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Author Topic: Why hasn't any government stopped Bitcoin?  (Read 10081 times)
w0lverine
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June 18, 2017, 12:53:17 AM
 #1

At the early stages Russia ruled it as illegal, China outlawed all withdrawals and some other country also spoke against it. But now everything seem to be smoothing up at least on the government side. Surely Bitcoin must be seen as challenging their authority. Is there something I am failing to see? All it would take is a 51% attack or a new law.

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June 18, 2017, 01:57:47 AM
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Perhaps with such rapid growth and popularity and by seeing the enormous potential of bitcoin.
it attracts the attention of governments to give statements about the legality of bitcoin.
Although currently not many countries are adopting bitcoin and declare about its legality but it is proven that bitcoin can be a good innovator for the development of digital currency.
And with bitcoin declaration as the official payment instrument, it is necessary to revise finance law on bitcoin services for countries that have declared their Legality.

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June 19, 2017, 07:51:38 AM
 #3

There is indeed a changing view of many governments, the money managers, politicians and the media towards Bitcoin. What was considered to be outright scam and dangerous is now becoming almost the darling of the investment world and the press. Soon, Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies would be enjoying the praises and positive feedback coming from these people.

Now, the question on my mind is this: Can the government really stopped Bitcoin? Yes, they can try but in the end they won't succeed because Bitcoin is also representing a very good technology which even the government can use. Why would you kill something which can be beneficial and quite revolutionary and you can use it in the future?

There are many benefits in allowing Bitcoin to flourish because blockchain technology can attract new investors and new money into the table. Governments are after new investments that can hopefully create more jobs and create a domino effect on the economy.

In the end, they will realize that it can be a win-win situation and for politicians it can even help propel their own self-vested interests politically and economically. Now, how cool is that?

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June 19, 2017, 03:58:13 PM
 #4

At the early stages Russia ruled it as illegal, China outlawed all withdrawals and some other country also spoke against it. But now everything seem to be smoothing up at least on the government side. Surely Bitcoin must be seen as challenging their authority. Is there something I am failing to see? All it would take is a 51% attack or a new law.

Governments have done enough to dissuade common people from using BItcoin extensively. Being charged with operating unlicensed money changing businesses is a possibility if you engage in cash-bitcoin conversion.
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June 19, 2017, 07:24:29 PM
 #5

At the early stages Russia ruled it as illegal, China outlawed all withdrawals and some other country also spoke against it. But now everything seem to be smoothing up at least on the government side. Surely Bitcoin must be seen as challenging their authority. Is there something I am failing to see? All it would take is a 51% attack or a new law.

Simply, Bitcoin is currently a decentralized open-source voluntary p2p network.
Each of the above terms prevents specific legal actions from occurring to the network.

For example:
(1)decentralized: since the validator node network is decentralized among thousands
of individuals in thousands of locations, it is not possible to shut down each one in all
jurisdictions at the same time without shutting down the internet for the whole world (Miner
nodes are no longer decentralized and are now majority controlled by state actors, such as
in China). This vector of regulation is only effective if the validator node network is disbanded
or becomes too burdensome for average people to maintain in diverse locations, otherwise this
regulation vector is not effective.

(2)open-source: since the code for Bitcoin is open and not considered proprietary,
anyone can copy and implement the code anywhere at anytime for free and anyone could
participate with code changes. In this way, the code is not controlled by any one person or
entity, and the only entity that could be legal regulated is where the code is maintained
(currently GitHub). There are many copies elsewhere and this vector of regulation is not very
effective, especially with decentralized nodes who also maintain this code.

(3)voluntary: since the network and developers are not paid by a "Bitcoin Development
Group" and all aspects are basically voluntary, there are no legal "responsible parties". This
means that there is no single person that a government could fine/compel/imprison/torture in
order to change or control the network/protocol. All parties from the developers to the users
(no longer true for miners), in theory are voluntary participants who have no liabilities nor
guarantees. This vector of regulation is not effective as long as developers (and users) are
voluntary individuals who are not associated with a company or regulated group and that the
open-source and decentralized node aspect is maintained.

(4)p2p: since the network communicates with decentralized independent nodes
throughout the world and that the token, through the blockchain system, can transact without
trusted parties, individual people are able to perform exchanges without regulatory oversight or
institutions blocking or allowing that transaction. Since Bitcoin was designed to be P2P, it allows
for and sidesteps this vector of regulation of transactions from user to user. This vector of
regulation can only occur on regulated/licensed exchanges.


Ultimately, Bitcoin challenges governmental authority, as designed, and there is nothing they
can currently do about that. But if majority of the decentralized aspects of the system was
destroyed (besides mining) then Bitcoin will fail since it becomes extremely simple to regulate
directly into the protocol itself. There are many areas where Bitcoin could be regulated from, but
only the Miners due to the centralizing and financial aspects of that subsystem, have already or
will soon be fully subject to governmental regulation (when that occurs we leave them behind
with PoW changes to prevent the total destruction and anticipatable oppression that will follow).

What many members of this forum and in the Bitcoin community in general do not understand
(or do not care) is that governments do not support Bitcoin at all. In fact, it is seen as something
that will eventually erode their power and control in many different areas. It blatantly violates
many laws which is only possible due to its design and decentralized independently voluntarily
maintained system. Users/members who argue that governments allow it now or like it because
it improves technological innovation or for tax collection purposes do not understand what is
actually occurring in some governmental circles. Within specific circles, mostly associated with
intelligence groups, Bitcoin is either a threat to themselves or a weapon for themselves.

Most simply, Bitcoin only exists today because Satoshi created a near perfect system designed
to anticipate and outmaneuver vectors of attack or regulation that powerful entities could use.
In this light, Bitcoin really is a masterpiece. An almost near perfect system that makes the current
world system, whether in law or finance, scratch their heads and say "Now what do we do?".
The answer, if decentralization is maintained, is nothing. There is nothing they can do but accept
its use over time and act like they allow us to use it.

The biggest threat to Bitcoin is not high fees or low user adoption, it is the law and regulation.
Users who think it is vice versa are not followers of Satoshi, the Whitepaper, Cypherpunks,
freedom, or anything. They are destroyers of masterpieces, like fundamentalists who destroy
ancient statues and art. They are ignorant of the actual feat that has been performed here as
well as where its true value originates.

Edit: spelling and some lines.

I support a decentralized & unregulatable ledger first, with safe scaling over time.
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June 19, 2017, 07:27:30 PM
 #6

Thanks to all advantages that bitcoin does have, big governments like Japan which are techno friendly have accepted it in mass. In fact in Japan there is even a big mall where you can buy things with bitcoin. Next on line is Australia which will try to accommodate bitcoin legally in early July, 1 July to be precise. These moves from such big countries has sparked the interested of many other governments which are quietly thinking of ways to legalize it. India is one of such case. As you can see bitcoin potential is tremendous that's why maybe the governments are being quiet regarding bitcoin now.

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June 19, 2017, 08:43:59 PM
 #7

LOL. How to do this government. Bitcoin don't have any record of this transaction by client. The government don't know where its operate. and Who control this ? The Govt cant not stop this. If govt can if every govt stop internet but its not possible for any body for that Bitcoin never stop. If Possible if the miner stop mining but it also not possible.       
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June 19, 2017, 10:18:31 PM
 #8

Fighting it without any effects is much worse than not doing anything. I'm sure some countries have thought of it, but analysis has proven it to be not worth it.
Bitcoin is not threatening to destabilize the government, so there's no need to fight it and doing so might prove to be futile. How would you stop an online project, that isn't supported by your local servers? You can't go to neighboring countries and start arresting people, and arresting node runners and miners in your country wouldn't stop anything.

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June 20, 2017, 05:34:54 AM
 #9

I think bitcoin has the right to flourish and is equivalent to fiat currency, because of its enormous functionality to the economy of its users in various countries.
Although currently only some countries that successfully adopted bitcoin but with these advances would have a positive impact on the development of bitcoin.
And the government has no right to stop bitcoin activity, because presence of bitcoin doesnt harm any party.

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June 20, 2017, 08:23:41 AM
 #10

Fighting it without any effects is much worse than not doing anything. I'm sure some countries have thought of it, but analysis has proven it to be not worth it.
Bitcoin is not threatening to destabilize the government, so there's no need to fight it and doing so might prove to be futile. How would you stop an online project, that isn't supported by your local servers? You can't go to neighboring countries and start arresting people, and arresting node runners and miners in your country wouldn't stop anything.


Yes You absolutely Right. your every point of view right. The government can't do any think. 
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June 20, 2017, 10:21:37 AM
 #11

(snipped to save space)

Thank you very much for your answer, it is very inspiring and it is refreshing to see someone who believes in a new world order as a potential end game for the blockchain rather than an easy way to make a quick buck.It has been a while since I have seen someone mention the cypherpunk movement.

I have trouble understanding your point on leaving the miners behind by modifying the POW system. How would that go? This is for me the biggest vulnerability of bitcoin, a government taking over as it grows and challenge their supremacy and control over not only the currency system but the whole governance.
What can we do when we reach this point?

A free world that we are in control of.
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June 20, 2017, 06:47:07 PM
 #12

At the early stages Russia ruled it as illegal, China outlawed all withdrawals and some other country also spoke against it. But now everything seem to be smoothing up at least on the government side. Surely Bitcoin must be seen as challenging their authority. Is there something I am failing to see? All it would take is a 51% attack or a new law.

The issue about this legality is that it is getting clearer by the day and the government is wishing it to go away rather its popularity keeps on growing and that's where they have the concern on what they want to really do about it. The reason for the delay from my own view is largely due government yet to find a way to control it and them being preoccupied with more pressing needs to give bitcoin the needed attention.

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June 20, 2017, 06:50:12 PM
 #13

Bitcoin has no centre to attack. There is no single organisation or person that controls Bitcoin and transactions don't go through a central clearing house there is really no way a regulator can stop people from downloading Bitcoin wallets and sending each other bitcoins. Government can only use media as a weapon.
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June 20, 2017, 07:01:15 PM
 #14

Bitcoin has no centre to attack. There is no single organisation or person that controls Bitcoin and transactions don't go through a central clearing house there is really no way a regulator can stop people from downloading Bitcoin wallets and sending each other bitcoins. Government can only use media as a weapon.


Yes You are right the government can do any think. because there are find any think about bitcoin. bitcoin will be stop if the miner stop mining. but the are not possible. government only what happen and what will doing bitcoin. then new revelation in currency world.   
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June 21, 2017, 12:36:58 AM
 #15

At the early stages Russia ruled it as illegal, China outlawed all withdrawals and some other country also spoke against it. But now everything seem to be smoothing up at least on the government side. Surely Bitcoin must be seen as challenging their authority. Is there something I am failing to see? All it would take is a 51% attack or a new law.

If bitcion is legal in your country and the bitcoin can be withdrawn then people doing a job for bitcoin is actually bringing money from other country so it is good for the economy, once the government realize what is the good benefits of bitcoin being legal they will try to control it but as long as bitcoin is being anonymous and has an uncontrollable value then government will try to make some boundaries regarding of how it is being used. Maybe they're in the process of legalizing or making it illegal and they don't want to make some issues regarding it so it is not being announced and keeping it away from media.

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June 21, 2017, 12:43:57 AM
 #16

they already have pretty much, by regulating it.

bitcoin should have been indifferent to gov, kinda the whole point, but yeah now all these wannabes entrepreneurial types  have poisoned it enough to allow windows to regulate it.
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June 21, 2017, 12:47:01 AM
 #17

Bitcoin has no centre to attack. There is no single organisation or person that controls Bitcoin and transactions don't go through a central clearing house there is really no way a regulator can stop people from downloading Bitcoin wallets and sending each other bitcoins. Government can only use media as a weapon.

Thats so true, and besides bitcoin is the initiative of people who wants a decentralized system away from government control. All the the government can do is to regulate but I doubt if the can regulate 100%.

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June 21, 2017, 12:49:33 AM
 #18

Bitcoin has no centre to attack. There is no single organisation or person that controls Bitcoin and transactions don't go through a central clearing house there is really no way a regulator can stop people from downloading Bitcoin wallets and sending each other bitcoins. Government can only use media as a weapon.

keep telling yourself that  Roll Eyes

no centre of attack; so no core devs  Huh no centralised mining pools  Huh no centralised exchanges  Huh
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June 21, 2017, 03:17:27 AM
 #19

Bitcoin has no centre to attack. There is no single organisation or person that controls Bitcoin and transactions don't go through a central clearing house there is really no way a regulator can stop people from downloading Bitcoin wallets and sending each other bitcoins. Government can only use media as a weapon.

keep telling yourself that  Roll Eyes

no centre of attack; so no core devs  Huh no centralised mining pools  Huh no centralised exchanges  Huh

Yes exactly, the biggest issue here is the centralisation of miners.
What can we do to avoid that? Everything has become so political in the Bitcoin world

How can we distance ourselves from being ruled by the miners and how can we protect the network from a 51%?
I miss the good old times when we were all united.

A free world that we are in control of.
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June 21, 2017, 04:16:16 AM
 #20

(snipped to save space)

Thank you very much for your answer, it is very inspiring and it is refreshing to see someone who believes in a new world order as a potential end game for the blockchain rather than an easy way to make a quick buck.It has been a while since I have seen someone mention the cypherpunk movement.

Depending on how you define "new world order" I agree.
Cypherpunks basically believe that through certain mechanisms and coding, the people
can be protected from institutions that have slowly become corrupted or malicious to
those that they originally represented or led. When fully established, many things that
we consider today to be normal, like privacy and certain rights, will be seen as suspicious,
not important, and if performed, worthy of imprisonment or torture. As technology
improves and evolves over time, it is inevitable that those improvements will be used
against the people to the point in which they will become no different than watched slaves
who shortly become guilty until proven innocent. At that time, humans will only exist to
perpetuate that future totalitarian system and their controller's power. Those humans will
never again have the ability to overthrow them and institute a free and fair government/
society. The belief of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness will be a pipe dream.

Cypherpunks, IMO, are the last group of freedom fighters who have the capability
and means to prevent that potential future oppression from actualizing. They are the
final safety valve that releases from time to time to counter balance and prevent that
potential future. Bitcoin, in this light, is much bigger than just a financial instrument.
It is a form of redemption that the world will not fully understand until it is actually
needed. For example, in Venezuela, Bitcoin's true need and use has manifested
in our modern day. So, Bitcoin is already changing things and creating a better
tomorrow.



I have trouble understanding your point on leaving the miners behind by modifying the POW system. How would that go? This is for me the biggest vulnerability of bitcoin, a government taking over as it grows and challenge their supremacy and control over not only the currency system but the whole governance.
What can we do when we reach this point?

Simply, if the Miners reach a point where they have become fully corrupted or
compromised, the community can decide to change the Proof of Work algorithm
so that those entities can no longer directly influence the system. In this case, a
new PoW algo will be selected that is ASIC resistant and likely rotated with other
algos so that centralization of mining power becomes harder to perform in short
time frames. It will not be perfect, but it is highly acceptable over a Bitcoin blockchain
that is regulated, mandates blacklisting of certain coins, ID registering and tagging of
addresses, and any other restrictive or oppressive aspects you can dream up.

This will be performed by a hardfork, where the new protocol/chain will have this
new PoW algo. If governments take control of mining facilities, which is not far
fetched and very likely, especially in countries such as China, we will just flip them the
bird and leave them on the old chain with the old protocol. If Miners do not resists
governmental attempts at control or directly regulating their block work, and choose
to play ball with them, they have chosen their side and we no longer are bound to
preserve their financial investments. In fact, we will proudly brick those investments.

When Satoshi created decentralized mining with the dream of 1 CPU = 1 Vote, he
assumed that potential governmental attack vector was covered since it disbursed
the liabilities over the whole world and through hundreds to thousands of decentralized
individuals. Since that did not develop as he desired (centralization happened faster than
he thought possible), if Miners willingly (or unwillingly) become compromised today, we
just adapt and move forward without those compromised systems. We will then
participate on a free chain like today. If it happens again over time, we will just hardfork
again. The governments can keep trying to regulate ortake control, but ultimately it will
always be futile. As Bitcoin is designed, it must continually evade all forms of capture,
whether from internal parties or external ones.

I support a decentralized & unregulatable ledger first, with safe scaling over time.
Request a signed message if you are associating with anyone claiming to be me.
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June 21, 2017, 09:29:52 AM
 #21

At the early stages Russia ruled it as illegal, China outlawed all withdrawals and some other country also spoke against it. But now everything seem to be smoothing up at least on the government side. Surely Bitcoin must be seen as challenging their authority. Is there something I am failing to see? All it would take is a 51% attack or a new law.

If a country as advanced as USA and Russia technologically not leaving other countries like China or North Korea behind, could not over the years stopped bitcoin, then that sends a message to other countries that towing that path of destroying it is a waste of time rather they are now improvising by making the environment more difficult for users. And aside that they are now proposing their own crypto currencies its also a way to slow down bitcoin.


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June 21, 2017, 10:53:41 AM
 #22

Bitcoin Never Stop. Then Government can not stop bitcoin because there don't have any control of bitcoin. Recently India give permission to bitcoin. from there bitcoin never stop and it will be usable every ware and every country.

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June 22, 2017, 07:08:05 AM
 #23

The US Gov is already "regulating" it and it's exchanges.

[Suspicious link removed]j.com/articles/irs-crackdown-on-bitcoin-exchange-fuels-privacy-worries-1490623200

In China

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-07/china-launches-bitcoin-crackdown-pboc-will-probe-investor-behavior-and-rectify-misbh

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-06/bitcoin-buyers-eye-beijing-nervously-as-prices-slide-from-record

Plenty of info all over Google.

While, they can't stop it, they can control it.

Gov's will use the blockchain and launch their own digital currencies. Use them, or else.

If you have the balls to break the law and use other coins go for it.

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June 22, 2017, 07:57:53 AM
 #24

You can't stop something that you can't control, put your hands on or restrict. Those countries which could maybe possibly somehow stop it will soon accept bitcoin.
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June 22, 2017, 10:43:54 AM
 #25

If you look at some facts that exist and the development of bitcoin more rapidly certainly not easy to stop the progress of bitcoin by any government for now. Even with the rise of some countries that declare legal bitcoin of course this will make bitcoin stronger.

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June 23, 2017, 05:34:49 AM
 #26

Bitcoin has no centre to attack. There is no single organisation or person that controls Bitcoin and transactions don't go through a central clearing house there is really no way a regulator can stop people from downloading Bitcoin wallets and sending each other bitcoins. Government can only use media as a weapon.

true, but they can hinder the adoption, in many way, by stopping local exchange or closing your bank account, or saying shit like "I put you in jail if i caught you usign bitcoin", some country also do this actually

but i think it would be better for them if they embrance bitcoin, and regulate it like japan did, they would receive a better source of income via additional taxing
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June 23, 2017, 08:38:27 PM
 #27

Because the average daily volume of the forex markets (currency trading) is $5.3 trillion USD, or well over 1,000 times the entire value of the bitcoin market. Bitcoin is an infinitesimal part of the economic system and no government is going to spend resources to stop it. Governments may try to restrict or regulate it, but it’s simply too small to try to stop.
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June 26, 2017, 02:18:35 AM
 #28

The government cant be reckless to make decision, becuase there are so many bitcoin user and the government realize that bitcoin had helped the people and bitcoin could possibly the future system for transaction, if they stopped bitcoin the country could possible being left behind by this technology

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June 29, 2017, 11:18:49 AM
 #29

Because there are several advantages in permitting Bitcoin to embellishment because blockchain technology might attract new stakeholders and new currency into the counter. Governments are subsequently finding new investments that can expectantly generate more careers and generate a cause and effect on the budget.
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June 29, 2017, 11:24:46 AM
 #30

If you look beyond conspiracy theories about the banks and the 1% etc then you will see that governments have no motive to ban bitcoin. They may have initially been afraid it was used solely for scams and illegal trade but ultimately its use has spanned way beyond that.
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July 14, 2017, 06:16:58 PM
 #31

Maybe, because it's not easy to do. Countries like China and Taiwan, which are pretty advanced, tried to stop it but failed. I think it says something.
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July 19, 2017, 01:55:00 AM
 #32

Bitcoin Never Stop. Then Government can not stop bitcoin because there don't have any control of bitcoin. Recently India give permission to bitcoin. from there bitcoin never stop and it will be usable every ware and every country.

In fact, here in the Philippines bitcoin was seen by the government not as money, but as property therefore, it is not subject to legal tender. The government now does not see it as a threat to the economy nor to the system but in fact, they see it as a rising potential for future trades. Also, since converting bitcoin to fiat is famous, some of our retailers even accepts bitcoin as a payment for fees. My friend interviewed the lawyer at our Central Bank (BSP) and discussed their view on bitcoin and they discussed about the future of it being legal at the moment.

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July 19, 2017, 02:25:34 AM
 #33

The fact is Bitcoin is soon to become a bigger phenomenon in financial landscape. Any ban on a digital and decentralised currency like bitcoin isn't very effective to make it count. There are thousands of ways to access Bitcoin in case of ban. Government can't really ignore Bitcoin now. It is gaining grounds in various parts of world and leaving it behind isn't worthwhile for any country. So, now government aren't focusing on banning Bitcoin but regulating it. Thus, having a give and take relation with Bitcoin.

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July 19, 2017, 03:05:40 AM
 #34

In my opinion, i don't think government needs to stop Bitcoin, since bitcoin can be collected through mining
which means mining>electricity usage>electricity bill>profit from electricity>taxes>government.
Government has benefit from bitcoin miners and i think with the progress of bitcoin, Government is now thinking that with the progress and advancement of bitcoin they can benefit from it from the taxes from the companies who provides services such as buying and selling of bitcoin.

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July 19, 2017, 07:43:33 AM
 #35

At the early stages Russia ruled it as illegal, China outlawed all withdrawals and some other country also spoke against it. But now everything seem to be smoothing up at least on the government side. Surely Bitcoin must be seen as challenging their authority. Is there something I am failing to see? All it would take is a 51% attack or a new law.

Most governments are growing to realise that digital assets can do a lot more good than harm.

There has been a lot of education in bringing those in government up to speed on the possibilities of digital assets, as a result there is less resistance.

Some could even suggest that there is somewhat of an arms race among the various governments to establish flourishing digital asset centres, beating other nations to the punch in becoming dominant participants in this new market.

I may be incorrect, but I tend not to believe that Bitcoin challenges the authority of any government. Digital assets in general may actually serve to enhance the authority and abilities of government and ultimately allow for various agencies, globally, to achieve heightened levels of efficiency.

Digital assets allow the human race, in it's entirety, to take another step upwards on the stairway of evolution.

I really struggle to find a segment of society that will be affected negatively by the growth of digital assets.

All of the industries, including the banking sector, can experience advancement due to this new world that has opened up - so long as they adopt a forward thinking approach, and abandon some of their old (and limiting) ideologies

 

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July 19, 2017, 08:29:02 PM
 #36

...
...
I may be incorrect, but I tend not to believe that Bitcoin challenges the authority of any government. Digital assets in general may actually serve to enhance the authority and abilities of government and ultimately allow for various agencies, globally, to achieve heightened levels of efficiency.
...

To be brief, I think your opinion only applies to Bitcoin and Digital Assets if they are
regulated directly by governments or other regulated entities like corporations or
banks
.

If they are not regulated directly, they could operate freely and comparable to things like
in "International Waters". Now imagine if those waters were in the center of your country.
If that occurred, that country and it's government could never regulate or control anything
in reality. The mere existence of that "International Water" within your country is what
prevents enforcement of laws and statutes both off and on the land.

International Waters (Bitcoin) is a double edged sword, and the only means of regulation
currently is by monitoring the beaches (third party exchanges). This is why Bitcoin (and
some Digital Assets) challenges governmental authority now. Those governments are forced
to sit on the beaches and watch and hope to chase down any boats that hit the shore. Prior
to Bitcoin, there was no shore, or water, and no non-enforcement boundary. Its a new
world now and if they could, they would attempt to drain that water body and reclaim it's
lakebed as their own regulatable land again.

So, IMO, your belief is correct if governments/etcs can regulate those Digital Assets. But as
it applies to Bitcoin currently, (and some other CryptoCurrencies/CryptoAssets) its existence
actually undermines governmental authority and powers, the same way "International Water"
does. Their job is to capture us and ours is to circumvent them, this brings a balance to
something that was too imbalanced for too long. If the system won't become healthy,
it must be made so, so that the many don't suffer.

If the Protocol becomes regulatable, the "International Water" becomes an average lake.
Then you will need to get a permit from your masters before you go fishing. But currently,
we don't need a permit to fish and hasn't Satoshi showed us how to be fishers of men?

I support a decentralized & unregulatable ledger first, with safe scaling over time.
Request a signed message if you are associating with anyone claiming to be me.
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July 20, 2017, 05:23:04 AM
 #37

At the early stages Russia ruled it as illegal, China outlawed all withdrawals and some other country also spoke against it. But now everything seem to be smoothing up at least on the government side. Surely Bitcoin must be seen as challenging their authority. Is there something I am failing to see? All it would take is a 51% attack or a new law.

Most governments are growing to realise that digital assets can do a lot more good than harm.

There has been a lot of education in bringing those in government up to speed on the possibilities of digital assets, as a result there is less resistance.

Some could even suggest that there is somewhat of an arms race among the various governments to establish flourishing digital asset centres, beating other nations to the punch in becoming dominant participants in this new market.

I may be incorrect, but I tend not to believe that Bitcoin challenges the authority of any government. Digital assets in general may actually serve to enhance the authority and abilities of government and ultimately allow for various agencies, globally, to achieve heightened levels of efficiency.

Digital assets allow the human race, in it's entirety, to take another step upwards on the stairway of evolution.

I really struggle to find a segment of society that will be affected negatively by the growth of digital assets.

All of the industries, including the banking sector, can experience advancement due to this new world that has opened up - so long as they adopt a forward thinking approach, and abandon some of their old (and limiting) ideologies

Maybe in the future if Bitcoin will really be that famous and everyone knows it, Government will regulate it not now but i think someday Government will take it's steps in order to regulate Bitcoins and make the fiat money more powerful and usable than bitcoins, and probably most banks will not allow BTC overtaking fiat, or in a positive thinking , Maybe in the near future Banks and Government will embrace this changes and Make BTC available in banks ( that will be based on bitcoin network of course.)

But as much as i really think , Government will see BTC as threat specially to Banks.

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July 20, 2017, 04:46:38 PM
 #38

At the early stages Russia ruled it as illegal, China outlawed all withdrawals and some other country also spoke against it. But now everything seem to be smoothing up at least on the government side. Surely Bitcoin must be seen as challenging their authority. Is there something I am failing to see? All it would take is a 51% attack or a new law.

 It isn't so easily answered. Bitcoin is fairly new technology. To completely shut it down would be to impede technological innovation.
Before any decision to remove it completely (less likely to happen), it would have to go through a series of heavy regulation first.
  Bitcoin and blockchain technology opened the door to a digital alternative financial system, free of centralization. It is a gateway that could lead to decentralizing almost everything. Bitcoin operates in a bit of a legal gray area for certain instances. Most of the regulation comes from turning it to fiat, which is regulated. Bitcoins value is determined by a combination of  supply and demand, and the system it's built upon.
If everyone were to drop bitcoin today and move on to something else, it's value becomes nothing.The system in place is collectively agreed upon, the more people that adopt and contribute, the bigger the expansion of system and it's value.
  You can most certainly believe that the big boys (governing bodies) are keeping their eye on this movement and a few are most likely making a profit from it. It is interesting to watch nonetheless, but even more so to participate. Exciting times we are living in my friend.
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July 22, 2017, 11:50:06 AM
 #39

Bitcoin doesn't have any weak point to attack. this is a technology which is not controlled by any organization or government. computers control it, the government has the option to use media otherwise there is no weak end to control it.   
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July 23, 2017, 12:31:57 PM
 #40

At the early stages Russia ruled it as illegal, China outlawed all withdrawals and some other country also spoke against it. But now everything seem to be smoothing up at least on the government side. Surely Bitcoin must be seen as challenging their authority. Is there something I am failing to see? All it would take is a 51% attack or a new law.

What's the issue here is that every government have moved beyond the point of banning bitcoin because they know that is a unachievable task at this time but if they have banned bitcoin, the implementation of making people responsible for flouting such rule also became impossible, then we are now in the point of regulation which is something they are now trying to implement in which without that, we will continue to have freedom unfettered.
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July 23, 2017, 04:51:07 PM
 #41

because goverments do not have enough power to stop something that has been initiated
by globalists-like the transition from fiat money ,for example
cryptocurrencies and bitcoin as the pioneer and the flagship,can't be just banned without repercussions
this would mean the particular country goes agaianst the will of the globalists forces of the world
and also losing out on the prospects of profiting from regulating and taxing of the crypta

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July 26, 2017, 06:52:55 AM
 #42

At the early stages Russia ruled it as illegal, China outlawed all withdrawals and some other country also spoke against it. But now everything seem to be smoothing up at least on the government side. Surely Bitcoin must be seen as challenging their authority. Is there something I am failing to see? All it would take is a 51% attack or a new law.

I think that initially the government was wrong in assessing bitcoin, now in fact they are beginning to legalize the bitcoin that leads them to have to revise the laws they have made earlier to oppose the legality of bitcoin. In the next few years there will be some countries that will follow in their footsteps, I believe this will be a challenge for countries that still underestimate bitcoin.

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August 18, 2017, 11:22:54 AM
 #43

Because any Government has not any power to stopped it. we don't know where bitcoin setup. we don't know any information about controlling power of bitcoin.

at same time any government hasn't any record about bitcoin so how could the government stopped bitcoin .

I think any government want to touch this and want to stopped it.

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August 18, 2017, 12:14:51 PM
 #44

There is simple answer for this . IF you can not stop something from outside then your next best option is to try to control it from inside .
Even if any government tried to stop it what is there options ? there hands is pretty much tied . If they had any chance trust me Bitcoin would have gone from long time now . Bitcoin take the power from banks and give it to people and there is nothing more dangerous than this to any government but they just can not stop it . So the 2 options they have is 1- try to stop it and will probably fail . 2- go along with it and try to control it and that is what they are trying to do right now .


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September 01, 2017, 06:31:49 AM
 #45

The government is bond by the voice of the people if the citizens of that country opposed the stand of the government they will be followed. They can't stopped the one they can't controlle in the first place. Hackers and bitcoin has something in common the used of internet. Government been tracing hackers but failed when in fact there just few people. And bitcoin users are millions of determined people who just want to earned and that's the difference.

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September 01, 2017, 07:42:26 AM
 #46

The government is bond by the voice of the people if the citizens of that country opposed the stand of the government they will be followed. They can't stopped the one they can't controlle in the first place. Hackers and bitcoin has something in common the used of internet. Government been tracing hackers but failed when in fact there just few people. And bitcoin users are millions of determined people who just want to earned and that's the difference.

In any case, more to the point, what is the purpose behind these endeavors to dishearten utilize? Are the reasons and objectives handy and honest to goodness?

Does Bitcoin show a risk to power, control of the household cash supply, acquiring, expansion, remote trade or guardian organizations? Truly and No…

Governments can boycott Bitcoin, however the boycott can't be extremely viable. In this way, normally, they utilize different intends to debilitate Bitcoin proprietorship and exchanging.

Bit by bit, administrators in a few nations are starting to see Bitcoin as a greater amount of an open door than a risk. There might be no compelling reason to discourage natives from embracing Bitcoin, regardless of the possibility that the masses spares or spends it as real put away esteem money and not similarly as an installment instrument.
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September 01, 2017, 09:21:10 AM
 #47

The government is bond by the voice of the people if the citizens of that country opposed the stand of the government they will be followed. They can't stopped the one they can't controlle in the first place. Hackers and bitcoin has something in common the used of internet. Government been tracing hackers but failed when in fact there just few people. And bitcoin users are millions of determined people who just want to earned and that's the difference.

Agreed with you, bitcoin is not only popular among the common people but also people like bill gates has seen tremendous potential in the bitcoins. Government can not ignore the fact and they also can not ignore the extraordinary journey of the bitcoins since its initial days.

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September 06, 2017, 12:30:34 PM
 #48

because it is out of control and cant be hacked
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September 15, 2017, 06:09:59 AM
 #49

The corrupt government officials and greedy bankers were thinking about it all along. But what make it harder for them to just banned it in all parts of the world. It is because of one specific thing "internet", they can't stopped this without switching it off. So it's impossible for them because it would make this world a war zone instantly without internet connection. It is like how can you stop a hurricane when it's on the run.



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September 15, 2017, 06:35:00 AM
 #50

I think btc is now on a verge of going down. I dont mean to be shut down but the price is really going down fast. BTCChina has really high influence over the flow on the market and because even one statement from the Governor of the blockchain there and most people are really in panic and is already taking precautions whether to continue investing on btc or not.

                                     
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September 15, 2017, 07:07:20 AM
 #51

LOL. How to do this government. Bitcoin don't have any record of this transaction by client. The government don't know where its operate. and Who control this ? The Govt cant not stop this. If govt can if every govt stop internet but its not possible for any body for that Bitcoin never stop. If Possible if the miner stop mining but it also not possible.       
That's the revolution starts. Most authority with tyrany won't a new power to comes out. Bitcoin can be a means of new power in economy that shakes their hegemony in the country. In fact, they fail to attack or shut down bitcoin. What they can do ban. Ban bitcoin exchangers, yes they can ban them but ban individual to hold bitcoin? If they can, just do it.

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September 16, 2017, 09:54:54 AM
 #52

In my personal opinion,, the government of each country is just balancing the demand and profitability of bitcoin to its people.. Why would a government lawmaker proposed a bill to stopped or banned bitcoin without giving any solid evidence that it can harm than it can be good to its citizens.. We almost forgot the essence of money,, as long as the money you get is not from illegal transactions and it will benefits you and your family.. I don't see any reason a good public servants will make a stupid act..

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September 16, 2017, 07:22:50 PM
 #53

There's really no reason to try to stop bitcoin. I'm sure governments did their math and it has not only proven to be very difficult and expensive, but also pointless.
Bitcoin is not trying to destabilize governments. It's only giving people the ability to choose the currency they want to be using, it's like another foreign currency to a government. If they are allowing people to buy unstable currencies like some of those African ones, why would they want to stop them from using BTC?

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September 25, 2017, 08:53:16 AM
 #54

There is no reason to stop bitcoin. If the bitcoin will be known and will be legalize, the government will have beneficials beacause bitcoin will pay a tax so that it can help the economy of a country. And bitcoin is very helpful in our daily needs.

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September 25, 2017, 09:34:28 AM
 #55

There is no reason to stop bitcoin. If the bitcoin will be known and will be legalize, the government will have beneficials beacause bitcoin will pay a tax so that it can help the economy of a country. And bitcoin is very helpful in our daily needs.
This is a misconception. The government can certainly come up with a method how to levy a tax on the use of bitcoins, but it is not important. With the advent of cryptocurrency government loses control over citizens, and it scares them more than the budget deficit.

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September 25, 2017, 11:13:34 AM
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Governments probably cannot shut it down through "technical" means, i.e. hacking the system, thus crashing the value or preventing it from working
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September 25, 2017, 01:11:13 PM
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At the outset, governments worldwide tried to stop the proliferation of Bitcoins. However, it cannot be denied that the more they try to topple down said cryptocurrency, the more its popularity increases. The impact of its popularity has its highs and lows but the former obviously make it attractive to investors who desire to take control of their money. Thus, the massive growth of Bitcoins in a small amount of time has substantially affected the economy worldwide. With this, governments take a shot at what was once just an idea but now seems to be an invincible asset to deal with.

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September 27, 2017, 08:36:40 AM
 #58

LOL. How to do this government. Bitcoin don't have any record of this transaction by client. The government don't know where its operate. and Who control this ? The Govt cant not stop this. If govt can if every govt stop internet but its not possible for any body for that Bitcoin never stop. If Possible if the miner stop mining but it also not possible.       

yeah, bitcoin is decantralized and no one controls or holds it therfore no one can declare a law or regulation to it not even the government and banks. bitcoin is unstopable and no one in this world can stop it or restrict it unless theres a total black out and internet have been shutdown.

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September 27, 2017, 10:01:41 AM
 #59

LOL. How to do this government. Bitcoin don't have any record of this transaction by client. The government don't know where its operate. and Who control this ? The Govt cant not stop this. If govt can if every govt stop internet but its not possible for any body for that Bitcoin never stop. If Possible if the miner stop mining but it also not possible.       

yeah, bitcoin is decantralized and no one controls or holds it therfore no one can declare a law or regulation to it not even the government and banks. bitcoin is unstopable and no one in this world can stop it or restrict it unless theres a total black out and internet have been shutdown.
This is not so. To stop bitcoin the government is sufficient to limit the exchange of bitcoins for Fiat. This is the weakest point of all users of bitcoin. It seems to me that the government now wants to deal with bitcoins because they think how to install a control for users to their hands to earn money.

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September 29, 2017, 04:26:05 AM
 #60

The government is scared of decentralized currency; however, if they lose out on the opportunity and ban it, then they lose out on billions. I think they're just trying to get the tech together to integrate, regulate, and/or track.
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September 29, 2017, 09:37:34 AM
 #61

At the early stages Russia ruled it as illegal, China outlawed all withdrawals and some other country also spoke against it. But now everything seem to be smoothing up at least on the government side. Surely Bitcoin must be seen as challenging their authority. Is there something I am failing to see? All it would take is a 51% attack or a new law.

I think the government can actually take advantage of bitcoin. if bitcoin in a country is legalized it will invite foreign investors to come and invest their money into the country in bitcoin form, if this happens it will have an impact on the growth of the country's economy.
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September 29, 2017, 10:22:04 AM
 #62

At the early stages Russia ruled it as illegal, China outlawed all withdrawals and some other country also spoke against it. But now everything seem to be smoothing up at least on the government side. Surely Bitcoin must be seen as challenging their authority. Is there something I am failing to see? All it would take is a 51% attack or a new law.

I think the government can actually take advantage of bitcoin. if bitcoin in a country is legalized it will invite foreign investors to come and invest their money into the country in bitcoin form, if this happens it will have an impact on the growth of the country's economy.
You are wrong. Bitcoin users are not investors. There are a small number of investments made by citizens of countries that exchange bitcoin to local currency. It can be considered an investment but they are too small to participate in the statistics. In General, the government is the enemy of bitcoin.

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September 29, 2017, 10:51:37 AM
 #63

I think because its so conveniece that bitcoin brings and here we dont have any problem if we save our money like other bank,the only problem here is the volatile price of bitcoin but base in the past 6 years of bitcoin i think the price is no more problem even its volatile

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September 29, 2017, 11:03:03 AM
 #64

Sorry, But bitcoin has been stopped and banned in many countries which include Bolivia, Ecuador, Kyrgyzstan, and Bangladesh till now. But if we compare this with the countries where Bitcoin is illegal, that is way much more than it. Moreover, in the recent times ICO may be banned in the countries like China and South Korea but Bitcoin is still ruling because as for the government also realize its potential and knows that it can also help in the improvement of their country in some way or other.

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September 29, 2017, 01:39:41 PM
 #65

At the early stages Russia ruled it as illegal, China outlawed all withdrawals and some other country also spoke against it. But now everything seem to be smoothing up at least on the government side. Surely Bitcoin must be seen as challenging their authority. Is there something I am failing to see? All it would take is a 51% attack or a new law.

I think the government can actually take advantage of bitcoin. if bitcoin in a country is legalized it will invite foreign investors to come and invest their money into the country in bitcoin form, if this happens it will have an impact on the growth of the country's economy.

Many countries don't have this confidence and they are not making Bitcoin as the legal currency. Some countries understand the value of Bitcoin and their Economic growth that's why they are legalizing the Bitcoin in their country.

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September 29, 2017, 08:51:27 PM
 #66

At the early stages Russia ruled it as illegal, China outlawed all withdrawals and some other country also spoke against it. But now everything seem to be smoothing up at least on the government side. Surely Bitcoin must be seen as challenging their authority. Is there something I am failing to see? All it would take is a 51% attack or a new law.

I think the government can actually take advantage of bitcoin. if bitcoin in a country is legalized it will invite foreign investors to come and invest their money into the country in bitcoin form, if this happens it will have an impact on the growth of the country's economy.

Many countries don't have this confidence and they are not making Bitcoin as the legal currency. Some countries understand the value of Bitcoin and their Economic growth that's why they are legalizing the Bitcoin in their country.

As you mentioned the bitcoin will gonna play some potential role in economy in the future days.Many countries already started to know about the bitcoin so they are legalizing bitcoin in their country.Ofcourse the bitcoin promotes the foreign investors to investon their country which yields profits for the country also.so the countries doesn'ttake any action on the bitcoin.
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September 30, 2017, 08:24:17 AM
 #67

At the early stages Russia ruled it as illegal, China outlawed all withdrawals and some other country also spoke against it. But now everything seem to be smoothing up at least on the government side. Surely Bitcoin must be seen as challenging their authority. Is there something I am failing to see? All it would take is a 51% attack or a new law.

Even with a new law Bitcoin itself can't be stopped, that's just the beauty of it.  Smiley


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September 30, 2017, 06:06:06 PM
 #68

No government can stop the bitcoins as it is a decentralized currency and no one can control or monitor it. In case, if the government tried to monitor the bitcoins then also it will be very difficult for them to successfully implement the related law.
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October 01, 2017, 07:41:03 AM
 #69

At the early stages Russia ruled it as illegal, China outlawed all withdrawals and some other country also spoke against it. But now everything seem to be smoothing up at least on the government side. Surely Bitcoin must be seen as challenging their authority. Is there something I am failing to see? All it would take is a 51% attack or a new law.

I'm sure the governments of these countries have done a good amount of research into bitcoin. Thing is, it is hard to outlaw and maybe counter-productive doing so?
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October 01, 2017, 09:02:05 AM
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Government not being able stop bitcoin at this time is really not their wish and its because they must have tried several means necessary with all the facilities and technology available to them especially the world powers that they now have no other option to accept their fate which is resorting to regulation. Until the future when they can now develop a computer that can break the code of the blockchain, I guess we still have tonlive with the regulation.

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October 03, 2017, 07:55:04 PM
 #71

The governments of some states have repeatedly expressed their intention to prohibit the circulation of crypto currency in their country. The last time it tried to make China inoculate. However, as far as I know, no state has yet introduced a complete ban on the circulation of the crypto currency. It seems that the state is unable to do this, because if such a decision is adopted, the state bodies will not be able to control it. Citizens of this country will be able to circumvent such a ban and its effectiveness will be low. Maybe that's why no state has ever been able to ban crypto currency.

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October 04, 2017, 07:22:52 AM
 #72

No government can stop the bitcoins as it is a decentralized currency and no one can control or monitor it. In case, if the government tried to monitor the bitcoins then also it will be very difficult for them to successfully implement the related law.

A hundred percent agree to that.. It is not that the government has no law or whatever,, it is logically because they can’t stop it literally.. Only if the only option they can is stop internet.. So is it possible absolutely,, No.. It is suicifal to do because the people using it will not be silence and might to a much dangerous situation like war..

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October 04, 2017, 07:44:12 AM
 #73

The government is bond by the voice of the people if the citizens of that country opposed the stand of the government they will be followed. They can't stopped the one they can't controlle in the first place. Hackers and bitcoin has something in common the used of internet. Government been tracing hackers but failed when in fact there just few people. And bitcoin users are millions of determined people who just want to earned and that's the difference.

In any case, more to the point, what is the purpose behind these endeavors to dishearten utilize? Are the reasons and objectives handy and honest to goodness?

Does Bitcoin show a risk to power, control of the household cash supply, acquiring, expansion, remote trade or guardian organizations? Truly and No…

Governments can boycott Bitcoin, however the boycott can't be extremely viable. In this way, normally, they utilize different intends to debilitate Bitcoin proprietorship and exchanging.

Bit by bit, administrators in a few nations are starting to see Bitcoin as a greater amount of an open door than a risk. There might be no compelling reason to discourage natives from embracing Bitcoin, regardless of the possibility that the masses spares or spends it as real put away esteem money and not similarly as an installment instrument.

The fact of the matter is, it is not the government itself who is threatened by the existence of bitcoin. It is the financial institution like banks, remittances centers and even more. It is the mandate of the government the stability of that institution that’s why they’re also affected by it. Think of it as it is. If all bank holders will withdraw all they’re saving for bitcoin, what will happen to that bank itself and to one countries economy. I don’t say it will happen but bankers are giving those signs right now. But Sooner or later, they can’t do about it but to eventually be part of it.

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October 04, 2017, 08:36:12 AM
 #74

The government is bond by the voice of the people if the citizens of that country opposed the stand of the government they will be followed. They can't stopped the one they can't controlle in the first place. Hackers and bitcoin has something in common the used of internet. Government been tracing hackers but failed when in fact there just few people. And bitcoin users are millions of determined people who just want to earned and that's the difference.

Agreed with you, bitcoin is not only popular among the common people but also people like bill gates has seen tremendous potential in the bitcoins. Government can not ignore the fact and they also can not ignore the extraordinary journey of the bitcoins since its initial days.

I have heard about that. Bill gates comment about bitcoin is not shocking at all but still it’s amazing to hear it straight from his mouth. Bill is a techy guy who have changed the world with computers and it is so co related with bitcoin because it is partly what we used here. I mean bitcoin at this range may contribute also to bill gates profit even without investing to it. But I’m sure his into this kind of investment after all its profitable in nature.

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October 04, 2017, 08:46:08 AM
 #75

The government is bond by the voice of the people if the citizens of that country opposed the stand of the government they will be followed. They can't stopped the one they can't controlle in the first place. Hackers and bitcoin has something in common the used of internet. Government been tracing hackers but failed when in fact there just few people. And bitcoin users are millions of determined people who just want to earned and that's the difference.

In any case, more to the point, what is the purpose behind these endeavors to dishearten utilize? Are the reasons and objectives handy and honest to goodness?

Does Bitcoin show a risk to power, control of the household cash supply, acquiring, expansion, remote trade or guardian organizations? Truly and No…

Governments can boycott Bitcoin, however the boycott can't be extremely viable. In this way, normally, they utilize different intends to debilitate Bitcoin proprietorship and exchanging.

Bit by bit, administrators in a few nations are starting to see Bitcoin as a greater amount of an open door than a risk. There might be no compelling reason to discourage natives from embracing Bitcoin, regardless of the possibility that the masses spares or spends it as real put away esteem money and not similarly as an installment instrument.

The fact of the matter is, it is not the government itself who is threatened by the existence of bitcoin. It is the financial institution like banks, remittances centers and even more. It is the mandate of the government the stability of that institution that’s why they’re also affected by it. Think of it as it is. If all bank holders will withdraw all they’re saving for bitcoin, what will happen to that bank itself and to one countries economy. I don’t say it will happen but bankers are giving those signs right now. But Sooner or later, they can’t do about it but to eventually be part of it.
Bankers will never be able to be a part of bitcoin. All the ways in which banks earn money may not be applicable with bitcoin. Why would I keep money in the Bank if bitcoin brings in more money? On the other hand if the banks will give loans in bitcoin then no they will not take.

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October 04, 2017, 10:03:45 AM
 #76

1.Bitcoin has no centre to attack. There is no single organisation or person that controls Bitcoin and transactions don't go through a central clearing house there is really no way a regulator can stop people from downloading Bitcoin wallets and sending each other bitcoins. If there we to block all the websites that people can download Bitcoin wallets from, new ones will come up and some people will compile their own wallets from source code - Bitcoin is like Bittorrent is that respect. If they shut down theses internet, people will send each other Bitcoin via SMS and if they shut down the electricity supply, people will use solar and battery-powered solutions
2.secondly,if government try to ban , it will make it more popularize among those ones too who are not known of it,making individuals to explore it and finding new ways to grab something out of it
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October 04, 2017, 11:38:24 AM
 #77

1.Bitcoin has no centre to attack. There is no single organisation or person that controls Bitcoin and transactions don't go through a central clearing house there is really no way a regulator can stop people from downloading Bitcoin wallets and sending each other bitcoins. If there we to block all the websites that people can download Bitcoin wallets from, new ones will come up and some people will compile their own wallets from source code - Bitcoin is like Bittorrent is that respect. If they shut down theses internet, people will send each other Bitcoin via SMS and if they shut down the electricity supply, people will use solar and battery-powered solutions
2.secondly,if government try to ban , it will make it more popularize among those ones too who are not known of it,making individuals to explore it and finding new ways to grab something out of it
There is only one flaw in your arguments. This is something that we cannot buy goods with bitcoin. Each of us is forced periodically to exchange bitcoins for Fiat. The government has no problems to strengthen the control over the movement of Fiat and bitcoin will lose its relevance.

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October 04, 2017, 03:28:04 PM
 #78

Bitcoin isn't controlled by government. It works independent
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October 05, 2017, 08:49:30 AM
 #79

At the early stages Russia ruled it as illegal, China outlawed all withdrawals and some other country also spoke against it. But now everything seem to be smoothing up at least on the government side. Surely Bitcoin must be seen as challenging their authority. Is there something I am failing to see? All it would take is a 51% attack or a new law.

all countries  can’t move as union so you find any countries have special rules so that they can’t stopped bitcoin only can effect on price or stop legal exchange

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October 05, 2017, 04:01:45 PM
 #80

No government has so far been able to prohibit the circulation of bitcoins and other crypto currency in their country, apparently because there is no real mechanism to control such a ban. Citizens will vseravno use the Internet and deal with crypto currency. Most likely this is what stops governments from making decisions about the ban. Now we will see how this matter is finally solved in China and then the situation will clear up.

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Hyperme.sh
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October 05, 2017, 04:41:14 PM
 #81

Simply, Bitcoin is currently a decentralized open-source voluntary p2p network.
Each of the above terms prevents specific legal actions from occurring to the network.

[…]

Excellent post! Indeed.

However, please note Bitcoin was created for a specific purpose by a specific entity[1], and some additional evidence of that is that recent research has shown that Bitcoin must become 51% centralized (in terms of control) because as transaction fees become greater than protocol block reward, the incentive to converge on a consensus is lost.

And no, the Byzcoin research doesn’t ameliorate (solve) this problem.

Also Satoshi put double-hashing every where except on the PoW, thus enabling AsicBoost intentionally.

Everything was exquisitely premeditated and planned out for the move towards Nash’s Ideal Money but with a twist where that currency becomes entirely centralized on a hill in Israel (per biblical Revelation).

Enjoy.

Im fairly certain nash instrumented btc.

No he was just the excuse.


[1] to bring about the world government by destroying the exclusive jurisdiction of the nation-states over money per John Nash’s Ideal Money concept but with a twist where they designed it purposely to become entirely centralized in their control
AgentofCoin
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October 05, 2017, 06:52:10 PM
 #82

Simply, Bitcoin is currently a decentralized open-source voluntary p2p network.
Each of the above terms prevents specific legal actions from occurring to the network.

[…]

Excellent post! Indeed.

However, please note Bitcoin was created for a specific purpose by a specific entity, and some additional evidence of that is that recent research has shown that Bitcoin must become 51% centralized (in terms of control) because as transaction fees become greater than protocol block reward, the incentive to converge on a consensus is lost.

Yes, Bitcoin was created "for a specific purpose by a specific
entity", but we disagree as to who that entity is. The entity is not
a human Intelligence Service or World governmental body, and
has no interest in large scale territorial, political, or military warfare
or acquisition. The entity is beyond such and has laid foundations
for systems that are yet to come. Bitcoin is not important in this
time, but it was important to establish around 2008 AD for plausible
continuity of historical occurrence.

As for whether Bitcoin must become 51% centralized in order to
maintain future converging consensus, we disagree. The system
was emulated and found that at a certain point in the future, new
consensus rules or decisions are no longer possible or necessary,
since the main system is complete. The system was not intended
to have additions and/or subtractions throughout its lifespan
"voted" on through "centralized miner consensus". That is modern
day corruption. Nakamoto Consensus Theory failed in 2010.

(If changes to the system are needed today, before the total full
freeze takes effect, it will need to be done so through a new
"Community Consensus" mechanism. This mechanism is an all
or nothing approach, and not a majority rule or democracy. The
purpose of this mechanism is to rectify problems with efficiency
and attempt to maintain the single chain. It is not about making
changes or "upgrades", but about our singularity.)

Satoshi placed the 1MB cap to prevent the full centralization and
the ultimate collapse of the system, and this contradicts that his
original intention was centralization. When he set the limit, he
acknowledged that his original design could not properly function
because technology that exploits will always outpace technology
that advances. So, the system was placed into a cooldown state
until it could be naturally rectified by time. Valuation of the token
or proving human economic theories are irreverent to the future
goals. The goal was to provide choice, representative, or escape
from the coming system that will be their abomination. Bitcoin
is not of this world, so it shall stand and rebuke in the face
of the abominations that arise from the earth and the sea.



Also Satoshi put double-hashing every where except on the PoW, thus enabling AsciiBoost intentionally.

I do not think double Sha-256 would stop ASICBoost from
manifesting. ASICBoost is an exploit on the PoW inputs directly,
not the hashing algo.



Everything was exquisitely premeditated and planned out for the move towards Nash’s Ideal Money but with a twist where that currency becomes entirely centralized on a hill in Israel (per biblical Revelation).

Everything was planned out, and though there have been some
hiccups along the way, it will ultimately help bring about Nash's
Ideal Money as a side effect of its existence and success, but
miner centralization and modern day Israel has no direct
importance/significance with the actual goal.

I support a decentralized & unregulatable ledger first, with safe scaling over time.
Request a signed message if you are associating with anyone claiming to be me.
Hyperme.sh
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October 06, 2017, 03:57:03 AM
 #83

Also Satoshi put double-hashing every where except on the PoW, thus enabling AsciiBoost intentionally.

I do not think double Sha-256 would stop ASICBoost from manifesting. ASICBoost is an exploit on the PoW inputs directly, not the hashing algo.

For some reason I need to re-explain that double-hashing can mean employing two different hash functions as Satoshi did for example for public addresses. I had already explained this to @dinofelis in the context of an in depth analysis of Satoshi’s design of Bitcoin and also a blog about the future global reserve currency.

AsicBoost is an exploit on the internal stages of the SHA-256 hash function. Some of the computational work does not need to be repeated for successive hashing. Employing two different hash function algorithms chained, would eliminate AsicBoost. Satoshi knew this obviously (because his attention to detail in every other area about critical importance of hashing exemplifies that he would) and he chose to enable AsicBoost which enables centralization of Bitcoin mining.

(Note I will be editing this post to add rebuttals to your other comments. Obviously you’re regurgitating Trilema’s incomplete understanding or those who incorrectly idolize John Nash’s theory of Ideal Money)

Satoshi placed the 1MB cap to prevent the full centralization and the ultimate collapse of the system, and this contradicts that his original intention was centralization. When he set the limit, he acknowledged that his original design could not properly function because technology that exploits will always outpace technology that advances. So, the system was placed into a cooldown state until it could be naturally rectified by time.

The 1MB cap does nothing to solve the centralization problem. Here is a portion of the blog post I am in the process of writing which refutes you. <<--- IMPORTANT

Everything was planned out, and though there have been some hiccups along the way, it will ultimately help bring about Nash's Ideal Money as a side effect of its existence and success, but miner centralization and modern day Israel has no direct
importance/significance with the actual goal.

Afaics, you’ve been hoodwinked by the Zionists. If you really want to understand, then you must go watch the videos.

Have you actually watched all the expert videos I linked to, which presents much more cogent case than what I had studied about it several years ago. Those investigations are so thorough now, so as to be undeniable by anyone who puts in the time to actually digest the information.

[…]

If you understand who created Bitcoin and why they created it (to bring about the world government by destroying the exclusive jurisdiction of the nation-states over money per John Nash’s Ideal Money concept but with a twist where they designed it purposely to become entirely centralized in their control), then you understand crypto is only going to become what Mossad (Satan) wants it to become.

The law is the domain of the Great Harlot. Come out of her. Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s. I’m working on something that might possibly offer a way out, but realize that Satan’s control is widespread. We are not supposed to expect salvation here on earth.

I will not try to dominate the discussion. Carry on. Each person is offered their free will, to make their own choices.

Disclaimer: IANAL. This is not legal advice nor advice of any form. This is my n00b+kook opinion only.

Edit: the Steemit link with the videos appears to be currently offline. Here is an alternative link to the videos.




Quote
To start with, it is not an exploit (i.e., in the crypto sense) but rather a simple algorithmic property of SHA256.

Irrelevant. Satoshi was not limiting himself to the reliance on the standard cryptographic requirements for a cryptographic hash function. He was clearly analysing the complex ways that hash functions could fail in different scenarios.

Quote
Second, there is no way to know who would have patented it first. Third, the patents are not valid in all jurisdictions, and indeed

Irrelevant.

The centralization is due to the fact that not everyone can use it at the same cost due to patents. It is quite clear that TPTB could use it without paying patent royalties. The stealth quality interacts with the patent aspect in that there's no way to know who is using it now or has been using it in the past. Thus those who have access at the highest levels can get it patent-free, but everyone else can’t. Analogous to we pay taxes, but the elite don‘t.

There are only two 14nm ASIC fabs in the world. You can safely assume TPTB and banksters control them (via proxy).

Quote
I mean, all industries are rife with patented technologies, but that does not ensure monopolies in all of society. I suppose its possible, but I am unconvinced.

In most industries there is not a surreptitious way that avoiding a patent can benefit an elite power in such a way that it provides the sufficient advantage to winner-take-all the spoils.

Your points do not refute my logic. Satoshi was very much thinking in exquisite detail about the way the internal stages of hash functions interact as evident by the combination of RIPE and SHA. If you had followed the links to all the past discussion with @dinofelis, that more detailed analysis is there.

Quote
Incidentally, I did acknowledge that it renders additional cash to the patent holder.

That is not what I pointed out in my rebuttal. Please read again.

Quote
I just see that advantage as lost in the noise when compared to differential power rates or other operational efficiencies.

For the powerful who have access to the best of everything, it is then a matter of few percent who amongst them winner-take-alls because of recycling the disproportionate profits into more fixed capital investment. We’re analysing a power-struggle at the highest echelons such as a nation-state versus Zionists.
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October 06, 2017, 08:17:32 PM
 #84

Also Satoshi put double-hashing every where except on the PoW, thus enabling AsciiBoost intentionally.
I do not think double Sha-256 would stop ASICBoost from manifesting. ASICBoost is an exploit on the PoW inputs directly, not the hashing algo.

For some reason I need to re-explain that double-hashing can mean employing two different hash functions as Satoshi did for example for public addresses. I had already explained this to @dinofelis in the context of an in depth analysis of Satoshi’s design of Bitcoin and also a blog about the future global reserve currency.

AsicBoost is an exploit on the internal stages of the SHA-256 hash function. Some of the computational work does not need to be repeated for successive hashing. Employing two different hash function algorithms chained, would eliminate AsicBoost. Satoshi knew this obviously (because his attention to detail in every other area about critical importance of hashing exemplifies that he would) and he chose to enable AsicBoost which enables centralization of Bitcoin mining.

(Note I will be editing this post to add rebuttals to your other comments. Obviously you’re regurgitating Trilema’s incomplete understanding or those who incorrectly idolize John Nash’s theory of Ideal Money)

The thread has gone off topic. Nevertheless:

Satoshi did not choose to "enable" ASICBoost, that is corruption and conspiracy.

You have taken a natural exploit, which is inevitable of all human systems, and
have construed it into such a way as to portray it as a desired choice. There are
many exploits that are possible and are only discovered by the desire and
determination of an exploiter in most cases. In this case, it was discovered by
someone who patented it for their financial benefit to be licensed to miners.
That is acceptable and his discovery gave public notice to the community that
such an exploit was possible.

Personally, I would have preferred that he disclosed it in secret to the developers
so that it could be patched prior to its wide spread use, but he chose to monetize
it for himself, which is also acceptable because it follows the human game theory
aspect within Bitcoin. Sometimes, even non-direct participants of the Bitcoin
system are bound by its designed theoretical constraints, and thus inadvertently
make the full system stronger over time.

Satoshi did not intentionally desire centralization of the network, since if he did
so, the experiment would have never reached a stage in which it would prove
your overall argument. Your argument is incorrect because its basic premise will
not bring about your future conclusion. In fact, it will do the opposite and allow a
fully centralized world system to dominate over all flesh unabated and uncontested.

This is not acceptable and the actions today will circumvent the world government
and its single world currency of tomorrow. By the nature of the Bitcoin system and
it forking ability alone, it is contradictory to centralization and control, and thus
like the phoenix can not die and will continually be reborn after each attack.

Satoshi may not have been all knowing, but he was not a malicious instrument.
All proxies are only given the information they directly need to perform their tasks
at that time. Additional data for beyond the lifespan of the proxy is unnecessary
and discouraged.



Satoshi placed the 1MB cap to prevent the full centralization and the ultimate collapse of the system, and this contradicts that his original intention was centralization. When he set the limit, he acknowledged that his original design could not properly function because technology that exploits will always outpace technology that advances. So, the system was placed into a cooldown state until it could be naturally rectified by time.
The 1MB cap does nothing to solve the centralization problem. Here is a portion of the blog post I am in the process of writing which refutes you. <<--- IMPORTANT

Irrelevant, and does not refute.

I made no statements that it solved the problem of mining centralization and only
provided the answer of "1MB limit + Time = stabilization till natural balancing".
Mining centralization is a normal development of human interaction in the Bitcoin
mining system, and thus can not be solved with programmed restraints since the
devices exist in the physical world. Satoshi himself acknowledge that more efficient
specialized devices would come about due to humanities' current interaction in the
system. But as time progresses, any centralization reduces due to technological
advances and knowledge. Thus, the longer Bitcoin survives, the more balanced
it will become.



Everything was planned out, and though there have been some hiccups along the way, it will ultimately help bring about Nash's Ideal Money as a side effect of its existence and success, but miner centralization and modern day Israel has no direct
importance/significance with the actual goal.
Afaics, you’ve been hoodwinked by the Zionists. If you really want to understand, then you must go watch the videos.

I have no interest in conspiracies or scapegoating.

The Bitcoin system was designed as a beacon of light in the darkness that exists
now and is to come. It will shine in the face of oppression and remind the human
citizens in the world that there is still hope and resistance when all other avenues
have been shut down to them.

The world will never love Bitcoin because it directly rejects the things in their world.
Bitcoin can never become the world's tool, because it contradicts their fundamental
systems and thus proves that they are forming invalid blocks, and that their nodes
have become fully dishonest and malicious. Corrections from within the system is
no longer possible at this point in time, so Satoshi was coded and performed.

Your belief that Zionists have anything to do with Bitcoin, means you do not
know what happens to Zion during the time of the oppression that is to come.
The people of Zion and the world who are forced into the wilderness and into
the mountains will then understand Bitcoin's true purpose and that Satoshi was
indeed a proven proxy. Though he was not perfect, and no proxies are, because
of his success in his given task, many will endure and be found in the book of life.



Have you actually watched all the expert videos I linked to, which presents much more cogent case than what I had studied about it several years ago. Those investigations are so thorough now, so as to be undeniable by anyone who puts in the time to actually digest the information.
[…]
If you understand who created Bitcoin and why they created it (to bring about the world government by destroying the exclusive jurisdiction of the nation-states over money per John Nash’s Ideal Money concept but with a twist where they designed it purposely to become entirely centralized in their control), then you understand crypto is only going to become what Mossad (Satan) wants it to become.

The law is the domain of the Great Harlot. Come out of her. Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s. I’m working on something that might possibly offer a way out, but realize that Satan’s control is widespread. We are not supposed to expect salvation here on earth.

I will not try to dominate the discussion. Carry on. Each person is offered their free will, to make their own choices.

As for this above paragraph you have cited:
You have your theory backwards and your theological understanding is limited.

I support a decentralized & unregulatable ledger first, with safe scaling over time.
Request a signed message if you are associating with anyone claiming to be me.
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October 06, 2017, 08:21:29 PM
 #85

I think that governments have some fear about bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, that is why most banks are creating some FUD about all that concerns about cryptocurrencies. But there is an altcoin that i have never understood, you all know that Ripple is one of the most succesfull altcoins, and it is on the top 10, but i dont know how did it get there, or from where does its volume come from.. It is a very weird altcoin, and i think that it has been created by banks.

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dondexter
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October 06, 2017, 10:39:45 PM
 #86

At the early stages Russia ruled it as illegal, China outlawed all withdrawals and some other country also spoke against it. But now everything seem to be smoothing up at least on the government side. Surely Bitcoin must be seen as challenging their authority. Is there something I am failing to see? All it would take is a 51% attack or a new law.

I think firstly there isn't much negative stuff associated with bitcoin that it needs to be clamped down on. Secondly, it is not easy to completely outlaw it and may be more productive to regulate it. Thirdly, by outlawing it, it could lead to emergence of an underground black market which could make it worse.
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October 06, 2017, 11:59:24 PM
 #87

Sheep vs. Wolf

The thread has gone off topic.

No, no, no, it has stayed on topic. Just because you disagree with my hypothesis, doesn’t mean my posts are off-topic. That is a disingenuous claim. Disagreement is not proof.

Why hasn't any government stopped Bitcoin? Because the Zionists are pulling the strings in government and because Bitcoin was designed to be superior to the jurisdiction of any single nation-state (but the Zionists pulling strings and preventing any potential nation-state cooperation to stop Bitcoin will also be a factor). The Zionists want Bitcoin to succeed because it serves several aims:

  • It’s creative destruction of the nation-state central banks with themselves as the central bank in control of Bitcoin at the end game.
  • It’s a marvellous globalized tracking device.
  • It helps them eliminate cash, which is difficult for them to control. Bitcoin they will control and can turn off anyone’s number precisely as predicted in Revelation.
  • Given their control of the only two 14mn ASIC fabs in the world (via proxy as the financiers), they are indirectly gaining the seigniorage of issuing Bitcoin (mining).
  • It fools all the “useful idiot” nerds into supporting them.
  • It provides a system for them to more efficiently launder their drug and other illicit activities money and funding of their operatives all over the world.
  • Provides a way via unregulated speculation and offshoots such as ICOs for them to promote self-incrimination of wide swaths of the very people who might otherwise be able to defeat them.
  • Gives them an alternative to the barbaric, non-electronic relic gold, as they crash and reset the global monetary system circa 2020 to 2024.
  • It’s a Hegelian dialectic leverage against the nation-states which they want to force into submission to a world government.

Did you not listen in the videos I linked for you of the power the Zionists have even at the local government level in the USA.

I will be editing this post and adding more information to make my case stronger.

Mainly I’m disappointed that you just declared you’re correct without retorting the vast number of details I have linked to both in my past discussions with @dinofelis, my logic about Satoshi’s necessary priorities, and the details in the videos about Mossad implementing the 9/11 slaughter.

Satoshi did not choose to "enable" ASICBoost, that is corruption and conspiracy.

Disagree. I already explained that due to the careful analysis he put into hashing and interaction of different hashes in the double-hashing scenarios in Bitcoin, he was quite aware of the weakness of SHA256 in the proof-of-work context. I delved into this in great detail in my discussions with @dinofelis which I provided links to. If you are unwilling to read and comprehend those discussions, then I suggest you’re just an ignorant bystander.

For you to argue otherwise, is (sorry to say so frankly) absolutely asinine. Satoshi would not have released a system where he had not analysed this is great and excruciating detail the hash function for proof-of-work as that is the cornerstone of his invention. The hallmarks of his work and precise speech prove his fanatical attention to detail.

Please do not waste my scarce time with dribble (drool or drivel). I expect a more well researched reply from you. I do not wish to be denigrating or unappreciative, but I have do not have time if you are not even willing to study my hypothesis in great detail.

You have taken a natural exploit, which is inevitable of all human systems, and have construed it into such a way as to portray it as a desired choice. There are many exploits that are possible and are only discovered by the desire and determination of an exploiter in most cases. In this case, it was discovered by someone who patented it for their financial benefit to be licensed to miners. That is acceptable and his discovery gave public notice to the community that such an exploit was possible.

You’re apparently inept in the math of Probability & Statistics theory, or in correctly applying the initial conditions to the math.

There’s not multiple possible random cases of low-hanging fruit exploit discoveries on proof-of-work. Every sufficiently astute expert who has studied hash functions (including my deep study of them in 2013/4 when I was trying to design an ASIC-resistant PoW algorithm) knows about the sort of weakness that was exploited for ASICBOOST. In fact, I remember noting the structural peculiarity of SHA2 before ASICBOOST was announced as I independently saw there was a weakness that could perhaps be exploited but at the time I did not pursue it because of my health condition and because I had so many different priorities for things to work on and it seemed outside my capitalization to capitalize on any way.

It’s impossible that Satoshi did not study that weakness of that type of hash function construction. Absolutely impossible. Anyone who claims otherwise just really hasn’t studied the issue.

When one studies hash functions they become aware of the construction types such as Merkle–Damgård construction, wide-pipe, MD-compliant padding, etc..

Satoshi knew damn well that he was employing a cryptographic hash function in a paradigm that cryptographic hash functions are not normally designed for, i.e. that the cryptographic properties assured for hash functions would not necessary be sufficient. So of course he would study very carefully looking for weakness thereof. It’s impossible for someone of “his” (team’s collective) intellect to not find the ASICBOOST weakness. I suggest you ask Daniel Bernstein to study this in great detail and then ask for his conclusion. I am confident he will conclude the same as me.

Its re-“discovery” was quite unremarkable, inevitable and predictable.

Remember this. Things that look random to someone with a 140 IQ or non-expert, can be blatantly obvious to a 180 IQ or an expert in that field. Be very careful about your bias to due your mistaking ignorance as randomness. (the linked post is mine where I’m essentially mapping out mathematically what cognitive dissonance is)

Personally, I would have preferred that he disclosed it in secret to the developers so that it could be patched prior to its wide spread use, but he chose to monetize it for himself, which is also acceptable because it follows the human game theory
aspect within Bitcoin. Sometimes, even non-direct participants of the Bitcoin system are bound by its designed theoretical constraints, and thus inadvertently make the full system stronger over time.

It was already too late when it was re-discovered, to change the proof-of-work algorithm. And the other “fixes” proposed (which involved SegWit) destroy Bitcoin’s security (if you analyse it holistically as Craig Wright explained).

Satoshi did not intentionally desire centralization of the network, since if he did so, the experiment would have never reached a stage in which it would prove your overall argument. Your argument is incorrect because its basic premise will not bring about your future conclusion. In fact, it will do the opposite and allow a fully centralized world system to dominate over all flesh unabated and uncontested.

I am so disappointed in you. I thought you were a sophisticated and deep thinker.

Bitcoin can (economically) scale just fine. The centralization comes only when the Zionists are ready. They decide when.

Also you did not even pay attention that the centralization is only absolutely necessary (otherwise consensus will no longer converge) when the block reward declines near zero.

Man you did not even read the links I provided for you. Or you did not digest and assimilate them. I do not have time to spoon feed you.

This is not acceptable and the actions today will circumvent the world government and its single world currency of tomorrow. By the nature of the Bitcoin system and it forking ability alone, it is contradictory to centralization and control, and thus
like the phoenix can not die and will continually be reborn after each attack.

There is no forking away from the economic majority. The economic majority is the Zionists, because the people being flocks of sheep instead of pack wolves hand that power vacuum to them. If 9/11 does not convince you of Satan’s power here on earth, there will be more amazing feats coming. Again until you watch the 9/11 videos I provided which make an extremely compelling case that what Mossad represents (not limited to just Mossad) is in control over every key aspect of the civilizations, then we really have nothing to discuss with each other. I can not debate a willingly ignorant person. Sorry. If you’ve studied everything and then can make specific refutations of detailed facts, then we can have a useful discussion.

Satoshi may not have been all knowing, but he was not a malicious instrument. All proxies are only given the information they directly need to perform their tasks at that time. Additional data for beyond the lifespan of the proxy is unnecessary
and discouraged.

If you believe Satoshi was a single person, I have a bridge I would like to sell you.

Satoshi placed the 1MB cap to prevent the full centralization and the ultimate collapse of the system, and this contradicts that his original intention was centralization. When he set the limit, he acknowledged that his original design could not properly function because technology that exploits will always outpace technology that advances. So, the system was placed into a cooldown state until it could be naturally rectified by time.

The 1MB cap does nothing to solve the centralization problem. Here is a portion of the blog post I am in the process of writing which refutes you. <<--- IMPORTANT

Irrelevant, and does not refute.

I made no statements that it solved the problem of mining centralization and only provided the answer of "1MB limit + Time = stabilization till natural balancing". Mining centralization is a normal development of human interaction in the Bitcoin
mining system, and thus can not be solved with programmed restraints since the devices exist in the physical world. Satoshi himself acknowledge that more efficient specialized devices would come about due to humanities' current interaction in the
system.

Please quote for me Satoshi’s writing about what you claim. I do not remember reading that.

But as time progresses, any centralization reduces due to technological advances and knowledge. Thus, the longer Bitcoin survives, the more balanced it will become.

Lol. It’s true that someone may invent an improvement (in fact I have and will release it soon), but that is not Bitcoin. We were talking about Bitcoin, not altcoins. Bitcoin can not copy my design.

But another factor that perhaps the Zionists win any way (because the people like yourself are sheep and thus empowered Satan), so even my better decentralized ledger may not help us avoid the end game of Revelation.

You’re a sheep because you refuse to review the evidence that Mossad did 9/11. You selfishly follow the other sheep who refuse to learn.

I’m a wolf, a pack animal, not a flock animal.

Everything was planned out, and though there have been some hiccups along the way, it will ultimately help bring about Nash's Ideal Money as a side effect of its existence and success, but miner centralization and modern day Israel has no direct
importance/significance with the actual goal.

Afaics, you’ve been hoodwinked by the Zionists. If you really want to understand, then you must go watch the videos.

I have no interest in conspiracies or scapegoating.

Willfully refusing to learn is not an admirable trait.

Assigning derogatory labels (e.g. “conspiracies or scapegoating”) to something you have not studied is the epitome of a fool.

It’s only by studying it and then refuting it that you can claim the high ground.

Your belief that Zionists have anything to do with Bitcoin, means you do not know what happens to Zion during the time of the oppression that is to come. The people of Zion and the world who are forced into the wilderness and into the mountains will then understand Bitcoin's true purpose and that Satoshi was indeed a proven proxy. Though he was not perfect, and no proxies are, because of his success in his given task, many will endure and be found in the book of life.

My understanding is the Great Harlot are the “banksters” who end up with all the wealth on top the mountain in Israel. Afaik, the Zionists are not the citizens of Israel, but rather corrupters of the Israelites.

… your theological understanding is limited.

An unsubstantiated accusation is not proof.




Quote from: anonymous
I agree with AgentofCoins position in that exchange.

Based on refutation of which facts in my highly detailed thesis?

You and he both offered no factual argument. Just assertions. Whereas, I presented numerous facts and evidence.

What is the point of having a discussion with someone who ignores all the evidence?
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October 07, 2017, 03:03:57 AM
 #88

There is another very important factoid that I only recently realized.

The AML regulations which are spreading all over the world due to the terrorism theme the Zionists have foisted on the world (as explained in great detail in the videos I linked for all you to watch and keep plodding y’all to watch), make it illegal for miners to sell virtual currencies except on an AML regulated exchange (which of course the Zionists will control with their control over the regulators). You may not legally sell mined BTC to a private party or P2P. You can spend it on goods & services, but a mining operation can’t survive by spending its BTC, as it needs cash flow to pay electricity and upgrade mining hardware.

Thus you can clearly see that the Zionists are employing the nation-state laws to give themselves an eventual monopoly on who can mine Bitcoin. This is in addition to the ASICBOOST thing which I already explained upthread leverages the patent law of nation-states to give the Zionists a 30% electrical efficiency advantage.

They planned this out exquisitely.
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October 07, 2017, 05:22:28 AM
 #89

Glad iamnotback is back!

After reading your article at steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/future-ico-woes-and-alternatives-to-icos-for-fundraising, I have the impression that you stand is 100% into bitcoin and litecoin only. Ethereum and the rest under its umbrella are illegal and should/will be gone. Am I right in this? If so, then here's something I want to ask you.

Assuming in a world where the current conventional world economic system is totally collapsed and the only thing remaining are bitcoin and litecoin (everything else gone, including ethereum and the rest), can bitcoin and litecoin do what ethereum is doing now with its "smart contract" foundation? If they can, then how exactly can that be done and why are the TPTB not doing it with bitcoin and litecoin? If they can't, then isn't it possible that despite ethereum not legal (as in unregulated), it may very likely still continue and prosper and that governments may eventually approve ICO (flip-flopping as they do with banning bitcoin and later on reverse stance)?

In an ideal world, maybe only bitcoin will exist (not ethereum and the rest). But then if we are really in an ideal world, we may not even need to slave for money nor bitcoin at all. And if we are permanently in a less ideal world, then what do you think is the likelihood that despite ethereum and all the ICOs under it are illegal (for being unregulated), they may still survive and continue to prosper? Much like the government is clean because it strive for regulation to protect the people, and yet continue to let loose the Clinties (the family with high dead body count). But of course regulation is to be put in place not really to protect ICO participants, but to know who you are and track you down. There are many crypto-based companies that voluntarily require you to submit your personal details under the excuse of AML/KYC. Immediately that tells me the people in charge of this company are very likely related to TPTB, be it directly or indirectly.


Edit:
Come to think of it. The Chinese people are simply not intellectually nor technically competent enough, and yet all those high-tech bitcoin mining equipment/hardware are claimed to be originating from them. A person that I personally know mentioned to me that Bitmain is actually an Israeli company. So I wouldn't be surprised that China's success and dominance in bitcoin and bitcoin mining is not without very strong support from Israeli. You just look at speeches given by Roger Ver and Jihan Wu and you can immediately tell they are totally not cut out for all these. Stupid people cannot be on top unless they are supported by the powers above them. Roger Ver, Jihan Wu and many others are very likely just public figureheads to play out the exact dramas that TPTB wants them to.

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October 07, 2017, 05:43:27 AM
 #90

At the early stages Russia ruled it as illegal, China outlawed all withdrawals and some other country also spoke against it. But now everything seem to be smoothing up at least on the government side. Surely Bitcoin must be seen as challenging their authority. Is there something I am failing to see? All it would take is a 51% attack or a new law.

Everything is just drama, precisely to give the impression that government is anti-bitcoin, that government has absolutely nothing to do with bitcoin, that bitcoin couldn't possibly be the mark of the beast. Other reason is that government needs a new system to transition current economic system into, so banning and approving it (and re-banning and re-approving it) somewhat helps in an "orderly" and more diverse distribution of the cryptocurrency. They can say they accept bitcoin 100%, but then you will see the most disruptive, most abruptive, and most destabilizing shift from fiat currencies into bitcoin. The conventional system can collapse overnight (or more) if adoption is abrupt. By playing it discretely and counter intuitively, TPTB can avoid such unnecessary trouble.

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October 07, 2017, 05:58:17 AM
 #91

Sheep vs. Wolf
The thread has gone off topic.
No, no, no, it has stayed on topic. Just because you disagree with my hypothesis, doesn’t mean my posts are off-topic. That is a disingenuous claim. Disagreement is not proof.

...
...
...
...

If your argument is that Zionists control the governments and thus allow their
creation (Bitcoin) to continue to exists without significant attempts of control,
then I suppose your current comments are on topic to this thread, but they are
not on topic to this section where the thread has been placed (Legal). You are
not making legal arguments or using common legal theory in your analysis.

In addition, if you truly believed the results of your analysis, you would never
make such statements on a public forum that is constantly monitored by their
control systems, since that would designate you for termination either by being
suicided or by "accidental" hit and run. Continuing, majority of participants upon
the internet do not care, nor take such concerns seriously, and so you providing
your analysis of such will not save anyone since the deed is done, and their
Zionist world control is absolute, based upon your reasoning. Yet, this is
contradicted by your current existence here with arguments of such, and
so, must be ignored. When people speak the secret truths, death does follow.

This leads to a possibility that your argument is not based on a true belief of
Zionism creating or controlling Bitcoin, but on an attack scenario designed to
mitigate my argument type, since it has the possibility of disturbing the full
control of humanity by their one world currency. Thus, you could be the true
Zionist, calling others such as obfuscation, as if it held any real importance.
Ultimately, whatever group anyone is claimed to be allied to, holds no
significance when the curtain falls. No one will be spared, except the
few who flee to Bitcoin at the time in which it is appointed.

The Bitcoin of that time is not as transparent as todays. As new designs are
added to the Bitcoin system to help hide and protect its users, the governments
will become more and more oppressive until it is outlawed and they establish
their own controlled token system. This is the One World System your masters
desire and will wield over the meek. Anyone who attempts to prevent privacy
and other such user protective ideas from being added to the Bitcoin system
is an ally of the One World System that is to come, and an enemy of Bitcoin's
true purpose: Free choice prior to forced slavery.

So, the issue is likely that you do not like my words because you consider
them to be a threat to your ideals. You wish for the destruction of Bitcoin so
that Nash's theory can be realized thereafter and thus usher in a world of
total human subjugation. I can assure you that the one world currency will
eventually manifest just as you wish, but Bitcoin and its theory will have
already propagated to prevent all from being forced to partake in that
system. Without Bitcoin and its proven theory, no flesh would survive.

Bitcoin is not human forced, but a choice provided by the entity for humanity.
One World Currency is human forced, and mandates sin as a show of loyalty.
Bitcoin is a contradiction of this world, will not conform, and resides outside it.
One World Currency is a continuation of this world, and exacerbation of its sin.

My communications in this area is based upon theological reasoning and not
on the actions of a single proxy alone. Many proxies have come before Satoshi
and many will come after, all in order to secure the paths in the wilderness and
the streams in the desert. Proxies are not the end all of the system, and the
system is continually built till the time it is perfected, and only then will the
time appointed be realized.

Your theological reasoning is based upon modern day biases and interpretations
that are less than 150 years old. The plan in the works is thousands of years
old and will proceed accordingly to the design of the entity. What will occur
has already transpired and so there is no point in continuing this conversation
since I have stated my simple reasoning and you wish to argue motives of a
limited single past proxy. Satoshi was not a betrayer and history will confirm.

History will record these communications and will be the only judge here.
I do not need to force, convince, or explain my full reasonings, since it was
said, "seek and ye shall find, and knock and it shall be opened to you". So I
have only provided these communications for your consideration and pointed
toward thoughts of interesting possibilities. Some will understand them and
others will not, but I am not looking for conversion, but for more possibilities
that have not been entertained or anticipated. The choice is yours as to how
you interpret my words. If you dismiss them, I am not harmed, and if you
attack me, I lose no power, since I desire none and the goal is not worldly.

The goal is to proclaim what is to come, so that those who listen will consider
and prepare, and those who have been granted the means will move justly.
I am a reminder, not a redeemer. Human condescension is of no value.

I support a decentralized & unregulatable ledger first, with safe scaling over time.
Request a signed message if you are associating with anyone claiming to be me.
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October 07, 2017, 06:05:48 AM
 #92

If your argument is that Zionists control the governments and thus allow their creation (Bitcoin) to continue to exists without significant attempts of control, then I suppose your current comments are on topic to this thread, but they are not on topic to this section where the thread has been placed (Legal). You are not making legal arguments or using common legal theory in your analysis.

What?

I wrote about how patent-law and AML law are both being exploited surreptitiously but in plain sight.

You’re really grasping at straws now.

Please cite where you made such comments in your prior posting

If you can’t see my obvious discussion of how ASICBOOST is exclusive for the Zionists due to the patent-law which prevents everyone else from using it and my recent post about AML law preventing miners from selling except on Zionist controlled regulated exchanges, then it is not my job to teach you how to read.

In addition, if you truly believed the results of your analysis, you would never make such statements on a public forum that is constantly monitored by their control systems, since that would designate you for termination either by being
suicided or by "accidental" hit and run. Continuing, majority of participants upon the internet do not care, nor take such concerns seriously, and so you providing your analysis of such will not save anyone since the deed is done, and their
Zionist world control is absolute, based upon your reasoning. Yet, this is contradicted by your current existence here with arguments of such, and so, must be ignored. When people speak the secret truths, death does follow.

I’m not a sheep. I’m a pack wolf. We fight.

“You can take my gun from my cold dead hand”.

Nobody said they yet have the ability to murder every person on earth yet. They have control over the government, the media, and many of the masses (i.e. the sheep like you and they clearly control you because you’re unwilling to break out of your delusional fantasy about how the world really works and what Bitcoin really is about).

Your theological reasoning is based upon modern day biases and interpretations that are less than 150 years old. The plan in the works is thousands of years old and will proceed accordingly to the design of the entity.

Revelation (in the Bible) is an old document. It predicts the Great Harlot as I explained.

I’m sorry I refuse to continue to debate with someone who has such low reading comprehension. You don’t even read what I write.
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October 07, 2017, 06:13:28 AM
 #93

If your argument is that Zionists control the governments and thus allow their creation (Bitcoin) to continue to exists without significant attempts of control, then I suppose your current comments are on topic to this thread, but they are not on topic to this section where the thread has been placed (Legal). You are not making legal arguments or using common legal theory in your analysis.
What?

I wrote about how patent-law and AML law are both being exploited surreptitiously but in plain sight.

You’re really grasping at straws now.

Please cite where you made such comments in your prior posting
in which I originally responded to. From my position, you have only
made such comment after my comment of being off topic.

Please don't waste your time with children's games.



I support a decentralized & unregulatable ledger first, with safe scaling over time.
Request a signed message if you are associating with anyone claiming to be me.
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October 07, 2017, 06:18:54 AM
 #94

Bitcoin is not human forced, but a choice provided by the entity for humanity.
One World Currency is human forced, and mandates sin as a show of loyalty.
Bitcoin is a contradiction of this world, will not conform, and resides outside it.
One World Currency is a continuation of this world, and exacerbation of its sin.

If I am TPTB.
And I know you are against everything I do.
And I want you to adopt my One World Currency.
You will never adopt it willingly, nor voluntarily, nor without a fight to the death.
If I have to force you to adopt, I would most likely fail than succeed.
The only way I can make you adopt my One World Currency is to make you believe it is not from me.
To make you believe if you adopt this One World Currency, you will be able to crush me.
Thus you willingly and voluntarily adopt it.
Much to my pleasure and intention.

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October 07, 2017, 06:21:23 AM
 #95

Bitcoin is not human forced, but a choice provided by the entity for humanity.
One World Currency is human forced, and mandates sin as a show of loyalty.
Bitcoin is a contradiction of this world, will not conform, and resides outside it.
One World Currency is a continuation of this world, and exacerbation of its sin.

If I am TPTB.
And I know you are against everything I do.
And I want you to adopt my One World Currency.
You will never adopt it willingly, nor voluntarily, nor without a fight to the death.
If I have to force you to adopt, I would most likely fail than succeed.
The only way I can make you adopt my One World Currency is to make you believe it is not from me.
To make you believe if you adopt this One World Currency, you will be able to crush me.
Thus you willingly and voluntarily adopt it.
Much to my pleasure and intention.

Wow Dork. That was excellent.
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October 07, 2017, 06:22:30 AM
 #96

Bitcoin is not human forced, but a choice provided by the entity for humanity.
One World Currency is human forced, and mandates sin as a show of loyalty.
Bitcoin is a contradiction of this world, will not conform, and resides outside it.
One World Currency is a continuation of this world, and exacerbation of its sin.

If I am TPTB.
And I know you are against everything I do.
And I want you to adopt my One World Currency.
You will never adopt it willingly, nor voluntarily, nor without a fight to the death.
If I have to force you to adopt, I would most likely fail than succeed.
The only way I can make you adopt my One World Currency is to make you believe it is not from me.
To make you believe if you adopt this One World Currency, you will be able to crush me.
Thus you willingly and voluntarily adopt it.
Much to my pleasure and intention.

Wow Dork. That was excellent.

Hey iamfinallyback, would you care to answer my previous post to you about bitcoin and ethereum?

This one here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1972052.msg22665333#msg22665333

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October 07, 2017, 06:50:28 AM
 #97

Bitcoin is not human forced, but a choice provided by the entity for humanity.
One World Currency is human forced, and mandates sin as a show of loyalty.
Bitcoin is a contradiction of this world, will not conform, and resides outside it.
One World Currency is a continuation of this world, and exacerbation of its sin.

If I am TPTB.
And I know you are against everything I do.
And I want you to adopt my One World Currency.
You will never adopt it willingly, nor voluntarily, nor without a fight to the death.
If I have to force you to adopt, I would most likely fail than succeed.
The only way I can make you adopt my One World Currency is to make you believe it is not from me.
To make you believe if you adopt this One World Currency, you will be able to crush me.
Thus you willingly and voluntarily adopt it.

Much to my pleasure and intention.

Yes, accept that contradicts what the bible says, and if we are
assuming that it is a prophetic writing since the entity is of a higher
dimension and the actions have already occurred, then what you just
said is wrong, since what you said is not in the Book of Revelation.

In fact, it conveys the opposite.
Please refer to your book and update your understanding.
The One World System is forced and those who do not take it are put
to death. That is the opposite of "willingly and voluntarily adopting it".

Some will escape being put to death, because they saw the signs prior
and fled. According to the book, those people will be sustained by the
entity in some manner and will be the ones who endure till the end.

But, ultimately I have wasted some time here and this original thread,
which was about Bitcoin and Legal Theory, has paid the real price.  Cheesy

I support a decentralized & unregulatable ledger first, with safe scaling over time.
Request a signed message if you are associating with anyone claiming to be me.
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October 07, 2017, 07:26:13 AM
 #98

Yes, accept that contradicts what the bible says, and if we are
assuming that it is a prophetic writing since the entity is of a higher
dimension and the actions have already occurred, then what you just
said is wrong, since what you said is not in the Book of Revelation.

In fact, it conveys the opposite.
Please refer to your book and update your understanding.
The One World System is forced and those who do not take it are put
to death. That is the opposite of "willingly and voluntarily adopting it".

Some will escape being put to death, because they saw the signs prior
and fled. According to the book, those people will be sustained by the
entity in some manner and will be the ones who endure till the end.

But, ultimately I have wasted some time here and this original thread,
which was about Bitcoin and Legal Theory, has paid the real price.  Cheesy


Everything you said contradicts the Book of Revelation too.
Things can be forced onto you without you even realizing it directly.
If the government makes your fiat money worthless, you are forced to find a solution and take action.
Otherwise, you suffer and die.

Since you are interested in the Bible, I suggest you the Nag Hammadi lost scriptures too.

And here's my favorite quote for you.

Quote
Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. - Matthew 6:19-21

I believe that includes bitcoin too as one of the treasures on earth.
And no, in case you believe a world above us would need money too.
The spiritual world above us has absolutely no use for money in any form or kind.
Anyone who argue the opposite is a charlatan and a sinner.
Money is an earth-bound stuff.

Edit:
Money, in any form or kind, is not the work of God.
I believe the same can be said of bitcoin.
So anyone saying bitcoin is from the universe as an answer to people's prayer for financial salvation against TPTB (or something like that), is committing blasphemy, knowingly or unknowingly.

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October 07, 2017, 05:07:36 PM
 #99

Some will escape being put to death, because they saw the signs prior and fled. According to the book, those people will be sustained by the entity in some manner and will be the ones who endure till the end.

It’s not clear in the Bible if those who are raptured are not put to death or whatever. Rather the rapture applies to the person’s soul not their earthly carcass.

The Bible says those who refuse the Mark 666 will be put to death, but they can still be raptured.

As Dork says, the Bible says that in heaven (and on earth after Jesus returns with those who were raptured), there is no use for money. So thus your proclamation that Bitcoin is useful for those who survive the reign of the Anti-Christ is a nonsensical theological theory.


My perspective is the threat from the Zionists is much nearer-term and I don’t base that on the Bible but rather the expert videos by scholars that exquisitely lay out the evidence that Mossad slaughtered 2700+ Americans on 9/11. The Zionists are collapsing the globally economy with a global monetary reset coming within several years.

They will be ratcheting up their use of laws to force everyone into the corrals, but entirely turning off Bitcoin would be antithetical to the reasons they built Bitcoin in the first place.



9/11 by 19 incompetents and Bitcoin by a lone Japanese hacker are posited to be examples of the amazing (almost magical to the masses) feats the Anti-Christ will do which the people will greatly admire. And yes, the people are admiring 9/11 as the example of what 19 Arabs with box cutters who couldn’t even fly airplanes well enough in flight school, were able to accomplish — i.e. the sheep are hoodwinked by the Anti-Christ as predicted in the Bible.

“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” — Arthur C. Clarke
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October 07, 2017, 07:05:51 PM
 #100

Not all governments ban bitcoin because I don't know what to do with this invention. Ignore use cryptocurrency, they can not. There is a constant outflow of investment into the cryptocurrency. Today, it is not critical but the process is gaining momentum and can significantly weaken the economy in the first place developed countries. It is hard to deny and difficult to subdue. Here the government and sit as a dog in the manger.

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October 07, 2017, 07:31:56 PM
 #101

I have no idea why a 51% attack didn't happen until today, maybe they wait until more people will have invested their money so that the uproar will be unlike higher?

But the past has shown that governments can't stop bitcoin with laws and people are also not able to understand why it should be illegal. It's not drugs, it doesn't beat anyone, it doesn't hurt anyone, so what could be the reason to prohibit it successfully?
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October 07, 2017, 08:03:54 PM
 #102

In my opinion it would not be wise to be against on bitcoin nor blockchain technology. This will be only way forward and you just simply cannot ignore it.

Governments are now looking ways to regulate blockchain businesses. For example, Estonia may offer "estcoins" to it's e-residents. The proposal to issue crypto tokens would make the Republic of Estonia the first country with an Initial Coin Offering (ICO).

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October 07, 2017, 09:09:09 PM
 #103

Yes, accept that contradicts what the bible says, and if we are
assuming that it is a prophetic writing since the entity is of a higher
dimension and the actions have already occurred, then what you just
said is wrong, since what you said is not in the Book of Revelation.

In fact, it conveys the opposite.
Please refer to your book and update your understanding.
The One World System is forced and those who do not take it are put
to death. That is the opposite of "willingly and voluntarily adopting it".

Some will escape being put to death, because they saw the signs prior
and fled. According to the book, those people will be sustained by the
entity in some manner and will be the ones who endure till the end.

But, ultimately I have wasted some time here and this original thread,
which was about Bitcoin and Legal Theory, has paid the real price.  Cheesy


Everything you said contradicts the Book of Revelation too.
Things can be forced onto you without you even realizing it directly.
If the government makes your fiat money worthless, you are forced to find a solution and take action.
Otherwise, you suffer and die.

Since you are interested in the Bible, I suggest you the Nag Hammadi lost scriptures too.

And here's my favorite quote for you.

Quote
Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. - Matthew 6:19-21

I believe that includes bitcoin too as one of the treasures on earth.
And no, in case you believe a world above us would need money too.
The spiritual world above us has absolutely no use for money in any form or kind.
Anyone who argue the opposite is a charlatan and a sinner.
Money is an earth-bound stuff.

Edit:
Money, in any form or kind, is not the work of God.
I believe the same can be said of bitcoin.
So anyone saying bitcoin is from the universe as an answer to people's prayer for financial salvation against TPTB (or something like that), is committing blasphemy, knowingly or unknowingly.

You obviously have missed my point.
Either I have explained myself incorrectly due to my limitations
or you are incapable of understanding what I have said. At no
time did I say anything that you think I said.

As I have stated prior, some will understand what I am saying
and others will not, I do not need to convince you. For you to
have written such a response to me, tells me that there is much
I need to explain to you. But there is a high probability that you
will never understand it after the time I spend, so I will not go
in depth with pages of communications, but will give a very
simple addition that you can choose to apply to my prior
statements or not:

"The entity is not fully passive in the system and provides tools
through intervention, dreams, and proxies, and sends them into
the world so that humanity is able to advance and move over time,
in a manner in which the end goal completes a promise given, and
its ultimate own perfection and reunification. When money or Bitcoin
is created in this world, it always manifested from the source, but
the source does not need nor care for money or bitcoin obviously,
and was only provided for the next issued tools for humanities'
growth. So, from a human theological perspective, electricity,
cars, planes, computers, governments, and whatever else the
human mind is able to design or construct are all issued by the
source to provide the human collective choices and paths. Those
tools will be used for good or for evil, that is the choice provided
by the entity, it does not force the use of one, its says you must
pick which based on your individual growth. The entity does not
force you to do anything, and in fact has allowed you to choose
it or deny it. The entity does not desire blind faith or blind
worship, but true choice, reasoning, understanding, patience,
mercy, responsibility, and companionship."

So, outright dismissing Bitcoin and thinking that God is against
it automatically because God has no need for it on earth or in
heaven, it irrelevant to the actually argument at hand. The issue
is not whether Bitcoin or money is good or bad, the issue was
whether Bitcoin could provide a path of escape from the system
that will come that is oppressive and all consuming. My argument
was that Bitcoin could be another path, opposite from the One
World Currency that is to come, that the entity always provides
for humanity so that not all must fall in the end, but some shall
survive and overcome, as like with Lot. I never said anything
that you think I said. Next time please ask for clarification instead
of accusing me of performing blasphemy, since it is clear
you have not anticipated my actual thought process, and
have used a base reasoning type to dismiss me.

I support a decentralized & unregulatable ledger first, with safe scaling over time.
Request a signed message if you are associating with anyone claiming to be me.
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October 07, 2017, 09:45:24 PM
 #104

Some will escape being put to death, because they saw the signs prior and fled. According to the book, those people will be sustained by the entity in some manner and will be the ones who endure till the end.
It’s not clear in the Bible if those who are raptured are not put to death or whatever. Rather the rapture applies to the person’s soul not their earthly carcass.

The Bible says those who refuse the Mark 666 will be put to death, but they can still be raptured.

The rapture in not in the bible and is a very recent creation.

The theory of the rapture contradicts the Judgment and Jesus's
and the old testament prophet's teachings. The only humans who
were allowed to be taken away prior to the Judgment were Elijah
and Enoch. All others sleep till the Judgment. The rapture is not
in theological conformance and would be a contradiction of all
the words prior to the lines you are misinterpreting. If that
one line contradicts all others, it must be an incorrect
form of logic. All will be gathered together, then the
wheat and chaff will be separated.



As Dork says, the Bible says that in heaven (and on earth after Jesus returns with those who were raptured), there is no use for money. So thus your proclamation that Bitcoin is useful for those who survive the reign of the Anti-Christ is a nonsensical theological theory.
...

I did not say what you think I said.

I believe I clearly stated that Bitcoin could be a path provided,
that can exist outside of the One World System. Some people
will be able to live through the "Antichrist's" reign, yet will not
accept the mark. These are the people who will endure till the
end, without blemish. Everything I am referring to is prior to
the Son of Man returning. I never said anything about heaven,
or money in heaven, or any other such ridiculousness.

So, you must ask yourself, how can these people survive in
this oppressive world and not directly participate in that world?
How will God provide for them, as he has always done? How
will they buy and sell without conforming to the One World
System? It is possible another system is provided for them?
These are the question I ask.


You two are either placing words in my mouth intentionally,
or are really missing what I have been saying this whole time.

I support a decentralized & unregulatable ledger first, with safe scaling over time.
Request a signed message if you are associating with anyone claiming to be me.
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October 07, 2017, 10:13:20 PM
 #105

Many governments have neither stopped Bitcoin nor declared Bitcoin as totally legal, just because of the fact that government also realizes the potential of bitcoin, hence they also want to get befits out of it. But on the other hand they are still finding some ways so that the monopoly of the national currency don't losses it value due to which every other day few government either launch their new crypto currency or declare ban on ICO. Also imposing a ban will ultimately cost the government as there will be no tax returns on Bitcoin and Bitcoin may continue to transact illegally.

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Hyperme.sh
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October 07, 2017, 11:05:01 PM
 #106

Since you asked me in a PM to answer this…

I have the impression that you stand is 100% into bitcoin and litecoin only. Ethereum and the rest under its umbrella are illegal and should/will be gone.

Only BTC that was purchased long before the BTCSegWit was created. I do not want to own recent BTC as there is small chance of a long-range chain reorganization where all the SegWit is stolen by the miners because that is one of the flaws of SegWit.

My main holding right now is BCH and I still have some LTC, but I sold all my LTC at $75 - $80 and repurchased some in the low $40s. I sold most of my BTC in the upper $4000s for LTC and BCH and as I said I took profits on the LTC hence.

I hold BCH because it appears to be the most undervalued all of the major proof-of-work issued coins. And the chaos that SegWit2X creates (as well any potential long-range chain reorganization of BTC) could cause BCH to skyrocket. Remember I was screaming all over the forum for everyone to buy LTC at $6 (predicted it to go to $50+). But I’m apparently a bit too premature in my move into BCH. Probably should have sold to fiat and then repurchased only BTC and LTC and held for another move up first. Appears the bottom in BCH will either be $350 or $300ish. If we break below $300, that might change my expectations.

Assuming in a world where the current conventional world economic system is totally collapsed and the only thing remaining are bitcoin and litecoin (everything else gone, including ethereum and the rest), can bitcoin and litecoin do what ethereum is doing now with its "smart contract" foundation?

I don’t agree that BTC and LTC are the only viable proof-of-work coins. There’s also XMR, BCH, and ZCASH.

Also I believe there might exist coins which are not proof-of-work, which were not illegally issued securities, such as my altcoin project which is underdevelopment and not yet officially announced.

Bitcoin/Litecoin can’t in their current form do everything that Ethereum does because the miners don’t validate complex smart contracts. There are limited ways of implementing some forms of smart contracts on Satoshi’s blockchain design, but not all or even most.

There’s also the issue of decentralized scaling, which no blockchain in existence can do.

If they can, then how exactly can that be done and why are the TPTB not doing it with bitcoin and litecoin? If they can't, then isn't it possible that despite ethereum not legal (as in unregulated), it may very likely still continue and prosper and that governments may eventually approve ICO (flip-flopping as they do with banning bitcoin and later on reverse stance)?

Nobody is sure tokens illegally issued as securities will thrive or not. Did you see my post yesterday about the SEC being for sale to corruption?

Nevertheless I am working on an altcoin project with some other programmers and I think it will be legally issued and it will do everything Ethereum does, so I think there will be alternatives any way.

I’m not quite sure how the Zionists will react to all of this, if we presume they did create and do control the destiny of Bitcoin (which of course is just an unproven theory with some circumstantial evidence). Presumably they will attempt to co-opt it in some way.

And if we are permanently in a less ideal world, then what do you think is the likelihood that despite ethereum and all the ICOs under it are illegal (for being unregulated), they may still survive and continue to prosper?

Looks to me like the governments are being corrupted by the ICO money and then we could have governments fighting over which tokens are legal in which countries, lol. A huge mess.

First the Swiss (Ethereum, etc) and now perhaps in the USA.

We’re headed into a huge mess of separatist movements, bankrupted governments, etc..

I think the ICO issued tokens will live on for a while, but that eventually they will be displaced by tokens that were not encumbered perhaps.

Well really what I think is that which ever token ever attains mass adoption first is going to be in the leadership position and will add all the features and take over the market, presuming the Zionists don’t intervene.

But of course regulation is to be put in place not really to protect ICO participants, but to know who you are and track you down.

Actually regulation exists mostly to control the competition so that only those who pay off the regulators can thrive.

So more regulation should mean more corruption, enriching a very few people.

There are many crypto-based companies that voluntarily require you to submit your personal details under the excuse of AML/KYC. Immediately that tells me the people in charge of this company are very likely related to TPTB, be it directly or indirectly.

Well I’m not TPTB (nor a Zionist) but many people will be providing their face photos and video interview in our altcoin project (but I am not alluding to any token sale). Sometimes business leaders have to comply so they do not incriminate themselves.

Come to think of it. The Chinese people are simply not intellectually nor technically competent enough

Actually the North East Asians (Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese) have a higher average IQ than Europeans. But Europeans have a flatter bell curve so there are more idiots and more geniuses than East Asians.

Perhaps they’re not yet as savvy as the Americans in terms of consumer software creation, but they are catching up fast.

A person that I personally know mentioned to me that Bitmain is actually an Israeli company. So I wouldn't be surprised that China's success and dominance in bitcoin and bitcoin mining is not without very strong support from Israeli.

That seems plausible. I would like to see some evidence.

You just look at speeches given by Roger Ver and Jihan Wu and you can immediately tell they are totally not cut out for all these. Stupid people cannot be on top unless they are supported by the powers above them. Roger Ver, Jihan Wu and many others are very likely just public figureheads to play out the exact dramas that TPTB wants them to.

Roger Ver is a semi-smart person (not super smart but not a dunce) who apparently bought a lot of Bitcoins when they cost only pennies.
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October 07, 2017, 11:10:07 PM
 #107

Not all governments ban bitcoin because they don't know what to do with this invention. Ignore use cryptocurrency, they can not. There is a constant outflow of investment into the cryptocurrency.

You may be correct. See my reply to @Dorky above. It’s possible that government will also want some of the spoils.




So, outright dismissing Bitcoin and thinking that God is against it automatically because God has no need for it on earth or in heaven, it irrelevant to the actually argument at hand. The issue is not whether Bitcoin or money is good or bad, the issue was whether Bitcoin could provide a path of escape from the system that will come that is oppressive and all consuming.

Actually I agree with this and I had written many times over the past years, that I think Bitcoin would spawn an altcoin that will do what you say. And I believe possibly I am the one who is creating that altcoin. Certainly I am working on a decentralized ledger design which is revolutionary and different than proof-of-work and proof-of-stake. So we’ll see what transpires.

Of course from a theological perspective, God could fool Satan very easily and use Satan’s own hand to create what God wants.

The theory of the rapture contradicts the Judgment and Jesus's and the old testament prophet's teachings. The only humans who were allowed to be taken away prior to the Judgment were Elijah and Enoch. All others sleep till the Judgment. The rapture is not in theological conformance […]

This crap is debated endlessly on the Internet and it doesn’t matter any way, because it offers no testable prediction (you must rely on it purely on faith and with uncertain timing). What ever happens happens. We’ll find out when we get there.

I believe I clearly stated that Bitcoin could be a path provided, that can exist outside of the One World System. Some people will be able to live through the "Antichrist's" reign, yet will not accept the mark. These are the people who will endure till the end, without blemish. Everything I am referring to is prior to the Son of Man returning. I never said anything about heaven, or money in heaven, or any other such ridiculousness.

So, you must ask yourself, how can these people survive in this oppressive world and not directly participate in that world? How will God provide for them, as he has always done? How will they buy and sell without conforming to the One World System? It is possible another system is provided for them? These are the question I ask.

Indeed we thought you were referring to the end game of it all. Now I understand you’re referring to the utility of earthly apparatus while we’re still stuck on earth. I have no objections other than it doesn’t necessarily have to be Bitcoin.



Everything you said contradicts the Book of Revelation too. Things can be forced onto you without you even realizing it directly. If the government makes your fiat money worthless, you are forced to find a solution and take action. Otherwise, you suffer and die.

What @AgentofCoin means is that even if Bitcoin is under complete control of the Zionists, then perhaps an altcoin will come which they do not control.
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October 07, 2017, 11:55:57 PM
 #108

So, outright dismissing Bitcoin and thinking that God is against it automatically because God has no need for it on earth or in heaven, it irrelevant to the actually argument at hand. The issue is not whether Bitcoin or money is good or bad, the issue was whether Bitcoin could provide a path of escape from the system that will come that is oppressive and all consuming.
Actually I agree with this and I had written many times over the past years, that I think Bitcoin would spawn an altcoin that will do what you say. And I believe possibly I am the one who is creating that altcoin. Certainly I am working on a decentralized ledger design which is revolutionary and different than proof-of-work and proof-of-stake. So we’ll see what transpires.

Of course from a theological perspective, God could fool Satan very easily and use Satan’s own hand to create what God wants.

Yes, even Satan is a proxy of God.

So, if that proxy has rebelled by his own will or that of God's,
and is attempting to prove God to be invalid and unworthy of
admiration and love, ultimately God can turn his best malicious
ideas and device against him and his workings. That is possible
and thus why the rebellion will ultimately fail, which Satan already
knows, but is still bound to perform.



The theory of the rapture contradicts the Judgment and Jesus's and the old testament prophet's teachings. The only humans who were allowed to be taken away prior to the Judgment were Elijah and Enoch. All others sleep till the Judgment. The rapture is not in theological conformance […]
This crap is debated endlessly on the Internet and it doesn’t matter any way, because it offers no testable prediction (you must rely on it purely on faith and with uncertain timing). What ever happens happens. We’ll find out when we get there.

Yes I agree, whatever happens will happen, and we will find out
eventually. But, I'm adding in the following because I assume some
will be upset I said the rapture is not real, so here is my reasoning
why I think such, for the record. It is not to be offensive, but for
considerations.

For theological elaboration: the rapture would in theory be a
selection of humans who God had determined should not proceed
through the Tribulations, as a special selective group. This is not
fair, and in order to prove that God is fair, loving, and just,
throughout existence and during the determination of the
judgments, all those who are living must go through the
process of Tribulation equally. No human is actually judged by
God or his proxies, until the time of the Judgment in front of the
whole world. The Rapture group would convey that there has
been a secret prejudgment. So, the rapture would be a
contradiction of God's plan to prove his validity in a public and
provable manner. It would mean God has partiality among his
children, which is not true. In fact, he loves his children so
much, he even gives them a roadmap and signs of the times,
which are devices that allow for provability at that future
appointed time.



I believe I clearly stated that Bitcoin could be a path provided, that can exist outside of the One World System. Some people will be able to live through the "Antichrist's" reign, yet will not accept the mark. These are the people who will endure till the end, without blemish. Everything I am referring to is prior to the Son of Man returning. I never said anything about heaven, or money in heaven, or any other such ridiculousness.

So, you must ask yourself, how can these people survive in this oppressive world and not directly participate in that world? How will God provide for them, as he has always done? How will they buy and sell without conforming to the One World System? It is possible another system is provided for them? These are the question I ask.
Indeed we thought you were referring to the end game of it all. Now I understand you’re referring to the utility of earthly apparatus while we’re still stuck on earth. I have no objections other than it doesn’t necessarily have to be Bitcoin.

Yes, I am talking about the physical world and would never
intentionally contradict what is written in the book. I am only
attempting to unify and bring logic to both the Bitcoin system
and the Bible, which may be a prophetic device of the future,
and thus Bitcoin''s existence in conjunction with that possibility,
must be ascertained and rectified prior to the events that will
occur. All possibilities must be entertained.


I am glad we have found common ground in some areas.

I support a decentralized & unregulatable ledger first, with safe scaling over time.
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October 08, 2017, 12:05:55 AM
 #109

The current monetary system is bound to collapse. Greece already went down, Japan too. India made all cash worthless. The US government can't no longer sustain its own debt. Monetary system only last an average of 30-40 years. The current monetary system is already at 40.

With that said. Bitcoin along with other cryptos will replace fiat. The technology will keep expanding, in fact we already see this as now you can buy plane tickets, order food, and many other great things. Of course, new implementation of something so complexed as is the adoption of a new monetary system takes many years so we are not there yet; however, as more time passes, you can easily see how the usage of the technology has been increasing steadily around the globe.

Many great things to come and this is why bitcoin can't be stopped. The best that govt. can do is adopt the technology which they will find a way to implemented in the best way that will benefit themselves of course.
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October 08, 2017, 12:40:06 AM
 #110

I am glad we have found common ground in some areas.

Ditto. Apologies for some of my remarks being so stern. My intention was only that you not ignore the significance of my technical perspective on Satoshi’s design and those videos about how powerful the Zionists have become given they could slaughter 2700+ people at 9/11. Of course 9/11 also had a Godly purpose as it opened so many people’s eyes to the importance studying Revelation.

Your rapture debunking thesis is inspirational, but aren’t the 2700 slaughtered by Satan already raptured? Or are they waiting in purgatory interim?

At least the pain they suffered wasn’t for an extended period of time.
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October 08, 2017, 01:17:34 AM
 #111

You obviously have missed my point.
Either I have explained myself incorrectly due to my limitations
or you are incapable of understanding what I have said. At no
time did I say anything that you think I said.


. . .


I see your point now.
You are right.
Yes, God is neutral on money and bitcoin.
In the end, it boils down to your own personal growth that determines if you yourself are for / against money/bitcoin, not God.
Money/bitcoin is only here manifested to facilitate your growth.
If your growth is mature enough, you wouldn't need money/bitcoin.
Otherwise, you will remain in need of it, in order to learn and grow.
Personally I would say a highly evolved person will not be attracted to money/bitcoin.


Now, when I reached this final paragraph of yours, I disagree with your points.
The issue is not whether Bitcoin or money is good or bad, the issue was
whether Bitcoin could provide a path of escape from the system
that will come that is oppressive and all consuming. My argument
was that Bitcoin could be another path, opposite from the One
World Currency that is to come, that the entity always provides
for humanity so that not all must fall in the end, but some shall
survive and overcome, as like with Lot.

How do you know bitcoin is the path of escape?
Who told you that?
Who told you that bitcoin is the only path available and there is no other way that is non-bitcoin?
Who told you that bitcoin will not ultimately end up oppressive and consuming as well?
Who told you that bitcoin is the opposite of the One World Currency, and not actually be a part of it?
Who told you that bitcoin will provide for your survival?
Are you sure these are facts and not merely personal interpretation of your own?
And what survival are you talking about?
Physical survival?
Spiritual survival?
In my personal opinion, both cases have no need for money/bitcoin.

You assume bitcoin will provide you the means of survival outside the One World Currency system, am I right?
Your assumption may be 100% wrong.
In case you want to bring up the Bible, I believe the Bible never imply such future where you will survive on another currency.

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October 08, 2017, 01:37:47 AM
 #112

So, you must ask yourself, how can these people survive in
this oppressive world and not directly participate in that world?
How will God provide for them, as he has always done? How
will they buy and sell without conforming to the One World
System? It is possible another system is provided for them?
These are the question I ask.

You are money-bound.
You seek for a better monetary system whereby you can continue on with your material pursue.
Why are you asking for another monetary system to be provided for you, when the fact is no monetary system can be fair?
The problem is not having a problematic monetary system.
The problem is humans are unfair and not trustworthy.
And that's why the monetary system is created (or provided) to facilitate human unfairness.
That's why bitcoin is created (or provided) to facilitate human untrustworthiness.
The real problem is not the system that humans should really address.
The real problem is the human nature of being unfair and untrustworthy.
If humans can solve their nature of being unfair and untrustworthy, i.e. to become fair and trustworthy, no monetary system whatsoever would even be needed at all.
There is no such system provided for you that will actually be much better than the existing one.
The system that is actually much better is the one that you (and everyone else) are currently not ready to accept.

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October 08, 2017, 01:51:07 AM
 #113

Why are you asking for another monetary system to be provided for you, when the fact is no monetary system can be fair?

As long as we can use the tokens to run the decentralized ledger and get all the benefits thereof (e.g. Ethereum apps), who cares if the distribution of the money supply is fair.

The design of my decentralized ledger attempts to make the distribution of the money supply irrelevant (unlike in proof-of-stake) and there is no mining!

Something totally new is coming…
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October 08, 2017, 01:53:15 AM
 #114

Hyperme.sh, thank you very much for your time in giving your inputs.  Cheesy

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October 08, 2017, 02:01:45 AM
 #115

As long as we can use the tokens to run the decentralized ledger and get all the benefits thereof (e.g. Ethereum apps), who cares if the distribution of the money supply is fair.

The design of my decentralized ledger attempts to make the distribution of the money supply irrelevant (unlike in proof-of-stake) and there is no mining!

Something totally new is coming…

No, I wasn't referring specifically to the distribution of money supply as some aspect that is fair or unfair.
I meant the entire monetary system itself, any monetary system.
Because whatever the monetary system, it mainly seeks to facilitate human unfair and untrustworthy natures the best it can.
In my sincere opinion, the best system is not a system that seeks to facilitate such natures (unfair and untrustworthy) but to resolve the natures themselves.
Because ultimately it is no use to help a criminal not to harm another with all sorts of rules in place, but to help him realize where he went wrong in life, and help him resolve his inner grudge.
Once he resolves his inner grudge, he will stop being any criminal that he can potentially be as long as his grudge remains.
And if human natures of being unfair and untrustworthy are resolved, no monetary system will ever be needed.
If such natures are not resolved, no financial/monetary system will ever work nor everlasting.
If you notice, a massively huge part of everything everyone does, concentrates on minimizing/eliminating unfair and untrustworthy outcomes.
It makes no difference with whatever a new system will bring, as long as such human nature continue to persist.
If such human nature ceases to exist, i.e. humans become fair and trustworthy, then no system whatsoever is needed.

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October 08, 2017, 02:25:43 AM
 #116

As long as we can use the tokens to run the decentralized ledger and get all the benefits thereof (e.g. Ethereum apps), who cares if the distribution of the money supply is fair.

The design of my decentralized ledger attempts to make the distribution of the money supply irrelevant (unlike in proof-of-stake) and there is no mining!

Something totally new is coming…

No, I wasn't referring specifically to the distribution of money supply as some aspect that is fair or unfair.
I meant the entire monetary system itself, any monetary system.
Because whatever the monetary system, it mainly seeks to facilitate human unfair and untrustworthy natures the best it can.
In my sincere opinion, the best system is not a system that seeks to facilitate such natures (unfair and untrustworthy) but to resolve the natures themselves.
Because ultimately it is no use to help a criminal not to harm another with all sorts of rules in place, but to help him realize where he went wrong in life, and help him resolve his inner grudge.
Once he resolves his inner grudge, he will stop being any criminal that he can potentially be as long as his grudge remains.
And if human natures of being unfair and untrustworthy are resolved, no monetary system will ever be needed.
If such natures are not resolved, no financial/monetary system will ever work nor everlasting.
If you notice, a massively huge part of everything everyone does, concentrates on minimizing/eliminating unfair and untrustworthy outcomes.
It makes no difference with whatever a new system will bring, as long as such human nature continue to persist.
If such human nature ceases to exist, i.e. humans become fair and trustworthy, then no system whatsoever is needed.

What I’m thinking about in the above comment is the Inverse Commons that @iamnotback used to write about. You might want to check his archives.

The monetary system of the token becomes more and more irrelevant. The utility of the Inverse Commons on the decentralized ledger becomes the value of the system.
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October 08, 2017, 02:48:07 AM
 #117

AgentofCoin I enjoyed reading your back and forth with Hyperme.sh

I found your reasoning and positions to be very interesting. Thanks for taking the time to post them.

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October 08, 2017, 02:51:24 AM
 #118

What I’m thinking about in the above comment is the Inverse Commons that @iamnotback used to write about. You might want to check his archives.

The monetary system of the token becomes more and more irrelevant. The utility of the Inverse Commons on the decentralized ledger becomes the value of the system.

As long as an exchange of value between 2 persons is in place in the equation, human nature will prevail and somehow something that we don't know now will screw up in one way or another, i.e. someone will find a way to make your project fail or game it.

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October 08, 2017, 02:51:37 AM
 #119

Lol "all it would take is a 51% or a new law" . You do realize how much hashing power would be needed for a 51% attack right? Who the hell is going to get that at this point!?!?

In terms of a "new law" , ok well if bitcoins were declared illegal in your country, would you all of a sudden not be able to use them? Of course not!! Don't think that people are as cut off and stupid as they used to be. The internet has given us so many freedoms and this is the next step.














 

 

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Dorky
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October 08, 2017, 05:46:54 AM
 #120

You guys need to realize the main reason why you are into bitcoin.

No, it is not because of store of value.

If the price goes down to $100, I can bet you will never talk about store of value.

Now, you may even foolishly say that you would likely buy it with everything you have hand over fist.

But I am very confident if such collapse will really happen, your action will totally contradict what you say now.

The reason why you guys really into bitcoin is only because of 2 (two) reasons: persistently rising price level, and the opportunity to be out of government's control.

Everything else like store of value, digital gold, etc are merely excuses to justify your action.

Persistently rising price is not because of your merit, but because of having exchanges in place to facilitate transactions that drive the price up.

Take the exchanges out of the equation and you will see everything collapses, regardless of store of value BS nonsense.

The opportunity to be out of government's control is another excuse to get you into bitcoin.

Soon everything will be as regulated as everything else, and it will make no difference.

Bitcoin will make everyone seriously fucking rich, but in exchange for material bondage that almost everyone will very willingly accept for worldly pleasure.

You cannot serve 2 masters at the same time.

In Buddhism, it mentioned a Dharma-Ending Age whereby the world will be very screwed up.

We are already in the beginning of such age, which was stated to last around 10,000 years.

You think you are entering a golden age?

You are sold the kool-aid.

True liberation is always spiritual, never material.

Ancient spiritual masters were all materially and financially poor and yet they are highly evolved with supernormal abilities.

They led a very happy and satisfying life compare to today's people that are far richer and yet full of worries and woes.

I am not asking you to be poor, but rather ask yourself how rich do you really want.

A massive chunk of the multimillions, multibillions, and multitrillions of the wealth a person can have is not even needed except for the sole purpose of excess.

Wanting something for the sole purpose of just trying to have more of it is an inherent defect of the human species that nothing (not even bitcoin) can solve.

Don't even talk about store of value, etc BS nonsense that's nothing but excuses.

In exchange for having in excess what you don't really need and will not last beyond a lifetime, you incur heavy sins that make sure your next rebirth in this world (because that's where your heart lies) will be on a very rotten foundation.

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October 08, 2017, 09:38:15 AM
 #121

What I’m thinking about in the above comment is the Inverse Commons that @iamnotback used to write about. You might want to check his archives.

The monetary system of the token becomes more and more irrelevant. The utility of the Inverse Commons on the decentralized ledger becomes the value of the system.

As long as an exchange of value between 2 persons is in place in the equation, human nature will prevail and somehow something that we don't know now will screw up in one way or another, i.e. someone will find a way to make your project fail or game it.

Please do not make me repeat again that your points are irrelevant to @iamnotback’s theory of the applicability of the Inverse Commons, assuming his theory is correct. I urge to read his archives before commenting further on something you have not read.
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October 08, 2017, 10:01:21 AM
 #122

A person that I personally know mentioned to me that Bitmain is actually an Israeli company. So I wouldn't be surprised that China's success and dominance in bitcoin and bitcoin mining is not without very strong support from Israeli.

That seems plausible. I would like to see some evidence.

I've asked the person regarding this. It was from cointelegraph article which I double checked was about Bitmain's first R&D center to be located outside China, that is Israel. No mention about Bitmain being an Israeli company. Nevertheless, I still will not disregard the idea that China's first-mover advances in bitcoin mining is not without the help of TPTB in some way or another. Just look at the quality of the mining hardware and compare it to where Chinese quality and engineering standards were back in 2009-2011. Even today, Chinese quality and engineering standards are where they are with very significant help of joint venture with foreign companies. To think that a company like Bitmain founded by Jihan Wu who make speeches with very broken English while referring to the smartphone for the script and once awhile mentioned Greek/Roman philosophers (being a Chinese, why not refer to Lao Tzu, Sun Tzu, or Confucious?) would actually develop the mining hardware with the necessary engineering capabilities to attain such mining effectiveness and efficiency without the commonly heard of defects that anyone would normally get from a Made In China product, on its own without the help of some high-tech foreign partner is totally 100% fake news.

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October 08, 2017, 10:34:51 AM
 #123

It seems to me that the world is changing. The existing global economic system built by the Americans and designed so that the economies of all countries are working to enrich America. This prevents development of all countries and thus gives the opportunity for America to live well with the largest public debt in the world. Bitcoin can change this situation but it creates a certain threat to the economy of each country. The rush to ban it. They look at everyone the pluses and minuses.

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October 08, 2017, 10:44:37 AM
 #124

Please do not make me repeat again that your points are irrelevant to @iamnotback’s theory of the applicability of the Inverse Commons, assuming his theory is correct. I urge to read his archives before commenting further on something you have not read.

I apologize for not reading it first before commenting. I've done the reading now. Correct me if I am wrong, the main idea is to make participants in a system to be willingly contribute without the thought of monetary compensation in which the contribution will benefit the whole. One hypothesis is to make sure there is minimal obstructions for such contribution to be made as hassle-free as possible. However you have yet to find an economic way to actually incentivize the participants to actually contribute "free of charge". Additionally, this is still an incomplete research into the ideal system that you envision to reach. Am I right?

J. Random Hacker (JRH) will release the patch if he is wise enough to realize that ultimately he will also benefit from his own patch, but he can also do a "hard fork" of the system with his patch as improvement and put his own label on the new and improved version and be sold under his own brand and earn the economic value he so desire. I believe that would actually be done by a highly enterprising and resourceful individual. And so there are 2 challenges this JRH faces. First, he can choose to be lazy, forget whatever economic value he is entitled to for his patch, release the patch and just be contented with the benefit he receive from it, i.e. be a lazy bum that happens to care. Second, he can choose to go real tough by being hardworking and solicit funds to start a company with an improved version of the system (with his patch) and sell it commercially, reaping the value for himself completely, i.e. be enterprising. I am not a Linux user but I can see there are many versions of Linux OS. I think the reason why many of these OS are still available for free is because the adoption rate is still extremely low vs Microsoft OS because of its highly technical nature, and charging a fee for just a small improvement on top of a mainly free OS might be self-defeating, unless there are improvements that are very significant and/or the adopting of it grows so large that technical support is not possible unless it goes commercial under a specific brand. So far I have yet to see a Linux OS version that is as user-friendly as Microsoft OS (point-n-click instead of typing command codes), which is a closed-source entity. Since you use Linux as an example, I checked its market share is 5% compare to Microsoft (https://thenextweb.com/dd/2017/10/02/linuxs-market-share-really-doubled-two-months/#.tnw_TmcCxxss). Another source puts the market share much lower at just 3.04% (https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0). Linux, I believe, remain the OS for techies for its security and high customization features (selfish interest, not common interest), not because of anything else. A person may also contribute his patches for the benefit of peer recognition. If I am a techie and Linux has a major problem unsolvable by my tech peers, and I bring forth a patch to solve it, I may not be rich but I bet I will be held in high regard by my peers as some expert. But if I have plenty of patches to make a totally awesome version of Linux, I may very likely start my own company with a much better OS version and become closed-source.

I believe if a system has no significant economic reward on offer, the extend of a person's contribution would remain highly limited.

I admit my previous point was irrelevant to your inverse common, simply because you have yet found an economic incentive for your system.

Edit:
Another thing to add is this.
Linux, being an open-source sort of "community work", took 26 years to get 5% market share, optimistically. Still no compelling market impact.
Bitcoin, being a closed-source sort of TPTB project, took less than 10 years to reach global storm and expected to continue growing exponentially until it totally displaces conventional system.
This is one point that is pro closed-source.

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October 08, 2017, 12:42:34 PM
 #125

There is no government stopping bitcoin because many more earn money. Many will invest in bitcoin to make it easier to find money. In my opinion, maybe russia and china do not know how important it is, bitcoin has a big affect in every country because it can help in every's economy to be more abundant and especially if the bitcoin would be legal there would be paying of tax.

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October 09, 2017, 02:24:42 AM
 #126

Dork what you thonk of dis:

EDIT: What is really odd is I wrote about Mossad and 9/11 on the same day of the Las Vegas massacre but presciently. I accidentally wrote the 666th reply on the EOS massive scam thread recently.

The Zionists have their false flag fingerprints on the Las Vegas massacre. They’re trying to force Trump deeper into war. Also an attempt to foist more control in USA. Maybe the conspiracy chatter is deception, but it does make one think:



I will edit this post when I have time to reply to your points about the Inverse Commons…
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October 09, 2017, 02:48:01 AM
 #127

Dork what you thonk of dis:

EDIT: The Zionists have their false flag fingerprints on the Las Vegas massacre. They’re trying to force Trump deeper into war. Also an attempt to foist more control in USA.

I will edit this post when I have time to reply to your points about the Inverse Commons…

I thonk...
The Zees are known to have endless false flags on almost every tororis attack, so no surprise.
Tramp is part of the Zees syndicate, a figurehead; there is no need to force, except to make it appears like he is being forced.
They are already in control of USA since looooooong agooooooo...!


I thonk I daw a pudding cat.

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October 09, 2017, 03:35:12 AM
 #128

You need to understand the human nature if you want explanation or solution to a system / problem.

Human nature is selfish, along with everything else that comes with it, including being unfair and untrustworthy.

It has absolutely NOTHING to do with any system/protocol.

If a system cannot be gamed to fulfill human selfish needs, then this system will not exist on earth, no matter how perfect/ideal it is.

If a system can be gamed to fulfill human selfish needs, then this system will solidify its place on earth, no matter how flawed it is.

To strive for a flawless system/protocol is like barking at the wrong tree.

A system has no problem.

The problem is with the human nature.

If you want a prospering community of cockroaches, you don't try to build heaven for this community; it can't thrive in clean environment.

Instead, you build a smelly slum.