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Author Topic: The YACoin Superfun Premine Thread  (Read 8730 times)
TheSwede75
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May 09, 2013, 10:25:20 PM
 #61

How to spot a SCAM COIN:

Launched at non-peak forum hours with no, little or faulty launch time.
Convoluted design for the purpose of discouraging public mining in early blocks.
Quickly dropping block reward to reward 'prepared' miners (aka. inner circle)
Very low starting difficulty that quickly increase (also to reward inner circle and pre/instaminers)
Ultra fast time to market. aka. Appears on trading solutions within a few days. To enable early miners fast and profitable exit.
LOTS of forum PR (spamming altcoin forums)

Feel free to add to this, comment, criticize etc. I would love to build a common definition that people can learn from.
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TheSwede75
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May 09, 2013, 10:26:18 PM
 #62

Possible alternative, everyone that didn't immediately start figuring out how to port the scrypt chacha code and (relatively slowly changing) variable N to the cgminer GPU kernel were actually screwed from the onset regardless whether they were running Windows or Linux?

I joined at 9 minutes with 40 blocks mined, and my cheap single i5 2500k Linux rig held for quite a while with ~10% of all coins (I kept checking it, cos it was the first coin I joined since the start and wanted to see how the minting rate was). It ended making 20k YACs throughout the day. So basically anyone who pointed a common Linux desktop to the network would have got a substantial share of the early coins.

Definitely there weren't big guys around with huge rigs from the start, maybe because nobody was expecting a CPU coin. It took a little while for people to react and set up their farms.

Wrong. The coin was pre-annouced. It was only the launch time that was instant. 100% that the developers and their 'friends' were ready with a few amazon instances.
TheSwede75
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May 09, 2013, 10:29:03 PM
 #63

Releasing clients for windows with no UPNP support is the new premine

They will always find a way to have an advantage at release.

That's why they do not publish binaries until the actual release without notice. Anyway I predict that this thread will change nothing and this pre-mine scam will be forgotten in 10 seconds.



It will not be forgotten, but of course it will be ignored by LOTS of people that are waiting just waiting to launch the next 'Big Thing'. I project 4 new altcoins over the weekend. Guessing at least one 'ultra rare' (BTB was a super successful scam) and 2-3 new SHA256 coins, probably with fucked up block reward system.
bitdwarf
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May 09, 2013, 10:30:15 PM
 #64

100% that the developers and their 'friends' were ready with a few amazon instances.

And somehow they failed to mine more than 40 blocks before several forum members joined the network.

𝖄𝖆𝖈: YF3feU4PNLHrjwa1zV63BcCdWVk5z6DAh5 · 𝕭𝖙𝖈: 12F78M4oaNmyGE5C25ZixarG2Nk6UBEqme
Ɏ: "the altcoin for the everyman, where the sweat on one's brow can be used to cool one's overheating CPU" -- theprofileth
Brushan
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May 09, 2013, 10:34:16 PM
 #65

I'm just wondering, which coin wasn't premined?
TheSwede75
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May 09, 2013, 10:36:22 PM
 #66

100% that the developers and their 'friends' were ready with a few amazon instances.

And somehow they failed to mine more than 40 blocks before several forum members joined the network.

So, your theory is that it is super hard to organize a few JR members to also prep and share the profits with them? I am amazed more people don't get how the new altcoin scam works. The entire approach requires you to have a group of forum members to 'validate' your coin anyway (and spam sale/buy ads 20 min after mining starts. Email spam bter.com etc) and why be super greedy when you can make a few 100 BTC and have a group of 'forum friends' make another few 100 BTC.
TheSwede75
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May 09, 2013, 10:37:50 PM
 #67

I'm just wondering, which coin wasn't premined?

In my opinion it is not the premine itself that is 'scammy'. It is many factors that weight in. But if a coin is premined, has rigged block reward and makes it to a marketplace in 48 hours... well. It it walks like a duck...
Hmoobyaj87
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Y8ppZY8MWdcaKwLPRD1ahTxUHof83N6x4i


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May 09, 2013, 10:47:26 PM
 #68

Maybe window was rigged.. I was getting alot of orphans too out of like 60-70 blocks 11 were accepted, rest were orphans

YAC Y2P5zjPSv2sXzV7xt8APVSJFBP2mc5jKjU
TRC 1Lf9cWskhaWCqFi6Y3fUichqQCh8HCYihz
jimhsu
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May 09, 2013, 10:50:54 PM
 #69

How to spot a SCAM COIN:

Launched at non-peak forum hours with no, little or faulty launch time.
Convoluted design for the purpose of discouraging public mining in early blocks.
Quickly dropping block reward to reward 'prepared' miners (aka. inner circle)
Very low starting difficulty that quickly increase (also to reward inner circle and pre/instaminers)
Ultra fast time to market. aka. Appears on trading solutions within a few days. To enable early miners fast and profitable exit.
LOTS of forum PR (spamming altcoin forums)

Feel free to add to this, comment, criticize etc. I would love to build a common definition that people can learn from.

By these definitions, bitcoin and especially litecoin are also scams (except for probably #1, which really depends what timezone you live in).

In time, the market will decide what is, or is not, a scam.


"Trust, but verify."
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shaal
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May 09, 2013, 10:51:02 PM
 #70

Windows 7 64-bit from 1 hour after launch until 8 hours ago. 62 blocks - 59 of them where orphaned.
Linux Ubuntu 64-bit from 1 hour after launch . 270 blocks - 31 of them where orphaned.

bitdwarf
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May 09, 2013, 10:52:43 PM
 #71

In my opinion it is not the premine itself that is 'scammy'. It is many factors that weight in. But if a coin is premined, has rigged block reward and makes it to a marketplace in 48 hours... well. It it walks like a duck...

And here is some required reading

As soon as next retarget CNC will surpass feathercoin in value like a rocket.

Just BUY all the CNC you can get your hands on and you have a few 100% easy in a matter of hours or days.

I'm still bullish. Sold off enough to 'break even' at around 0.0035 and still sitting on 30k+ for the long haul. Either it will stagnate around 0.20-0.30 in a day or so, or it will take off. I don't see it going 'away' anytime soon with China just now becoming seriously interested in crypto currency. I can see if becoming the 'LTC of the far east' and if so, having a position is always nice if you are willing to take some risk.

I think you are setting your hopes too high for this one. The author went off the grid (hasn't posted in 3 days) and interest is waning. I find it hard to support when the author hasn't taken any initiative to promote services or participate in the community. It may well be a scamcoin.

I think the 'disappearance' could very well be a PR stunt though. Satoshi anyone?


𝖄𝖆𝖈: YF3feU4PNLHrjwa1zV63BcCdWVk5z6DAh5 · 𝕭𝖙𝖈: 12F78M4oaNmyGE5C25ZixarG2Nk6UBEqme
Ɏ: "the altcoin for the everyman, where the sweat on one's brow can be used to cool one's overheating CPU" -- theprofileth
Come-from-Beyond
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May 09, 2013, 10:53:04 PM
 #72

tl;dr pretty much everyone running the Windows binaries from the onset was screwed.

The same was with Litecoin. Almost everyone was mining on unoptimized miner until pooler published his optimized version. Scams everywhere.
jimhsu
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May 09, 2013, 10:55:04 PM
 #73

In my opinion it is not the premine itself that is 'scammy'. It is many factors that weight in. But if a coin is premined, has rigged block reward and makes it to a marketplace in 48 hours... well. It it walks like a duck...

And here is some required reading

As soon as next retarget CNC will surpass feathercoin in value like a rocket.

Just BUY all the CNC you can get your hands on and you have a few 100% easy in a matter of hours or days.

I'm still bullish. Sold off enough to 'break even' at around 0.0035 and still sitting on 30k+ for the long haul. Either it will stagnate around 0.20-0.30 in a day or so, or it will take off. I don't see it going 'away' anytime soon with China just now becoming seriously interested in crypto currency. I can see if becoming the 'LTC of the far east' and if so, having a position is always nice if you are willing to take some risk.

I think you are setting your hopes too high for this one. The author went off the grid (hasn't posted in 3 days) and interest is waning. I find it hard to support when the author hasn't taken any initiative to promote services or participate in the community. It may well be a scamcoin.

I think the 'disappearance' could very well be a PR stunt though. Satoshi anyone?



Either all of them (bitcoin, litecoin included) are scams, or none are scams.

/petition to restrict the word "scam" to define actual scamming (i.e. send coins to newbie member, don't get anything back).

"Trust, but verify."
Bitrated user: jimhsu.
tacotime
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May 09, 2013, 10:57:01 PM
 #74

tl;dr pretty much everyone running the Windows binaries from the onset was screwed.

The same was with Litecoin. Almost everyone was mining on unoptimized miner until pooler published his optimized version. Scams everywhere.

Are you kidding me?  I was one of the first Tenebrix and Litecoin miners, and I mined with an AMD cluster.  Artforz just had trouble optimizing for Intel, so for a while AMD and Intel were neck and neck until pooler did some tricks with cache access and assembly to finally get the performance out of intel GPUs that everyone was expecting from them.  End of the day, a few months after Tenebrix was released you could finally mine with 60 KH/s on your Intel CPU as compared to 40 KH/s with Artforz' original code.  Whoop-de-doo, a 50% improvement.

Yet the Windows build gave me 60 KH/s while my Ubuntu build gave me 400 KH/s with my 2700K -- totally different story.

Anyway, who wants to buy some YAC?

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
Digicoiner
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May 09, 2013, 10:57:33 PM
 #75

tl;dr pretty much everyone running the Windows binaries from the onset was screwed.

and the fact there were no clear instructions on how to CPU mine. The instructions were made more clear later on. I didn't realize you just had to run the wallet with a few switches to start mining. Also all those pictures posted a couple of days ago of people eating popcorn was a signal some people were raking in the coins.
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May 09, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
 #76

Are you kidding me?  I was one of the first Tenebrix and Litecoin miners, and I mined with an AMD cluster.  Artforz just had trouble optimizing for Intel, so for a while AMD and Intel were neck and neck until pooler did some tricks with cache access and assembly to finally get the performance out of intel GPUs that everyone was expecting from them.  End of the day, a few months after Tenebrix was released you could finally mine with 60 KH/s on your Intel CPU as compared to 40 KH/s with Artforz' original code.  Whoop-de-doo, a 50% improvement.

Well. I may be wrong and that was unintentional.
tacotime
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May 09, 2013, 11:05:47 PM
 #77

Are you kidding me?  I was one of the first Tenebrix and Litecoin miners, and I mined with an AMD cluster.  Artforz just had trouble optimizing for Intel, so for a while AMD and Intel were neck and neck until pooler did some tricks with cache access and assembly to finally get the performance out of intel GPUs that everyone was expecting from them.  End of the day, a few months after Tenebrix was released you could finally mine with 60 KH/s on your Intel CPU as compared to 40 KH/s with Artforz' original code.  Whoop-de-doo, a 50% improvement.

Well. I may be wrong and that was unintentional.

You might be thinking of the GPU mining code -- no one knows if Artforz was able to get a GPU miner for Litecoin running after he realized that the TMTO issue with scrypt allowed for faster mining by GPU.  It's still a possibility; Artforz mined privately with his GPU miner when he implemented it for the Bitcoin chain, then only gave out the source code later.

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
Come-from-Beyond
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May 09, 2013, 11:09:39 PM
 #78

Are you kidding me?  I was one of the first Tenebrix and Litecoin miners, and I mined with an AMD cluster.  Artforz just had trouble optimizing for Intel, so for a while AMD and Intel were neck and neck until pooler did some tricks with cache access and assembly to finally get the performance out of intel GPUs that everyone was expecting from them.  End of the day, a few months after Tenebrix was released you could finally mine with 60 KH/s on your Intel CPU as compared to 40 KH/s with Artforz' original code.  Whoop-de-doo, a 50% improvement.

Well. I may be wrong and that was unintentional.

You might be thinking of the GPU mining code -- no one knows if Artforz was able to get a GPU miner for Litecoin running after he realized that the TMTO issue with scrypt allowed for faster mining by GPU.  It's still a possibility; Artforz mined privately with his GPU miner when he implemented it for the Bitcoin chain, then only gave out the source code later.

I recall an issue related to the chosen parameters (1024, 1, 1). This set of parameters leads to degeneracy of the algo (in mathematical sense), making it's easier to create GPU mining soft.
WindMaster
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May 09, 2013, 11:15:04 PM
 #79

and the fact there were no clear instructions on how to CPU mine. The instructions were made more clear later on. I didn't realize you just had to run the wallet with a few switches to start mining. Also all those pictures posted a couple of days ago of people eating popcorn was a signal some people were raking in the coins.

Possibly this is more an issue of people forgetting the past, back when CPU mining BTC was common.  I'd tend to say it wasn't a flaw of the YAC launch, just that a lot of people had forgotten how to CPU mine with the client itself, or entered the cryptocurrency scene and went straight to GPU mining without having ever attempted CPU mining.  Otherwise, the "gen" parameter to enable CPU mining in the client seems to be a long-term legacy dating to the original Bitcoin client and wasn't any sort of revolutionary or undocumented feature specific to Yacoin.
tacotime
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May 09, 2013, 11:17:11 PM
 #80

You might be thinking of the GPU mining code -- no one knows if Artforz was able to get a GPU miner for Litecoin running after he realized that the TMTO issue with scrypt allowed for faster mining by GPU.  It's still a possibility; Artforz mined privately with his GPU miner when he implemented it for the Bitcoin chain, then only gave out the source code later.

I recall an issue related to the chosen parameters (1024, 1, 1). This set of parameters leads to degeneracy of the algo (in mathematical sense), making it's easier to create GPU mining soft.

That wasn't the problem (although the author of this coin is trying to use that to sell you on it).

Regardless of the value of N, the GPU will likely be faster until you hit some value in the hundreds of megabytes that requires all of the 8-16 GB of RAM available on a modern computer.  The reason for this is because you can adjust the amount of memory usage in exchange for number of ALU cycles (this is exactly what the "lookup_gap" variable does in reaper/cgminer).  But at a value of N large enough to prohibit faster GPU mining, a single hash is measured in seconds to minutes.  This makes it impossible to use for a blockchain hash and was detailed in the memcoin thread I created a long time ago.  Most of the ideas for YACoin came from the specifications for that coin, which were later revealed (to my chagrin) to make no sense.  This is one of the reasons that the YACoin chain makes no sense itself, because it eventually intends to use values of N in the gigabyte range.

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
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