnishments of company directors. I will, however, be able to collect the full amount of purchased debt, which if purchased cheaply will hopefully *fingers crossed* cover legal fees. I won't be requesting refunds from purchased orders, because that would basically cause a BFL collapse like it did with bASIC, which is in nobody's best interest. As terrible as they are, BFL failing would be bad for bitcoin, but for the most part i have no control over them failing or not. Everything i have seen within the past few weeks suggest it is almost certain, and i am preparing for that.

I'm not trying to make a mint here, i'm trying not to lose my shirt. This felt like a game at $15/btc, but it really doesn't at $120/btc.

[CoinHoarder]

I believe BFL will ship. Albeit 7 months late and way off on their power/speed estimates, but they will ship.

My biggest grievance is that they are liars and continue to lie to their customers that funded their R&D.

Their biggest concern from day 1 has been to keep the preorder money flowing into their bank account.

[pizza]

Hmm...betting on 5 units when he has thousands of orders?

yeah why don't you guys bet me on 5 units!! We'll ship 5 units in a year!! With our new trickle system that Jody invented, it's revolutionary.

[pizza]

I believe BFL will ship. Albeit 7 moths late and way off on their power/speed estimates, but they will ship.

My biggest grievance is that they are liars and continue to lie to their customers that funded their R&D.

Their biggest concern from day 1 has been to keep the preorder money flowing into their bank account.

The problem is: What is your definition of ship? Because technically they shipped a unit to Luke. Will they ship all of the orders full blown, or will they ship a few every month lol.

[Viceroy]

I believe BFL will ship. Albeit 7 months late and way off on their power/speed estimates, but they will ship.

My biggest grievance is that they are liars and continue to lie to their customers that funded their R&D.

Their biggest concern from day 1 has been to keep the preorder money flowing into their bank account.

I would be pissed off if I had spent money preordering a product and the company KNOWINGLY took my money and spent it on google ads.  clearly that is not what the pre orders paid for, nor a fancy office, nor a staff.  we know they are not making the chips, foundries do that and they are not a foundry.  so how can they justify taking preorder money and spending it on anything other than the units they promised to build?  how can you think they are legitimate when they keep pushing back shipping... now almost a year late with nothing but excuses.  where are the finished units?  how can they only have 5?  it makes no sense.  I can make the chip they pretended to make in les than 12 months as a single engineer... why can't a team do the same?

[Frankie Delaney]

Josh has gone offline, as you would expect a scammer would when confronted with facts, but i got 4 posts out of him in a single day. That is his highest number of posts per day since March 26th, 2013. Nearly 1 month ago.

Consider that, then consider my offer. I don't have a busniess card to offer, but please respect once there are 30 more out there that my offer was the first. On all the exchanges the first order in is the first order processed, but there really isn't an exchange for this type of thing, so we really have to rely on respect.

Thank you and goodnight.

[CoinHoarder]

I believe BFL will ship. Albeit 7 moths late and way off on their power/speed estimates, but they will ship.

My biggest grievance is that they are liars and continue to lie to their customers that funded their R&D.

Their biggest concern from day 1 has been to keep the preorder money flowing into their bank account.

The problem is: What is your definition of ship? Because technically they shipped a unit to Luke. Will they ship all of the orders full blown, or will they ship a few every month lol.

No, they did not "technically ship a unit to Luke." That was a BS April fools, smoke and mirrors, get out of losing all the BTC we made on our bet kind of deal.

By shipping I mean shipping their product to every customer that still has a pre-order, I actually believe they will do this.

But, of course they will be slow with shipping and not ship anywhere close to the numbers they were suggesting (400/day)... it's BFL.... It took them like 6 months+ to ship all their FPGA preorders. I'm pretty sure they have more ASIC preorders than they did FPGAs because they've been advertising like crazy since day 1. So... I'd say AT LEAST 6 months for them to make it out of their preorder backlog, probably more like 9 though.

[CoinHoarder]

You guys... don't get me wrong, I've been one of BFL's biggest critics for a long time.

The only difference in between me and you is I think they will ship eventually.

I agree they are liars, crooks, and scumbags. But I think they are liars, crooks, and scumbags that will eventually deliver a product.

[pizza]

I believe BFL will ship. Albeit 7 moths late and way off on their power/speed estimates, but they will ship.

My biggest grievance is that they are liars and continue to lie to their customers that funded their R&D.

Their biggest concern from day 1 has been to keep the preorder money flowing into their bank account.

The problem is: What is your definition of ship? Because technically they shipped a unit to Luke. Will they ship all of the orders full blown, or will they ship a few every month lol.

No, they did not "technically ship a unit to Luke." That was a BS April fools, smoke and mirrors, get our of losing all the BTC we made on our bet kind of deal.

By shipping I mean shipping their product to every customer that still has a pre-order, I actually believe they will do this.

But, of course they will be slow with shipping and not ship anywhere close to the numbers they were suggesting (400/day)... it's BFL.... It took them like 6 months+ to ship all their FPGA preorders. I'm pretty sure they have more ASIC preorders than they did FPGAs because they've been advertising like crazy since day 1. So... I'd say AT LEAST 6 months for them to make it out of their preorder backlog.

Ohh wow that's why they did that, what scumbags. I knew it's not really shipping, thought it was only done to say see we shipped something lol. Dude I don't consider shipping if they will never catch up and will take them a year to process all old and new orders, that's considered a failure. It's like buying an Iphone and getting it a year later. Everyone on here needs to make forum account on BFL and post all this scumbagish information about them.

[Frankie Delaney]

I believe BFL will ship. Albeit 7 moths late and way off on their power/speed estimates, but they will ship.

My biggest grievance is that they are liars and continue to lie to their customers that funded their R&D.

Their biggest concern from day 1 has been to keep the preorder money flowing into their bank account.

The problem is: What is your definition of ship? Because technically they shipped a unit to Luke. Will they ship all of the orders full blown, or will they ship a few every month lol.

No, they did not "technically ship a unit to Luke." That was a BS April fools, smoke and mirrors, get our of losing all the BTC we made on our bet kind of deal.

By shipping I mean shipping their product to every customer that still has a pre-order, I actually believe they will do this.

But, of course they will be slow with shipping and not ship anywhere close to the numbers they were suggesting (400/day)... it's BFL.... It took them like 6 months+ to ship all their FPGA preorders. I'm pretty sure they have more ASIC preorders than they did FPGAs because they've been advertising like crazy since day 1. So... I'd say AT LEAST 6 months for them to make it out of their preorder backlog.

It is stated quite clearly in this thread by Josh Zerlan, COO and spokesman of Butterfly Labs, that shipping "thousands" before june 1st is out of the question, and "shipping" 5 within the next 6 weeks is reasonable.

You guys... don't get me wrong, I've been one of BFL's biggest critics for a long time.

The only difference in between me and you is I think they will ship eventually.

I agree they are liars, crooks, and scumbags. But I think they are liars, crooks, and scumbags that will eventually deliver a product.

Don't get ME wrong, i think it's possible they could ship, but i don't believe that strongly enough to ignore the other possiblity.

We're totally on the same page about them being liars, crooks, and scumbags though.

[Matthew N. Wright]

We're totally on the same page about them being liars, crooks, and scumbags though.

Hell, even I'm on that page lately. It's sad too, because their concept designs were slick (speaking as a non-hardware guy) and it looked like they might actually pull Bitcoin into an era of mass consumer mining.

Instead we're being pulled into an era of mass consumer doubt.

[Viceroy]

great thread.  I think inaba got scared with my post at the top of this page.

[pizza]

We're totally on the same page about them being liars, crooks, and scumbags though.

Hell, even I'm on that page lately. It's sad too, because their designs were slick and it looked like they might actually pull Bitcoin into an era of mass consumer mining.

Instead we're being pulled into an era of mass consumer doubt.

That's what all con artist do, make shit look slick

[pizza]

great thread.  I think inaba got scared with my post at the top of this page.

probably that or giving luke some anal, he has to pay for that hosting somehow. It takes a lot of GPU's to produce 25gh/sec, that's a lot of electricity for BFL to run Lukes miner.