Ripple is in major trouble

[LocoMB]

The University of Bayreuth, which awarded him a Ph.D. in 2006, ruled he had "extensively violated academic standards and intentionally cheated."
Since the plagiarism scandal he lives in exile in the wealthy New York suburb of Greenwich.
He can point to a family of Nazi resisters.
He wants to police the internet and put criminal penalties on internet and other technological companies that will not do as the government wants
He called Donald Trump "that blonde lunatic named Donald".
He has the right to select the priest for his parish, fact.
He is a seriosly inbread thing.

Long live Bitcoin and freedom

... and more pointedly, the greaseball oily Baron was Defence Minister of the Federal Republic of Germany and  McCrystals general water carrier and door holder before being kicked out as an academic fraud


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1051679.msg11310706#msg11310706

[g___]

Karl-Theodor_zu_Guttenberg a German aristocrat who is a proven fraud.

Long live Bitcoin and freedom

you know who else are frauds? roger ver, jihan wu, and mark karpeles... "bitcoin & freedom" in the same sentence are a joke at this point. there is no real democracy and if you believe any different, you're blinded by the vision and not the reality.

[JoelKatz]

Ripple was not launched fully open source guys.
They added open source code later over criticisms over crypto idealogy.
Which is now long gone.

And if you think about it.. since Ripple is a centralized company it makes no sense to open source their code.
They did though for one reason !
To appeal to the crowd here so they would buy the Ripple coins.

Except we said from day one that we would open source our code. Lots of people said we wouldn't do that. We patiently explained that there was absolutely no incentive for us not to open source our code and lots of reasons for us to open source it. Specifically, the more people have to trust us, the more that's an obstacle to our success. We love for people to trust us, that's all good for us. But we hate for people to have to trust us, that's all bad for us.

We carefully designed a system so that absolutely no trust in us is required by the system's design. And we have a track record of progressively improving decentralization. We've carefully explained the obstacles to decentralization, our plans, and our progress.

Centralization is of no help to us whatsoever. The day we abused any power we have, we would do so completely in the open with cryptographic proof of our betrayal. That would be game over for us. Decentralization is all win for us.

When we do what is in our own interest, as we've always promised to do, you complain that we only did it because it was in our interest to do so! Well, duh. We've carefully designed a system that aligns interests.

Let me ask you a few very specific questions that I'm 100% sure you'll never answer with actual facts:

1) Do you think it would be bad for us if XRP was unarguably more decentralized than bitcoin? Isn't it clear that would be awesome for us? If not, what downside do you see?

2) Do you think our technology is incapable of being fully decentralized? If so, clearly explain why.

3) If it's in our interest for XRP to be more decentralized than bitcoin and our technology is capable of it, why do you think we wouldn't be aggressively pursuing it?

[kadscuk]

1) Do you think it would be bad for us if XRP was unarguably more decentralized than bitcoin? Isn't it clear that would be awesome for us? If not, what downside do you see?

2) Do you think our technology is incapable of being fully decentralized? If so, clearly explain why.

3) If it's in our interest for XRP to be more decentralized than bitcoin and our technology is capable of it, why do you think we wouldn't be aggressively pursuing it?

The only reason you're even talking about decentralization is because crypto investors here are calling you out on it...

Show me where you talked about XRP being decentralised when you first launched the concept..when you first launched the concept you kept a whole load of the XRP to yourself...centralisation pure and simple.

The questions your posing are mute points..its simply you changing your track because you've been called out. Your trying to cover it up by saying decentralisation is good

Actions count more than words. Doesn't matter what mental gymnastics you want to play

[Ucy]

Just wondering if it would be possible for inventors  to patent their cryptocurrency in other to avoid this scenario playing out again.  Alot of hard work has gone into creating this stuff only for copycats clone them.

[JoelKatz]

Just wondering if it would be possible for inventors  to patent their cryptocurrency in other to avoid this scenario playing out again.  Alot of hard work has gone into creating this stuff only for copycats clone them.

It would be. But we really want to succeed on a level playing field because we think that will bring the broadest adoption and be best for the industry generally.

[JoelKatz]

1) Do you think it would be bad for us if XRP was unarguably more decentralized than bitcoin? Isn't it clear that would be awesome for us? If not, what downside do you see?

2) Do you think our technology is incapable of being fully decentralized? If so, clearly explain why.

3) If it's in our interest for XRP to be more decentralized than bitcoin and our technology is capable of it, why do you think we wouldn't be aggressively pursuing it?

The only reason you're even talking about decentralization is because crypto investors here are calling you out on it...

Show me where you talked about XRP being decentralised when you first launched the concept..when you first launched the concept you kept a whole load of the XRP to yourself...centralisation pure and simple.

The questions your posing are mute points..its simply you changing your track because you've been called out. Your trying to cover it up by saying decentralisation is good

Actions count more than words. Doesn't matter what mental gymnastics you want to play

If you're not going to respond to my arguments, don't pretend to.

Yes or no, do you think increasing decentralization is in Ripple's interest? Yes or no, do you think our technology is capable of operating in a decentralized configuration?

"The questions your posing are mute points..its simply you changing your track because you've been called out. Your trying to cover it up by saying decentralisation is good"

Do facts matter at all to you? Why is it so much more important to you what we say than what is actually true? Is decentralization good for us? Yes or no? Defend your answer. You cannot do so, so you change the subject.

Why aren't you up in arms at the bitcoin community for allowing China to decide which transactions go in a block? Maybe they're not focusing on that problem because nobody is calling them out on it. If nobody's making it a big deal, maybe that's because it really isn't a big deal. Do you think the bitcoin community should make this problem a major focus right now just because I'm making a big deal about it? Or should they focus on the actual day-to-day issues their actual users are facing? So even if you're right, you're just accusing us of being sane and rational and not making something a priority when it actually isn't to real users.

[kingorbust]

is ripple really in trouble,at least when it comes to price? Price seems to be on the way up, it came out of falling wedge...most think it will go up nicelly again..

[blacque]

There is growing awareness among crypto particpants that governance - who makes the decisons and how the decisions are made - is a critical/ultra important part of a currency, whether fiat or crypto.

The basic message from the Ripple fan club would be:  "trust us, our motives are pure!"  

Meanwhile, upcoming coin Tezos will hard-code open governance into the codebase itself.

Trust strikes at the heart of any currency, any community, any consensual process amongst human beings - the coin with the best trust will win the most.

US Dollar bill = "In God, We Trust"

XRP/Ripple = "trust us, we know what we're doing"

Tezos (and future imitators) =  don't trust me at all, change the coin itself/its codebase as the way of effecting change/making decisions, codelogic=governance process  (think 'strange loop', or the game called 'Nomic' >  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomic )

[2bfree]

Ripple has made a killing jumping on the cryptop bandwagon when there had nothing to do with it, they just rode the crypto horse to billions when what they had before Satoshi was nothing.

[kadscuk]

1) Do you think it would be bad for us if XRP was unarguably more decentralized than bitcoin? Isn't it clear that would be awesome for us? If not, what downside do you see?

2) Do you think our technology is incapable of being fully decentralized? If so, clearly explain why.

3) If it's in our interest for XRP to be more decentralized than bitcoin and our technology is capable of it, why do you think we wouldn't be aggressively pursuing it?

The only reason you're even talking about decentralization is because crypto investors here are calling you out on it...

Show me where you talked about XRP being decentralised when you first launched the concept..when you first launched the concept you kept a whole load of the XRP to yourself...centralisation pure and simple.

The questions your posing are mute points..its simply you changing your track because you've been called out. Your trying to cover it up by saying decentralisation is good

Actions count more than words. Doesn't matter what mental gymnastics you want to play

If you're not going to respond to my arguments, don't pretend to.

Yes or no, do you think increasing decentralization is in Ripple's interest? Yes or no, do you think our technology is capable of operating in a decentralized configuration?

"The questions your posing are mute points..its simply you changing your track because you've been called out. Your trying to cover it up by saying decentralisation is good"

Do facts matter at all to you? Why is it so much more important to you what we say than what is actually true? Is decentralization good for us? Yes or no? Defend your answer. You cannot do so, so you change the subject.

Why aren't you up in arms at the bitcoin community for allowing China to decide which transactions go in a block? Maybe they're not focusing on that problem because nobody is calling them out on it. If nobody's making it a big deal, maybe that's because it really isn't a big deal. Do you think the bitcoin community should make this problem a major focus right now just because I'm making a big deal about it? Or should they focus on the actual day-to-day issues their actual users are facing? So even if you're right, you're just accusing us of being sane and rational and not making something a priority when it actually isn't to real users.

Once again, show me where in the original concept ripple talks about being decentralised...show me in the whitepaper. The whitepaper is the facts.

If you aren't willing to respond to that, I conclude your guilty of covering your tracks.

Funny how suddenly you become the savior of decentralisation when we're calling you out on it!! Haha

Everyone else take note - ripple has suddenly become the savior of decentralisation because we've called them out on it...lol

Yes..of course decentralisation is a good idea...a concept that you're now harping on about because we called you out on it

You have changed your track and that is a good thing, but once again, show me where in the original XRP and ripple concept that you have decentralisation as your core concept...it's not there is it??

Show me the facts of what you originally wrote in the whitepaper

[Sukrim]

What is this "original" whitepaper you're referring to? https://ripple.com/dev-blog/consensus-whitepaper-released/ ?
I prefer to look at code instead of papers and rippled was from the beginning designed to operate in a decentralized way (https://github.com/ripple/rippled).
If you are so certain that the initial strategy was heavy centralization and Ripple Inc. changed it because of criticism in this forum here, you surely have some substantial proof of that, right?

[freeElectron]

1) Do you think it would be bad for us if XRP was unarguably more decentralized than bitcoin? Isn't it clear that would be awesome for us? If not, what downside do you see?

2) Do you think our technology is incapable of being fully decentralized? If so, clearly explain why.

3) If it's in our interest for XRP to be more decentralized than bitcoin and our technology is capable of it, why do you think we wouldn't be aggressively pursuing it?

The only reason you're even talking about decentralization is because crypto investors here are calling you out on it...

Show me where you talked about XRP being decentralised when you first launched the concept..when you first launched the concept you kept a whole load of the XRP to yourself...centralisation pure and simple.

The questions your posing are mute points..its simply you changing your track because you've been called out. Your trying to cover it up by saying decentralisation is good

Actions count more than words. Doesn't matter what mental gymnastics you want to play

If you're not going to respond to my arguments, don't pretend to.

Yes or no, do you think increasing decentralization is in Ripple's interest? Yes or no, do you think our technology is capable of operating in a decentralized configuration?

"The questions your posing are mute points..its simply you changing your track because you've been called out. Your trying to cover it up by saying decentralisation is good"

Do facts matter at all to you? Why is it so much more important to you what we say than what is actually true? Is decentralization good for us? Yes or no? Defend your answer. You cannot do so, so you change the subject.

Why aren't you up in arms at the bitcoin community for allowing China to decide which transactions go in a block? Maybe they're not focusing on that problem because nobody is calling them out on it. If nobody's making it a big deal, maybe that's because it really isn't a big deal. Do you think the bitcoin community should make this problem a major focus right now just because I'm making a big deal about it? Or should they focus on the actual day-to-day issues their actual users are facing? So even if you're right, you're just accusing us of being sane and rational and not making something a priority when it actually isn't to real users.

Once again, show me where in the original concept ripple talks about being decentralised...show me in the whitepaper. The whitepaper is the facts.

If you aren't willing to respond to that, I conclude your guilty of covering your tracks.

Funny how suddenly you become the savior of decentralisation when we're calling you out on it!! Haha

Everyone else take note - ripple has suddenly become the savior of decentralisation because we've called them out on it...lol

Yes..of course decentralisation is a good idea...a concept that you're now harping on about because we called you out on it

You have changed your track and that is a good thing, but once again, show me where in the original XRP and ripple concept that you have decentralisation as your core concept...it's not there is it??

Show me the facts of what you originally wrote in the whitepaper

"The predecessor to the Ripple payment protocol, Ripplepay, was first developed in 2004 by Ryan Fugger,[18][19] a web developer in Vancouver, British Columbia.[20] Fugger conceived of the idea after working on a local exchange trading system in Vancouver, and his intent was to create a monetary system that was decentralized and could effectively allow individuals and communities to create their own money. Fugger's first iteration of this system, RipplePay.com,[21] debuted in 2005 as a financial service to provide secure payment options to members of an online community via a global network.[20][22]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripple_(payment_protocol)

[kadscuk]

What is this "original" whitepaper you're referring to? https://ripple.com/dev-blog/consensus-whitepaper-released/ ?
I prefer to look at code instead of papers and rippled was from the beginning designed to operate in a decentralized way (https://github.com/ripple/rippled).
If you are so certain that the initial strategy was heavy centralization and Ripple Inc. changed it because of criticism in this forum here, you surely have some substantial proof of that, right?

Proof comes from actions because actions count more than words....why did they keep 60% (or more) of the XRP if its not centralisation?

Seems to me they are talking about decentralisation now, when before they were (through their actions) wanting to be centralised..owning 60%+ of the XRP

"The predecessor to the Ripple payment protocol, Ripplepay, was first developed in 2004 by Ryan Fugger,[18][19] a web developer in Vancouver, British Columbia.[20] Fugger conceived of the idea after working on a local exchange trading system in Vancouver, and his intent was to create a monetary system that was decentralized and could effectively allow individuals and communities to create their own money. Fugger's first iteration of this system, RipplePay.com,[21] debuted in 2005 as a financial service to provide secure payment options to members of an online community via a global network.[20][22]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripple_(payment_protocol)

This is interesting...thanks for this....

So, the predecessor in his intention was to be decentralised, but then they went centralised in their actions by owning majority of the XRP, and now they are talking about being decentralised again due to investor pressure and being called out.....

I would say actions count more than words...if its to be decentralised....like all the other cryptos out there, then why keep the majority of the XRP to yourself

Also, for the XRP that they kept to themselves, for what price was this XRP bought for? Or did they just magically allocate it to themselves by not paying a penny? So in which case, the valuation of XRP is unjustified

[JoelKatz]

You only have to ask two questions:

1) Is Ripple's consensus algorithm capable of operating in a decentralized way?

2) Is it plausible that someone could have accidentally developed such an algorithm without intending it to be used this way?

Satoshi's biggest breakthrough was finding the first way to solve the double spend problem without a central authority (proof of work). Our first breakthrough was finding the second way (a distributed agreement protocol that doesn't require a leader or complete prior agreement on the participants).

[btctousd81]

couple of indian banks have joined ripple, for their tech.

ripple is low now , but will come back up, it will take time., but it will be back up and more than ever., i am holding ripple.,

[kadscuk]

You only have to ask two questions:

1) Is Ripple's consensus algorithm capable of operating in a decentralized way?

2) Is it plausible that someone could have accidentally developed such an algorithm without intending it to be used this way?

Satoshi's biggest breakthrough was finding the first way to solve the double spend problem without a central authority (proof of work). Our first breakthrough was finding the second way (a distributed agreement protocol that doesn't require a leader or complete prior agreement on the participants).

This is the type of "ignoring investors comments" that won't win you any brownie points...everybody else take note....

A much more respectable way to approach this would be:

a) to acknowledge the concerns raised as the ripple/xrp concept has evolved
b) acknowledging that investor feedback and comments has been taken on board to evolve things on the right line

You have done neither...actions of ripple and XRP dont match your words. It seems you're unable to have a dialogue so everybody else take note

Once again:

For the XRP that ripple has kept to themselves, for what price was this XRP bought for? Or did they just magically allocate it to themselves by not paying a penny?

[Aquazi]

RIP ple

[viralz]

http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Japan-s-SBI-megabanks-take-stakes-in-blockchain-group-R3?n_cid=NARAN012

http://www.c[Suspicious link removed]m/2017/05/23/r3-funding-blockchain-intel-bank-of-america-hsbc.html



So Ripple signed Japan SBI which was a group of about 47 banks and created SBI Ripple Asia which caused pump from .20c to .40c but news just came out today that Japan SBI joined R3 and are creating their own coin. R3 has loads of banks on board and is like a Universal Bank Consortium, majority will be owned by the banks in it unlike Ripple. They will use it to implement blockchain solutions to save them money. I saw this coming a mile away. All these banks are investing in their own ILP Ripple type network so they don't have to depend on a third party. Why depend on a third party when you can have your own and save even more? Whales are trying to maintain XRP value as some hold a lot but they can only keep buying so long because noone else is buying.

Below are some competitors in the blockchain banking scene with more coming:


R3
Quorum
Ripple
Axoni
InfoSys


Good bye Swift and Ripple, hello R3 lol get out before the house burns down I've been saying this for awhile now. There is no more good news left for Ripple. They were a shame at Consensus and now their own group just ditched them. Greedy centralized trash.

They still on board of Ripple,
they didnt plan to get out of XRP and they only want to make cloud blockchain and new coin for them.
Please check again the above link as it doesnt say about leaving XRP.
That news was on 23 May 17.

Another link on Nikei:
it only emphasis that they are on Ripple.


Check this word on it:
SBI has also teamed up with Ripple, the U.S. financial technology startup behind the virtual currency XRP, to form the joint venture SBI Ripple Asia. The SBI group plans to begin operating an exchange for virtual currencies this summer, and plans to launch its own such currency, SBI Coin, down the road. 

Conclusions:
- they are on XRP;
- dont be surprised there will be (strong) new coin, I dont know about their final form and game-rules;

Will they do ICO? It is gonna be very wild.

[nasibakar]

http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Japan-s-SBI-megabanks-take-stakes-in-blockchain-group-R3?n_cid=NARAN012

http://www.c[Suspicious link removed]m/2017/05/23/r3-funding-blockchain-intel-bank-of-america-hsbc.html



So Ripple signed Japan SBI which was a group of about 47 banks and created SBI Ripple Asia which caused pump from .20c to .40c but news just came out today that Japan SBI joined R3 and are creating their own coin. R3 has loads of banks on board and is like a Universal Bank Consortium, majority will be owned by the banks in it unlike Ripple. They will use it to implement blockchain solutions to save them money. I saw this coming a mile away. All these banks are investing in their own ILP Ripple type network so they don't have to depend on a third party. Why depend on a third party when you can have your own and save even more? Whales are trying to maintain XRP value as some hold a lot but they can only keep buying so long because noone else is buying.

Below are some competitors in the blockchain banking scene with more coming:


R3
Quorum
Ripple
Axoni
InfoSys


Good bye Swift and Ripple, hello R3 lol get out before the house burns down I've been saying this for awhile now. There is no more good news left for Ripple. They were a shame at Consensus and now their own group just ditched them. Greedy centralized trash.

They still on board of Ripple,
they didnt plan to get out of XRP and they only want to make cloud blockchain and new coin for them.
Please check again the above link as it doesnt say about leaving XRP.
That news was on 23 May 17.

Another link on Nikei:
it only emphasis that they are on Ripple.


Check this word on it:
SBI has also teamed up with Ripple, the U.S. financial technology startup behind the virtual currency XRP, to form the joint venture SBI Ripple Asia. The SBI group plans to begin operating an exchange for virtual currencies this summer, and plans to launch its own such currency, SBI Coin, down the road. 

Conclusions:
- they are on XRP;
- dont be surprised there will be (strong) new coin, I dont know about their final form and game-rules;

Will they do ICO? It is gonna be very wild.

I was about very optimistic about Ripple and had pushed it but I ll wait for next move probably.
By the way,
Thanks to inform that they are still on XRP.

I check Ripple site and there is no news about compete with R3 and some banks leaving XRP,.... so I am still optimistic about XRP.
I wait for the signal and jump

Nice conclusion, will they have ICO?