Who else is tired of this shit?

[kelsey]

as a trader i like the mess and the drama 

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[kelsey]

Given the Chinese now know they have us by the balls, they are always manipulating the LTC markets as well. Using all this to pump up and crash the LTC price at will and taking more BTC from all of us.

the LTC manipulators aren't trying to take BTC off you, to many LTC traders (including myself), LTC is BTC (without the premine).

and its not about chinese, just because the largest exchanges/farms are from china doesn't mean its the chinese (i trade 99% of my trades on chinese exchanges because thats where the liquidity is, and many of the chinese mining farms are back by US/european investors).

in anycase the current rise in LTC wasn't the chinese the chinese exchanges are lagging in that massively (because the big chinese exchanges only fiat can be withdrawn your LTC/BTC is currently locked).

in summary LTC/BTC is more crossboarder then you realise, when simply crediting any one national group with any control.

[kelsey]

But could it be less noisy if the whales weren't able to threaten much harm? I have some ideas about making whales impotent.

lets be honest without the whales (and manipulation) Bitcoin would be only priced on its true worth and that would be approaching zero 

[iamnotback]

But could it be less noisy if the whales weren't able to threaten much harm? I have some ideas about making whales impotent.

lets be honest without the whales (and manipulation) Bitcoin would be only priced on its true worth and that would be approaching zero  

Lol. So true. I had quoted your first comment already here.

[taxmanmt5]

But could it be less noisy if the whales weren't able to threaten much harm? I have some ideas about making whales impotent.

lets be honest without the whales (and manipulation) Bitcoin would be only priced on its true worth and that would be approaching zero 

I dont think this is an honest view that bitcoin will be zero without whales and manipulation. I think Bitcoin will still be much worth and people will still be using bitcoin. The only thing that wont happen is the sudden increase or decrease in prices of bitcoins.

[iamnotback]

Given the Chinese now know they have us by the balls, they are always manipulating the LTC markets as well. Using all this to pump up and crash the LTC price at will and taking more BTC from all of us.

the LTC manipulators aren't trying to take BTC off you

How do you justify the blatant BS linked above (your quote of me) wherein the Chinaman deliberately says some BS to crash the LTC price?

It's insane to see how that chink is blatantly manipulating the market and doing insider trading with an obvious short coupled with that tweet. Then "hey, just joking, segwit continues". And now this?

https://twitter.com/f2pool_wangchun/status/850070006830292992

This guy is a troll playing with people's money. He can crash the market one tweet at a time and keep making millions from the shorts. This is a dangerous game to play when you have to show up IRL and meet investors that get fucked by your tweets.

[kelsey]

But could it be less noisy if the whales weren't able to threaten much harm? I have some ideas about making whales impotent.

lets be honest without the whales (and manipulation) Bitcoin would be only priced on its true worth and that would be approaching zero 

I dont think this is an honest view that bitcoin will be zero without whales and manipulation. I think Bitcoin will still be much worth and people will still be using bitcoin. The only thing that wont happen is the sudden increase or decrease in prices of bitcoins.

lol where you around in the early gox era  

[iamnotback]

Readers a reminder to read the OP before voting.

[kelsey]

How do you justify the blatant BS linked above (your quote of me) wherein the Chinaman deliberately says some BS to crash the LTC price?

thats one tool in a pool of many. seen Americans (famous Bitcoin is a failed experiment line), Russians, Japanese all do the same bitcoin/crypto over its history.

[aoluain]

Im a newbie when it comes to crypto, im still learning and there is a lot.
Which i dont understand, and probably never will. There are things
Which are just too technical for me.

But this shit which has recently been uncovered im tired of already.

I doesnt surprise me one bit, it happens every day.

I thought cryptocurrencies was very simple and straight forward.
Obviously not, there are people ready to take advantage, cheat, con and manipulate,
Busines as usual and one of the ugly human traits - it sickens me.

Would love to see the goal posts moved and the rug pulled fro under them

[iamnotback]

How do you justify the blatant BS linked above (your quote of me) wherein the Chinaman deliberately says some BS to crash the LTC price?

thats one tool in a pool of many. seen Americans (famous Bitcoin is a failed experiment line), Russians, Japanese all do the same bitcoin/crypto over its history.

That is why we need an altcoin wherein the hodlers aren't speculating. They are using the tokens for something in which they have no desire to speculate with them.

With that wide base of transaction use which doesn't care about the exchange value, the manipulators will not be able to have much impact.

As I said, I have some ideas about how to make whales impotent. Traders won't like it, but long-term HODLers are going to love it, because it is deflationary, which is even better than Bitcoin (i.e. the coin supply will shrink forever never reaching 0).

[kelsey]

How do you justify the blatant BS linked above (your quote of me) wherein the Chinaman deliberately says some BS to crash the LTC price?

thats one tool in a pool of many. seen Americans (famous Bitcoin is a failed experiment line), Russians, Japanese all do the same bitcoin/crypto over its history.

That is why we need an altcoin wherein the hodlers aren't speculating. They are using the tokens for something in which they have no desire to speculate with them.

With that wide base of transaction use which doesn't care about the exchange value, the manipulators will not be able to have much impact.

As I said, I have some ideas about how to make whales impotent. Traders won't like it, but long-term HODLers are going to love it, because it is deflationary, which is even better than Bitcoin (i.e. the coin supply will shrink forever never reaching 0).

you know traders or even greed isn't always a negative, there can be win win economic scenario's where greed and speculation is a positive driving force.

though in crypto atm i would agree many traders/manipulators are behaving like chickens without heads and going for personal profit without any thought to the entire ecosystem. however that often goes with the territory, tis just in the wild west phase atm.

[Pursuer]

as a trader i like the mess and the drama 

haha, that is true!
the drama has always been good as long as you know which side you should stay on price-wise. for example a couple of hours ago F2Pool made some comments on twitter about having doubts about signaling SegWit, blah blah and that lead to me making about 15% profit on litecoin that I bought in the dip and that only took 6-7 hours.

[iamnotback]

How do you justify the blatant BS linked above (your quote of me) wherein the Chinaman deliberately says some BS to crash the LTC price?

thats one tool in a pool of many. seen Americans (famous Bitcoin is a failed experiment line), Russians, Japanese all do the same bitcoin/crypto over its history.

That is why we need an altcoin wherein the hodlers aren't speculating. They are using the tokens for something in which they have no desire to speculate with them.

With that wide base of transaction use which doesn't care about the exchange value, the manipulators will not be able to have much impact.

As I said, I have some ideas about how to make whales impotent. Traders won't like it, but long-term HODLers are going to love it, because it is deflationary, which is even better than Bitcoin (i.e. the coin supply will shrink forever never reaching 0).

you know traders or even greed isn't always a negative, there can be win win economic scenario's where greed and speculation is a positive driving force.

though in crypto atm i would agree many traders/manipulators are behaving like chickens without heads and going for personal profit without any thought to the entire ecosystem. however that often goes with the territory, tis just in the wild west phase atm.

Right now there is no significant rational use case for blockchains except greater fooling, gambling games, and "illegal activities" (there is a tiny bit of use as money transfer), thus the greed and selfish interest is not yet driving more productive use cases. And I agree because we are still in the Wild West phase. No one has yet produced an application of blockchains that has a broad use case other than greater fooling and Satoshi DICE offshoots.

"greater fooling" means speculation and making gains by bringing in more greater fools (otherwise it becomes a zero-sum game and most people would be losing and leave).

[btbrae]

I know it's all a big friggin' mess but you shouldn't take your life as every day is a new chapter. LTC will dive but it will have it's day in the sun again, in time. It does not need to be the end for you, I feel for you OP there are many of us in the same boat. Litecoin will come again. Charlie Lee will set you free. He will set us all free and we will rejoice. Have hope.

[mining1]

However, if this goes on, bitcoin will really become an electronic asset/store of value, and no longer a efficient payment channel.

Is that a problem? Litecoin and others can take over the role of payment transactions. Bitcoin becomes the reserve currency.

It can't be just a reserve currency/store of value, most investors would flee bitcoin in that case. Whales will not be able to keep the value high without greater fools.

[iamnotback]

However, if this goes on, bitcoin will really become an electronic asset/store of value, and no longer a efficient payment channel.

Is that a problem? Litecoin and others can take over the role of payment transactions. Bitcoin becomes the reserve currency.

It can't be just a reserve currency/store of value, most investors would flee bitcoin in that case. Whales will not be able to keep the value high without greater fools.

Those who aggregate speculation and finance of other activities (e.g. exchanges, future crypto banks) will choose to hold their reserves in BTC for as long as it is the highest liquidity, least volatile, most reliable, less experimental blockchain.

Those who want to turn Bitcoin into an experimental blockchain with block size increases, on chain settlement of off chain are messing with what gives Bitcoin its value.

For example, on chain settlement of off chain can have huge spikes in settlement transaction load thus causing volatility.

I am not trying to play sides by stating this. I am stating this as a programmer with 37 years of experience and I have become reasonably knowledgeable about blockchain technology and economics in my 4 years since I entered the Bitcoin ecosystem.

[Invincible]

I am not trying to play sides by stating this. I am stating this as a programmer with 37 years of experience and I have become reasonably knowledgeable about blockchain technology and economics in my 4 years since I entered the Bitcoin ecosystem.

I thought programmers are very busy people they don't have time to post loads of crap all day.

[buwaytress]

lets be honest without the whales (and manipulation) Bitcoin would be only priced on its true worth and that would be approaching zero 

I partially agree but was that what really caused Bitcoin to be valued so highly? Back when it started out, there were only whales, remember? And that's when Bitcoin was virtually zero cents. I think the "manipulation" is highly natural and only possible when there weren't only whales. In any case, they're like anything else: can't live with/without =)

[IadixDev]

Hello

Well not to sound harsh but ..

Yeah I think it's obvious by now what the world of crypto is coming at.

It's not going to help third world country to fight corruption in the financial world, or help micro economy.  It's just another toy millionere use to grab more millions from more people with gray area financial tactic in this unregulated world.

Crypto today are probably the most corrupt financial network. It's all about who you know rather than what you know. All about loyalty, not integrity.

If you know anything about real economics, you can say today 90% of it's value is a speculative bubble.

Can always pretend there is an hidden hand following market logic, but it's not the case, neither it's about investment in innovation, or for structueal development, it's all about clique making shady move for their own personal profits.

You can always try to understand the stake holders and mining farms and shakers and movers to put your stash on the right coin at the right moment, but it looks like italian football bet, french underground boxing bet.

All rigged up and you cant win big if you dont know who has stash involved. And it's not about knowing sport performance anymore. No more than it's about if coin is better than another.

For most people bitcoin is just a "get richer quick on the internet" scheme.

No need to beat around the bush for ever.

And im not even saying this to imply then what you do about it other than being angry about it on the Internet, or Go make your own

But need to face what crypto are today. It's not about technical innivation , or fixing financial world, developping micro economy, or any of this.