My girlfriends house in Germany

[psybits]

Bidding 44.444 BTC.

Starting price lets say 10 BTC in increment's of 1

[bitcoin_bob]

Why can't you just keep using this thread? So what if there is a bunch of mess earlier on. Just pick up and continue with the auction as normal. List a summary of previous bids and there you go.

because there is so much thread people are not reading the entire post before bidding, and it is confusing some people. Hence the reason I've been asked about denkmalschutz 5 times.

[nelisky]

2 things you need to do to prevent that; consistently up to date original post (so I can quickly see a FAQ with the denkmalschutz status) including auction terms, date and time of end and current highest bid. That and bump your thread with bid acceptance and daily time to end warnings.

[bitcoin_bob]

2 things you need to do to prevent that; consistently up to date original post (so I can quickly see a FAQ with the denkmalschutz status) including auction terms, date and time of end and current highest bid. That and bump your thread with bid acceptance and daily time to end warnings.

Agreed, I will do this. This is my first time trying to auction in a forum, so learning fast.....

New post in the auction thread is here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=199199.0

Good luck bidding people!

[nelisky]

heh, I actually meant reusing this thread, no need to pollute the forum with yet another one. But hey, whatever works...

[Jobe7]

Dear OP (Bitcoin Bob),

I've been reading through this very interesting thread, and applaud you and your girlfriend.

BUT ... it all seems very backwards ... in my minds eye its YOU that should be demanding escrow ...

Escrow isn't just a protection for the buyer, its also for the seller. And in a house sale, as you've rightly pointed out, the lawyer acts as the escrow for the sale and signatures, etc. That is perfectly fine for the buyer (its a bit confusing that others don't see this, but I guess they're not used to dealing with lawyers or issues like this).

My concern is yourself and your girlfriend. How are you protecting yourself in this sale? It is a simple case for a seller to say they sent the money and then state that you must have transferred the money away already, but they DID in fact pay you (not). But they have the signed documents, etc, and will have the house..

Might I suggest the following (assuming no escrow to protect yourself):

1. Get the buyer to state the address of the wallet they'll be paying from.
2. Make sure the btc is there and make the buyer aware you're checking.
2a. Make the buyer send you 1 Satoshi to confirm its their wallet (0.0000001 btc in case you didn't know)
3. State the address of the wallet that they need to pay into.
4. And make this all very clear on paper, possibly drawing up a tiny contract to highlight such points.
5. Upon payment, check wallet, etc, the buyer now can't 'pretend' they've paid you, and that you know the money is there.

Make sure you protect yours.

[bitcoin_bob]

Dear OP (Bitcoin Bob),

I've been reading through this very interesting thread, and applaud you and your girlfriend.

BUT ... it all seems very backwards ... in my minds eye its YOU that should be demanding escrow ...

Escrow isn't just a protection for the buyer, its also for the seller. And in a house sale, as you've rightly pointed out, the lawyer acts as the escrow for the sale and signatures, etc. That is perfectly fine for the buyer (its a bit confusing that others don't see this, but I guess they're not used to dealing with lawyers or issues like this).

My concern is yourself and your girlfriend. How are you protecting yourself in this sale? It is a simple case for a seller to say they sent the money and then state that you must have transferred the money away already, but they DID in fact pay you (not). But they have the signed documents, etc, and will have the house..

Might I suggest the following (assuming no escrow to protect yourself):

1. Get the buyer to state the address of the wallet they'll be paying from.
2. Make sure the btc is there and make the buyer aware you're checking.
2a. Make the buyer send you 1 Satoshi to confirm its their wallet (0.0000001 btc in case you didn't know)
3. State the address of the wallet that they need to pay into.
4. And make this all very clear on paper, possibly drawing up a tiny contract to highlight such points.
5. Upon payment, check wallet, etc, the buyer now can't 'pretend' they've paid you, and that you know the money is there.

Make sure you protect yours.

Hi Jobe,

thanks for the ideas. I think though, that the escrow idea where a buyer simply sends the funds to someone trusted and they impart the funds to me upon receipt of the all funds paid certificate is probably going to work.

Plus, the benefit of this being a house sale? If someone trys to screw us....I eh....know where they live.....

[Binford 6100]

nice house. too bad village looks like tote hosen stadt, population count decreasing in past years.
but watching the auction thread (the new one) closely to bid if the price is right.

mind to update the rules that a new valid bid extends the deadline by 10 minutes?
edit: rules are fine, you kinda thought of that

[batcoin]

Transplanting discussion from here as per OP's request:

just because someone else has come and polluted your thread doesn't mean he has driven potential bidders away.

Maybe yes, maybe no, but when someone posts in your thread 'I think this is a scam' chances are higher to the Yes factor. Which is totally unfair on my girlfriend to have to take a possible big financial loss simply because someone can't keep their opinions to themselves.

You did not post any price reserve information in your OPs and now you are changing the rules ex post facto.

Auction rules technically state no spamming of the post or I will completely abandon the auction. No one is willing to honour that rule, so am I supposed to (in the words of bateatus) open robe and present ass, simply because people only like the rules that suit them (IE getting a house for no reserve) and not the ones that suit me (Having the courtesy not to pollute my post again to give me fair chance to have a decent auction in peace?)

Could you please point out exactly where in your OP you state that the auction will be cancelled due to spam?

Yes, people like the idea of getting a house for no reserve because that is what was stated in the OP of this auction. Perhaps they made their bids on that basis. Please note the time-stamp of the following quote compared to the previous quote.

AUCTION RULES

The auction stats at 10 BTC and has no reserve. Bidding is in increments of at least 1BTC, but if you say have a total balance of 111.15 btc and you want to throw the lot at me then I will accept it, as long as the previous bid was LESS than 110.

I was thinking of bidding on the house until I saw your previous post. This does not look good at all.

Which are the bones of it- your now pissed off because this isn't going the way you would have like it to and you would not care what happened on this thread if it meant there was an outside chance you would score the house for really really cheap. 

In what was did I indicate that I was pissed off? In what way did I indicate that things are not going the way I would have liked? I have made no bids. I have only raised some concerns, and I will further clarify here, that imposing a reserve on this auction after having explicitly stated that there would be no reserve does not inspire confidence in your trustworthiness. It looks suspiciously like a bait-and-switch.

Regarding the outside chance of scoring a house for really, really cheap. Can you really blame someone for not wanting to have a chance at it when the terms are favourable? Can you really fault a potential customer for being attracted to such a deal? This fault does not lie with the customer, but lies with the original terms of the auction. They sure appear to favour winning the house for a price potentially much lower than market value.

As far as me ever bidding, I said I was thinking about it - toying with the idea, really. I did not say that I would have definitely made a bid. In fact, I have found this auction to be very interesting - potentially an historic event in progress. For someone like me, the idea of warding off the press does not sound like a situation I would enjoy and that is the main reason why I have decided not to make any bids yet. I might have been swayed to bid, but your changing the terms of the auction mid-term only served to reinforce the decision to stay out of the auction.

Are you now not going to honor the deal if his bid ends up being the highest one because of factors outside his control?

Actually I am changing the rules because of factors outside of MY control. People spamming my post.

Like it or lump it, these are the new rules. Feel free to take your frustrations out on the spammers of my post, especially those who decided to not once, but twice throw up accusations of scamming on them. As per the auction rules if this degrades into a discussion and does not stay an auction I reserve the right to just pull it in it's entirety. If you want to discuss there is a perfectly good thread here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196368.0 for all of this where I would be happy to talk about it until the cows come home.

I think the assertion that people are spamming your auction thread is arguable. People exercise due diligence when spending significant sums of their money or taking on a potentially large liability. If you ever hope to sell this house, it might be worth engaging with your potential customers more amicably.

Unilaterally changing the rules of this auction only destroys your credibility and trustworthiness and makes it all the more difficult to sell the house in the long run, unless, of course, you have discussed and agreed upon this change of terms with miernik, your current high bidder.

[bitcoin_bob]

Transplanting discussion from here as per OP's request:

just because someone else has come and polluted your thread doesn't mean he has driven potential bidders away.

Maybe yes, maybe no, but when someone posts in your thread 'I think this is a scam' chances are higher to the Yes factor. Which is totally unfair on my girlfriend to have to take a possible big financial loss simply because someone can't keep their opinions to themselves.

You did not post any price reserve information in your OPs and now you are changing the rules ex post facto.

Auction rules technically state no spamming of the post or I will completely abandon the auction. No one is willing to honour that rule, so am I supposed to (in the words of bateatus) open robe and present ass, simply because people only like the rules that suit them (IE getting a house for no reserve) and not the ones that suit me (Having the courtesy not to pollute my post again to give me fair chance to have a decent auction in peace?)

Could you please point out exactly where in your OP you state that the auction will be cancelled due to spam?

Yes, people like the idea of getting a house for no reserve because that is what was stated in the OP of this auction. Perhaps they made their bids on that basis. Please note the time-stamp of the following quote compared to the previous quote.

AUCTION RULES

The auction stats at 10 BTC and has no reserve. Bidding is in increments of at least 1BTC, but if you say have a total balance of 111.15 btc and you want to throw the lot at me then I will accept it, as long as the previous bid was LESS than 110.

I was thinking of bidding on the house until I saw your previous post. This does not look good at all.

Which are the bones of it- your now pissed off because this isn't going the way you would have like it to and you would not care what happened on this thread if it meant there was an outside chance you would score the house for really really cheap. 

In what was did I indicate that I was pissed off? In what way did I indicate that things are not going the way I would have liked? I have made no bids. I have only raised some concerns, and I will further clarify here, that imposing a reserve on this auction after having explicitly stated that there would be no reserve does not inspire confidence in your trustworthiness. It looks suspiciously like a bait-and-switch.

Regarding the outside chance of scoring a house for really, really cheap. Can you really blame someone for not wanting to have a chance at it when the terms are favourable? Can you really fault a potential customer for being attracted to such a deal? This fault does not lie with the customer, but lies with the original terms of the auction. They sure appear to favour winning the house for a price potentially much lower than market value.

As far as me ever bidding, I said I was thinking about it - toying with the idea, really. I did not say that I would have definitely made a bid. In fact, I have found this auction to be very interesting - potentially an historic event in progress. For someone like me, the idea of warding off the press does not sound like a situation I would enjoy and that is the main reason why I have decided not to make any bids yet. I might have been swayed to bid, but your changing the terms of the auction mid-term only served to reinforce the decision to stay out of the auction.

Are you now not going to honor the deal if his bid ends up being the highest one because of factors outside his control?

Actually I am changing the rules because of factors outside of MY control. People spamming my post.

Like it or lump it, these are the new rules. Feel free to take your frustrations out on the spammers of my post, especially those who decided to not once, but twice throw up accusations of scamming on them. As per the auction rules if this degrades into a discussion and does not stay an auction I reserve the right to just pull it in it's entirety. If you want to discuss there is a perfectly good thread here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196368.0 for all of this where I would be happy to talk about it until the cows come home.

I think the assertion that people are spamming your auction thread is arguable. People exercise due diligence when spending significant sums of their money or taking on a potentially large liability. If you ever hope to sell this house, it might be worth engaging with your potential customers more amicably.

Unilaterally changing the rules of this auction only destroys your credibility and trustworthiness and makes it all the more difficult to sell the house in the long run, unless, of course, you have discussed and agreed upon this change of terms with miernik, your current high bidder.

Hi batcoin,

Thanks for respecting my auction and transferring debates over to this thread. It's really appreciated.

I respect what you are saying, but, see it from my Girlfriends point of view. She pointed out to me an example of a yard sale she once ran, and she was selling a PC. An old couple were going to buy it when someone next to them made a comment 'I would never buy electronics at a yard sale, its probably broken!' So when the old man came back from the car his wife said to him 'oh someone here just said that PC is broken' and nothing she could do, even offering to plug it in and show them, would persuade them that it was not broken. She was just about to sell the pc for $200- which was a fair price- but they were the only people that day who were interested. Eventually, she put it on Kijiji and sold it for $50. So some guys flippant, offhanded comment about a computer he knew nothing about, cost her $150 directly from her pocket.

See people are willing to open their mouth and say rubbish when it does not affect them in any way. Do you think the guy who made that comment would apologise and give her $150 compensation? No. As she says 'people are just jerks'

So....what is now being asked of her, is to do the same thing again but risk potentially tens of thousands of dollars of 'possible' sale. No one has a crystal ball and can say if some people, having seen the word scam, now have lost interest when they might have actually made a bid.

People get confused- read this post and you will see other peoples comments about a falling down wreck, being taken as this house for instance. All these comments add up and create a crap situation which puts off buyers.

I feel myself like a complete ass for having to do such a thing. But it was either that, or pull the auction completely. You say people should do their due diligence- agreed- but where in due diligence does it say that you have the right to slander them a scammer all over their auction? Thats not due diligence that is just 'mouthing off'.

You say I should treat customers amicably- which is fine to say coming from your position, sat with nothing to loose, but when you have started 2 auctions, and the same person spams both of them  no matter what you say, amicability falls to the wayside somewhat.

It all boils down to this- I think my girlfriend is a champion for even considering to do this. I fell crap about having to set a reserve but this is to protect her from the damage of the slanderers. How about you put something up for no reserve, let me slander you a scammer, and then we see what it sells for and you honour the bid? when you, or anyone, has done this, I think they will be in a much better position to judge and comment on the situation at hand.

[Inedible]

@Chang Noi - May I hazard you've never bought a house before?

[batcoin]

Transplanting discussion from here as per OP's request:

just because someone else has come and polluted your thread doesn't mean he has driven potential bidders away.

Maybe yes, maybe no, but when someone posts in your thread 'I think this is a scam' chances are higher to the Yes factor. Which is totally unfair on my girlfriend to have to take a possible big financial loss simply because someone can't keep their opinions to themselves.

You did not post any price reserve information in your OPs and now you are changing the rules ex post facto.

Auction rules technically state no spamming of the post or I will completely abandon the auction. No one is willing to honour that rule, so am I supposed to (in the words of bateatus) open robe and present ass, simply because people only like the rules that suit them (IE getting a house for no reserve) and not the ones that suit me (Having the courtesy not to pollute my post again to give me fair chance to have a decent auction in peace?)

Could you please point out exactly where in your OP you state that the auction will be cancelled due to spam?

Yes, people like the idea of getting a house for no reserve because that is what was stated in the OP of this auction. Perhaps they made their bids on that basis. Please note the time-stamp of the following quote compared to the previous quote.

AUCTION RULES

The auction stats at 10 BTC and has no reserve. Bidding is in increments of at least 1BTC, but if you say have a total balance of 111.15 btc and you want to throw the lot at me then I will accept it, as long as the previous bid was LESS than 110.

I was thinking of bidding on the house until I saw your previous post. This does not look good at all.

Which are the bones of it- your now pissed off because this isn't going the way you would have like it to and you would not care what happened on this thread if it meant there was an outside chance you would score the house for really really cheap. 

In what was did I indicate that I was pissed off? In what way did I indicate that things are not going the way I would have liked? I have made no bids. I have only raised some concerns, and I will further clarify here, that imposing a reserve on this auction after having explicitly stated that there would be no reserve does not inspire confidence in your trustworthiness. It looks suspiciously like a bait-and-switch.

Regarding the outside chance of scoring a house for really, really cheap. Can you really blame someone for not wanting to have a chance at it when the terms are favourable? Can you really fault a potential customer for being attracted to such a deal? This fault does not lie with the customer, but lies with the original terms of the auction. They sure appear to favour winning the house for a price potentially much lower than market value.

As far as me ever bidding, I said I was thinking about it - toying with the idea, really. I did not say that I would have definitely made a bid. In fact, I have found this auction to be very interesting - potentially an historic event in progress. For someone like me, the idea of warding off the press does not sound like a situation I would enjoy and that is the main reason why I have decided not to make any bids yet. I might have been swayed to bid, but your changing the terms of the auction mid-term only served to reinforce the decision to stay out of the auction.

Are you now not going to honor the deal if his bid ends up being the highest one because of factors outside his control?

Actually I am changing the rules because of factors outside of MY control. People spamming my post.

Like it or lump it, these are the new rules. Feel free to take your frustrations out on the spammers of my post, especially those who decided to not once, but twice throw up accusations of scamming on them. As per the auction rules if this degrades into a discussion and does not stay an auction I reserve the right to just pull it in it's entirety. If you want to discuss there is a perfectly good thread here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196368.0 for all of this where I would be happy to talk about it until the cows come home.

I think the assertion that people are spamming your auction thread is arguable. People exercise due diligence when spending significant sums of their money or taking on a potentially large liability. If you ever hope to sell this house, it might be worth engaging with your potential customers more amicably.

Unilaterally changing the rules of this auction only destroys your credibility and trustworthiness and makes it all the more difficult to sell the house in the long run, unless, of course, you have discussed and agreed upon this change of terms with miernik, your current high bidder.

Hi batcoin,

Thanks for respecting my auction and transferring debates over to this thread. It's really appreciated.

I respect what you are saying, but, see it from my Girlfriends point of view. She pointed out to me an example of a yard sale she once ran, and she was selling a PC. An old couple were going to buy it when someone next to them made a comment 'I would never buy electronics at a yard sale, its probably broken!' So when the old man came back from the car his wife said to him 'oh someone here just said that PC is broken' and nothing she could do, even offering to plug it in and show them, would persuade them that it was not broken. She was just about to sell the pc for $200- which was a fair price- but they were the only people that day who were interested. Eventually, she put it on Kijiji and sold it for $50. So some guys flippant, offhanded comment about a computer he knew nothing about, cost her $150 directly from her pocket.

See people are willing to open their mouth and say rubbish when it does not affect them in any way. Do you think the guy who made that comment would apologise and give her $150 compensation? No. As she says 'people are just jerks'

So....what is now being asked of her, is to do the same thing again but risk potentially tens of thousands of dollars of 'possible' sale. No one has a crystal ball and can say if some people, having seen the word scam, now have lost interest when they might have actually made a bid.

People get confused- read this post and you will see other peoples comments about a falling down wreck, being taken as this house for instance. All these comments add up and create a crap situation which puts off buyers.

I feel myself like a complete ass for having to do such a thing. But it was either that, or pull the auction completely. You say people should do their due diligence- agreed- but where in due diligence does it say that you have the right to slander them a scammer all over their auction? Thats not due diligence that is just 'mouthing off'.

You say I should treat customers amicably- which is fine to say coming from your position, sat with nothing to loose, but when you have started 2 auctions, and the same person spams both of them  no matter what you say, amicability falls to the wayside somewhat.

It all boils down to this- I think my girlfriend is a champion for even considering to do this. I fell crap about having to set a reserve but this is to protect her from the damage of the slanderers. How about you put something up for no reserve, let me slander you a scammer, and then we see what it sells for and you honour the bid? when you, or anyone, has done this, I think they will be in a much better position to judge and comment on the situation at hand.

Yeah, I can understand a lot of what you say. I try to take what certain others have to say with a grain of salt. It's a shame when people allow themselves to be influenced by unfounded libellous remarks - if that is indeed the case here. It will be impossible to know for sure if people were turned off by the scam accusations. My main beef with the situation was the change of terms after bids were already made.

[bitcoin_bob]

Yeah, I can understand a lot of what you say. I try to take what certain others have to say with a grain of salt. It's a shame when people allow themselves to be influenced by unfounded libellous remarks - if that is indeed the case here. It will be impossible to know for sure if people were turned off by the scam accusations. My main beef with the situation was the change of terms after bids were already made.

Thanks for being so understanding. To be honest I feel the same way as you, I never wanted to have to take that action but I can't even get hold of Mods for that forum- over a week of begging for one to come to my aid and totally ignored- so I don't have any way to fix it. If there was a way, for instance, to have deleted posts or have a mod clean up the auction then I would have had a lot more confidence in doing something like that.

I also had concerns that the people who were shouting the most 'scam' and trying to put people off buying the property were also the people who claimed to have the most interest in the property. So there is also a worry that said persons may have tried to put off other buyers to keep the price low. How can I tell? trust no one, is supposed to be the Forum motto......

In any case let's see where this goes and how it ends up. I really really want to see a positive result from this.

[Inedible]

After he said I could contact the lawyer to get the address he now says I have to wait until Monday.

There are red flags everywhere.

If you genuinely believe it to be a scam you won't be bidding, will you and if you do bit, it'll surely be for at least the reserve amount?

[El Cabron]

After he said I could contact the lawyer to get the address he now says I have to wait until Monday.

There are red flags everywhere.

If you genuinely believe it to be a scam you won't be bidding, will you and if you do bit, it'll surely be for at least the reserve amount?

I was able to confirm the address and some other information (without OPs help!). The house seems to be for sale and what he has said about the house seems to be true. I had to have a guy in Germany do this for me. The OP not giving me this information when he said he would just cost me more money and time.

There is not a reserve on the auction, he can't change the rules after the fact. If so he needs to pay me for the time I spent trying to verify his vague claims. The no reserve is what attracted me to this in the first place. The house is not worth 150 BTC and will never sell for that.

Honestly I think the auction should just be redone after he makes public the address and ways to confirm his story. Just do it again for 7 days with no reserve. However that might only be up to whoever wins this auction as OP has said he will sell no matter what and it is binding.

For OP to not sell the house would be trolling/scamming    Hopefully whoever wins lets the poor guy have a second go now that he understands what is needed. Address, clear info on escrow, lawyers contact info, stuff like that.

Peace

[Inedible]

I was able to confirm the address and some other information (without OPs help!). The house seems to be for sale and what he has said about the house seems to be true. I had to have a guy in Germany do this for me. The OP not giving me this information when he said he would just cost me more money and time.

He probably assumed you were a troll much like you assumed he was a scammer. I guess that's fair play.

There is not a reserve on the auction, he can't change the rules after the fact.

Seems like he has and he's given his reasons. Seems like you've changed your mind too and you've given your reasons.

You're both looking pretty similar to me right now.

If so he needs to pay me for the time I spent trying to verify his vague claims. The no reserve is what attracted me to this in the first place. The house is not worth 150 BTC and will never sell for that.

I'm sure he'd pay for your time if you'd entered into some sort of agreement.

For OP to not sell the house would be trolling/scamming

Seriously? 


I get buying a house is big and scary but you seem to be overreacting a lot. If you can't trust your lawyer then it doesn't matter if you have escrow or not - your contracts could end up being worth nothing. You're going to need a lawyer to audit your first lawyer...

The OP changing the terms of the deal is definitely bad in my opinion but reading his reasons it's not entirely unreasonable.

You kicked up a huge storm and now you're backing down without an apology saying that he was being straight all along but then finally you go back to 'scammer' again? I mean, I've read your posts for years and you come across as a pretty reasonable person most of the time so I just don't get why you're behaving like this.

[Inedible]

I can't apologize to the OP because he did not send me the information I requested. Information he said he would send. The guy was acting like a scammer and I was honestest and expressed why I thought this to be the case.

He still might be a scammer. He has not verified the address or shown any evidence that he has the right to sell the house. However I now know enough about the house to be willing to pay my lawyer to look at documents sent by the OP (if they ever are).

There is no reason why OP should not have been able to give me the address of the house when he said he would. Who sells a house with out giving the address anyway?

Also trying to do this with no escrow? I mean come on.

I think the guy might be a noob and not a scammer. He really should have lurked more, or asked about running an auction here before trying to sell a house with no reserve and no information about it other than some pics and what village it is located in.

He can assume I am a troll but he still needs to follow the rules of his auction. Asking for things like an address, lawyers contact info, and if he will use escrow is not really trolling in my book but he might think so.

I am being like this because I have talked to many people in Germany about this house and have spent a large amount of time (and some money) trying to figure out if this would be a good investment. I am upset at OP because he claimed there was no reserve and he claimed he would give me information, that he has not. It seems my time is now wasted cuz now that I know where the house is and the value of the house it is not worth close to 150 BTC.

Just so anyone else reading is clear. We both know that OP is happy to escrow. This is just continuation of discussion of the escrow issue.

Escrow isn't needed because there are lawyers present. For fraud to happen here the lawyers would need to commit it. I'm not sure you appreciate this so asking for escrow seems a little unusual to me. (This combined with the fact that you think the property owner needs to be present to sell it is why I assumed you'd never purchased property before.)

You wouldn't be apologising because he didn't send information. You'd be apologising because you called him a scammer and then realised he wasn't.

If you still think he's potentially a scammer, why bid?

I can appreciate that if someone called me a scammer I'd be reluctant to provide them with information that could potentially leave me vulnerable.

Now you accept that the guy might be a 'noob' and not a scammer so why take such a strong stance from the outset?

It looks to me like you're a bit new to buying property too but I would never assume you were a scammer because of it.

I get that you're upset but can you see why others might be upset at you?

[Welsh]

@Chang Noi - May I hazard you've never bought a house before?

In the USA and in Thailand.

However never with BTC, never without knowing the address of the house, or the phone number of the lawyer.

To have an auction to sell a house online in a week with BTC both the address of the house and the contact information of the lawyer should be provided.

I could understand you are thinking this but I also said, you can call the lawyer... 

...if you dont trust, call the lawyer, see it is true, and then make apologies on the forum.

After he said I could contact the lawyer to get the address he now says I have to wait until Monday.

There are red flags everywhere.

Maybe the lawyer doesn't work on weekends, haha.

I wish you the best of luck and hope this isn't a scam, I have been following all the posts.
I would want identification of the OP, and meet up in person, with your and his lawyer.

But, the sellers story does seem to make sense and I believe that he is actually generally trying to sell the house, and not run away with your money.

[Inedible]

If he sells the property in the auction then he will not be a scammer and I will apologize.

OP wants the BTC converted into Euro right away. To do that OP should prove he has the house before someone takes the conversion risk. I still think he might be a scammer but I am willing to take that risk to see if he will sell the property that he claims he has. I will take the conversion risk on only his word only. He has given us nothing else (other than some photos).

He and you might be upset that I think he might be a scammer but when someone asks you to sell BTC or transfer them just cuz he claims he will sell the house is silly.

If the guy is too scared to list the address of the house online, then he should really not be selling a house online. his behavior was and still is highly questionable. It is better to error on the side of carefulness on this forum because history has shown us that new accounts with too good to be true offers are 98% of the time a scam.

I highly doubt he will sell the property and suspect that new outrageous reserve is only a cover to avoid having to show any documents in the future.

Anyway like I said, if he keeps his word and sell it I will apologize. Time will tell.

The suggestion to conversion to Euro was only after other posters suggested it. That step can be done AFTER missives have been concluded. It's no different if it was cash. The cash is only handed over once the missives are concluded too.

I'm not upset (OP might be) - I just want Bitcoin to be a friendly environment where people can communicate/conduct business in a civil manner. Right now we're scaring plenty of 'noobs' away. Everyone needs to start somewhere.

No-one is asking you to transfer your Bitcoin/currency unless you and your lawyer is satisfied but if you start by screaming 'scammer' people naturally become defensive.

I don't yet think OP's behaviour is suspicious. I think if he's not someone that's familiar with forum culture he's going to be more guarded than we will be.

Sure, I agree that there's a need for the address details but instinctively I don't feel I want to post my property address even if I were selling yet logically I know I need to. There's just something uncomfortable about it. Would I be happy to do so in PM? Sure - I guess that's the minimum requirement.

Like you, I guess he's erring on the side of caution and you're right - you really do need to be careful on these forums but does no-one consider that it's possible to make mistakes and not be a scammer?

For anyone buying/selling online - always be careful. Do your due diligence. Warn others and point out dangers.

Calling people scammer so easily doesn't help anyone though. It just makes this a niche community that's intolerant of people willing to take a punt on Bitcoin.


Edit: P.S. I have nothing against you (I enjoy many of your posts) - I just don't understand how this thread descended into cries of scammer so quickly after such a promising start.

[El Cabron]

In a few days we will see if he is a scammer or not. I'm ready to apologize and review my ways if he does go ahead and sell the house.

Honestly I have probably been scammed more than anyone on these forums and I think the odds of him not being a scammer is very small.

Clearly I'm willing to risk my reputation on it.

We will see if he sells.