CryptoKingdom Uncensored

[generalizethis]

I've dealt with loaf a lot over the months and Speed or iluvbitcoins would be a better choice by far--smooth would also, but I know he won't volunteer due to the time commitment. Though Sirjacket is still better choice in abstention.

We should have a CEO as I think there are too many agendas and one person should represent the game and be responsible for its vision.

Maybe we have an election, I am not a candidate, so I could help with that.

A CEO is a good idea too, the Board sets goals & objectives, and the CEO implements strategies & tactics to achieve them.

ATM I think it should be admin based as they are the ones who have to implement the work load that is being decided by the board. Now when there is an actual Dev fund to pay the admin, then that would be the time to have votes (as flaky half baked ideas would just be cash cows for admin and not a reason to quit--who knows, Sysky may even come back then).

[Karl Hungus]

I've dealt with loaf a lot over the months and Speed or iluvbitcoins would be a better choice by far--smooth would also, but I know he won't volunteer due to the time commitment. Though Sirjacket is still better choice in abstention.

We should have a CEO as I think there are too many agendas and one person should represent the game and be responsible for its vision.

Maybe we have an election, I am not a candidate, so I could help with that.

A CEO is a good idea too, the Board sets goals & objectives, and the CEO implements strategies & tactics to achieve them.

ATM I think it should be admin based as they are the ones who have to implement the work load that is being decided by the board. Now when there is an actual Dev fund to pay the admin, then that would be the time to have votes (as flaky half baked ideas would just be cash cows for admin and not a reason to quit).

This makes sense, an election might bog things down now, lose what momentum we have achieved. I think there is a general consensus now on what direction we need to move in, just the details to sort out, which can probably be nutted out by admins working together.

I do believe when it comes to unpaid work, those who step up & volunteer their time should have the greatest say.

[CrazyLoaf]

HMC posted this on IRC and told me to post it:

Can we please get off risto's junk when it comes to the economy--NPCC that was paid for with XMR was the key to the economy and risto himself said that wasn't a viable option. He said he had a solution that would be implemented with Clans, but low and behold that was just more BS. As far as I can tell PJ was left with a list of ideas with no plan for implementation--not suprising that risto found a way to exit before it was discovered.

It's true that risto was a great salesmen and most of us fell for the new item tax more than a few times, but he's hardly an economic genius when he can't even figure out that the game couldn't keep pace with XMR's any-second-now rise, that Markka was a pipe dream based on the people's faith in him (or lack thereof shown by its reception), or that running a fractional reserve was a piss poor way to estimate marketcap.

And if he was such a great game designer, why don't we have graphics or a functioning battle system with the millions he claims he spent out of his own money? We got sucked into his imagined world and it was fun until you realized it wasn't sustainable with the players we had and he wasn't getting new players to join. I'm just sick of the idea that he can save us if he returns--it's irrational and not based on facts--it's based on his ability to sell himself to a few highrollers and pay for admin (mind you with little regard to actual development) to live in his fantasy of being a great game developer. It's only a great game if we fix his mistakes and use the one thing that's right about the game--its market.

Even if it is used only for deposhares with a repository for gaining a trust score, it's more than most exchanges can offer due to there being no regulation since it's a video game economy (oh wait, maybe risto was a genius game developer and the reason I won't use his assets to pay Town is that this is a test run for how admin treat the next depoholder that tries to run away and  the trust system is the ability to hold M/CK from leaving the exch--game--but who knows what I'm talking about half the time?).

[Vigens]

Crypto Kingdom Kings coin !!!


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2113463.0

[generalizethis]

PJ said CKM deposit option should be done in 2-3 days.

I wish Mooo had put an SGC bet on this.

[iluvbitcoins]

Gringotts has processed its first withdrawal!
17 XMR has been paid out to Vigens!
Or almost 1400$!

I am currently getting someone on Fiverr to make a promotional video for Crypto Kingdom once the token is ready to launch, I'll have a couple of images made to have something simmilar to the ZrCoin thread.
I'll try to write the script for the video&images tommorow, perhaps the day later.

I have an exam on the 1st and the 5th so I'll be tight with time but I'll try to take some time for CK .

edit: another option is to appoint a proxy for Risto's accounts, IMO his 50% is too large to sit idle, someone needs to activate these accounts, either Risto or someone else

Yes, we were discussing on IRC newcorp which is part of his assets, though it wasn't immediately clear to me whether he is a majority shareholder or not. My suggestion was for the town to appoint a paid trustee to manage newcorp on behalf of the shareholders (probably with the choice of trustee approved by other shareholders). Appointing one to manage his assets more broadly is also likely appropriate.

If nothing else, protecting the value those accounts with reasonable administration will maximize probability and magnitude of the recovery to his victims.

I completely support this suggestion.
I believe there already was an option for inactive accounts to be managed by someone else previously?

As for the 10% to Town--I was fine with that when I added it to the Bounty (as per smooth's brilliant suggestion), before Loaf and iluvbitcoins shot it down--nice to see they get it now.

We can raise funding through voluntary donations, there is no need for a forced deevaluation of ones assets.

There's always an option to ICO the CKM in Ristos ownership and use the funds for development and debt repayment.
He owns 860 billion Markka.
We could auction 360 billion for game development.
Once the game grows, I believe his assets should be enough to cover his debts since he owns half of the whole game.
But I still believe the funds should be gathered by voluntary donations instead and his CKM untouched (so far) because currently all of his assets kind of belong to the creditors.

Maybe an introduction of a Patriot item with a high tax and a collecting purpose would help with the Town gathering some funds?

There is a "board" but aside from HMC and Mooo, I do not see SirJacket on the game anymore at all. HMC retains decent M ownership (roughly 100bil), as does Mooo (~25 bil), but SirJacket barely has 1bil M. Voting should be based on the level of CKO ownership, or people should at least be able to assign proxies (which can be done in these tokens) to vote for them. Of course, if we give Town 60% of the game, voting may be a moot point

Ideally board membership should be based on a combination of economic stake in the Game and activity level, if SirJacket needs to be replaced for either of these reasons then now is the time to do it, while important decisions are being made.

I would prefer 5 board members to 3, but either way, we need a full compliment asap.

If SirJacket is not available anymore, then I would nominate Loaf to be his replacement.

If a 5 member board was more desirable, then I would also nominate smooth & iluvbitcoins.

Of all the things that need doing, this might be the most important to get right, a well functioning Board.

I would be honored to accept this position if it was offered to me, however it must be noted I am in the same situation as smooth described in #720
I haven't been active ingame for a very long time, however I'm very happy to develop anything related to the game I can do.

[smooth]

We can raise funding through voluntary donations, there is no need for a forced deevaluation of ones assets.

This is delusional. The so-called assets have near-zero value at this point, especially considering lack of liquidity if trying to sell them.

A proposal to raise capital and put new effort to (re)build the game into something of significant value is 'devaluing' nothing. I take no position on the 10% specifically, but the idea that a made up database currency in a nearly-defunct game can't be diluted as part of a viable plan is taking things too far. The game owners can consider it IMO. Maybe it still gets rejected, which is fine.

[iluvbitcoins]

We can raise funding through voluntary donations, there is no need for a forced deevaluation of ones assets.

This is delusional. The so-called assets have near-zero value at this point, especially considering lack of liquidity if trying to sell them.

A proposal to raise capital and put new effort to (re)build the game into something of significant value is 'devaluing' nothing. I take no position on the 10% specifically, but the idea that a made up database currency in a nearly-defunct game can't be diluted as part of a viable plan is taking things too far. The game owners can consider it IMO. Maybe it still gets rejected, which is fine.

What precisely does the game need to do with this 10%?
It's just my personal principle, ofcourse if others think this is better for the game, I'll be more than happy to go along.

[smooth]

We can raise funding through voluntary donations, there is no need for a forced deevaluation of ones assets.

This is delusional. The so-called assets have near-zero value at this point, especially considering lack of liquidity if trying to sell them.

A proposal to raise capital and put new effort to (re)build the game into something of significant value is 'devaluing' nothing. I take no position on the 10% specifically, but the idea that a made up database currency in a nearly-defunct game can't be diluted as part of a viable plan is taking things too far. The game owners can consider it IMO. Maybe it still gets rejected, which is fine.

What precisely does the game need to do with this 10%?

That should certainly be in any such proposal.

It's just my personal principle, ofcourse if others think this is better for the game, I'll be more than happy to go along.

I understand your principle, but you could also consider this to be a complete reboot of the game where existing holders get some percentage of the new supply as an airdrop (pretty generous!). Given that the game is essentially dead in the water, that's not an unreasonable approach at all.

Again, I'm neutral on the idea, but at this point those of us who want to see something positive come out of this game should be open to a variety of proposals, and evaluate available credible proposals against each other not against some fantasy where nothing of substance changes in the game and suddenly it is worth $100 million.

[CrazyLoaf]

We can raise funding through voluntary donations, there is no need for a forced deevaluation of ones assets.

This is delusional. The so-called assets have near-zero value at this point, especially considering lack of liquidity if trying to sell them.

A proposal to raise capital and put new effort to (re)build the game into something of significant value is 'devaluing' nothing. I take no position on the 10% specifically, but the idea that a made up database currency in a nearly-defunct game can't be diluted as part of a viable plan is taking things too far. The game owners can consider it IMO. Maybe it still gets rejected, which is fine.

Agreed. We need to raise game funds for a complete relaunch of the game. This is the best option current game players who either lost money in Zech's depo operations and/or have not even come close to ROI on their initial XMR purchases. And the goal is to not just move funds from one pocket to another, but to create a sustainable game ecosystem in line with what players originally conceived as possible from those design threads.

On the topic of the 10% to Town, that is what HMC asked for and honestly that sounds like a reasonable request, especially if Town operations can lead, possibly, to dividend payments to CKO holders.

In regards to the dilution potential, if 50% rather than 60% is easier to stomach, then that could be fine. The only reason I went with 60% is that it nicely coincided with increasing the M supply to 10 trillion.

On iluvbitcoin's suggestion of takeover of Zech-related accounts (such as newcorp, bank, littleflock, soul, etc.), this is also a possibility and could be done without dilution, but as the majority seems to be learning towards to dilution idea, I am fine with either one or a combination.

[generalizethis]

So far the only viable plan was hinted at by speed, though I'm waiting to hear more specifics and see the outline. TBH his figure of $20,000 to get things started seems low, but that may be due to risto's "give it away, give it away now!" policy of uber expensive hype without substance.

As far as the corp accounts of Zech--that's a matter for the shareholders to determine. Accounts like coinshop, which are game function accounts, are waiting for someone who is qualified to apply.

[CrazyLoaf]

As far as the corp accounts of Zech--that's a matter for the shareholders to determine. Accounts like coinshop, which are game function accounts, are waiting for someone who is qualified to apply.

Let's use NewCorp as an example since it owns so much land, which will probably still remain in the event of a game relaunch. Here is a current top 5 ownership:

1. ZECHARIAH : 15,000
2. SOUL : 5,000
3. LOAF : 4,100
4. NEWCORP : 4,099
5. LITTLEFLOCK : 3,800

So right there, aside from me, you have almost 70% ownership in the top 5 that is in Zech-controlled accounts. Many other corporations, such as bank, are in a similar situation.

In regards to our M/CKM token, do we want to try to have 8 digits past the decimal place? 8 digits past the decimal seems pretty universal among exchanges and I couldn't find one that worked with more or less digits. Even for something like XMR, which has more, it looks like the sites truncate them.

If we went with 8 satoshi units (what the hell are these called anyone in a more generic sense?), 1 quadrillion in-game M/CKM is only 10 mil "full" units with 8 digits:  

1,000,000,0.00,000,000

OR

10,000,000.00000000

[generalizethis]

As far as the corp accounts of Zech--that's a matter for the shareholders to determine. Accounts like coinshop, which are game function accounts, are waiting for someone who is qualified to apply.

Let's use NewCorp as an example since it owns so much land, which will probably still remain in the event of a game relaunch. Here is a current top 5 ownership:

1. ZECHARIAH : 15,000
2. SOUL : 5,000
3. LOAF : 4,100
4. NEWCORP : 4,099
5. LITTLEFLOCK : 3,800

So right there, aside from me, you have almost 70% ownership in the top 5 that is in Zech-controlled accounts. Many other corporations, such as bank, are in a similar situation.

In regards to our M/CKM token, do we want to try to have 8 digits past the decimal place? 8 digits past the decimal seems pretty universal among exchanges and I couldn't find one that worked with more or less digits. Even for something like XMR, which has more, it looks like the sites truncate them.

If we went with 8 satoshi units (what the hell are these called anyone in a more generic sense?), 1 quadrillion in-game M/CKM is only 10 mil "full" units with 8 digits:  

1,000,000,0.00,000,000

OR

10,000,000.00000000

It's not for the game or board or town to run corporations, and personally, I don't want the added hassle--so figure it out or don't.

As far as the coin, I'm good with iluvbitcoin's ck millions idea--it fits the game play, fixes the exchange problem and is easy to explain.

[smooth]

As far as the corp accounts of Zech--that's a matter for the shareholders to determine. Accounts like coinshop, which are game function accounts, are waiting for someone who is qualified to apply.

IMO the admins who seized/locked his accounts should appoint a trustee or wealth manager (paid out of the accounts on the customary scale) who can at least vote his corp shares (and once the game restarts generally manage the assets to protect their value). The corps themselves don't need special treatment; shareholders can vote to hire managers.

[generalizethis]

As far as the corp accounts of Zech--that's a matter for the shareholders to determine. Accounts like coinshop, which are game function accounts, are waiting for someone who is qualified to apply.

IMO the admins who seized/locked his accounts should appoint a trustee or wealth manager (paid out of the accounts on the customary scale) who can at least vote his corp shares (and once the game restarts generally manage the assets to protect their value). The corps themselves don't need special treatment; shareholders can vote to hire managers.

No one has volunteered to appoint. Also, it seems the actual holders would be better suited to choose as I'm likely to appoint anyone who volunteers.

TBH, it would probably be easiest for shareholders to move on as if risto's shares don't exist. I'm more than happy to give them access to the account as soon as they are ready.

[boomboom]

It's just my personal principle, ofcourse if others think this is better for the game, I'll be more than happy to go along.

I understand your principle, but you could also consider this to be a complete reboot of the game where existing holders get some percentage of the new supply as an airdrop (pretty generous!). Given that the game is essentially dead in the water, that's not an unreasonable approach at all.

Again, I'm neutral on the idea, but at this point those of us who want to see something positive come out of this game should be open to a variety of proposals, and evaluate available credible proposals against each other not against some fantasy where nothing of substance changes in the game and suddenly it is worth $100 million.

Looks to me that this proposal is very similar to what NXT is doing with Ardor and Ignis at the moment, and for similar reasons.  NXT funding model was broken from day one, only dev funds they've ever had came from 1% of coins never claimed from the original ICO in september 2013. After 4 years they've finally realised they can't compete without proper funding, donations and volunteers just isn't enough.

Rather than give existing NXT holders a haircut and use the diluted coins for the ICO, what they're doing is giving everyone a 1:1 swap with the new parent chain token Ardor, and then a 2:1 swap for the first child chain token Ignis, and the ICO is selling the remaining 50% of Ignis.

That looks similar to what is happening here, existing M holders get 1:1 swap with the CKO token that might pay some dividends one day, and then 2:1 swap with CKM game currency. That's a good deal for existing M holders, and a 50% ICO of CKM will generate a sizeable pot of future funding, which means CK's future looks more promising, so prospect of healthy CKO based dividend stream down the road is realistic.

CK funding model is broken, and by splitting CKO off from CKM nobody is actually getting diluted, and future dev funding is taken care of. It's actually really good outcome IMO, I'm excited!

[JohnBitCo]

You know it's part of the growth cycle for business. If a forum didn't abused its users, then those users wouldn't have any reason to go off at start their own forums. This is been true business since day one. The majority of new businesses are started because a customer or client was unhappy with the service level or some aspect of a business and decided to try it on their own.

[BitcoinsGreat]

Every time a person walks away unhappy business there's the potential that a brand new business can spring up because. And every new business create new action in the economy and every bit of movement the economy is good for the country and for the world.

[boomboom]

Gringotts depository might have a problem, deposit not credited

edit: received now, ty

[generalizethis]

NPC, Production Shares and Horse Production Rounds have been delayed due to commands overhaul and will finished asap.