Wall Observer: BTC/USD Price Tracking and Discussion 2.0 (Unmoderated)

[JayJuanGee]

The most bullish thing going right now is litecoin, and it will continue to move up and outpace bitcoin's upward advance. I see bitcoin going into mid to high $4K either later this month or early next. Then correct and do another ATH in September. 5 digits sometime after the New Year. This upcoming RMBcoin out of China will likely come out later next yr or early 2019 and will drive bitcoin to $30K-$60K and beyond as it will need to be purchased w/ bitcoin. Might drive us into 6 figures, just sayin.

That sounds really strange if a government coin would require bitcoin to be acquired.

Do you have a link to reference that?

Anyone?

[infofront]

The most bullish thing going right now is litecoin, and it will continue to move up and outpace bitcoin's upward advance. I see bitcoin going into mid to high $4K either later this month or early next. Then correct and do another ATH in September. 5 digits sometime after the New Year. This upcoming RMBcoin out of China will likely come out later next yr or early 2019 and will drive bitcoin to $30K-$60K and beyond as it will need to be purchased w/ bitcoin. Might drive us into 6 figures, just sayin.

That sounds really strange if a government coin would require bitcoin to be acquired.

Do you have a link to reference that?

Anyone?

It seems to me that the point of a government coin would be to keep people away from Bitcoin.

[infofront]

[JayJuanGee]

The most bullish thing going right now is litecoin, and it will continue to move up and outpace bitcoin's upward advance. I see bitcoin going into mid to high $4K either later this month or early next. Then correct and do another ATH in September. 5 digits sometime after the New Year. This upcoming RMBcoin out of China will likely come out later next yr or early 2019 and will drive bitcoin to $30K-$60K and beyond as it will need to be purchased w/ bitcoin. Might drive us into 6 figures, just sayin.

That sounds really strange if a government coin would require bitcoin to be acquired.

Do you have a link to reference that?

Anyone?

It seems to me that the point of a government coin would be to keep people away from Bitcoin.

More or less, that's what I am saying. 

It seems that governments don't quite know what to do with bitcoin, yet I don't know because there are some governments that are appearing to be more receptive to bitcoin than others, for example Japan or the Isle of Mann.

It could be possible that in China, there is a bit of ambiguity regarding how to approach bitcoin, and even one part of government does not approach the matter in the same kind of way as another part of the government - which seems to happen within the various governmental entities in the USA, where one agency says it is a currency and another agency says its an asset.. and just some passive aggressive hostilities, too.

Anyhow, given some of China's seemingly historical hostilities towards aspects of bitcoin including going after miners, going after exchanges and even some seemingly heavy handed concerns about capital controls, I have difficulties wrapping my head around some kind of system in China that would contemplate some kind of harmonic interplay between a government issued currency and bitcoin...

[r0ach]

Never believed in ETH... and never will. I'm sceptical AF!!!

Couldn't the same be said of Bitcoin holders though? I am an avid BTC holder myself.

Yes it could. But Bitcoin is not a mere 2 years old and price moonshot from $0.50 to $400 virtually overnight. It took years and years to build a devoted following of firm believers (holders, users, merchants). Bitcoin also has all of the core fundamental attributes of sound money (eg, not-premined, fair launch, capped, deflationary, POW mining, secure, etc.) that many of the other cryptocurrencies and tokens do not have.

Why anyone would support a cryptocurrency that lacks even some of the fundamental attributes of sound money to begin with is beyond me. That to me is rationalizing something irrational/illogical due to simply a rising price.

Simply having a rising price != sound money, nor does it mean or imply greater adoption in the future. Greater adoption over a longer timeline (decades) requires belief, and belief first requires firm attributes of sound money, which is the platform infrastructure on which belief is built. This forms a 'belief feedback loop' that builds with exponentially more and more people over time.

Gold and Silver went through the same process, the belief started somewhere with just a few people, and then eventually over hundreds and thousands of years formed the "shared hallucination" that all of mankind have today that Gold and Silver are valuable.

This will also happen with Bitcoin over time. The other cryptos will fall away into irrelevance or merely PnD penny stock like crap that no one will have any long term belief in.

Oh... what??... I heard some weird clunky scratchy noises on the floor!!! .. Hmmm... I think the r0ach police is coming to install some distrust in your theory!!! ... Run... the precious metal police is coming!!

Noble metals aren't money by coincidence or mass hallucination, they're money because the most ideal form of money would be a metastable object 100% convertable to energy like a block of energy from the transformers.  Since humans don't have things like that, and it's difficult to transfer buckets of oil around without inducing high counter party risk, the next best thing is a durable, scarce, fungible, portable form of matter because getting rid of counter party risk is an even higher importance than convertibility to energy, and matter is a representation of energy anyway.  

Out of all the forms of matter on the planet, to connect the past to future in a constant ledger it has to be very durable to transfer generational wealth, so a noble metal generally had to be used over something like...wood.  Gold doesn't react to oxygen so it immediately became the #1 candidate as money due to it's stability, but gold alone isn't enough to get rid of counter party risk, so silver is generally always used with it. Even copper will be used to increase granularity further under a full metal standard.

As for bitcoin, it's a currency, not money, and does not have the traits to defeat noble metals as the base of Exter's pyramid such as...I don't know...not even existing in the first place except in your imagination.

[Torque]

Noble metals aren't money by coincidence or mass hallucination, they're money because the most ideal form of money would be a metastable object 100% convertable to energy like a block of energy from the transformers.  Since humans don't have things like that, and it's difficult to transfer buckets of oil around without inducing high counter party risk, the next best thing is a durable, scarce, fungible, portable form of matter because getting rid of counter party risk is an even higher importance than convertibility to energy, and matter is a representation of energy anyway.  

The first few humans on this earth weren't "evaluating" a bunch of shiny metal rocks dug out of the ground based on your reasoning above. They literally just thought they were pretty, and also noticed they were rare. They also found that they could melt them down and make baubles and jewelry with them. So they decided to start bartering with them.

The mass hallucination of belief in PMs having value storage merely developed from there. Over time Gold and Silver came to be associated with gods and wealth. Their value to mankind grew, but the value process took hundreds and thousands of years to develop and reinforce.  Now people think PMs have their monetary value "because my dad and my great Grandpa thought so" or "because Banks, Governments, and Sovereign Countries think so". Hence the self-reinforcing belief feedback loop that I spoke of.

It won't take Bitcoin nearly that long. In a decade, people will already be saying that Bitcoin has value "because it has been around and valuable for 20 years" or "because my dad/mom thought so" or "because [wealthy people/banks/countries] think so".

[savetherainforest]

Noble metals aren't money by coincidence or mass hallucination, they're money because the most ideal form of money would be a metastable object 100% convertable to energy like a block of energy from the transformers.  Since humans don't have things like that, and it's difficult to transfer buckets of oil around without inducing high counter party risk, the next best thing is a durable, scarce, fungible, portable form of matter because getting rid of counter party risk is an even higher importance than convertibility to energy, and matter is a representation of energy anyway.  

The first few humans on this earth weren't "evaluating" a bunch of shiny metal rocks dug out of the ground based on your reasoning above. They literally thought they were pretty, and also noticed they were rare. So they decided to start bartering with them.

The mass hallucination of belief in PMs having value storage merely developed from there. Over time the noble metals came to be associated with gods and wealth. Their value to mankind grew, but the value process tooks hundreds and thousands of years to develop and reinforce.  Now people think PMs have their monetary value "because my dad and my great Grandpa thought so" or "because Banks, Governments, and Sovereign Countries think so". Hence the self-reinforcing belief feedback loop that I spoke of.

It won't take Bitcoin nearly that long.

His problem is the fact that he thinks that there won't be created some more robots or some country won't decide to go all apesh!t on their mountains and flood the market with gold & silver.  And if technology will go supersonic in its evolution... well sh!t... then we have at least 20 planets to mine in our Solar System... like for example some of the moons of Jupiter or Saturn are the same size of Mars. So wtf are we talking here about?? A store of value for 5-10 years maximum then it will go down to sh!t again??

[yefi]

Theymos has thrown up a poll now for who should be in charge of the original WO thread. Place your votes:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2004227.0

[Torque]

Good ol' MSM, keeping up the negative image pressure and fear spreading on cryptocurrency:

http://www.businessinsider.com/south-korean-bitcoin-exchange-bithumb-hacked-ethereum-2017-7

Here's some choice excerpts:

"Some Bithumb users were reportedly victims of 'phishing,' where someone phoned them up saying they worked for Bithumb and scammed them out of funds."

"The incident underscores the fact that it is not just investors and digital currency enthusiasts who are excited by the current surge of interest in cryptocurrencies. Criminals are also eyeing up businesses that hold bitcoin and its sister currencies, and no-one can promise absolute security."


The MSM just refuse to ever print anything positive about Bitcoin/crypto unless it's talk about a price rally. Even then, the articles are always full of negatives, and usually end with a negative.

[Last of the V8s]

^from same fishwrap http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-grenades-ammo-stolen-in-daring-raid-at-portugal-army-depot-2017-6?r=UK&IR=T
via @TheFewBlog
Fellows seem to be stocking up on toys.
This is good news for bitcoin.

[infofront]

Sounds like some of those Syrian refugees have been taking advantage of Portugal's hospitality.

[JimboToronto]

Good morning Bitcoinland.

It seems our sideways coiling consolidation is continuing... currently $2587USD (Bitcoinaverage). Summer doldrums?
______

After a fairly good start, the phoenix thread appears to be losing traction (due to excessive moderating) while this thread seems to be growing.

I guess I'll be posting here until Theymos figures out what to do with the old Wall Observer.

I was under the impression that the reason the old WO thread was locked was that Adam wasn't able to self-moderate and it was becoming a pain for the global moderators. I thought that a totally unmoderated thread would be killed quickly but they seem to be leaving this one alone.

Maybe it's just because they're waiting to see what happens with the old one. Everyone voted yet? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2004227.0)

[Biro Bob]

Theymos has thrown up a poll now for who should be in charge of the original WO thread. Place your votes:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2004227.0

I'm happy to carry on using this one.

** Edit: I don't see why we need to be moderated or moved to the off-topic section. The Wall Observer thread is well known for it's off topic and off the wall comments. It also well known as the most viewed and posted thread in  the Speculation section (and possibly the entire forum).

The title says (Unmoderated) - Most people seem to like it. If anyone finds that hard to accept, then let them post in a different thread.

[Meuh6879]

Maybe it's just because they're waiting to see what happens with the old one.

Agree. 

[Syke]

It seems our sideways coiling consolidation is continuing... currently $2587USD (Bitcoinaverage). Summer doldrums?

~2600 is a pretty nice place to consolidate.

[snipie]

It seems our sideways coiling consolidation is continuing... currently $2587USD (Bitcoinaverage). Summer doldrums?

~2600 is a pretty nice place to consolidate.

$2600 is a good consolidating level however the price was doing very well few weeks ago with a huge rising every day. We kind lost the previous rally, hope to see another one after this a little long consolidation 

[Last of the V8s]

https://twitter.com/Beautyon_/status/882520743560589312
@Beautyon_ 9h9 hours ago
Operation "Autism Storm" and UASF are two fronts in a culture war. MSM liars and Bankster Statists vs everyone. Something BIG is coming.



sorry, bored. things pretty bullish on twatter, though

[yefi]

I'm happy to carry on using this one.

** Edit: I don't see why we need to be moderated or moved to the off-topic section. The Wall Observer thread is well known for it's off topic and off the wall comments. It also well known as the most viewed and posted thread in  the Speculation section (and possibly the entire forum).

The title says (Unmoderated) - Most people seem to like it. If anyone finds that hard to accept, then let them post in a different thread.

There's probably been a temporary relaxing of the rules towards these threads until the original one is restored. Without any explicit grant of immunity from Theymos, you definitely shouldn't assume this thread has a future.

Also, you pretty much have what you're asking for if you voted for one of the guys who promises light-touch moderation - I mean infofront is one of the freaking candidates.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

If Lauda wins this thing I won't go near it. 

[savetherainforest]

If Lauda wins this thing I won't go near it.  

That Lauda tyrant probably voted with all 3 of his accounts...