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Author Topic: Why are people so eager to pay tax?  (Read 13270 times)
Severian
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April 21, 2013, 07:28:35 PM
 #81

we created and maintained this road, and you are now abusing it.

"We" is you and I: society. We built the roads. Society precedes government. Government is a scam designed to make you think you need them, as with any abusive relationship.

I don't expect perfect roads from society but I do expect a little civility. Perhaps you could start by learning some.
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kokjo
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April 21, 2013, 07:33:24 PM
 #82

we created and maintained this road, and you are now abusing it.

"We" is you and I: society. We built the roads. Society precedes government. Government is a scam designed to make you think you need them, as with any abusive relationship.

I don't expect perfect roads from society but I do expect a little civility. Perhaps you could start by learning some.
take all the sweet stuff, and leave all the sour?

roads was made of mud where i live now, if it had not been for the government. before a democratic government was created in Denmark, there was only roads and streets in the big cities.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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April 21, 2013, 07:36:07 PM
 #83

roads was made of mud where i live now, if it had not been for the government. before a democratic government was created in Denmark, there was only roads and streets in the big cities.

Government may have been the tool used to facilitate the roads, but credit for the road building goes to society, not government.
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April 21, 2013, 07:36:58 PM
 #84

People defending taxes dont know that most of the money is either ending up in wrong hands (corruption) or wasted on bullshit wars, bullshit interest rates and bullshit departments (Department of Homeland Security et al.)

It is a huge myth that tax money benefits schools, roads, police and hospital. Increase taxes and you will see no increase in the quality of public services, just more corruption and more spending on bullshit.
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April 21, 2013, 07:38:11 PM
 #85

"Wealth redistribution" is just another way of saying "confiscation". Robbery is robbery, no matter if a person or a State is doing it.
you entered an agreement with the government when you where born, just as you did to your family.

LOL. You really believe this shit??? Shocked

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kokjo
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April 21, 2013, 07:38:57 PM
 #86

roads was made of mud where i live now, if it had not been for the government. before a democratic government was created in Denmark, there was only roads and streets in the big cities.
Government may have been the tool used to facilitate the roads, but credit for the road building goes to society, not government.
you are wrong. public roads in Denmark are funded by the danish government.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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April 21, 2013, 07:39:56 PM
 #87

"Wealth redistribution" is just another way of saying "confiscation". Robbery is robbery, no matter if a person or a State is doing it.
you entered an agreement with the government when you where born, just as you did to your family.
LOL. You really believe this shit??? Shocked
LOL, you really believe otherwise??? Shocked

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
Severian
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April 21, 2013, 07:40:14 PM
 #88

you are wrong. public roads in Denmark are funded by the danish government.

And who funds the Danish government?
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April 21, 2013, 07:42:42 PM
 #89

you are wrong. public roads in Denmark are funded by the danish government.

And who funds the Danish government?
people who pay TAXES!

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
Severian
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April 21, 2013, 07:48:27 PM
 #90

people who pay TAXES!

That's called "society". Government should be our employee, not our employer.

If you're happy with your government, then do as you see fit. But quit casting aspersions on informed dissenters that aren't happy with our own governments and are doing as we see fit. I'd take you more seriously if your argument had nothing to do with me and had more to do with your own ideas.
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April 21, 2013, 07:52:53 PM
 #91

Government should be our employee, not our employer.
correct, and i would like my government to take taxes of my payments.



who creates wars then?

also the people? or is it just an evil government creation? 

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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April 21, 2013, 07:56:15 PM
 #92

inheritance of wealth does not go well with your people are born equal. you can only have one of the options.

That is a gross distortion.

Born equal has nothing to do with family, gender, health, wealth or anything other than civil rights.  In other words, there is no nobility or other political privilege or punishment by right of birth.

If anything, being born poor is now currently breaking the "born equal" promise because the state provides more for those at the expense of those whose families pay their own way.
Severian
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April 21, 2013, 07:56:29 PM
 #93

who creates wars then?

Bankers. All wars are banker wars.
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April 21, 2013, 07:57:19 PM
 #94


you entered an agreement with the government when you where born, just as you did to your family.

You're mistaking "government" and "society". This is an error in logic that is causing an accumulation of errors in your other reasoning. One of those errors is the mistaken idea that we entered into a "contract" with a force that has no care for consent or reason.

A little Thomas Paine might set you straight:

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Some writers have so confounded society with government, as to leave little or no distinction between them; whereas they are not only different, but have different origins. Society is produced by our wants, and government by our wickedness; the former promotes our happiness positively by uniting our affections, the latter negatively by restraining our vices. The one encourages intercourse, the other creates distinctions. The first is a patron, the last a punisher.

Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil in its worst state an intolerable one; for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries by a government, which we might expect in a country without government, our calamities is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer!

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this agreement allows you to take advantage of free education, and other public services, and the government to take taxes.

I'd rather die in the gutter than take one penny from the State for my food, shelter, clothing and education. I make my own way, thanks.

And this you say at a network made by the US department of defence, on a computer only made possible due to public research?

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kokjo
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April 21, 2013, 07:59:16 PM
 #95

inheritance of wealth does not go well with your people are born equal. you can only have one of the options.

That is a gross distortion.

Born equal has nothing to do with family, gender, health, wealth or anything other than civil rights.  In other words, there is no nobility or other political privilege or punishment by right of birth.

If anything, being born poor is now currently breaking the "born equal" promise because the state provides more for those at the expense of those whose families pay their own way.

define "Born equal" then, and don't just put a reference to civil rights.

who creates wars then?
Bankers. All wars are banker wars.
does not banks pay for wars?

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
agaumoney
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April 21, 2013, 07:59:59 PM
 #96

i disagree with this... the government is not despotic, when it tries to redistribute wealth.

If you want to steal from me, have the guts to do it yourself instead of hiding behind skirts of government.

Redistribution of wealth is 100% the province of despots.  Only the idiotic would think that a gov't capable of redistributing wealth will continue to do so in their favor.
Severian
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April 21, 2013, 08:01:31 PM
 #97

And this you say at a network made by the US department of defence, on a computer only made possible due to public research?

I bought the computer with money I worked for. Society paid for the academics and DARPA researchers to develop the tool. Government is the dumb beast we use to get from point A to point B. The internet is proof that human ingenuity can't be stopped by government as the internet will be its downfall. Wink

You missed what I said: I won't take money from the State. Where did I say I won't contribute?
kokjo
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April 21, 2013, 08:02:08 PM
 #98

i disagree with this... the government is not despotic, when it tries to redistribute wealth.
If you want to steal from me, have the guts to do it yourself instead of hiding behind skirts of government.

Redistribution of wealth is 100% the province of despots.  Only the idiotic would think that a gov't capable of redistributing wealth will continue to do so in their favor.
the governement behave in the society's favor.

im currently paid by the state to take my education. and when im done with my education i will happily pay taxes, and i will not claim that the government steals from me.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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April 21, 2013, 08:03:53 PM
 #99

Forgetting the global society for one second and just focussing on our individual societies, because we are all from different countries, with different systems of government and different taxation systems.

This is how I see it, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong:

Government is a construct of a society seeking to organise itself to be more efficient.

Taxation is a construct of government put in place to centralise the funds required to effectively provide services and infrastructure to that society.

Now, no one likes paying taxes, I lose 22% of my salary each month to National Insurance and Income Tax, pay x amount a month for Council Tax, Road Tax, 20% Value Added Tax on anything deemed a luxury and don't even get me started on getting taxed at the pump twice, with Fuel Duty added on top. The coup de grace is having my savings taxed too.

But if we do away with taxation, then who is going to pay for the infrastructure and services?

You expect the world to run on altruism?

I am man enough to admit that freed from the shackles of taxation, you would have a hard time getting me to spend any money on anything except that which benefited me and mine. If everyone did the same, the world we lived in would probably be a worse place to live than it currently is.

Taxation is not perfect, but you can't disagree that as a premise it works.
agaumoney
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April 21, 2013, 08:05:48 PM
 #100

So, Joe decides to go on a long deserved holiday to Lovelyland, and purchases $2,000 Lovely dollars for $2,000 of his country's fiat dollar.

He returns from his Lovelyland holiday and goes to sell his remaining Lovely dollars, $1,000 as things were cheap and he was frugal. Much to Joe's suprise, oil, gas, diamonds, and the cure for cancer were all discovered in Lovelyland while he was away, and the Lovely dollar rose nicely. Joe end up recieving $2,000 of his country's fiat dollars for his $1,000 Lovely dollars.

1) Does Joe have to pay capital gains tax?
2) How is bitcoin different? (For those that purchase and are not professional traders.)

Not cap gains tax, regular income tax.

In the U.S. Joe has to consider all incidental gains on currency exchange over $200 to be regular income which is taxed at far higher rate than capital gains.  There is only a short paragraph devoted to this topic.

Only trading forex gains and losses are subject to cap gains rates and then only if you opt for that treatment in advance of your trade.  But taking that option may also cost you...  There is a whole section devoted to this topic.
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