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Author Topic: Why hasn't any government stopped Bitcoin?  (Read 10597 times)
w0lverine
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June 18, 2017, 12:53:17 AM
 #1

At the early stages Russia ruled it as illegal, China outlawed all withdrawals and some other country also spoke against it. But now everything seem to be smoothing up at least on the government side. Surely Bitcoin must be seen as challenging their authority. Is there something I am failing to see? All it would take is a 51% attack or a new law.

A free world that we are in control of.
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June 18, 2017, 01:57:47 AM
 #2

Perhaps with such rapid growth and popularity and by seeing the enormous potential of bitcoin.
it attracts the attention of governments to give statements about the legality of bitcoin.
Although currently not many countries are adopting bitcoin and declare about its legality but it is proven that bitcoin can be a good innovator for the development of digital currency.
And with bitcoin declaration as the official payment instrument, it is necessary to revise finance law on bitcoin services for countries that have declared their Legality.

   
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June 19, 2017, 07:51:38 AM
 #3

There is indeed a changing view of many governments, the money managers, politicians and the media towards Bitcoin. What was considered to be outright scam and dangerous is now becoming almost the darling of the investment world and the press. Soon, Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies would be enjoying the praises and positive feedback coming from these people.

Now, the question on my mind is this: Can the government really stopped Bitcoin? Yes, they can try but in the end they won't succeed because Bitcoin is also representing a very good technology which even the government can use. Why would you kill something which can be beneficial and quite revolutionary and you can use it in the future?

There are many benefits in allowing Bitcoin to flourish because blockchain technology can attract new investors and new money into the table. Governments are after new investments that can hopefully create more jobs and create a domino effect on the economy.

In the end, they will realize that it can be a win-win situation and for politicians it can even help propel their own self-vested interests politically and economically. Now, how cool is that?

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June 19, 2017, 03:58:13 PM
 #4

At the early stages Russia ruled it as illegal, China outlawed all withdrawals and some other country also spoke against it. But now everything seem to be smoothing up at least on the government side. Surely Bitcoin must be seen as challenging their authority. Is there something I am failing to see? All it would take is a 51% attack or a new law.

Governments have done enough to dissuade common people from using BItcoin extensively. Being charged with operating unlicensed money changing businesses is a possibility if you engage in cash-bitcoin conversion.
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June 19, 2017, 07:24:29 PM
 #5

At the early stages Russia ruled it as illegal, China outlawed all withdrawals and some other country also spoke against it. But now everything seem to be smoothing up at least on the government side. Surely Bitcoin must be seen as challenging their authority. Is there something I am failing to see? All it would take is a 51% attack or a new law.

Simply, Bitcoin is currently a decentralized open-source voluntary p2p network.
Each of the above terms prevents specific legal actions from occurring to the network.

For example:
(1)decentralized: since the validator node network is decentralized among thousands
of individuals in thousands of locations, it is not possible to shut down each one in all
jurisdictions at the same time without shutting down the internet for the whole world (Miner
nodes are no longer decentralized and are now majority controlled by state actors, such as
in China). This vector of regulation is only effective if the validator node network is disbanded
or becomes too burdensome for average people to maintain in diverse locations, otherwise this
regulation vector is not effective.

(2)open-source: since the code for Bitcoin is open and not considered proprietary,
anyone can copy and implement the code anywhere at anytime for free and anyone could
participate with code changes. In this way, the code is not controlled by any one person or
entity, and the only entity that could be legal regulated is where the code is maintained
(currently GitHub). There are many copies elsewhere and this vector of regulation is not very
effective, especially with decentralized nodes who also maintain this code.

(3)voluntary: since the network and developers are not paid by a "Bitcoin Development
Group" and all aspects are basically voluntary, there are no legal "responsible parties". This
means that there is no single person that a government could fine/compel/imprison/torture in
order to change or control the network/protocol. All parties from the developers to the users
(no longer true for miners), in theory are voluntary participants who have no liabilities nor
guarantees. This vector of regulation is not effective as long as developers (and users) are
voluntary individuals who are not associated with a company or regulated group and that the
open-source and decentralized node aspect is maintained.

(4)p2p: since the network communicates with decentralized independent nodes
throughout the world and that the token, through the blockchain system, can transact without
trusted parties, individual people are able to perform exchanges without regulatory oversight or
institutions blocking or allowing that transaction. Since Bitcoin was designed to be P2P, it allows
for and sidesteps this vector of regulation of transactions from user to user. This vector of
regulation can only occur on regulated/licensed exchanges.


Ultimately, Bitcoin challenges governmental authority, as designed, and there is nothing they
can currently do about that. But if majority of the decentralized aspects of the system was
destroyed (besides mining) then Bitcoin will fail since it becomes extremely simple to regulate
directly into the protocol itself. There are many areas where Bitcoin could be regulated from, but
only the Miners due to the centralizing and financial aspects of that subsystem, have already or
will soon be fully subject to governmental regulation (when that occurs we leave them behind
with PoW changes to prevent the total destruction and anticipatable oppression that will follow).

What many members of this forum and in the Bitcoin community in general do not understand
(or do not care) is that governments do not support Bitcoin at all. In fact, it is seen as something
that will eventually erode their power and control in many different areas. It blatantly violates
many laws which is only possible due to its design and decentralized independently voluntarily
maintained system. Users/members who argue that governments allow it now or like it because
it improves technological innovation or for tax collection purposes do not understand what is
actually occurring in some governmental circles. Within specific circles, mostly associated with
intelligence groups, Bitcoin is either a threat to themselves or a weapon for themselves.

Most simply, Bitcoin only exists today because Satoshi created a near perfect system designed
to anticipate and outmaneuver vectors of attack or regulation that powerful entities could use.
In this light, Bitcoin really is a masterpiece. An almost near perfect system that makes the current
world system, whether in law or finance, scratch their heads and say "Now what do we do?".
The answer, if decentralization is maintained, is nothing. There is nothing they can do but accept
its use over time and act like they allow us to use it.

The biggest threat to Bitcoin is not high fees or low user adoption, it is the law and regulation.
Users who think it is vice versa are not followers of Satoshi, the Whitepaper, Cypherpunks,
freedom, or anything. They are destroyers of masterpieces, like fundamentalists who destroy
ancient statues and art. They are ignorant of the actual feat that has been performed here as
well as where its true value originates.

Edit: spelling and some lines.

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June 19, 2017, 07:27:30 PM
 #6

Thanks to all advantages that bitcoin does have, big governments like Japan which are techno friendly have accepted it in mass. In fact in Japan there is even a big mall where you can buy things with bitcoin. Next on line is Australia which will try to accommodate bitcoin legally in early July, 1 July to be precise. These moves from such big countries has sparked the interested of many other governments which are quietly thinking of ways to legalize it. India is one of such case. As you can see bitcoin potential is tremendous that's why maybe the governments are being quiet regarding bitcoin now.

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June 19, 2017, 08:43:59 PM
 #7

LOL. How to do this government. Bitcoin don't have any record of this transaction by client. The government don't know where its operate. and Who control this ? The Govt cant not stop this. If govt can if every govt stop internet but its not possible for any body for that Bitcoin never stop. If Possible if the miner stop mining but it also not possible.       
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June 19, 2017, 10:18:31 PM
 #8

Fighting it without any effects is much worse than not doing anything. I'm sure some countries have thought of it, but analysis has proven it to be not worth it.
Bitcoin is not threatening to destabilize the government, so there's no need to fight it and doing so might prove to be futile. How would you stop an online project, that isn't supported by your local servers? You can't go to neighboring countries and start arresting people, and arresting node runners and miners in your country wouldn't stop anything.

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June 20, 2017, 05:34:54 AM
 #9

I think bitcoin has the right to flourish and is equivalent to fiat currency, because of its enormous functionality to the economy of its users in various countries.
Although currently only some countries that successfully adopted bitcoin but with these advances would have a positive impact on the development of bitcoin.
And the government has no right to stop bitcoin activity, because presence of bitcoin doesnt harm any party.

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June 20, 2017, 08:23:41 AM
 #10

Fighting it without any effects is much worse than not doing anything. I'm sure some countries have thought of it, but analysis has proven it to be not worth it.
Bitcoin is not threatening to destabilize the government, so there's no need to fight it and doing so might prove to be futile. How would you stop an online project, that isn't supported by your local servers? You can't go to neighboring countries and start arresting people, and arresting node runners and miners in your country wouldn't stop anything.


Yes You absolutely Right. your every point of view right. The government can't do any think. 
w0lverine
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June 20, 2017, 10:21:37 AM
 #11

(snipped to save space)

Thank you very much for your answer, it is very inspiring and it is refreshing to see someone who believes in a new world order as a potential end game for the blockchain rather than an easy way to make a quick buck.It has been a while since I have seen someone mention the cypherpunk movement.

I have trouble understanding your point on leaving the miners behind by modifying the POW system. How would that go? This is for me the biggest vulnerability of bitcoin, a government taking over as it grows and challenge their supremacy and control over not only the currency system but the whole governance.
What can we do when we reach this point?

A free world that we are in control of.
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June 20, 2017, 06:47:07 PM
 #12

At the early stages Russia ruled it as illegal, China outlawed all withdrawals and some other country also spoke against it. But now everything seem to be smoothing up at least on the government side. Surely Bitcoin must be seen as challenging their authority. Is there something I am failing to see? All it would take is a 51% attack or a new law.

The issue about this legality is that it is getting clearer by the day and the government is wishing it to go away rather its popularity keeps on growing and that's where they have the concern on what they want to really do about it. The reason for the delay from my own view is largely due government yet to find a way to control it and them being preoccupied with more pressing needs to give bitcoin the needed attention.

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June 20, 2017, 06:50:12 PM
 #13

Bitcoin has no centre to attack. There is no single organisation or person that controls Bitcoin and transactions don't go through a central clearing house there is really no way a regulator can stop people from downloading Bitcoin wallets and sending each other bitcoins. Government can only use media as a weapon.
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June 20, 2017, 07:01:15 PM
 #14

Bitcoin has no centre to attack. There is no single organisation or person that controls Bitcoin and transactions don't go through a central clearing house there is really no way a regulator can stop people from downloading Bitcoin wallets and sending each other bitcoins. Government can only use media as a weapon.


Yes You are right the government can do any think. because there are find any think about bitcoin. bitcoin will be stop if the miner stop mining. but the are not possible. government only what happen and what will doing bitcoin. then new revelation in currency world.   
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June 21, 2017, 12:36:58 AM
 #15

At the early stages Russia ruled it as illegal, China outlawed all withdrawals and some other country also spoke against it. But now everything seem to be smoothing up at least on the government side. Surely Bitcoin must be seen as challenging their authority. Is there something I am failing to see? All it would take is a 51% attack or a new law.

If bitcion is legal in your country and the bitcoin can be withdrawn then people doing a job for bitcoin is actually bringing money from other country so it is good for the economy, once the government realize what is the good benefits of bitcoin being legal they will try to control it but as long as bitcoin is being anonymous and has an uncontrollable value then government will try to make some boundaries regarding of how it is being used. Maybe they're in the process of legalizing or making it illegal and they don't want to make some issues regarding it so it is not being announced and keeping it away from media.

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June 21, 2017, 12:43:57 AM
 #16

they already have pretty much, by regulating it.

bitcoin should have been indifferent to gov, kinda the whole point, but yeah now all these wannabes entrepreneurial types  have poisoned it enough to allow windows to regulate it.
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June 21, 2017, 12:47:01 AM
 #17

Bitcoin has no centre to attack. There is no single organisation or person that controls Bitcoin and transactions don't go through a central clearing house there is really no way a regulator can stop people from downloading Bitcoin wallets and sending each other bitcoins. Government can only use media as a weapon.

Thats so true, and besides bitcoin is the initiative of people who wants a decentralized system away from government control. All the the government can do is to regulate but I doubt if the can regulate 100%.

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June 21, 2017, 12:49:33 AM
 #18

Bitcoin has no centre to attack. There is no single organisation or person that controls Bitcoin and transactions don't go through a central clearing house there is really no way a regulator can stop people from downloading Bitcoin wallets and sending each other bitcoins. Government can only use media as a weapon.

keep telling yourself that  Roll Eyes

no centre of attack; so no core devs  Huh no centralised mining pools  Huh no centralised exchanges  Huh
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June 21, 2017, 03:17:27 AM
 #19

Bitcoin has no centre to attack. There is no single organisation or person that controls Bitcoin and transactions don't go through a central clearing house there is really no way a regulator can stop people from downloading Bitcoin wallets and sending each other bitcoins. Government can only use media as a weapon.

keep telling yourself that  Roll Eyes

no centre of attack; so no core devs  Huh no centralised mining pools  Huh no centralised exchanges  Huh

Yes exactly, the biggest issue here is the centralisation of miners.
What can we do to avoid that? Everything has become so political in the Bitcoin world

How can we distance ourselves from being ruled by the miners and how can we protect the network from a 51%?
I miss the good old times when we were all united.

A free world that we are in control of.
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June 21, 2017, 04:16:16 AM
 #20

(snipped to save space)

Thank you very much for your answer, it is very inspiring and it is refreshing to see someone who believes in a new world order as a potential end game for the blockchain rather than an easy way to make a quick buck.It has been a while since I have seen someone mention the cypherpunk movement.

Depending on how you define "new world order" I agree.
Cypherpunks basically believe that through certain mechanisms and coding, the people
can be protected from institutions that have slowly become corrupted or malicious to
those that they originally represented or led. When fully established, many things that
we consider today to be normal, like privacy and certain rights, will be seen as suspicious,
not important, and if performed, worthy of imprisonment or torture. As technology
improves and evolves over time, it is inevitable that those improvements will be used
against the people to the point in which they will become no different than watched slaves
who shortly become guilty until proven innocent. At that time, humans will only exist to
perpetuate that future totalitarian system and their controller's power. Those humans will
never again have the ability to overthrow them and institute a free and fair government/
society. The belief of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness will be a pipe dream.

Cypherpunks, IMO, are the last group of freedom fighters who have the capability
and means to prevent that potential future oppression from actualizing. They are the
final safety valve that releases from time to time to counter balance and prevent that
potential future. Bitcoin, in this light, is much bigger than just a financial instrument.
It is a form of redemption that the world will not fully understand until it is actually
needed. For example, in Venezuela, Bitcoin's true need and use has manifested
in our modern day. So, Bitcoin is already changing things and creating a better
tomorrow.



I have trouble understanding your point on leaving the miners behind by modifying the POW system. How would that go? This is for me the biggest vulnerability of bitcoin, a government taking over as it grows and challenge their supremacy and control over not only the currency system but the whole governance.
What can we do when we reach this point?

Simply, if the Miners reach a point where they have become fully corrupted or
compromised, the community can decide to change the Proof of Work algorithm
so that those entities can no longer directly influence the system. In this case, a
new PoW algo will be selected that is ASIC resistant and likely rotated with other
algos so that centralization of mining power becomes harder to perform in short
time frames. It will not be perfect, but it is highly acceptable over a Bitcoin blockchain
that is regulated, mandates blacklisting of certain coins, ID registering and tagging of
addresses, and any other restrictive or oppressive aspects you can dream up.

This will be performed by a hardfork, where the new protocol/chain will have this
new PoW algo. If governments take control of mining facilities, which is not far
fetched and very likely, especially in countries such as China, we will just flip them the
bird and leave them on the old chain with the old protocol. If Miners do not resists
governmental attempts at control or directly regulating their block work, and choose
to play ball with them, they have chosen their side and we no longer are bound to
preserve their financial investments. In fact, we will proudly brick those investments.

When Satoshi created decentralized mining with the dream of 1 CPU = 1 Vote, he
assumed that potential governmental attack vector was covered since it disbursed
the liabilities over the whole world and through hundreds to thousands of decentralized
individuals. Since that did not develop as he desired (centralization happened faster than
he thought possible), if Miners willingly (or unwillingly) become compromised today, we
just adapt and move forward without those compromised systems. We will then
participate on a free chain like today. If it happens again over time, we will just hardfork
again. The governments can keep trying to regulate ortake control, but ultimately it will
always be futile. As Bitcoin is designed, it must continually evade all forms of capture,
whether from internal parties or external ones.

I support a decentralized & unregulatable ledger first, with safe scaling over time.
Request a signed message if you are associating with anyone claiming to be me.
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