[ANN] ChipMixer.com - Bitcoin mixer / Bitcoin tumbler - mixing reinvented

[LoyceV]

The deposit addresses are uniquely generated for each new deposit?

No, there is a chance to reuse an unused deposit address.

Does that mean that if I open ChipMixer in my browser now, copy the deposit address, and close the site, you'll reuse this same address for someone else later?
Doesn't that open the possibility to "harvest" deposit addresses, to later on see which addresses sent money to your mixer?

If unused addresses are reused in such a way, it would be better to never reuse them.

[1715389020]

1715389020

[HCP]

It is a total fallacy that only criminals use Bitcoin and Bitcoin mixers... It is just FUD being spread by "enforcement" agencies concerned that their job is being made harder.

They are attempting to paint Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency as the devil to convince law makers to give them all sorts of extra powers...

The 1% get a bit nervous when the peons find new ways to circumvent their systems (fiat banking) and start to discover ways to cut them out of the loop.

Besides, if everyone is using a mixer, are they going to accuse everyone of being a criminal? We'd all be much "safer" if everyone used anonymizing services... They can't arrest everyone

[ChipMixer]

Does that mean that if I open ChipMixer in my browser now, copy the deposit address, and close the site, you'll reuse this same address for someone else later?
Doesn't that open the possibility to "harvest" deposit addresses, to later on see which addresses sent money to your mixer?

If unused addresses are reused in such a way, it would be better to never reuse them.

Yes, you could harvest deposit addresses this way, but the same can be achieved with blockchain analysis.


We have started discussion about how Segwit / LN can be used to increase Bitcoin privacy and their usage with Bitcoin mixing:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2120757

[audaciousbeing]

It is a total fallacy that only criminals use Bitcoin and Bitcoin mixers... It is just FUD being spread by "enforcement" agencies concerned that their job is being made harder.

They are attempting to paint Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency as the devil to convince law makers to give them all sorts of extra powers...

The 1% get a bit nervous when the peons find new ways to circumvent their systems (fiat banking) and start to discover ways to cut them out of the loop.

Besides, if everyone is using a mixer, are they going to accuse everyone of being a criminal? We'd all be much "safer" if everyone used anonymizing services... They can't arrest everyone

This is something a lot of people have some level of understanding and what mixing services should be about. In that for the mere fact of using bitcoin, you are by default wanting to stay anonymous either you using for services or for payment so then I don't see anything wrong in trying to take it further in using mixing services.

[HeRetiK]

It is a total fallacy that only criminals use Bitcoin and Bitcoin mixers... It is just FUD being spread by "enforcement" agencies concerned that their job is being made harder.

They are attempting to paint Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency as the devil to convince law makers to give them all sorts of extra powers...

The 1% get a bit nervous when the peons find new ways to circumvent their systems (fiat banking) and start to discover ways to cut them out of the loop.

Besides, if everyone is using a mixer, are they going to accuse everyone of being a criminal? We'd all be much "safer" if everyone used anonymizing services... They can't arrest everyone

This is something a lot of people have some level of understanding and what mixing services should be about. In that for the mere fact of using bitcoin, you are by default wanting to stay anonymous either you using for services or for payment so then I don't see anything wrong in trying to take it further in using mixing services.

It's all part of the post-privacy way of thinking. The whole narrative about having nothing to hide.

When everyone claims that they having nothing to hide, people who want to keep some form of privacy are automatically suspicious. Private individuals become more and more transparent while governments and corporations become more and more opaque, while ideally it should be the other way round. You can see a similar way of thinking surrounding the TOR browser.

[BTCforJoe]

It is a total fallacy that only criminals use Bitcoin and Bitcoin mixers... It is just FUD being spread by "enforcement" agencies concerned that their job is being made harder.

They are attempting to paint Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency as the devil to convince law makers to give them all sorts of extra powers...

The 1% get a bit nervous when the peons find new ways to circumvent their systems (fiat banking) and start to discover ways to cut them out of the loop.

Besides, if everyone is using a mixer, are they going to accuse everyone of being a criminal? We'd all be much "safer" if everyone used anonymizing services... They can't arrest everyone

This is something a lot of people have some level of understanding and what mixing services should be about. In that for the mere fact of using bitcoin, you are by default wanting to stay anonymous either you using for services or for payment so then I don't see anything wrong in trying to take it further in using mixing services.

It's all part of the post-privacy way of thinking. The whole narrative about having nothing to hide.

When everyone claims that they having nothing to hide, people who want to keep some form of privacy are automatically suspicious. Private individuals become more and more transparent while governments and corporations become more and more opaque, while ideally it should be the other way round. You can see a similar way of thinking surrounding the TOR browser.

Agreed. It's the same thing with wanting to keep your information private when someone asks you how much money you have in your bank account. It's none of their business. Me wanting to mix my bitcoin has nothing to do with legalities or trying to hide something; it has to do with me not wanting to expose to the world how much any given address holds at any given time. While I love the fact that Bitcoin operates on a PUBLIC ledger (unlike the private ledgers that banks use), I don't need everybody to know how much I hodl.

[x31337]

just curious, am i receiving someone else dirty coins after the mixing?

[OmegaStarScream]

just curious, am i receiving someone else dirty coins after the mixing?

You are not, the addresses you receive from are funded once and once only I believe and when you ask for the withdrawal they are sent to you, the addresses are pre-funded so I doubt you are getting anyone else bitcoins.

[LoyceV]

just curious, am i receiving someone else dirty coins after the mixing?

You are not, the addresses you receive from are funded once and once only I believe and when you ask for the withdrawal they are sent to you, the addresses are pre-funded so I doubt you are getting anyone else bitcoins.

He's asking if the coins he receives could have been used before by someone who has more to hide than himself. The answer is of course yes. Bitcoins are not newly created by ChipMixer, and your Bitcoins are not destroyed by ChipMixer after receiving them. But that's no different than when you withdraw cash from an ATM, or even receive money on your bank: money transfers hands a lot, and whoever owned it before you has nothing to do with you anymore.

Example: Every British bank note is contaminated by cocaine within weeks of entering circulation

[magneto]

just curious, am i receiving someone else dirty coins after the mixing?

There is definitely a possibility that this could happen. But through the use of mixing your coins with chips you are significantly reducing the risk of this happening. There is very little chance anyone can just look at blockchain records and figure out that this chip belonged to you, and is cashed out to x address. There is even less chance of you being accused of using other people's dirty funds when you use chipmixer.

Even if you do find yourself receiving someone else's "dirty" mixed coins, it's not your fault. You can easily prove that your coins were mixed(chips come in regular sizes, makes this easier to prove as well).

In the end, almost all bitcoins can be traced to "dirty" activity. There is really no clean bitcoin if you think about it. If you receive a bitcoin transaction from someone there is probably just as much a probability that the coins are "dirty", and it'll be easier to trace than if you used a mixer.

[mocacinno]

just curious, am i receiving someone else dirty coins after the mixing?

There is definitely a possibility that this could happen. But through the use of mixing your coins with chips you are significantly reducing the risk of this happening. There is very little chance anyone can just look at blockchain records and figure out that this chip belonged to you, and is cashed out to x address. There is even less chance of you being accused of using other people's dirty funds when you use chipmixer.

Even if you do find yourself receiving someone else's "dirty" mixed coins, it's not your fault. You can easily prove that your coins were mixed(chips come in regular sizes, makes this easier to prove as well).

In the end, almost all bitcoins can be traced to "dirty" activity. There is really no clean bitcoin if you think about it. If you receive a bitcoin transaction from someone there is probably just as much a probability that the coins are "dirty", and it'll be easier to trace than if you used a mixer.

I agree with most of your post, however, having unconfirmed inputs in a regular size does not prove they were mixed by chipmixer at all... I could easily use some of my unspent outputs in a transaction that generates new outputs with the exact same value as chipmixer's chips...
The proof is the letter chipmixer can give you, signed by them... However, as it has been discussed before, it's not completely sure a judge will allow a signed letter by an anonymous mixer as valid proof.... I know the courts in my country are very bureaucratic and not tech-savvy at all...

[magneto]

just curious, am i receiving someone else dirty coins after the mixing?

There is definitely a possibility that this could happen. But through the use of mixing your coins with chips you are significantly reducing the risk of this happening. There is very little chance anyone can just look at blockchain records and figure out that this chip belonged to you, and is cashed out to x address. There is even less chance of you being accused of using other people's dirty funds when you use chipmixer.

Even if you do find yourself receiving someone else's "dirty" mixed coins, it's not your fault. You can easily prove that your coins were mixed(chips come in regular sizes, makes this easier to prove as well).

In the end, almost all bitcoins can be traced to "dirty" activity. There is really no clean bitcoin if you think about it. If you receive a bitcoin transaction from someone there is probably just as much a probability that the coins are "dirty", and it'll be easier to trace than if you used a mixer.

I agree with most of your post, however, having unconfirmed inputs in a regular size does not prove they were mixed by chipmixer at all... I could easily use some of my unspent outputs in a transaction that generates new outputs with the exact same value as chipmixer's chips...
The proof is the letter chipmixer can give you, signed by them... However, as it has been discussed before, it's not completely sure a judge will allow a signed letter by an anonymous mixer as valid proof.... I know the courts in my country are very bureaucratic and not tech-savvy at all...

True, i guess i've used chipmixer several times myself and the chip values just seem so obvious.

But then again, you'll probably never be called out for receiving someone else's dirty inputs because this kind of stuff happens all the time. It's hard enough to link a pseudo anonymous identifier to a real person(if you take the right precautions), let alone find out the purpose of the transaction on the bitcoin blockchain, especially after you mix your coins.

The main purpose of a mixer is for privacy anyways, so i really don't think you'll encounter any sort of issue with mixing with Chipmixer. You'll have much more risk of getting caught if you use a mixer to buy illegal things than use a mixer and receive dirty coins. Just my opinion.

[ChipMixer]

I agree with most of your post, however, having unconfirmed inputs in a regular size does not prove they were mixed by chipmixer at all... I could easily use some of my unspent outputs in a transaction that generates new outputs with the exact same value as chipmixer's chips...

It does not prove they were mixed by ChipMixer... but maybe they were? Lets say you are a blockchain analytist. You encounter ChipMixer-like output. You assume there is 50% probability it may be ChipMixer, so there is 50% chance no link between input and output. You have just gained some fungibility even when you do not use ChipMixer.

Creating your own chips make blockchain analysis harder. We encourage everybody to do that.

[btcton]

just curious, am i receiving someone else dirty coins after the mixing?

You are not, the addresses you receive from are funded once and once only I believe and when you ask for the withdrawal they are sent to you, the addresses are pre-funded so I doubt you are getting anyone else bitcoins.

He's asking if the coins he receives could have been used before by someone who has more to hide than himself. The answer is of course yes. Bitcoins are not newly created by ChipMixer, and your Bitcoins are not destroyed by ChipMixer after receiving them. But that's no different than when you withdraw cash from an ATM, or even receive money on your bank: money transfers hands a lot, and whoever owned it before you has nothing to do with you anymore.

Example: Every British bank note is contaminated by cocaine within weeks of entering circulation

But with ChipMixer there's more. You can also get the mixer receipt that you are offered when you mix your coins which effectively proves that the coins that you are using were the ones you got from a mixer, practically proving there is no real link (or very improbably at least) between the chips that you got and any previous activity related to those chips. Of course, this shouldn't be necessary, but in the case that you for whatever reason get suspicion by anyone you don't want to be suspected by, having the receipt can help prove you are in no way related to any kind of illegal activity.

[Kyraishi]

I agree with most of your post, however, having unconfirmed inputs in a regular size does not prove they were mixed by chipmixer at all... I could easily use some of my unspent outputs in a transaction that generates new outputs with the exact same value as chipmixer's chips...

It does not prove they were mixed by ChipMixer... but maybe they were? Lets say you are a blockchain analytist. You encounter ChipMixer-like output. You assume there is 50% probability it may be ChipMixer, so there is 50% chance no link between input and output. You have just gained some fungibility even when you do not use ChipMixer.

Creating your own chips make blockchain analysis harder. We encourage everybody to do that.

I 100% agree with you. By using chipmixer you are essentially increasing the fungibility of your bitcoins. There is a risk of your bitcoins 'worth' less or being blocked by exchanges or other entities if they can be easily traced, but using chipmixer avoids direct connections, meaning that interchangeability is improved.

Receiving 'dirty' coins is always possible, and the risk of that happening on chipmixer is no more likely than on other bitcoin mixers, or even if you just received a regular bitcoin transaction without mixing.

@ chipmixer What do you mean by creating our own chips though? You mean off the site, just loading some regular sized chips ourselves?

[ChipMixer]

Receiving 'dirty' coins is always possible

There are two definitions of what is 'dirty' coin.

First definition - dirty coin is an illegal coin. Illegal as in "you cannot accept payment with it, they are not worth anything". Because they were used in a way you do not like. Somebody gambled, somebody brought drugs, somebody invested in ICO / BCC / BCH. Bad man, bad money. Dirty money! Me no want dirty money! Sin!
Governments like to have power to control money. They can create as much fiat as they want. They cannot control Bitcoin. But they can control media and what is said about Bitcoin. It is getting more difficult to say that Bitcoin is money of terrorists and drug dealers becase more and more people invest in Bitcoin and they know they are not terrorist nor drug dealers. Still as with civil forfeiture - if you can invalidate somebodys money, you control their wealth.

Second definition which I use - dirty coin is a coin that is linked to myself. If it was withdrawn from KYC exchange or used to buy things online, somebody may and will use it to spy on me and that is why I need to clean it.

Based on those two definitions, I do not believe in illegal coins and there is no possibility to receive dirty coin out of mixer.

@ chipmixer What do you mean by creating our own chips though? You mean off the site, just loading some regular sized chips ourselves?

Sending chip-sized amount to a single address looks very similar to using ChipMixer. As it may confuse blockchain analysis, it is advisable to try.

[mk4]

I definitely wouldn't want to look suspicious. This might come of as a turnoff for innocent people wanting to use mixers.

Because only a criminal would want some privacy.

I get what you mean. But what I was trying to say is that non-criminals would probably stay away from mixers because of the fear of being suspicious to the feds or whatever government entity. Anyway, maybe I'm just overly paranoid and overthinking stuff  .

[TryNinja]

I definitely wouldn't want to look suspicious. This might come of as a turnoff for innocent people wanting to use mixers.

Because only a criminal would want some privacy.

I get what you mean. But what I was trying to say is that non-criminals would probably stay away from mixers because of the fear of being suspicious to the feds or whatever government entity. Anyway, maybe I'm just overly paranoid and overthinking stuff  .

People shouldn't let their government bully them.

How is acceptable that you can't keep the minimum of privacy because you are "scarred of the feds"? This means that we can't use VPN or a encrypted and safer email provider to be safer online because we would look like a criminal?

If using a service to keep you private is a "strike" for the feds, then there is something wrong.

[OmegaStarScream]

I get what you mean. But what I was trying to say is that non-criminals would probably stay away from mixers because of the fear of being suspicious to the feds or whatever government entity. Anyway, maybe I'm just overly paranoid and overthinking stuff  .

What are the chances that you will get the same dirty coins from the same guy multiple times that it could make the government actually think It's you? even If they do, they should be familiar on how mixers work and without proof, nothing much can be done.

[audaciousbeing]

I definitely wouldn't want to look suspicious. This might come of as a turnoff for innocent people wanting to use mixers.

Because only a criminal would want some privacy.

I get what you mean. But what I was trying to say is that non-criminals would probably stay away from mixers because of the fear of being suspicious to the feds or whatever government entity. Anyway, maybe I'm just overly paranoid and overthinking stuff  .

Non criminals staying away based on your position will give credence to the misconception that mixing services is meant for criminals alone but that will be wrong even if I not been a criminal but value my privacy uses mixing services even if feds comes after me, they would probably do some investigation into my activities before coming at me and if they found nothing incriminating will they still go ahead and also I have not read anywhere that its illegal to send my coins to a mixing service.