Butterfly Labs Jalapeno Unboxing

[shmadz]

It seems to keep their account active they are "sending" people money rather than clicking on the refund button.


This came to my knowledge after reading this guys account:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/1606-bfl-fraud-i-can-not-get-refund-5.html

what came to my knowledge after reading that guy's account was the response from BFL_StevenM:

"The 45-day default limit on PayPal refunds does not mean that we can't just click "Send Money". "

Clearly stating that they are willing, and able, to refund money above and beyond the 45 day limit set by pay-pal.

[1715406242]

1715406242

[1715406242]

1715406242

[1715406242]

1715406242

[1715406242]

1715406242

[rograz]

Josh is what I always imagined a Blizzard community manager to be if their bosses one day said "today you can post whatever the fuck you want on the forums"

The level of stupid on these forums follows about the same curve as your average gaming forum.

[PuertoLibre]

It is pretty sneaky. Though they would probably not want anyone to know that their customers might be able to "double tap" them for a refund.

Consider that a customer using Paypal would want an actual refund of a transaction. So they use that workaround to "send" the customer money as a ?"gift"? for what they are owed. The original transaction still remains with that valid refund button. So if that customer still demands the transaction be refunded and open a dispute....they may very well get to "double tap" the refund.

So you you have spent months calling BFL a scam and now you are encouraging people to commit fraud? Really taking the moral high ground here I see!

A small tip, when you are trying throw shit at others make sure to not stand in your own shit pile, your shoes tend to get messy that way.

Rograz,

You seem to be ignorant.

Paypal does not allow anyone to offer a refund "outside" of Paypal services.

BFL cannot offer an alternative means of compensation. If paid by Paypal, they cannot offer BTC, Wire Transfers, etc.

There is a good reason why Paypal account have metrics. The Paypal system is supposed to catch abnormal surges of money or a spike of refunds and alert them. Working around the refund process to transfer huge quantities of refunded money under the nose of Paypal is against Paypal Policy. This is "fraud" and "abuse" of the Paypal system.

[Inaba]

Josh is what I always imagined a Blizzard community manager to be if their bosses one day said "today you can post whatever the fuck you want on the forums"

What you might find even more frightening is the the fact that I restrain myself a great deal when posting on Bitcointalk.

[shmadz]

Josh is what I always imagined a Blizzard community manager to be if their bosses one day said "today you can post whatever the fuck you want on the forums"

What you might find even more frightening is the the fact that I try, and fail to, restrain myself a great deal when posting on Bitcointalk.

ftfy

[PuertoLibre]

It seems to keep their account active they are "sending" people money rather than clicking on the refund button.


This came to my knowledge after reading this guys account:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/1606-bfl-fraud-i-can-not-get-refund-5.html

what came to my knowledge after reading that guy's account was the response from BFL_StevenM:

"The 45-day default limit on PayPal refunds does not mean that we can't just click "Send Money". "

Clearly stating that they are willing, and able, to refund money above and beyond the 45 day limit set by pay-pal.

I don't think you understand the situation:

Read carefully:

"The 45-day default limit on PayPal refunds does not mean that we can't just click "Send Money". This option costs us a tiny fee, but nothing we can't handle. Our PayPal refund period is longer though. Spec was told that PayPal will not allow anyone to send money to the country which is registered on Spec's PayPal account. A bankwire was attempted on 2013-04-05, has not been confirmed by Spec's bank. BFL_Jody will have to check the wire logs and email Spec again."

Last I checked the refund button disappears after 60 days. The 45 day limit is (last I checked) for escalating the issue to a claim. The two are different.

In either case, I'll call them up right now and ask.

[Inaba]

Josh is what I always imagined a Blizzard community manager to be if their bosses one day said "today you can post whatever the fuck you want on the forums"

What you might find even more frightening is the the fact that I try, and fail to, restrain myself a great deal when posting on Bitcointalk.

ftfy

Nope, you failed at fixing it, sorry.  I meant what I said.  Unlike many people here, I'm capable of communicating my thoughts and meanings fairly accurately.

[PuertoLibre]

It is pretty sneaky. Though they would probably not want anyone to know that their customers might be able to "double tap" them for a refund.

Consider that a customer using Paypal would want an actual refund of a transaction. So they use that workaround to "send" the customer money as a ?"gift"? for what they are owed. The original transaction still remains with that valid refund button. So if that customer still demands the transaction be refunded and open a dispute....they may very well get to "double tap" the refund.

So you you have spent months calling BFL a scam and now you are encouraging people to commit fraud? Really taking the moral high ground here I see!

A small tip, when you are trying throw shit at others make sure to not stand in your own shit pile, your shoes tend to get messy that way.

Haha, do you expect anything less from Puerto Libre?  He's lied repeatedly for months, why not throw some fraud into the mix?  He's right up his alley, given his lifestyle.

Can you feel the epic wave of back peddling by the likes of Yajaira D Guevara and the rest of the clown crew as they try to claim they never said BFL was a scam or that BFL would never ship or that BFL never had ASICs etc... but they ACTUALLY meant something entirely different.

Want to play?

Josh[ua] Ryan Zerlan?

[smoothie]

It is pretty sneaky. Though they would probably not want anyone to know that their customers might be able to "double tap" them for a refund.

Consider that a customer using Paypal would want an actual refund of a transaction. So they use that workaround to "send" the customer money as a ?"gift"? for what they are owed. The original transaction still remains with that valid refund button. So if that customer still demands the transaction be refunded and open a dispute....they may very well get to "double tap" the refund.

So you you have spent months calling BFL a scam and now you are encouraging people to commit fraud? Really taking the moral high ground here I see!

A small tip, when you are trying throw shit at others make sure to not stand in your own shit pile, your shoes tend to get messy that way.

Haha, do you expect anything less from Puerto Libre?  He's lied repeatedly for months, why not throw some fraud into the mix?  He's right up his alley, given his lifestyle.

Can you feel the epic wave of back peddling by the likes of Yajaira D Guevara and the rest of the clown crew as they try to claim they never said BFL was a scam or that BFL would never ship or that BFL never had ASICs etc... but they ACTUALLY meant something entirely different.

So who lied in oct? Nov? Dec? Jan? Feb? Mar?

Months of lying from you mouth has been much more epic. You have more to account for than puerto. Stop deflecting lol

[rograz]

There is a good reason why Paypal account have metrics. The Paypal system is supposed to catch abnormal surges of money or a spike of refunds and alert them. Working around the refund process to transfer huge quantities of refunded money under the nose of Paypal is against Paypal Policy. This is "fraud" and "abuse" of the Paypal system.

There is a difference between them possibly breaking paypal's terms/rules and encouraging people to commit outright fraud. One gets you thrown out of paypal and one gets you thrown into jail, I'll leave it to you to sort out which one is which

[shmadz]

Josh is what I always imagined a Blizzard community manager to be if their bosses one day said "today you can post whatever the fuck you want on the forums"

What you might find even more frightening is the the fact that I try, and fail to, restrain myself a great deal when posting on Bitcointalk.

ftfy

Nope, you failed at fixing it, sorry.  I meant what I said.  Unlike many people here, I'm capable of communicating my thoughts and meanings fairly accurately.

I'm sorry as well, Josh. If your history of posts is evidence of restraint, I am truly fearful of what you might say were you "unrestrained"...

regardless, this is your day, that does indeed look like a working device, and I don't understand what you think to gain by trying to defend your supposed success?

[Joshster]

Man, I want one of them pretty bad. Moving soon as well so will hopefully have more of my own space in my room to set up something nice. Yes I still live at home, I am 19 so space isn't what I have a lot of at the moment.  

[rograz]

So who lied in oct? Nov? Dec? Jan? Feb? Mar?

Months of lying from you mouth has been much more epic. You have more to account for than puerto. Stop deflecting lol

If I had a penny for every delivery date and scheduled release in the tech world that has been moved/scrapped I would have, well I guess a lot of pennies. Doesn't make all those companies liars. BFL's biggest mistake was sharing their timelines and estimates before they had a solid information, their lack of experience in the field surely didn't help either.

[PuertoLibre]

There is a good reason why Paypal account have metrics. The Paypal system is supposed to catch abnormal surges of money or a spike of refunds and alert them. Working around the refund process to transfer huge quantities of refunded money under the nose of Paypal is against Paypal Policy. This is "fraud" and "abuse" of the Paypal system.

There is a difference between them possibly breaking paypal's terms/rules and encouraging people to commit outright fraud. One get's you thrown out of paypal and one gets you thrown into jail, I'll leave it to you to sort out which one is which

Rograz, you can't possibly be serious...

If you potentially break/game the system then you are opening large loopholes. The refund process is simple and straightforward for a reason.

P.S. I don't encourage anyone to "double tap". It's just "the risk" you run if you refund someone through an outside system (or use an alternative within that said system). People are assholes when it comes to refunds. There is also no way for Paypal to verify that a refund has occurred if the customer lies about it. The people behind Paypal are pretty dumb about alot of things.

[John Self]

Man, I want one of them pretty bad. Moving soon as well so will hopefully have more of my own space in my room to set up something nice. Yes I still live at home, I am 19 so space isn't what I have a lot of at the moment.  

They look good!
(I wouldn't order one though because I think BFL have tens of thousands of orders to fill.)

Time for me to find a new hobby because there will be less trolling opportunities here.

Time for BFL to donate to charity, say sorry to customers for missing all targets, and donate 1000BTC to a good cause:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content/123-bfl-offers-1000-btc-charity-if-they-miss-their-power-targets-comments4.html

[minternj]

I wonder how many other customers got their refund back as "a gift" rather than a standard (and proper) Paypal refund?

Who cares. Money tied to a homing pigeon would do. You spent months "warning" people because you are some guy that can spot scams from a mile away. Its obvious what you agenda is, so please drop that pretense of being a noble guy defending newbies from scammers. We are mostly educated people here with secondary degrees and skilled jobs and can understand the risks we take. Don't do us any favors with your high post counts.

[Inaba]

So who lied in oct? Nov? Dec? Jan? Feb? Mar?

Months of lying from you mouth has been much more epic. You have more to account for than puerto. Stop deflecting lol

If I had a penny for every delivery date and scheduled release in the tech world that has been moved/scrapped I would have, well I guess a lot of pennies. Doesn't make all those companies liars. BFL's biggest mistake was sharing their timelines and estimates before they had a solid information, their lack of experience in the field surely didn't help either.

Indeed, you can be sure it won't be happening again if I have anything to say about it.  The ship dates were announced before I came on board with BFL and going forward, unless I am explicitly overridden, we will not be making any shipping date commitments.  It will be Valve time from here on out if I have my way.

[Minor Miner]

So who lied in oct? Nov? Dec? Jan? Feb? Mar?

Months of lying from you mouth has been much more epic. You have more to account for than puerto. Stop deflecting lol

If I had a penny for every delivery date and scheduled release in the tech world that has been moved/scrapped I would have, well I guess a lot of pennies. Doesn't make all those companies liars. BFL's biggest mistake was sharing their timelines and estimates before they had a solid information, their lack of experience in the field surely didn't help either.

Indeed, you can be sure it won't be happening again if I have anything to say about it.  The ship dates were announced before I came on board with BFL and going forward, unless I am explicitly overridden, we will not be making any shipping date commitments.  It will be Valve time from here on out if I have my way

rograz;
shouldn't you be back at BFL helping box the 400 jallies that should ship tomorrow?
Josh;
I know you have a lot of posts and probably cannot remember them all (especially the ones you have deleted) but it was YOU, Josh and Inaba that kept saying you were shipping next week.   It was also you who said that you had sent the device LAST in for FCC testing for approval and would be shipping first week of December.   It was not someone else.   It was Josh Zerlan.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

So who lied in oct? Nov? Dec? Jan? Feb? Mar?

Months of lying from you mouth has been much more epic. You have more to account for than puerto. Stop deflecting lol

If I had a penny for every delivery date and scheduled release in the tech world that has been moved/scrapped I would have, well I guess a lot of pennies. Doesn't make all those companies liars. BFL's biggest mistake was sharing their timelines and estimates before they had a solid information, their lack of experience in the field surely didn't help either.

Indeed, you can be sure it won't be happening again if I have anything to say about it.  The ship dates were announced before I came on board with BFL and going forward, unless I am explicitly overridden, we will not be making any shipping date commitments.  It will be Valve time from here on out if I have my way.

I was wondering where to put this:

[rograz]

It will be Valve time from here on out if I have my way.

Id much more prefer the Blizzard approach of  "when it's done it's done".
Valve time is like a crackling madman who sometimes does something and then says he will do whatever he just did in a few weeks time. Other times it will be "tomorrow" and then he disappears for 8 months.