[Closed] AVALON CHIPs @0.082BTC + K16 Miner Assembly 60EUR

[kearneykid]

i vote for a refund also

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[bizwoo]

Sorry that I did not update you guys before.

I am following all this up very closelly. Our batches are not delayed in the same proportion as other but I will do as we all decide.

I have posted in zefir's thread yesterday showing my support to whatever the comminity decides to do:

Although the batches ordered on the GBs I organized are still, more or less, within the 'promised' shipment time (the first with just over one week of delay) I just wanted to say the I will fully support any decision taken for other group buy's organizers and the buyers.

I think the more feasible option would be B and C and then 'E'. If C if the way to go then I suggest compensation is only accepted in the form of BTC back which percentage would have to be well estimated to fully allow ROI. Any other type of compensation will imply either, expending more money i.e. assembly or keep dealing with AVALON which I do not want to do never again i.e. next Gen chips.

I will probably add another option in the Bizwoo GB website to see how many people would like a refund. I will let all you know.

Cheers.

[darkfriend77]

1. B ... full refund
2. C ... upgrade to next gen
3. D ... legal actions!

I think this is the way to go ... at least for me ...

[psyc]

1. B ... full refund
2. C ... upgrade to next gen
3. D ... legal actions!

I think this is the way to go ... at least for me ...

for me the option b or c with d likely to have additional costs.

avalon was a disappointment   

[jerboa]

B or C for me as well.

[lemonte]

B or C for me.

[hatto47]

B or C for me as well.

[Lethos]

I will probably going down the route of a refund, since Yifu (Avalon) has essentially suggested he is going to work on doing that for those who want it.
Yifu has broken his agreement (via the deadline) for many if not all of the groupbuys now, so he doesn't have much right grumble at us.
I just feel bad for all those who will end up taking a big loss like the assemblers (if a mass refund happens), who bought things in advance and now will have less use for them.

If I get a full refund (or near enough), I do not mind setting aside a small percentage of my refund for Nekonos (My appointed assembler).
I'd prefer to end up with a product, but at this point, as already pointed out in various threads in is going to have to be the next gen chips to be worthwhile.

I'm not greedy, but if the TOS says you promise something, you have to stick to it. But I don't want an innocent third party screw by it either.
If you feel the same, I'm sure Nekonos won't mind a few donations goes his way, I'm sure the same would to other assemblers that you had chosen.

[FrenchTart]

I will probably going down the route of a refund, since Yifu (Avalon) has essentially suggested he is going to work on doing that for those who want it.
Yifu has broken his agreement (via the deadline) for many if not all of the groupbuys now, so he doesn't have much right grumble at us.
I just feel bad for all those who will end up taking a big loss like the assemblers (if a mass refund happens), who bought things in advance and now will have less use for them.

If I get a full refund (or near enough), I do not mind setting aside a small percentage of my refund for Nekonos (My appointed assembler).
I'd prefer to end up with a product, but at this point, as already pointed out in various threads in is going to have to be the next gen chips to be worthwhile.

I'm not greedy, but if the TOS says you promise something, you have to stick to it. But I don't want an innocent third party screw by it either.
If you feel the same, I'm sure Nekonos won't mind a few donations goes his way, I'm sure the same would to other assemblers that you had chosen.

I tend to agree with this.  Probably should be optional but I'd throw a small percentage Nekronos' way.

[Pompobit]

If we are going for a refund, I'll suggest to fill the yufu's form as soon as possible, Avalon has not been the fastest company to delivery refunds (see batch #3).

[cr003l7y]

I'm voting for refund. Upgrade / nextgen etc. are just fancy words from Avalon...

[ct1aic]

1. B ... full refund
2. C ... upgrade to next gen
3. D ... legal actions!

I think this is the way to go ... at least for me ...

In respect for nekonos and bizwoo, I will keep my 2 orders and I will order/pay nekonos for 2 Klondike16 (1 from each GB) upon reception of the 32 chips by bizwoo.

[Fishbones]

If we are going for a refund, I'll suggest to fill the yufu's form as soon as possible, Avalon has not been the fastest company to delivery refunds (see batch #3).

Agree. FULL REFUND ASAP. Waiting to be upgraded with next gen chips is putting trust back into this company, and we all know where that got us 

[psyc]

1. B ... full refund
2. C ... upgrade to next gen
3. D ... legal actions!

I think this is the way to go ... at least for me ...

In respect for nekonos and bizwoo, I will keep my 2 orders and I will order/pay nekonos for 2 Klondike16 (1 from each GB) upon reception of the 32 chips by bizwoo.

I have great respect for nekonos and bizowoo I could also feel good to receive 2 Klondike16 if the times are reasonable, but if things go for long .......

[Fishbones]

I have great respect for nekonos and bizowoo I could also feel good to receive 2 Klondike16 if the times are reasonable, but if things go for long .......

For these chips to be of any use they would have to be shipping NOW, as was the original timeline. Batch 1 is as of today 11 days overdue. There are about 20 orders ahead of batch 1 that we know of. There is NO chance of having any of these chips delivered and assembled in time to generate even a small percentage of the investment costs, never-mind the running costs.
If there is any chance of a refund as stated by Yifu himself, we should take the opportunity and then maybe invest in Gen 2 Avalon ASICS  WHEN they have the chips ready for dispatch. NO MORE pre-orders.

[psyc]

I have great respect for nekonos and bizowoo I could also feel good to receive 2 Klondike16 if the times are reasonable, but if things go for long .......

For these chips to be of any use they would have to be shipping NOW, as was the original timeline. Batch 1 is as of today 11 days overdue. There are about 20 orders ahead of batch 1 that we know of. There is NO chance of having any of these chips delivered and assembled in time to generate even a small percentage of the investment costs, never-mind the running costs.
If there is any chance of a refund as stated by Yifu himself, we should take the opportunity and then maybe invest in Gen 2 Avalon ASICS  WHEN they have the chips ready for dispatch. NO MORE pre-orders.

avalon if it were a serious company should give the new chips with previously seen the ugly figure that has made. I agree NO MORE pre-orders.!!

[finlof]

avalon funds are now here http://blockchain.info/address/1JrwWrt3TYUzMYFEBLX5hTo1zFsEY6tWZN and are moving out fast.  guess they are processing refunds?

[Pompobit]

avalon funds are now here http://blockchain.info/address/1JrwWrt3TYUzMYFEBLX5hTo1zFsEY6tWZN and are moving out fast.  guess they are processing refunds?

they are processing batch #3 miners refunds

[ampu]

FYI

Dear BitSyncom,

I organized one of the first group-buys for Avalon ASICs with a total of 80k chips during the second half of April. I already received the first two orders, and while they arrived later than agreed, I understand the difficulties you faced with delivery and am happy to have enabled some DIY projects to produce boards with an expected break-even potential.

With the further delays and the recent development in the mining market, we already passed the point where your chips will ever see a ROI. While the accelerated development of next-gen ASICs and the resulting increase in difficulty is every miners' risk issue, the delay is not. Decision to order the chips was based on your ToS giving a 9-10 weeks delivery time, and with the remaining orders being late for at least 8 weeks you for sure are aware that the chips lost their chance to make back their investment.

As you can imagine, all users desperately waiting for their chips are becoming more and more impatient. I personally have ~200 very sad and upset people in my group-buy and I feel very desperate and helpless not being able to do anything about it.

Yifu, it is only some months ago where you have been one of the most respected and honored person in Bitcoinland. I strongly believe that all this mess is a result of issues out of your control. Nevertheless with power comes responsibility, and now it is on you to take responsibility for the masses of folks out there who put serious amount of coins into your chips. If you really care about Bitcoin and its community, you can't just stand there and watch how disappointed users leave the scene.

As group-buy organizer and large-scale buyer I would like to suggest you several options to compensate chip-buyers for the late delivery:
a) refund: no chips, full refund
b) compensation in BTC: deliver chips, compensate XX% of the initial price
c) compensation in chips: deliver chips, add YY% more chips as compensation
d) compensation by upgrades: no chips, convert orders to next-gen chip orders

Would you be willing and capable to consider those suggestions? If so, I'd be glad to negotiate between my group-buyers and you to reach some agreement acceptable for both sides. Also, I would include other group-buy organizers to come to a generic agreement. For the sake of Bitcoin, please come back to me and let's bring this, that poisoned the community already enough, to an end.


Best Regards
zefir

I'm glad the group buyer leaders are more understanding.

a) I am very open to this, this is what I suggest.
b) I am not a fan of this, on a principle level I rather do a full refund. plus, I rather sell the chips once we have them in hand at a discount, instead of letting people wait.( which is about the same as doing a partial refund in my opinion.)
c) this will not be good, as you know the chips isn't going to get here any faster, and ordering more would run into more delays ( this is the worst option, do not offer.)
d) while in theory this option sounds the best for us right? we keep the money, tout our gen2/3/4 chips and etc etc, but reality is we want to stay away from all pre-orders in the future. as you can imagine, all the problems, rumors and just about everything is caused by the fact we took pre-orders, and we will no longer be doing this.

you are welcome to post this in your thread.

I'd go for a full refund at this point.

Anyway, I have full trust in Bizwoo to manage this with other GBs leaders..

[eduffield]

please vote... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270897.0

I voted and it looks like the vast majority of us want a refund.