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Author Topic: [ANN] ChipMixer.com - Bitcoin mixer / Bitcoin tumbler - mixing reinvented  (Read 65972 times)
vtrx
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August 18, 2017, 10:38:24 PM
 #461


  • we wait 48h for your input transaction and we can wait more on request


Could you possibly make a button (and function) to destroy the session earlier? If I managed to complete mixing within 4 hours, I would prefer to click such a button to destry the session immediately. Please advise.
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August 19, 2017, 12:36:05 AM
 #462


  • we wait 48h for your input transaction and we can wait more on request


Could you possibly make a button (and function) to destroy the session earlier? If I managed to complete mixing within 4 hours, I would prefer to click such a button to destry the session immediately. Please advise.
IMO this could lead to users to deleting their session as a mistake and losing their coins forever.

I don't mind keeping my session alive for 48 hours after withdrawing my private keys. What are the cons in your opinion?

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August 19, 2017, 03:11:24 AM
 #463


  • we wait 48h for your input transaction and we can wait more on request


Could you possibly make a button (and function) to destroy the session earlier? If I managed to complete mixing within 4 hours, I would prefer to click such a button to destry the session immediately. Please advise.
IMO this could lead to users to deleting their session as a mistake and losing their coins forever.

I don't mind keeping my session alive for 48 hours after withdrawing my private keys. What are the cons in your opinion?

I didn't notice at once, but this button already exists in Step #4. And you can destroy the session immediately, going to a new step should prevent "deleting the session as a mistake"
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August 19, 2017, 11:13:59 AM
 #464

Could you possibly make a button (and function) to destroy the session earlier? If I managed to complete mixing within 4 hours, I would prefer to click such a button to destry the session immediately. Please advise.
I didn't notice at once, but this button already exists in Step #4. And you can destroy the session immediately, going to a new step should prevent "deleting the session as a mistake"
Mixing with ChipMixer is done in four steps. Step 4 - destroying the session - is made after all steps were completed.

IMO this could lead to users to deleting their session as a mistake and losing their coins forever.

I don't mind keeping my session alive for 48 hours after withdrawing my private keys. What are the cons in your opinion?
48h session time is there to handle support requests. If you have mixed and withdrawn chips without any problem, you should always destroy the session for your private keys safety. If you don't use Tor Browser then revisiting ChipMixer website will restore the session and private keys still will be visible. If you have sent your session token using forum PM, it can be used to restore your session and access your private keys. If ChipMixer gets hacked, your private keys may be endangered.

All three cases are void when you destroy your session. Please do not make us store your private keys longer than it is necessary.

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August 21, 2017, 09:10:35 PM
 #465

I from time to time need to hand out payments to a wide variety of people, but at this point there is no way I can send an exact amount of coins to a certain address if I choose the option to have ChipMixer send various chip values to whatever address. The fees that ChipMixer deducts for the transaction will always result in an odd amount to be sent to the provided address.

I was thinking about something like this;

Chip 0.015BTC -> withdraw exactly 0.0125BTC (where the rest of the chip value serves as fee and donation).
Chip 0.02BTC -> withdraw exactly 0.018BTC (where the rest of the chip value serves as fee and donation).

In other words, I would like to manually input a value to be withdrawn (obviously always lower than the main chip value due to fees and such). See it as extra convenience for the end user. Smiley
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August 22, 2017, 05:43:16 AM
Last edit: August 22, 2017, 11:15:53 AM by mocacinno
 #466

I from time to time need to hand out payments to a wide variety of people, but at this point there is no way I can send an exact amount of coins to a certain address if I choose the option to have ChipMixer send various chip values to whatever address. The fees that ChipMixer deducts for the transaction will always result in an odd amount to be sent to the provided address.

I was thinking about something like this;

Chip 0.015BTC -> withdraw exactly 0.0125BTC (where the rest of the chip value serves as fee and donation).
Chip 0.02BTC -> withdraw exactly 0.018BTC (where the rest of the chip value serves as fee and donation).

In other words, I would like to manually input a value to be withdrawn (obviously always lower than the main chip value due to fees and such). See it as extra convenience for the end user. Smiley

Wouldn't that be something completely different than the current way chipmixer works? In my opinion, the power of chipmixer lays in the fact that the chips are pre-generated before you even deposit any funds into your chipmixer session.
If you were requesting different chipsizes, chipmixer would either have to generate these chipsizes on request before any deposit happened, or they would have to generate them afterwards (which would not seem like a good idear to me, bitmixer would lose some of its appeal to me)

EDIT: replaced 3 typo's... I meanth to say chipmixer, but wrote bitmixer (old habits die slow)

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August 22, 2017, 09:40:20 AM
 #467

I from time to time need to hand out payments to a wide variety of people, but at this point there is no way I can send an exact amount of coins to a certain address if I choose the option to have ChipMixer send various chip values to whatever address. The fees that ChipMixer deducts for the transaction will always result in an odd amount to be sent to the provided address.

I was thinking about something like this;

Chip 0.015BTC -> withdraw exactly 0.0125BTC (where the rest of the chip value serves as fee and donation).
Chip 0.02BTC -> withdraw exactly 0.018BTC (where the rest of the chip value serves as fee and donation).

In other words, I would like to manually input a value to be withdrawn (obviously always lower than the main chip value due to fees and such). See it as extra convenience for the end user. Smiley
Chipmixer doesn't have 0.015 and 0.02 BTC chips. If you want to make multiple payments, you save a lot on fees if you make them in one transaction. Bitcoin Core can do this, Electrum too.
Paying 0.015 to send 0.0125 seems very inefficient to me, I don't think many people would use that option.

Wouldn't that be something completely different than the current way bitmixer works? In my opinion, the power of bitmixer lays in the fact that the chips are pre-generated before you even deposit any funds into your bitmixer session.
If you were requesting different chipsizes, chipmixer would either have to generate these chipsizes on request before any deposit happened, or they would have to generate them afterwards (which would not seem like a good idear to me, bitmixer would lose some of its appeal to me)
Did you forget what you're advertising?

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August 22, 2017, 10:27:38 AM
 #468

I was wondering if there was still any bitcoin cash left to claim in any of the private keys? Or basically in a simpler way, whether any of the private keys or chips that you guys have still happen to have funding that occurred before 1st August?

I remember you guys saying at the start of this month that that was the case, but obviously the fork has been a while now.

Also, may i ask what's the total amount of chips in existence? Both number wise, and value wise. I know this may be sensitive info, but please respond with an approximation at least if possible. Thank you!

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August 22, 2017, 11:14:13 AM
 #469

Wouldn't that be something completely different than the current way bitmixer works? In my opinion, the power of bitmixer lays in the fact that the chips are pre-generated before you even deposit any funds into your bitmixer session.
If you were requesting different chipsizes, chipmixer would either have to generate these chipsizes on request before any deposit happened, or they would have to generate them afterwards (which would not seem like a good idear to me, bitmixer would lose some of its appeal to me)
Did you forget what you're advertising?

Good catch, i meant chipmixer offcourse  Grin (all these years of bitmixer being the only reliable mixer around made me develop a habit of typing bitmixer)...

I'll edit the first post!

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August 22, 2017, 12:19:07 PM
 #470

I from time to time need to hand out payments to a wide variety of people, but at this point there is no way I can send an exact amount of coins to a certain address if I choose the option to have ChipMixer send various chip values to whatever address. The fees that ChipMixer deducts for the transaction will always result in an odd amount to be sent to the provided address.
ChipMixer is not a wallet but a privacy tool. Sweeping option is there for people who does not know how to import private keys into their wallet.


I was wondering if there was still any bitcoin cash left to claim in any of the private keys? Or basically in a simpler way, whether any of the private keys or chips that you guys have still happen to have funding that occurred before 1st August?
No. When we have reenabled ChipMixer after fork all available chips that contained both BTC and BCH were withdrawn by users in 12h. That high traffic seemed weird at that time but now we know somebody predicted value of forked coin.


Also, may i ask what's the total amount of chips in existence? Both number wise, and value wise. I know this may be sensitive info, but please respond with an approximation at least if possible. Thank you!
This is sensitive info, sorry.

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August 23, 2017, 06:05:10 AM
 #471

Hey, I was reading through your FAQs and I found the following excerpt:

"Our goal is to make Bitcoin value independent of its blockchain history. Some governments and corporations wants to invalidate its value by claiming they are connected to something immoral like gambling. Every time you withdraw from ChipMixer, we give you cryptographically signed receipt that proves you have received those funds from us. Since the disconnection of history is proven, there can be no loss of value."

I understand how ending up with bitcoin from an address related to a an address linked back to illegal or immoral activity could make you seem suspicious of something and how the receipt can claim the money is sourced from a mixer. However, couldn't this also be used the other way around to say that the money was gotten from a mixer and therefore it was originally from an illegal activity/money laundering. Of course, this is a backwards way of thinking and completely wrong, but just an example of times in which forces such as the government are looking for reasons to steal the money and this might not fully help. It is always good to have the option, however.

Nothing to say.
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August 23, 2017, 07:15:07 AM
 #472

I understand how ending up with bitcoin from an address related to a an address linked back to illegal or immoral activity could make you seem suspicious of something and how the receipt can claim the money is sourced from a mixer. However, couldn't this also be used the other way around to say that the money was gotten from a mixer and therefore it was originally from an illegal activity/money laundering.
That is actually what the Dutch government wants to do: if you have Bitcoins from a mixer, they want that to be considered suspicious by default. I don't think that law has passed yet though.
If they reverse the normal procedure where they have to prove you did something wrong into you having to prove you're innocent, then yes, mixing doesn't help you.

Quote
Of course, this is a backwards way of thinking and completely wrong, but just an example of times in which forces such as the government are looking for reasons to steal the money and this might not fully help. It is always good to have the option, however.
I wondered about something else (when BitMixer closed): suppose you end up in court for whatever reason, and you show a signature from either BitMixer or ChipMixer. That signature is supposed to prove you got money from the mixer, so you're not involved in the crime they are trying to convinct you for.
BixMixer used that signature as a selling point, but I wonder if there has ever been a lawsuit in which it was actually used. And if so, it comes down to a judge trusting an anonymous source (BitMixer or ChipMixer). Playing devil's advocate you could argue BitMixer can still use their address to sign from after closing, and that signature can say anything they want.

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August 23, 2017, 07:27:44 AM
 #473

Hey, I was reading through your FAQs and I found the following excerpt:

"Our goal is to make Bitcoin value independent of its blockchain history. Some governments and corporations wants to invalidate its value by claiming they are connected to something immoral like gambling. Every time you withdraw from ChipMixer, we give you cryptographically signed receipt that proves you have received those funds from us. Since the disconnection of history is proven, there can be no loss of value."

I understand how ending up with bitcoin from an address related to a an address linked back to illegal or immoral activity could make you seem suspicious of something and how the receipt can claim the money is sourced from a mixer. However, couldn't this also be used the other way around to say that the money was gotten from a mixer and therefore it was originally from an illegal activity/money laundering. Of course, this is a backwards way of thinking and completely wrong, but just an example of times in which forces such as the government are looking for reasons to steal the money and this might not fully help. It is always good to have the option, however.

Better to look suspicious than to look guilty of a crime you didn't commit. In general innocent-until-proven-guilty still has to apply, everything else is just conjecture. Question being of course whether they will make mixing itself illegal in a given legislature (ie. defining the usage of a mixer as money laundering).

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August 23, 2017, 08:22:57 AM
 #474

I from time to time need to hand out payments to a wide variety of people, but at this point there is no way I can send an exact amount of coins to a certain address if I choose the option to have ChipMixer send various chip values to whatever address. The fees that ChipMixer deducts for the transaction will always result in an odd amount to be sent to the provided address.
ChipMixer is not a wallet but a privacy tool. Sweeping option is there for people who does not know how to import private keys into their wallet.


I was wondering if there was still any bitcoin cash left to claim in any of the private keys? Or basically in a simpler way, whether any of the private keys or chips that you guys have still happen to have funding that occurred before 1st August?
No. When we have reenabled ChipMixer after fork all available chips that contained both BTC and BCH were withdrawn by users in 12h. That high traffic seemed weird at that time but now we know somebody predicted value of forked coin.


Also, may i ask what's the total amount of chips in existence? Both number wise, and value wise. I know this may be sensitive info, but please respond with an approximation at least if possible. Thank you!
This is sensitive info, sorry.

Ah okay, it's not surprising really considering the fact that BCH was worth a several hundred dollars even back then when the fork just happened(it's obviously a lot higher now), people must have been taking advantage of the chips containing BCH, i guess.

And yeah, i definitely understand why you're protecting that info.

I really just wanted to get an idea of how big Chipmixer is right now. Could you even release some info on the 24h volume, or how much money is being mixed in a day's time? Or is that sensitive info as well? (sorry if it is, i'm just curious.).

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August 23, 2017, 03:53:39 PM
 #475

I understand how ending up with bitcoin from an address related to a an address linked back to illegal or immoral activity could make you seem suspicious of something and how the receipt can claim the money is sourced from a mixer. However, couldn't this also be used the other way around to say that the money was gotten from a mixer and therefore it was originally from an illegal activity/money laundering.
Using mixer is like using encryption - it is for privacy and it is not illegal (yet). Same argument could be used with Bitcoin - you have Bitcoins so you do something illegal/money laundering. It is drug dealers and terrorists currency! Governments wants to ban encryption and use the same arguments. Proof that you used mixer is the same as proof you have encrypted hard drive or you use https.

it comes down to a judge trusting an anonymous source (BitMixer or ChipMixer).
As long as judge understands cryptography it comes to judge trusting cryptographic proof of a known identity. We are a witness. We do not have an interest in the case. We have no reason to lie. Our public key is known and unchanged since the begin of ChipMixer. If users trust us with their money based on our reputation then why judge would not trust us.

Playing devil's advocate you could argue BitMixer can still use their address to sign from after closing, and that signature can say anything they want.
Yes, they still can sign and it should still be trusted. Satoshi also went "out of business" but if somebody signs something with their key then we would trust that.

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August 24, 2017, 01:32:08 PM
Last edit: August 28, 2017, 11:03:02 AM by ChipMixer
 #476

I really just wanted to get an idea of how big Chipmixer is right now. Could you even release some info on the 24h volume, or how much money is being mixed in a day's time? Or is that sensitive info as well? (sorry if it is, i'm just curious.).
It is a valid concern of mixer customer to think about mixer volume. If your deposit is much higher than average deposit then your privacy is at risk. At least when you use bitmixer-type tumbler. With ChipMixer you always withdraw old chips and that hides the flaw.
ChipMixer recommends to deposit up to 10 BTC per single session.

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August 24, 2017, 10:26:08 PM
 #477

According to your FAQ, it states that it is possible to deposit a weird number of coins such as 1.024 BTC, to be offered a 1 BTC chip that you can withdraw.

First question -- if I for example deposit 1.01 BTC, will I then still have the option to get that 1 BTC chip, or is it required to deposit that 1.024 BTC as minimum?

Second question -- is this 1 BTC chip the highest possible value, or can we also get 2 or 5 BTC chips (the FAQ doesn't state this information)?
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August 25, 2017, 10:54:39 AM
 #478

Wouldn't that be something completely different than the current way bitmixer works? In my opinion, the power of bitmixer lays in the fact that the chips are pre-generated before you even deposit any funds into your bitmixer session.
If you were requesting different chipsizes, chipmixer would either have to generate these chipsizes on request before any deposit happened, or they would have to generate them afterwards (which would not seem like a good idear to me, bitmixer would lose some of its appeal to me)
Did you forget what you're advertising?

Good catch, i meant chipmixer offcourse  Grin (all these years of bitmixer being the only reliable mixer around made me develop a habit of typing bitmixer)...

I'll edit the first post!

LOL. An ex-bitmixer campaign member perhaps?  Cheesy Cheesy

Hey, I was reading through your FAQs and I found the following excerpt:

"Our goal is to make Bitcoin value independent of its blockchain history. Some governments and corporations wants to invalidate its value by claiming they are connected to something immoral like gambling. Every time you withdraw from ChipMixer, we give you cryptographically signed receipt that proves you have received those funds from us. Since the disconnection of history is proven, there can be no loss of value."

I understand how ending up with bitcoin from an address related to a an address linked back to illegal or immoral activity could make you seem suspicious of something and how the receipt can claim the money is sourced from a mixer. However, couldn't this also be used the other way around to say that the money was gotten from a mixer and therefore it was originally from an illegal activity/money laundering. Of course, this is a backwards way of thinking and completely wrong, but just an example of times in which forces such as the government are looking for reasons to steal the money and this might not fully help. It is always good to have the option, however.

Better to look suspicious than to look guilty of a crime you didn't commit. In general innocent-until-proven-guilty still has to apply, everything else is just conjecture. Question being of course whether they will make mixing itself illegal in a given legislature (ie. defining the usage of a mixer as money laundering).

I personally don't use bitcoin mixers, but does withdrawals only come from one or a few addresses? Because I'm pretty sure not all people that use mixers are actually guilty of a certain crime. I could see myself using a mixer in the future if I would like to move my bitcoins into another wallet using a mixer mainly just so that my funds somewhat are untraceable(not because I did a crime); but at the same time I definitely wouldn't want to look suspicious. This might come of as a turnoff for innocent people wanting to use mixers. Undecided

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August 25, 2017, 01:44:13 PM
 #479

The deposit addresses are uniquely generated for each new deposit? or its possible to come across the same address by multiple users? I know that this is not much important because the withdrawal addresses are unique but people could still know If you have used a mixer or not.

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August 25, 2017, 08:59:43 PM
 #480

According to your FAQ, it states that it is possible to deposit a weird number of coins such as 1.024 BTC, to be offered a 1 BTC chip that you can withdraw.

First question -- if I for example deposit 1.01 BTC, will I then still have the option to get that 1 BTC chip, or is it required to deposit that 1.024 BTC as minimum?

Second question -- is this 1 BTC chip the highest possible value, or can we also get 2 or 5 BTC chips (the FAQ doesn't state this information)?
First question -- you can exchange 1.024 BTC chip for 1 BTC chip. This action is called "commonize" and is currently disabled.
Second question -- highest possible value of a chip is 4.096 BTC. Highest commonized chip is 4 BTC.

The deposit addresses are uniquely generated for each new deposit?
No, there is a chance to reuse an unused deposit address.

I definitely wouldn't want to look suspicious. This might come of as a turnoff for innocent people wanting to use mixers. Undecided
Because only a criminal would want some privacy.

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