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Author Topic: The YACoin Superfun Premine Thread  (Read 8734 times)
bitdwarf
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May 09, 2013, 11:50:18 PM
 #101

No, because suddenly you have blocks that are worth 100 coins because the difficulty is so low and no one can mine quickly.

If electric and hardware cost is higher than PoW/day reward at that point, then PoW dies regardless of the difficulty and block reward and all mining happens by PoS. Ultimately, reward could be infinite and difficulty zero, if my hashing rate is zero I won't get any coins.

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Ɏ: "the altcoin for the everyman, where the sweat on one's brow can be used to cool one's overheating CPU" -- theprofileth
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tacotime
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May 09, 2013, 11:53:53 PM
 #102

No, because suddenly you have blocks that are worth 100 coins because the difficulty is so low and no one can mine quickly.

If electric and hardware cost is higher than PoW/day reward at that point, then PoW dies regardless of the difficulty and block reward and all mining happens by PoS. Ultimately, reward could be infinite and difficulty zero, if my hashing rate is zero I won't get any coins.

It won't be zero, just really really slow -- so diff 1 or 2.  At difficultly 1, every other hash you make gets a block statistically.  Increasing the amount of resources required to mine (and thus decreasing the difficulty required to solve a block out of necessity) is completely counterintuitive to the energy efficiency model proposed by PPC and later by NVC in their reward adjustment algorithm.

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
bitdwarf
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May 10, 2013, 12:00:33 AM
 #103

So instead of safely and securely mining the 5% yearly PoS, they would spend a lot of money in energy and hardware and hope the god of the random numbers doesn't yield a wooping total of zero profit. Risk has to be priced in too.

𝖄𝖆𝖈: YF3feU4PNLHrjwa1zV63BcCdWVk5z6DAh5 · 𝕭𝖙𝖈: 12F78M4oaNmyGE5C25ZixarG2Nk6UBEqme
Ɏ: "the altcoin for the everyman, where the sweat on one's brow can be used to cool one's overheating CPU" -- theprofileth
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May 10, 2013, 12:01:14 AM
 #104

Yet the Windows build gave me 60 KH/s while my Ubuntu build gave me 400 KH/s with my 2700K -- totally different story.

Anyway, who wants to buy some YAC?

400 KH/s?
I'm getting merely 200-400kH/s on my Intel hexacore. That said I cannot use the AVX optimisation as it runs inside Virtualbox. However, I don't see how this is a totally different story -- we have the same with ASICs for Bitcoin, GPUs that arrived for Litecoin etc.

YAC might not be more "pure" than other coins. But at least it is a new concept and not a simple clone such as FTC and CNC. I have my doubts whether it is the right concept. But only time will tell.

I also find it hypocritical to ask for a "fair" coin. What is fair? Fair, so that everybody can profit? Fair, so that "I" can profit enough and in particular more than the other guy that I'm envious of? Fair, so I can dump it onto buyers and cash out?

Is anybody even remotely thinking about the original motivation of a coin? To make digital payments easy and secure. Mining surely was more of a necessary evil (consuming Megawatts and 100k$/day) than a wanted aspect of the network. I could think of a strategy that should limit the required mining power.

Unfair is when I make lots more than everyone else for no greater effort -- which is what I've done repeatedly.  Like I said, I got a bunch of YACs.  But I figure people not into the crypto p'n'd' scene will fail to see the value of something that has ponzi-scheme like distributions in the first week that it's out.

Your definition of fairness is socialism: making as much as everybody else, adjusted for effort. Oh, and of course making as much as everyone else at the cost of someone buying all these coins. Hmm, not quite socialism then. Wink

I'll give it another twist: it is unfair by your definition that you have mined LTC a long time ago where difficulty was low, stashed it away and then sold it for a much higher value than anybody else who sold it after mining it? FRC with demurrage would be more fair by that definition. However, I believe what most people mean by "fair" is that it should make everybody equally rich, quickly and easily.

And here is a last twist: you speak of people seeing or not seeing the value of a crypto. Again, what is the value of a crypto? I'll offer some ideas:
- entertainment (hobby and way to spend time)
- educational (learning about computers, crypto and programs)
- whatever the other guy is willing to pay $$$ (covers speculation and investment)
- a tax efficient way for gambling (BTC trading is the cheapest "lottery" I know of)
- payment processing (yawn, boring)


BTC 1NoV8NFSB7eiuK2aABFtBTdUdXhbEdG7Ss
LTC LaFyWSfzKY7CKwwmbxhyf8S2iJvfT7JFtL YAC YKKwR5B64Z9ww971J42vEGVPaema623Tz6
efx
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May 10, 2013, 12:11:44 AM
 #105

Unfair is when you intentionally compile a windows client with variables or 'features' that only hinder performance. A similar instance can be seen with intel compilers and their odd performance characteristics when you spoof a "GenuineIntel" vendor ID string....

I honestly believe the dev went out of his way to make the windows version less than optimal and github should be able to provide the necessary evidence.
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May 10, 2013, 12:26:35 AM
 #106

I see a lot of crying unfair in this thread.

I think a l lot of it has to do with the fact that many people have not solo mined before especially within wallet style.
I got in maybe an hour after launch and got plenty of coins.
I had no special inside info.
I just used what was available to me in the initial thread.
 tl:dr solo mining a fast moving new chain is hard!

Bitvolcano YAC, BBQ and WDC P2Pools at http://bitvolcano.com
WindMaster
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May 10, 2013, 01:41:02 AM
 #107

I don't think the Dev has a GPU miner nor do I think he has a server farm, if he did no one else would've won any blocks when the binaries were posted. However if 6000 cores only constitutes 15% of the hash then something is fishy, the alts forum doesn't have 20,000 people reading it. Regardless the coin was doomed from the start, six second block times are fine if you're the Visa network paying for your storage, but at 35mb a day you can't very well tell gramma to send you money but "oh, it'll take you a week to download the block chain".

I already turned mine off. 500 watts an hour isn't worth it for 16 cents worth of coin.

Minor nitpick, but since it appears to be based on my report of the hash rate contribution from my 1560 server mining farm experience, it was quite a few more cores than 6000.  800 of the servers were IBM HS21 blade servers containing two Xeon E5450 processors which each have 4 cores, so each server had 8 cores, so 6400 cores for the main server farm.  A Xeon E5450 is pretty similar to a Core2 Quad but with significantly more cache memory tacked on.  The Amazon c1.xlarge instances have 8 cores worth of Xeon E5-2650's, though are shared servers.  Generally the 760 c1.xlarge instances performed at about 2/3 the hash rate of the dual E5450 servers, so we can probably call those equivalent to 2/3 of a dual E5450 server.

So, more accurate estimate would be that around 10450 cores (equivalent to Xeon E5450 cores) constituted about 15% of the hash rate at the time that I stopped mining when difficulty reached 0.1.
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May 10, 2013, 01:50:29 AM
 #108

I'm still trying to find a point why would someone who apparently mined loads of coins on paid cluster service spend so much energy talking about it in the thread that pretty much has a tone of devaluing coin itself.

Shouldn't such guy have interest in maintaining a low profile, both personal and coinwise to bank most from his effort. Unless he already dumped his mined coins but I haven't see close to that volume being traded here.

Lot of stuff being talked here is legit and I don't have illusion that someone makes a coin without having intention to bank from it on one or other way, that's pretty Mr. Obvious  Cheesy but I can't see logic in windmaster's contribution to it and asked him about it privately but from some reason he decided to ignore me.


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tacotime
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May 10, 2013, 02:19:59 AM
 #109

So instead of safely and securely mining the 5% yearly PoS, they would spend a lot of money in energy and hardware and hope the god of the random numbers doesn't yield a wooping total of zero profit. Risk has to be priced in too.

...not sure if serious.

I could mine a block at N=2^20 and diff 1 right now, it'd just take a little while to calculate.

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
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May 10, 2013, 02:20:43 AM
 #110

Can we close this thread?

MODS!!!

My yacoin giveaway: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=199716.0 - Need more people to donate in order to keep it going.
My yacoin bounty thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=200252.0 - If you want to add bounties, just post here.
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tacotime
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May 10, 2013, 02:25:36 AM
 #111

Can we close this thread?

MODS!!!


Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
WindMaster
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May 10, 2013, 02:44:45 AM
 #112

I'm still trying to find a point why would someone who apparently mined loads of coins on paid cluster service spend so much energy talking about it in the thread that pretty much has a tone of devaluing coin itself.

Shouldn't such guy have interest in maintaining a low profile, both personal and coinwise to bank most from his effort. Unless he already dumped his mined coins but I haven't see close to that volume being traded here.

If I fired up a server farm right at the moment the coin was released and mined 6 figures worth of coins, I probably would indeed be keeping a low profile.  But I started 8 hours after launch, and made about as much YAC as, apparently, other posters in this thread who just had a single PC running right from the start.  It's not like someone is going to point the "ohh, that evil person was premining the heck out of Yacoin" finger at me for starting 8 hours in.

To be clear, I mined this coin for fun and entertainment and to make 1600 Xeon processors feel less bored for a while.  8 hours in before starting to mine, it's pretty obvious this wasn't going to be a get-rich-quick opportunity.  I had a data point that pointed toward the network hash rate being a particular number at a certain point in time (when difficulty reached 0.1), and it clearly didn't jive with only CPU power being at play, so I shared that data point.  Looking at the exchange rates in the Google Docs spreadsheet doesn't suggest that the YAC I hold is worth all that much at the immediate moment.  Now, if it hits an exchange and things get more interesting, who knows, maybe I'll sell some.  If I were at risk of, say, paying off my house with the mined YAC, while everyone else just got orphaned blocks, then sure, I might not be particularly vocal about it in the forums.  That doesn't appear to be what's going to happen here though.

I still have all the coins I mined, to answer the private message you sent.

Lot of stuff being talked here is legit and I don't have illusion that someone makes a coin without having intention to bank from it on one or other way, that's pretty Mr. Obvious  Cheesy but I can't see logic in windmaster's contribution to it and asked him about it privately but from some reason he decided to ignore me.

Or, I stepped away for a bit to tend to business (people with >800 blade servers might be a bit busy from time to time, no?) and only then checked my Email when I returned, finding the notification of your private message.  Doesn't take long to spark a conspiracy theory, eh?  What possible motives could I have for taking 3 hours before noticing you sent a private message, I must totally not be legit!

To be clear, your private message didn't actually ask a question, unless you were just asking if I sold off my mined YAC already.  What was the response you were seeking?
ymer
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May 10, 2013, 03:30:30 AM
 #113


best use of jackiechan ever

seleme
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May 10, 2013, 03:35:45 AM
 #114

Quote
To be clear, your private message didn't actually ask a question, unless you were just asking if I sold off my mined YAC already.  What was the response you were seeking?

Not at all, couldn't care less if you sold them or not, it was just kinda strange. It still is a bit but yeah, you put some effort in the explanation, it's fine to me.

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WindMaster
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May 10, 2013, 03:41:58 AM
 #115

Not at all, couldn't care less if you sold them or not, it was just kinda strange. It still is a bit but yeah, you put some effort in the explanation, it's fine to me.

Roger that, perhaps I misread the tone of your private message and the post above.  My apologies.

Amusing images to suggest that I was indeed mining YAC on an IBM BladeCenter server farm:








ymer
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May 10, 2013, 03:45:55 AM
 #116

Not at all, couldn't care less if you sold them or not, it was just kinda strange. It still is a bit but yeah, you put some effort in the explanation, it's fine to me.

Roger that, perhaps I misread the tone of your private message and the post above.  My apologies.

Amusing images to suggest that I was indeed mining YAC on an IBM BladeCenter server farm:











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May 10, 2013, 05:21:04 AM
 #117

Anyone else notice this?

Code:
namespace Checkpoints
{
    typedef std::map<int, uint256> MapCheckpoints;

    //
    // What makes a good checkpoint block?
    // + Is surrounded by blocks with reasonable timestamps
    //   (no blocks before with a timestamp after, none after with
    //    timestamp before)
    // + Contains no strange transactions
    //
    static MapCheckpoints mapCheckpoints =
        boost::assign::map_list_of
        (     0, hashGenesisBlockOfficial )
        ( 15000, uint256("0x00000082cab82d04354692fac3b83d19cbe3c3ab4b73610d0e73397545eb012e"))
//        ( 6000, uint256("0x000000000945e3c9d8e15df834e802521eb79f9ceb4191a27bdfadad4b777f4a"))
//        ( 8700, uint256("0x00000000014270724837789c9a69859290f6bdee38556bc4561c21f17935a178"))
//        ( 13560, uint256("0xa1591a0fcbf11f282d671581edb9f0aadcd06fee69761081e0a3245914c13729"))
//        ( 14189, uint256("0x00000000020f76474d2522b19c7bfafc43ba6ecbabae54293bcd9546159c8c1d"))
        ;

    static MapCheckpoints mapCheckpointsTestnet =
        boost::assign::map_list_of
        ( 0, hashGenesisBlockOfficial )
        ;

Pocopoco added a checkpoint via a GitHub pull despite not saying anything at all over here, and at block 15,000 no less.  Why?

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
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May 10, 2013, 05:43:59 AM
 #118

Anyone else notice this?

Code:
namespace Checkpoints
{
    typedef std::map<int, uint256> MapCheckpoints;

    //
    // What makes a good checkpoint block?
    // + Is surrounded by blocks with reasonable timestamps
    //   (no blocks before with a timestamp after, none after with
    //    timestamp before)
    // + Contains no strange transactions
    //
    static MapCheckpoints mapCheckpoints =
        boost::assign::map_list_of
        (     0, hashGenesisBlockOfficial )
        ( 15000, uint256("0x00000082cab82d04354692fac3b83d19cbe3c3ab4b73610d0e73397545eb012e"))
//        ( 6000, uint256("0x000000000945e3c9d8e15df834e802521eb79f9ceb4191a27bdfadad4b777f4a"))
//        ( 8700, uint256("0x00000000014270724837789c9a69859290f6bdee38556bc4561c21f17935a178"))
//        ( 13560, uint256("0xa1591a0fcbf11f282d671581edb9f0aadcd06fee69761081e0a3245914c13729"))
//        ( 14189, uint256("0x00000000020f76474d2522b19c7bfafc43ba6ecbabae54293bcd9546159c8c1d"))
        ;

    static MapCheckpoints mapCheckpointsTestnet =
        boost::assign::map_list_of
        ( 0, hashGenesisBlockOfficial )
        ;

Pocopoco added a checkpoint via a GitHub pull despite not saying anything at all over here, and at block 15,000 no less.  Why?

YACoin was not launched honestly.  I downloaded it on windows and found out as well very quickly.  Taco is speaking truth.

Should be "YAscamCoin."

In some ways this was worse - because of the pretentious air of fairness and the deception employed.

Everyone knew FTC and CNC were what they were and could hop on or not.

Quote from: FrictionlessCoin
"I think you are to hung up on this notion about 'pre-mining' being a No-No."
- from journeys into the dark depths of the alt coin forum....
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May 10, 2013, 06:00:11 AM
 #119

Pocopoco added a checkpoint via a GitHub pull despite not saying anything at all over here, and at block 15,000 no less.  Why?

To mitigate 51% attack, no?
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May 10, 2013, 06:02:29 AM
 #120

This thread has to be closed.

MODS??!?!?

My yacoin giveaway: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=199716.0 - Need more people to donate in order to keep it going.
My yacoin bounty thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=200252.0 - If you want to add bounties, just post here.
YAC address: YKmZSWKiqc9MPzmZ89SAwyXM4wSQqoQE3J
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