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Author Topic: Why are people so eager to pay tax?  (Read 13267 times)
RenegadeMind
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April 21, 2013, 10:46:40 AM
 #1

Isn't that a part of the attraction of bitcoin? You can AVOID tax?

And as for "realized gains", why not just sell your bitcoins offline to some person willing to show up at a coffee shop and pay cash?

All these threads about "how do I pay tax" sound like a cacophonous symphony of masochists screaming "Rape me! No, rape me first!"

Paperwork is painful enough. Why add to the misery?

Or at a minimum, why not just only sell back an amount equivalent to your initial investment and keep the BTC? The next time you take a holiday, or step out of the country, you can probably cash in some of your BTC and stay under the radar and avoid more paperwork. 


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tutkarz
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April 21, 2013, 10:57:15 AM
 #2

this is exactly my point of view. maybe people are brainwashed and scared that governments can come to them and say BU!

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April 21, 2013, 11:16:22 AM
 #3

this is exactly my point of view. maybe people are brainwashed and scared that governments can come to them and say BU!

Fixed  Grin


P.S. personally I'd add stupid too.

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ammo88
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April 21, 2013, 11:18:05 AM
 #4

For me it's more or less cause of fear, I guess. Here in Sweden the ones that gets really REALLY serious sentences in courts are usually the ppl prosecuted for tax evasion and tax related frauds, that kinda stuff. Crime involving violence, robbery, also murder you get away pretty easily.. For example a guy in my town got prosecuted recently for murder, they were able to prove he handled the corpse at some point but were not able to prove that he murdered the guy. So the guy got out and the murderer is still on free foot...fucking bullshit.

Anyhow, I'm not yet paying any tax for Bitcoin cause I've not yet cashed out. But when/if I do I will think more closely about wether or not to pay tax on it. But since the government is spending the tax money on complete bullshit things I'll probably go for the latter.  Angry
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April 21, 2013, 11:33:05 AM
 #5

there is no tax or regulations yet! think "embryonic currency"

some people are saying they have made a profit from selling coin and so they paid the appropriate tax as income

what they obviously don't realize is that there is no regulatory/legal requirement to do so as yet



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April 21, 2013, 11:37:13 AM
 #6

So someone who acknowledges that their taxes pay for roads, schools, the fire and police departments, hospitals, just to name several, and hence feels that freeloading by avoiding taxes is a dick move, is "brainwashed" or "stupid".

And as for the "you don't have to" argument because governments don't know what bitcoin is yet - it's a thing you got at price X, and you sold at price Y.  So at a minimum, if you convert your profits (Y-X) to fiat you have some kind of tax bill.  The other side - spending bitcoins bought (or mined) at X for something at Y (Y > X) - is something that governments will have to decide how to classify, but don't think that just because they haven't issued a ruling yet means your profits are free.

Try this on for size - if you don't pay you fair share of taxes then you are a freeloader, and I hope your house burns down, or you die in the street after being hit by a car, or some other fate that is deserving of someone who's willing to take the benefits of living in a society but isn't willing to contribute to the financial upkeep thereof.

If you don't want to pay taxes, move to a country that has no (or minimal) taxes.  There are plenty around.


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April 21, 2013, 11:38:14 AM
 #7

Isn't that a part of the attraction of bitcoin? You can AVOID tax?

And as for "realized gains", why not just sell your bitcoins offline to some person willing to show up at a coffee shop and pay cash?

All these threads about "how do I pay tax" sound like a cacophonous symphony of masochists screaming "Rape me! No, rape me first!"

Paperwork is painful enough. Why add to the misery?

Or at a minimum, why not just only sell back an amount equivalent to your initial investment and keep the BTC? The next time you take a holiday, or step out of the country, you can probably cash in some of your BTC and stay under the radar and avoid more paperwork. 
becuase they realise that personal monetary gain does not always maximize their wealth.

i want to pay taxes, because i think its best for the society(and in turn me) to have "free" education.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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April 21, 2013, 11:40:09 AM
 #8

Considering bitcoin has now been deemed a currency by fincen, wouldnt thay mean a) mining bitcoin will be treated as income and b) buying/selling would be capitals gains. The main issue i believe should be redefining the statement by fincen in regards to user/exchanger so that the miners would not require a money transmitter license to sell.
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April 21, 2013, 11:46:44 AM
 #9

RenegadeMind, noone is "eager" to pay tax. But some of us to choose to obey the laws of the country we live in. The forum has plenty of people whose moral code appears to be "it is okay to break the law if I'm unlikely to get caught".

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April 21, 2013, 11:49:04 AM
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So someone who acknowledges that their taxes pay for roads, schools, the fire and police departments, hospitals, just to name several, and hence feels that freeloading by avoiding taxes is a dick move, is "brainwashed" or "stupid".

And as for the "you don't have to" argument because governments don't know what bitcoin is yet - it's a thing you got at price X, and you sold at price Y.  So at a minimum, if you convert your profits (Y-X) to fiat you have some kind of tax bill.  The other side - spending bitcoins bought (or mined) at X for something at Y (Y > X) - is something that governments will have to decide how to classify, but don't think that just because they haven't issued a ruling yet means your profits are free.

Try this on for size - if you don't pay you fair share of taxes then you are a freeloader, and I hope your house burns down, or you die in the street after being hit by a car, or some other fate that is deserving of someone who's willing to take the benefits of living in a society but isn't willing to contribute to the financial upkeep thereof.

If you don't want to pay taxes, move to a country that has no (or minimal) taxes.  There are plenty around.



no one is avoiding paying taxes, bitcoin is a global currency its called a totally new concept

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April 21, 2013, 11:52:38 AM
 #11

no one is avoiding paying taxes, bitcoin is a global currency its called a totally new concept
that does not matter in tax laws... if i have a capital gain from bitcoin, i would have to pay taxes. it does not matter if im exchanging them back into fiat: i still had a gain.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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April 21, 2013, 11:53:23 AM
 #12

If I had solo mined 100.000 coins in 2010 and kept them in my offline wallet until last week where I bumped into a Billionaire in the street who out of the blue asked me about Bitcoin, and bought the lot @266, then maybe I would consider burring the suitcase of money in my back yard and not tell anybody!

However, I would put the whole Bitcoin idea at risk by just suggesting on different fora that Bitcoin suitable for tax evasion, which it is not, if you sit down for a second and think open source money and the complete transparency of transactions.

We want Bitcoin to go mainstream? So it is good that FinCen is working on merging the traceability of Bitcoin with the traceability of ordinary money?

Suggesting Bitcoin is a tax heaven is making it too easy for the opposition!

So un taxed Bitcoin millionaire, when you speed down a pot holed road in your Ferrari, do you curse the lousy road worker that isn't very carefull about his lousy job, or do you have a deep sense of guilt by knowing that he is the guy you have robbed of a better future for his children?

Disagreeing with tax laws are fine, breaking them is a crime on the whole of society.

You bastards!!!!!


 
 
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Rodyland
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April 21, 2013, 11:56:09 AM
 #13

no one is avoiding paying taxes, bitcoin is a global currency its called a totally new concept
that does not matter in tax laws... if i have a capital gain from bitcoin, i would have to pay taxes. it does not matter if im exchanging them back into fiat: i still had a gain.

This.  Profiting from bitcoin whilst living in the USA would be no different to profiting from trading Euro/JPY.  You're making a profit and you need to pay taxes.  The "oh it's global" and "oh it's brand new" is self-serving self-justification that is rooted in nothing but wishful thinking.

Now, you could mount an argument that unrealised bitcoin gains aren't taxable until said gains are realised - either by sale or by exchange for goods/services.  But I have no doubt that once you sell bitcoins for fiat or trade bitcoins for a good/service, you are liable for tax on those gains.

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April 21, 2013, 12:11:28 PM
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this is exactly my point of view. maybe people are brainwashed and scared that governments can come to them and say BU!


BOOOO !!!!!  lol

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April 21, 2013, 12:13:42 PM
 #15

no one is avoiding paying taxes, bitcoin is a global currency its called a totally new concept
that does not matter in tax laws... if i have a capital gain from bitcoin, i would have to pay taxes. it does not matter if im exchanging them back into fiat: i still had a gain.

This.  Profiting from bitcoin whilst living in the USA would be no different to profiting from trading Euro/JPY.  


GBP/JPY is in a bubble stage after that old lady - ex prime minister death  .... just saying Cheesy

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April 21, 2013, 12:14:33 PM
 #16

no one is avoiding paying taxes, bitcoin is a global currency its called a totally new concept
that does not matter in tax laws... if i have a capital gain from bitcoin, i would have to pay taxes. it does not matter if im exchanging them back into fiat: i still had a gain.

sure which part then

http://www.ato.gov.au/corporate/pathway.aspx?pc=001/001/038

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April 21, 2013, 12:20:02 PM
 #17

no one is avoiding paying taxes, bitcoin is a global currency its called a totally new concept
that does not matter in tax laws... if i have a capital gain from bitcoin, i would have to pay taxes. it does not matter if im exchanging them back into fiat: i still had a gain.

if its claimed as capital gains then it can be claimed as capital losses with the similar tax deductions, 

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April 21, 2013, 12:21:46 PM
 #18

no one is avoiding paying taxes, bitcoin is a global currency its called a totally new concept
that does not matter in tax laws... if i have a capital gain from bitcoin, i would have to pay taxes. it does not matter if im exchanging them back into fiat: i still had a gain.

if its claimed as capital gains then it can be claimed as capital losses with the similar tax deductions, 
yup. but you don't have capital losses(unless you are stupid and bought at 266).

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April 21, 2013, 12:23:06 PM
 #19

no one is avoiding paying taxes, bitcoin is a global currency its called a totally new concept
that does not matter in tax laws... if i have a capital gain from bitcoin, i would have to pay taxes. it does not matter if im exchanging them back into fiat: i still had a gain.

sure which part then

http://www.ato.gov.au/corporate/pathway.aspx?pc=001/001/038

I'm pretty sure the "type" of gain from bitcoin is still to be decided.  I think it would be hard to argue that unrealised gains from held bitcoins are taxable.  By that same logic, unrealised gains from the Monet I have hanging in my loungeroom (I wish!!) are taxable income every year.

But to say that it's not at all taxable is just plain ignorant - but I acknowledge there is a difference between taxable and able-to-be-taxed.  Cheesy

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April 21, 2013, 12:27:18 PM
 #20

just seems like keyboard taxmen got know idea of what they are talking about, just trying to get the gullible who have made money to pay taxes

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