Buying BFL debt. $0.10 per dollar owed.

[Frankie Delaney]

great thread.  I think inaba got scared with my post at the top of this page.

Yeah, thanks for that, it's not like i wanted to win a 350 BTC bet or anything.

Hell, even I'm on that page lately. It's sad too, because their concept designs were slick (speaking as a non-hardware guy) and it looked like they might actually pull Bitcoin into an era of mass consumer mining.

Instead we're being pulled into an era of mass consumer doubt.

Mass consumer mining isn't advantageous to people currently running custom hardware though.

Look at sony, they haven't even shown a picture of the PS4, and i've already got a pre-order on it. I have no doubt they'll deliver. Then again, they haven't called me an idiot or a liar lately.

[Matthew N. Wright]

That's what all con artist do, make shit look slick

Well, it's also what artists do, so that's not in itself any kind of indicator. But I admit that when they were actually producing and shipping (belated) FPGAs that it was easy to get caught up in the excitement. I had enough sense to refund my single back then though, because waiting 4 months for a mining device of any kind is retarded, even now with ASICs. The best investment so far in bitcoin has been holding bitcoin itself afterall.

Look at sony, they haven't even shown a picture of the PS4, and i've already got a pre-order on it. I have no doubt they'll deliver.

I bet they'd get more if there's a PS4 app for mining!

[Viceroy]

Yeah, thanks for that, it's not like i wanted to win a 350 BTC bet or anything.

yea, I'll bet you 500 btc inaba wouldn't have paid anyway.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Yeah, thanks for that, it's not like i wanted to win a 350 BTC bet or anything.

yea, I'll bet you 500 btc inaba wouldn't have paid anyway.

I'll take that bet! (and then back out of it later and disappear for a few months and then realize how stupid a joke it was and then pay it later anyway)


Edit: Aaaaand we've come full circle.

[Frankie Delaney]

That's what all con artist do, make shit look slick

Well, it's also what artists do, so that's not in itself any kind of indicator. But I admit that when they were actually producing and shipping (belated) FPGAs that it was easy to get caught up in the excitement. I had enough sense to refund my single back then though, because waiting 4 months for a mining device of any kind is retarded, even now with ASICs. The best investment so far in bitcoin has been holding bitcoin itself afterall.

Look at sony, they haven't even shown a picture of the PS4, and i've already got a pre-order on it. I have no doubt they'll deliver.

I bet they'd get more if there's a PS4 app for mining!

Hindsight is 20/20. If i hadn't paid 200 bitcoins for my first singles, i wouldn't be afraid of a refund. If they hadn't told me they were a week away from shipping 5 months ago, they wouldn't have gotten another order either. It was a long series of bad decisions that led us here, but this is my way of digging myself out of the hold. I do feel a little for those forced to sell to me, but in the end, everybody hurts a little and justice is served, or everybody hurts a lot, and josh and sonny sit on a beach we paid for, drinking beer we paid for, enjoying women we paid for.

[repentance]

Come on, josh. you're obviously still online. how about 350btc, 4200 units by june 1st, 2013. That gives you 4 full weeks of dicking around or whatever you've been doing for the last TEN MONTHS, 14 days of production at the 300 days you claim to be capable of, and shipping. I have an order in the xxxx3800s, i am sure others here have orders before and after me, together we will confirm whether the bet is won or lost.

Refusing this bet is admitting you won't ship at full capacity by june 1st.

I'll get the popcorn ready.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Hindsight is 20/20...If i hadn't .... It was a long series of bad decisions ... I do feel a little for those forced to ....

So you're allowed to learn from mistakes made in haste and make a profit off of others, but if I make one, lose everything, and pay out the ass in addition to losing everything I had, I'm a scammer for life in your book?

You're a peculiar one, that's for sure.

[Frankie Delaney]

Yeah, thanks for that, it's not like i wanted to win a 350 BTC bet or anything.

yea, I'll bet you 500 btc inaba wouldn't have paid anyway.

I'll take that bet! (and then back out of it later and disappear for a few months and then realize how stupid a joke it was and then pay it later anyway)


Edit: Aaaaand we've come full circle.

And i could hedge against the Matthew N. Wright bet by printing my wallet out and torching it.

I don't think satoshi dice is generous enough for you to reneg again.

Hindsight is 20/20...If i hadn't .... It was a long series of bad decisions ... I do feel a little for those forced to ....

So you're allowed to learn from mistakes made in haste and make a profit off of others, but if I make one, lose everything, and pay out the ass in addition to losing everything I had, I'm a scammer for life in your book?

You're a peculiar one, that's for sure.

Time hasn't yet shown if i'm allowed, my message box is still eerily quiet. I can't say for certain if you're a scammer for life, but i'm certainly not taking your bet .

[Matthew N. Wright]

I can't say for certain if you're a scammer for life, but i'm certainly not taking your bet .

I can work with that. I've actually grown very fond of the idea of "provably fair" things and escrow these days. I am starting to believe there is less and less reason to ever need to trust people for many of the things we do here on the forums. Lending is still a difficult topic, but I think a trust network like Ripple will help with that, since it's not just your reputation that you're selling, but everyone close to you as well (less likely to scam when your neighbor and family suffer from it).

I've also grown to believe that Bitcoin is far from centralized, which should be clear to anyone who paid attention to MtGox, these forums and the recent GIT pushes.

[pizza]

I can't say for certain if you're a scammer for life, but i'm certainly not taking your bet .

I can work with that. I've actually grown very fond of the idea of "provably fair" things and escrow these days. I am starting to believe there is less and less reason to ever need to trust people for many of the things we do here on the forums. Lending is still a difficult topic, but I think a trust network like Ripple will help with that, since it's not just your reputation that you're selling, but everyone close to you as well (less likely to scam when your neighbor and family suffer from it).

I've also grown to believe that Bitcoin is far from centralized, which should be clear to anyone who paid attention to MtGox, these forums and the recent GIT pushes.

Watched an episode of American greed this guy scamed family and Friends that he knew for 30 years

[Matthew N. Wright]

I can't say for certain if you're a scammer for life, but i'm certainly not taking your bet .

I can work with that. I've actually grown very fond of the idea of "provably fair" things and escrow these days. I am starting to believe there is less and less reason to ever need to trust people for many of the things we do here on the forums. Lending is still a difficult topic, but I think a trust network like Ripple will help with that, since it's not just your reputation that you're selling, but everyone close to you as well (less likely to scam when your neighbor and family suffer from it).

I've also grown to believe that Bitcoin is far from centralized, which should be clear to anyone who paid attention to MtGox, these forums and the recent GIT pushes.

Watched an episode of American greed this guy scamed family and Friends that he knew for 30 years

Well, there's always going to be one, just like with guns. The key in Ripple is to spread that out so that the people around them can take the hit in reputation and suffer the financial losses rather than the end-merchant. It sounds shitty, but it's better than family and friends (who actively agreed to intertwine their lives with him) take on his debts (in Ripple network by default) than people who have no idea who he is when he tried to buy something from him. That will change everyone's mind about how much they trust each other. Ripple really will create uncomfortable relationships for some, but for others it's going to draw into focus things that should not have been ignored previously. Very interested to see how it works out.

[cloudhasher]

Either ask for a refund or sell your preorder. What have you got on order with them and when did you order?

[Viceroy]

Either ask for a refund or sell your preorder. What have you got on order with them and when did you order?

Way to read nubtard!

[repentance]

...since it's not just your reputation that you're selling, but everyone close to you as well (less likely to scam when your neighbor and family suffer from it).

You poor innocent boy.  Trendon Shavers is a case in point.

Scammers have no hesitation in ruining the reputations of those close to them.  Hopefully people using Ripple will be careful about who they vouch for (although based on the level of trust people extend to near strangers on social networks, I'm not so sure about that).

[Matthew N. Wright]

Hopefully people using Ripple will be careful about who they vouch for (although based on the level of trust people extend to near strangers on social networks, I'm not so sure about that).

I'm not sure about it either. I've heard mixed theories on what "will happen", but I'd love to see it in action. By that I mean, it's not even really in action yet because it's still centralized and used primarily for speculation of "XRP" prices.

[Inaba]

Lets break this down real quick:

1. You want to hedge your bet.
2. You are absolutely positive BFL won't ship.  Ergo, a bet against BFL is a sure thing, according to your claim.
3. You are guaranteed a win of 500 BTC (or whatever amount you care to wager)
4. You don't want to bet because it's the "opposite" of hedging.

Let's break THIS down a little bit

1. you consider orders with your own company a bet
2. you consider a 10% hedge against a 100% order a sure thing
3. again, you're willing to cheat and scam your way to the winning side of a bet
4. you're really bad at math.

So you just tell me how many units you consider legit to satisfy the claim of shipped there champ, we'll go with that.

How about we start with the orders so far which have been bought and paid for in full. That shouldn't be too hard, a company shipping orders that were paid for months ago, should it? Legally an order has to be refunded or shipped within 30 days of full payment, so we can exclude any orders placed since march 20th, so only the orders placed between june 2012, and march 20, 2013. I'll put 350 BTC in escrow up against that, that you won't ship all orders placed within that time period before june 1st, 2013. What do you say?

Yep, I nailed it.  Your claim:

BFL won't ship any product.

Your bet:  BFL won't ship thousands of products before June 1st.  

Which is it Franky?  Will BFL ship a product or not?  Your claim is that BFL won't ship a product, you are unwilling to bet on that, but you ARE willing to bet that BFL won't ship thousands of products before June 1st, 2013.  Why would you need to put such ridiculous constraints on a bet when you believe BFL won't even ship a single product?

Oh... maybe it's because you're a lying piece of shit?  Yeah, thought so...

I'm the lying piece of shit? Point out where i said BFL won't ship any product. I could refute other parts of this post, but the entirety of it is based on the claim that i said "BFL won't ship any product."

Ok you tool, here you go:

It's obvious with recent propaganda videos and lack of communication that the entire scheme is ready to collapse,

In the interests of absolute transparency. I do not own any potion of butterfly labs I do have orders placed through butterfly labs. I do not believe my orders will be fulfilled.

You believe you'll make your profit from BFL shipping a functional product, i don't believe that is a possiblity.

This thread is my hedge(albeit in a less scumbag way) against butterfly labs's ponzi scheme, an obvious scam.

but i believe for most it will provide something from nothing

The list goes on.  You are a LYING. PIECE. OF. SHIT.

Put up or shut up, dirt bag.  But you won't... because you're a piece of shit.  What's even more pathetic is that you STILL maintain an order with a company you CLAIM is a scam.  The very definition of idiot, yet again.

[Frizz23]

Simply ignore this rude loudmouth. He'll be the fall guy once BFL implodes.

[Frankie Delaney]

Lets break this down real quick:

1. You want to hedge your bet.
2. You are absolutely positive BFL won't ship.  Ergo, a bet against BFL is a sure thing, according to your claim.
3. You are guaranteed a win of 500 BTC (or whatever amount you care to wager)
4. You don't want to bet because it's the "opposite" of hedging.

Let's break THIS down a little bit

1. you consider orders with your own company a bet
2. you consider a 10% hedge against a 100% order a sure thing
3. again, you're willing to cheat and scam your way to the winning side of a bet
4. you're really bad at math.

So you just tell me how many units you consider legit to satisfy the claim of shipped there champ, we'll go with that.

How about we start with the orders so far which have been bought and paid for in full. That shouldn't be too hard, a company shipping orders that were paid for months ago, should it? Legally an order has to be refunded or shipped within 30 days of full payment, so we can exclude any orders placed since march 20th, so only the orders placed between june 2012, and march 20, 2013. I'll put 350 BTC in escrow up against that, that you won't ship all orders placed within that time period before june 1st, 2013. What do you say?

Yep, I nailed it.  Your claim:

BFL won't ship any product.

Your bet:  BFL won't ship thousands of products before June 1st.  

Which is it Franky?  Will BFL ship a product or not?  Your claim is that BFL won't ship a product, you are unwilling to bet on that, but you ARE willing to bet that BFL won't ship thousands of products before June 1st, 2013.  Why would you need to put such ridiculous constraints on a bet when you believe BFL won't even ship a single product?

Oh... maybe it's because you're a lying piece of shit?  Yeah, thought so...

I'm the lying piece of shit? Point out where i said BFL won't ship any product. I could refute other parts of this post, but the entirety of it is based on the claim that i said "BFL won't ship any product."

Ok you tool, here you go:

It's obvious with recent propaganda videos and lack of communication that the entire scheme is ready to collapse,

In the interests of absolute transparency. I do not own any potion of butterfly labs I do have orders placed through butterfly labs. I do not believe my orders will be fulfilled.

You believe you'll make your profit from BFL shipping a functional product, i don't believe that is a possiblity.

This thread is my hedge(albeit in a less scumbag way) against butterfly labs's ponzi scheme, an obvious scam.

but i believe for most it will provide something from nothing

The list goes on.  You are a LYING. PIECE. OF. SHIT.

Put up or shut up, dirt bag.  But you won't... because you're a piece of shit.  What's even more pathetic is that you STILL maintain an order with a company you CLAIM is a scam.  The very definition of idiot, yet again.

Ok, i was wrong, now address the rest of the post.

Also, accept the bet. 350 BTC, 4200 units shipped by june 1st. It's a reasonable goal considering you are within a week of shipping, and can produce 300 units per day.

[Inaba]

Sure, I'll address the rest of the post just as soon as you back up your bullshit with a 500 BTC.  You claim BFL is a scam and that we will never ship a product.  I claim that BFL is not a scam and will ship a product. I am willing to escrow 500 BTC for my claim.  You escrow 500 BTC for your claim and we can move on to whether or not we'll bet on your ludicrous caveats.

My guess is that you'll just Micon-out of the bet, because, just like Bryan Micon, you are a lying piece of shit and you are unwilling to back up your claims...  You and Bryan Micon love to make all these grand pronouncements until someone calls you on it, then you deflect and hem and haw and try to weasel your way out of it. 

So until you back up your statement that "BFL is a ponzi scheme, an obvious scam" and "I do not believe my orders will be fulfilled" we have nothing to discuss other than what an idiot you are.  In fact, how about this... you want to hedge your orders.  I will bet you the full amount you paid in BTC for your orders from BFL that your orders will be fulfilled.  If you'd rather just do the USD value, I will take that bet as well.  You escrow the BTC,  I will escrow the BTC and when your order(s) are fulfilled you lose the bet.  If your orders aren't fulfilled, you win the bet and you get back your BTC (or USD value equivalent if you prefer) - so you're 100% hedged against your losses, since you're positive BFL is a scam and you'll never see your orders.

That's what you're hoping to accomplish with this ridiculous thread, right?  That's what you CLAIM.  If that's the case, then this wager is a no brainer.  Unless... you are lying?

[candoo]

Why should BFL not deliver? There is no reason for them to be scam.

I have no idea about ASICS or chip development, but If you give me 10 million USD via pre orders - I would be able to get a running asic, after a year or two.