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[dnaleor]

I addressed it 6 months ago, what exactly has changed since then?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=199685.msg11221343#msg11221343

There is more information.
Specifically about the pre-launch of DASH (XCoin back then): Evan was looking for C++ devs to launch a "for profit startup", an "altcoin that will provide a very useful service to the whole crypto-coin ecosystem". (his words)

Given the debate here, it's probably best to take the significantly premined mark off of Dash until we can figure out a more appropriate solution.  I agree that instamine is not the same as premine.

I see a few options here:
1) Change label to "Significantly mined around launch" or something among those lines
2) Make an instamine label
3) Not care about tracking instamine

I'm preferring #3 because "instamine" is not a well defined term and can be applied subjectively.

I propose to change labels as follows:
Coin¹ Not Mineable (MAID, ...)
Coin² Fastmine, announced before launch (Blackoin, ...)
Coin³ Premined, announced before launch (Gulden, ...)
Coin⁴ ICO (Ethereum, ...)
Coin⁵ Proof of Burn (XCP, ...)
Coin⁶ Premine/Instamine: significantly mined around launch, not announced before launch

Coins could get different tags, some examples:
NXT^{1, 4}
Ethereum^{3, 4}
Blackcoin^{1, 2}
Counterparty^{1, 5}
Dash⁶

Read my post from a few days ago for more info:

I want to ask you to reconsider adding the **-tag to DASH:

2013-12-29: 2 guys from Hawk Financial Group, Evan & Kyle, are asking on the Bitcoin Dev mailing list for "1 or 2 really good C++ programmer that is familiar with the bitcoin internals to help with a for-profit startup". They are planning to build a unique coin that is "not just a clone of the original Bitcoin code" but in stead "a merge-mined altcoin that will provide a very useful service to the whole crypto-coin ecosystem". They claim to have "detailed plans on how to implement it".

2014-01-18 There were some issues at launch, so Evan said he would postpone the launch and would "definitely not" launch it in the next hours. But he did launch it a few hours later.

2014-01-19 Xcoin was launched.
This was the emission in the first 72 hours of the coins existence:

This was the emission of the first 100 days:

At the moment, there are about 6 million DASH in circulation. There would be 84 million Xcoins eventually.
Note that in the first hour, 500k Xcoins were mined. Due to the "quick fix" of the bug, not many people expected to launch a few hours after Evan said he would "definitely not" launch in the next hours.

2014-01-19 Right after the launch, there were problems with the window binaries. Evan clearly was mining right from the start, as he offered 5000 Xcoin as a bounty for compiling the binaries.

2014-01-20 After the emission of almost 2 million coins, Evan said that "now that everything is stable, I'll be posting later about the vision of this project and milestones!". Up until this point, only the "X11 hashing algoritm" was a known feature. According to him, it was "time to move on to actually implementing what I set out to do".

2014-01-22 Evan releases his plans for XCoin. At this point, more than 2 million coins were mined.

---

Later on, some contradictions surfaced:

* The emission schedule changed multiple times. The latest we heard is that the number of coins would be somewhere between 14 million and like 16 million DASH.
* Evan said that this project was just a hobby he started while working on a full time job and coded Xcoin in a weekend.
* Evan claims there were hundreds of miners if not thousands when Xcoin launched. Recent investigation showed that there were 124 IP addreses that were mining at the start. 115 of those addresses where Cloudhosting and Dedicated Servers, 9 of them seem to be private/users.106 of them were at Amazon AWS and Microsoft Azure cloud instances.
 
---

Conclusions:
*Evan isn't acting alone, he had/has a team behind him right from the start. It wasn't a hobby. he had a plan to make a profit.
*Evan had plans for his coin right from the start, but didn't release them until after the instamine
*1.5 million coins were mined in the first 8 hours. Most of these coin ended up in his (and his friends) hands. It's very likely the 500k in the first hour were only mined by him with cloudhosting services.
*He lowered the emission later on, to make his relative share of coins bigger.

=> DASH was clearly a planned premine/instamine.

and this one:

I believe that the reason that Dash isn't considered premined is because numerous people were able to mine from launch.  

I expect that the **premine tag was removed because there is no evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, that mining was restricted in any way.

If you look at the facts, it was at least a planned instamine:

Evan was looking for c++ devs for a "for profit startup" at the end of 2013 for the launch of an altcoin.
How can you make a profit by launching an altcoin (and be sure to be able to pay your devs)?
Answer: by premining and/or instamining.
How he did it is pretty easy:
*telling people the release would definitely not be in the next couple of hours and after that do launch it a few hours later
*buggy windows binaries
*a "code error" creating 500k coins in the first hour, >1.5 million in the first 8 hours.

How can this be all an accident and NOT be intentional?

[iCEBREAKER]

I doubt Gliss wants to dig into controversies and make judgement calls.

Let's keep this simple.

Dash has removed the "No Premine" claim from their [ANN] thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.0).

CMC should be updated accordingly, otherwise it is making a judgement/claim that the coin's OP does not.

Q. E. D.

I addressed it 6 months ago, what exactly has changed since then?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=199685.msg11221343#msg11221343

There is more information.
Specifically about the pre-launch of DASH (XCoin back then): Evan was looking for C++ devs to launch a "for profit startup", an "altcoin that will provide a very useful service to the whole crypto-coin ecosystem". (his words)

Given the debate here, it's probably best to take the significantly premined mark off of Dash until we can figure out a more appropriate solution.  I agree that instamine is not the same as premine.

I see a few options here:
1) Change label to "Significantly mined around launch" or something among those lines
2) Make an instamine label
3) Not care about tracking instamine

I'm preferring #3 because "instamine" is not a well defined term and can be applied subjectively.

I propose to change labels as follows:
Coin¹ Not Mineable (MAID, ...)
Coin² Fastmine, announced before launch (Blackoin, ...)
Coin³ Premined, announced before launch (Gulden, ...)
Coin⁴ ICO (Ethereum, ...)
Coin⁵ Proof of Burn (XCP, ...)
Coin⁶ Premine/Instamine: significantly mined around launch, not announced before launch

Coins could get different tags, some examples:
NXT^{1, 4}
Ethereum^{3, 4}
Blackcoin^{1, 2}
Counterparty^{1, 5}
Dash⁶

Read my post from a few days ago for more info:

I want to ask you to reconsider adding the **-tag to DASH:

2013-12-29: 2 guys from Hawk Financial Group, Evan & Kyle, are asking on the Bitcoin Dev mailing list for "1 or 2 really good C++ programmer that is familiar with the bitcoin internals to help with a for-profit startup". They are planning to build a unique coin that is "not just a clone of the original Bitcoin code" but in stead "a merge-mined altcoin that will provide a very useful service to the whole crypto-coin ecosystem". They claim to have "detailed plans on how to implement it".

2014-01-18 There were some issues at launch, so Evan said he would postpone the launch and would "definitely not" launch it in the next hours. But he did launch it a few hours later.

2014-01-19 Xcoin was launched.
This was the emission in the first 72 hours of the coins existence:

This was the emission of the first 100 days:

At the moment, there are about 6 million DASH in circulation. There would be 84 million Xcoins eventually.
Note that in the first hour, 500k Xcoins were mined. Due to the "quick fix" of the bug, not many people expected to launch a few hours after Evan said he would "definitely not" launch in the next hours.

2014-01-19 Right after the launch, there were problems with the window binaries. Evan clearly was mining right from the start, as he offered 5000 Xcoin as a bounty for compiling the binaries.

2014-01-20 After the emission of almost 2 million coins, Evan said that "now that everything is stable, I'll be posting later about the vision of this project and milestones!". Up until this point, only the "X11 hashing algoritm" was a known feature. According to him, it was "time to move on to actually implementing what I set out to do".

2014-01-22 Evan releases his plans for XCoin. At this point, more than 2 million coins were mined.

---

Later on, some contradictions surfaced:

* The emission schedule changed multiple times. The latest we heard is that the number of coins would be somewhere between 14 million and like 16 million DASH.
* Evan said that this project was just a hobby he started while working on a full time job and coded Xcoin in a weekend.
* Evan claims there were hundreds of miners if not thousands when Xcoin launched. Recent investigation showed that there were 124 IP addreses that were mining at the start. 115 of those addresses where Cloudhosting and Dedicated Servers, 9 of them seem to be private/users.106 of them were at Amazon AWS and Microsoft Azure cloud instances.
 
---

Conclusions:
*Evan isn't acting alone, he had/has a team behind him right from the start. It wasn't a hobby. he had a plan to make a profit.
*Evan had plans for his coin right from the start, but didn't release them until after the instamine
*1.5 million coins were mined in the first 8 hours. Most of these coin ended up in his (and his friends) hands. It's very likely the 500k in the first hour were only mined by him with cloudhosting services.
*He lowered the emission later on, to make his relative share of coins bigger.

=> DASH was clearly a planned premine/instamine.

and this one:

I believe that the reason that Dash isn't considered premined is because numerous people were able to mine from launch.  

I expect that the **premine tag was removed because there is no evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, that mining was restricted in any way.

If you look at the facts, it was at least a planned instamine:

Evan was looking for c++ devs for a "for profit startup" at the end of 2013 for the launch of an altcoin.
How can you make a profit by launching an altcoin (and be sure to be able to pay your devs)?
Answer: by premining and/or instamining.
How he did it is pretty easy:
*telling people the release would definitely not be in the next couple of hours and after that do launch it a few hours later
*buggy windows binaries
*a "code error" creating 500k coins in the first hour, >1.5 million in the first 8 hours.

How can this be all an accident and NOT be intentional?

[Taylor05]

I doubt Gliss wants to dig into controversies and make judgement calls.

Let's keep this simple.

Dash has removed the "No Premine" claim from their [ANN] thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.0).

CMC should be updated accordingly, otherwise it is making a judgement/claim that the coin's OP does not.

Q. E. D.

I addressed it 6 months ago, what exactly has changed since then?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=199685.msg11221343#msg11221343

There is more information.
Specifically about the pre-launch of DASH (XCoin back then): Evan was looking for C++ devs to launch a "for profit startup", an "altcoin that will provide a very useful service to the whole crypto-coin ecosystem". (his words)

Given the debate here, it's probably best to take the significantly premined mark off of Dash until we can figure out a more appropriate solution.  I agree that instamine is not the same as premine.

I see a few options here:
1) Change label to "Significantly mined around launch" or something among those lines
2) Make an instamine label
3) Not care about tracking instamine

I'm preferring #3 because "instamine" is not a well defined term and can be applied subjectively.

I propose to change labels as follows:
Coin¹ Not Mineable (MAID, ...)
Coin² Fastmine, announced before launch (Blackoin, ...)
Coin³ Premined, announced before launch (Gulden, ...)
Coin⁴ ICO (Ethereum, ...)
Coin⁵ Proof of Burn (XCP, ...)
Coin⁶ Premine/Instamine: significantly mined around launch, not announced before launch

Coins could get different tags, some examples:
NXT^{1, 4}
Ethereum^{3, 4}
Blackcoin^{1, 2}
Counterparty^{1, 5}
Dash⁶

Read my post from a few days ago for more info:

I want to ask you to reconsider adding the **-tag to DASH:

2013-12-29: 2 guys from Hawk Financial Group, Evan & Kyle, are asking on the Bitcoin Dev mailing list for "1 or 2 really good C++ programmer that is familiar with the bitcoin internals to help with a for-profit startup". They are planning to build a unique coin that is "not just a clone of the original Bitcoin code" but in stead "a merge-mined altcoin that will provide a very useful service to the whole crypto-coin ecosystem". They claim to have "detailed plans on how to implement it".

2014-01-18 There were some issues at launch, so Evan said he would postpone the launch and would "definitely not" launch it in the next hours. But he did launch it a few hours later.

2014-01-19 Xcoin was launched.
This was the emission in the first 72 hours of the coins existence:

This was the emission of the first 100 days:

At the moment, there are about 6 million DASH in circulation. There would be 84 million Xcoins eventually.
Note that in the first hour, 500k Xcoins were mined. Due to the "quick fix" of the bug, not many people expected to launch a few hours after Evan said he would "definitely not" launch in the next hours.

2014-01-19 Right after the launch, there were problems with the window binaries. Evan clearly was mining right from the start, as he offered 5000 Xcoin as a bounty for compiling the binaries.

2014-01-20 After the emission of almost 2 million coins, Evan said that "now that everything is stable, I'll be posting later about the vision of this project and milestones!". Up until this point, only the "X11 hashing algoritm" was a known feature. According to him, it was "time to move on to actually implementing what I set out to do".

2014-01-22 Evan releases his plans for XCoin. At this point, more than 2 million coins were mined.

---

Later on, some contradictions surfaced:

* The emission schedule changed multiple times. The latest we heard is that the number of coins would be somewhere between 14 million and like 16 million DASH.
* Evan said that this project was just a hobby he started while working on a full time job and coded Xcoin in a weekend.
* Evan claims there were hundreds of miners if not thousands when Xcoin launched. Recent investigation showed that there were 124 IP addreses that were mining at the start. 115 of those addresses where Cloudhosting and Dedicated Servers, 9 of them seem to be private/users.106 of them were at Amazon AWS and Microsoft Azure cloud instances.
 
---

Conclusions:
*Evan isn't acting alone, he had/has a team behind him right from the start. It wasn't a hobby. he had a plan to make a profit.
*Evan had plans for his coin right from the start, but didn't release them until after the instamine
*1.5 million coins were mined in the first 8 hours. Most of these coin ended up in his (and his friends) hands. It's very likely the 500k in the first hour were only mined by him with cloudhosting services.
*He lowered the emission later on, to make his relative share of coins bigger.

=> DASH was clearly a planned premine/instamine.

and this one:

I believe that the reason that Dash isn't considered premined is because numerous people were able to mine from launch.  

I expect that the **premine tag was removed because there is no evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, that mining was restricted in any way.

If you look at the facts, it was at least a planned instamine:

Evan was looking for c++ devs for a "for profit startup" at the end of 2013 for the launch of an altcoin.
How can you make a profit by launching an altcoin (and be sure to be able to pay your devs)?
Answer: by premining and/or instamining.
How he did it is pretty easy:
*telling people the release would definitely not be in the next couple of hours and after that do launch it a few hours later
*buggy windows binaries
*a "code error" creating 500k coins in the first hour, >1.5 million in the first 8 hours.

How can this be all an accident and NOT be intentional?

iCEBREAKER... shouldn't you be over on the Dash thread trolling like you do EVERY DAY for the past year screaming "INSTAMINE!!!"?

All coinmarketcap has to do is browse through your post history to know you are a paid Dash troll. I have personally proven with my posts analyzing the blockchain, difficulty, hashrates, etc, that the entire Dash founder team couldn't have possibly mined anywhere near 100% of the 1.5m coins you claim, even under the most optimistic assumptions for your argument. In fact, I showed you how they couldn't have gotten even 500K, assuming no downtime (which is impossible given the updates that were issued), no rejects (also impossible at a time that blocks were generating so quickly that EVERYONE was getting lots of rejects), and a bunch of other rosy assumptions that couldn't be true. In fact, the numbers I calculated and posted (and I know you read) show the max they could have received is a hair higher than the number the devs have claimed for a long time to own. And most of those coins they claim to have bought on the open market in the days after the coin launched, which would almost have to be the case (based on my calculations that I posted) to get to the numbers they claim to have (because my calculations required a bunch of assumptions that clearly aren't true).

Then there's the argument above that he is doing this for a profit. No kidding?!?! I thought he quit his job to work on Dash full time out of the goodness of his heart and concern for the rest of us!!!

Oh, then there's the "proof" that Dash is a scam because Evan had 5,000 x-coin to "throw around" the first day? That is only 10 blocks reward. Anyone mining that first day would have received that many.

The Coinmarketcap guys addressed this issue six months ago. You've been screaming instamine every day for a year. Give it up... enough evidence has emerged over the past year to practically prove the dev is being honest about his holdings and where he acquired them.

Your tactics are despicable. I applaud coinmarketcap for not getting involved in petty disputes perpetrated by holders of competing coins.

Tip: next time to want to lobby for a change like this, you really should consider creating another login. At least pretend not to be a Dash troll.

[iCEBREAKER]

[ranting and rambling; paranoid conspiracy theories]

Let's keep this simple.

Dash has removed the "No Premine" claim from their [ANN] thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.0).

CMC should be updated accordingly, otherwise it is making a judgement/claim that the coin's OP does not.

Q. E. D.

[toknormal]

Perhaps Gliss should add other filters that are also meaningful to investors rather than picking one arbitrary aspect of the asset according to whoever trolls the hardest:

 - "Filter Anonymous Dev"
 - "Filter Recently Launched"
 - "Filter Opaque Blockchains"
 - "Filter Bitcoin Compatible"
 - "Filter Inactive Dev"........

The subject of the lobbying in the posts above is not improved reporting, it's a personal vendetta against a specific asset. There are markets to resolve such controversies, however if it turns out that they can successfully recruit supposedly independent references such as coinmarketcap.com to their cause then presumably one can expect a whirlwind of lobbying round here for all the other priorities that matter to people far more than emission profiles.

In terms of marketcap, there are two types of cryptocurrency asset that can reasonably be separated: Backed and unbacked. Thats it.

[MasterMined710]

i don't have a problem adding a instamine asterisk to DASH as long as they also add a 1.5 million cripplemine asterisk and a highly inflationary emissions curve asterisk to monero.
http://da-data.blogspot.com/2014/08/minting-money-with-monero-and-cpu.html

has almost half the supply of monero already been mined in the first year and a half? wow, holy hyper inflationary instamine batman! 

[kludzins]

Dash launch date



Coins today



Monero launch date



Coins today



 

[DrkLvr_]

while you are at it Dash could also use the following tags:

emission change tag (500 to 5 coins per block)

supply change tag (84 million to 16-17 million)

"this coin has been rebranded twice or more" tag

[entertheabyss]

hey, ExchangeD.I2P updated their api format and included a call to get info on all coins at once.

can you update your api parsing? ty

[illodin]

I doubt Gliss wants to dig into controversies and make judgement calls.

Let's keep this simple.

Dash has removed the "No Premine" claim from their [ANN] thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.0).

CMC should be updated accordingly, otherwise it is making a judgement/claim that the coin's OP does not.

Q. E. D.

My investigations have revealed that Monero doesn't have "No Premine" in their ANN (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.0) so it must be premined.

Plz update accordingly.

[smooth]

Dash has removed the "No Premine" claim from their [ANN] thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.0).

It is no longer in the title, but it is in the body of their OP. All of the original (now changed) parameters have been removed, along with the original coin name.

- Dash has no premine and was fairly and transparently launched
- Total coins will be between 14 and 18 million

[Zebedee23]

Please add ANTI
On Yobit & C-cex , https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1212951.0
https://www.blockexperts.com/anti

[extrobot]

I check coinmarketcap every day for news on coins, and see if any value change
ethereum have been climbing list very far lately!!

[bitrev]

I check coinmarketcap every day for news on coins, and see if any value change
ethereum have been climbing list very far lately!!

I check it daily too, I prefer the view all screen, where you can see the weekly progress/decrease:
http://coinmarketcap.com/all/views/all/

[DrkLvr_]

Your tactics are despicable. I applaud coinmarketcap for not getting involved in petty disputes perpetrated by holders of competing coins.

Tip: next time to want to lobby for a change like this, you really should consider creating another login. At least pretend not to be a Dash troll.

You are recommending he should be dishonest by creating a new login, but at the same time calling his tactics despicable. The hypocrisy from Dash is astonishing.

This user Taylor05 is quite obvious a second account.. i would not be surprised if it was Mr. Evan Duffield himself

It is also quite clear coinmarketcap.com is complicit in this fraud of Dash.. is the user Gliss paid by the Dash developers to keep quiet? There appears to be a deliberate inaction here.

[iCEBREAKER]

It is also quite clear coinmarketcap.com is complicit in this fraud of Dash.. is the user Gliss paid by the Dash developers to keep quiet?

There appears to be a deliberate inaction here.

If Dash no longer claims "No Premine" then why should CMC/Gliss?

Is there a connection between the Dash scam and the Bytecoin scam behind Cointelegraph/CMC/Gliss?

CT has a history of sacrificing journalistic integrity to hype Dash:

http://cointelegraph.com/news/114829/litecoin-dumped-by-chinese-dash-next

Hmm, they are pushing Neucoin, that doesn't look good...

Ah-ha, the smoking gun!  http://cointelegraph.com/news/115510/worlds-first-dapi-decentralized-application-programming-interface

How nice of CT to hype Dash's Evolusham vaporware, just as the price needed a shot in the arm.

I hope Gliss will simply update CMC to accurately reflect the info provided by Dash's [ANN], so we don't have to make a Scam Accusation.

[olcaytu2005]

I hope Gliss will simply update CMC to accurately reflect the info provided by Dash's [ANN], so we don't have to make a Scam Accusation.

Please make a Scam Accusation. We need your multisig brain. We dont have a brain to think. Ahaahha you legendary troll dog   You are barking everywhere but noone give a shit you ahahahahah

[smooth]

If Dash no longer claims "No Premine" then why should CMC/Gliss?

Did you miss my post above? Dash indeed does now claim precisely "no premine" in its rewritten OP which removed all of the original coin parameters and history:

- Dash has no premine and was fairly and transparently launched
- Total coins will be between 14 and 18 million

[iCEBREAKER]

Dash has removed the "No Premine" claim from their [ANN] thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.0).

It is no longer in the title, but it is in the body of their OP. All of the original (now changed) parameters have been removed, along with the original coin name.

- Dash has no premine and was fairly and transparently launched
- Total coins will be between 14 and 18 million

"Let's take the controversial and indefensible No Premine claim out of the title, then hide it in the fine print" said Evan Madoffield (probably).

Wow, that is going on Slim Shady.

What parameters have changed, and has CMC unblinkingly accepted those changes without comment, kept the old parameters, or updated Dash with a note indicating it changes its social contract on a whim and gets relaunched more often than the iPhone?

I wasn't originally in favor of making a new scam-category just for Dash, but such innovation in scamminess is in a league of its own.

It really makes Gliss, CMC, and CT look scummy when they list Dash beside legitimate coins and run endless puff-piece interviews hyping the project.

[smooth]

Since I quoted in this thread above, it has been edited again:

- Dash is a Next Generation cryptographic currency
- Dash supports instant transactions and privacy using decentralized technology
- Dash has no premine and was fairly and transparently launched
- Total coins will most likely be near 18.9 million (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RpLd87PTs65sz8USrrXwGRoVGVbzaC-nunErEtGSJoE/edit#gid=0)
- Coins will cease to be generated near the year 2300
- Dash uses the X11 algorithm for mining

Previous archived version:

Release date: 11PM EST, 18th January 2014 / No premine
X11 hashing algorithm: 11 rounds of scientific hashing functions (blake, bmw, groestl, jh, keccak, skein, luffa, cubehash, shavite, simd, echo)
Block reward is controlled by: 2222222/(((Difficulty+2600)/9)^2)
CPU/GPU mining
Block generation: 2.5 minutes
Difficulty Retargets using Dark Gravity Wave
7% decrease in the number of coins generated per year
Est. ~22M Max Coins
Decentralized Masternode Network
Superior Transaction Anonymity using Darksend

Earliest archived version

Super secure hashing algorithm: 11 rounds of scientific hashing functions (blake, bmw, groestl, jh, keccak, skein, luffa, cubehash, shavite, simd, echo)
Block reward is controlled by moore's law: (11111 / (((Difficulty+51)/6) ^ 2))
CPU only mining
Block generation: 2.5 minutes
Difficulty Retargets every 576 blocks
84 Million Coins Max
Block reward halving every 2 years

What happened before or in between or other versions that weren't archived I have no idea.