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Author Topic: Roger Ver holds around 300k bitcoins worth $750 Million and wants the fork  (Read 9039 times)
walerikus
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October 16, 2019, 09:32:44 PM
 #101

Roger Ver at some point will probably be arrested and thrown into prison for tax evasion.  If it is true he has 300,000 Bitcoins then he's on the hook for some $120+ million in back taxes to the IRS and penalties / interest from when he left USA in 2014.  I'm not sure about the IRS penalties but they could very well seize everything he owns due to the obvious massive conspiracy to commit tax fraud.  The token amount he gave them years ago was nowhere close to his owed amount.

Actually this is also the guy who is also a convicted terrorist too, for mailing explosives in the mail.  So it's practically a step backwards to commit something petty (by comparison to terrorism) like tax fraud.
 

Surprised Japan let him in and the various agencies aren't bothering him yet.   I guess Roger Ver avoiding drugs has kept him out of the spotlight or maybe he's giving people envelopes full of cash?

But arguably Roger Ver's rambling and trying to assert an authority image has hurt Bitcoin more than help it (especially the white legal side.  The criminal black side probably loves Roger Ver's libertarian rambles).

Taxation is theft
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June 19, 2025, 10:18:51 PM
 #102

Looking at the last post made in this thread years ago, the irony is that is exactly what the allegation being made against Ver (therefore a perfect excuse to bump the thread).

His extradition case has been going on for a long time and a final decision has not yet been made by the Spanish court on whether he will be extradited.

Taxation is theft

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October 23, 2025, 09:59:27 AM
Last edit: October 23, 2025, 04:58:24 PM by JollyGood
Merited by vapourminer (1), JayJuanGee (1), Lucius (1)
 #103

This is taken from the IRS press release:

In the agreement, Ver admitted that when he filed these returns in May 2016, he did not report all his bitcoins and pay the required capital gains tax on their constructive sale. Ver admitted that his failure to report capital gains from all these bitcoins caused a loss to the United States of $16,864,105. Ver admitted that the understatement of tax caused by his failure to report ownership of all his bitcoins was willful, which is legally defined as the intentional violation of a known legal duty. Accordingly, Ver admitted he owed the maximum penalty available under 26 U.S.C. § 6663 of more than $12 million, as well as interest on the taxes and penalties.

Even when the thread was created in 2017, he had around 300,000 Bitcoin. It seems as though Ver has taken full responsibility for the case against him as he is admitting his actions in not declaring all of his Bitcoin when he filed his returns. He has made a $50 million payment to settle the case against him therefore he is a free man again.

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October 23, 2025, 11:11:03 AM
 #104

~snip~
Even when the thread was created in 2017, he ad around 300,000 Bitcoin. It seems as though Ver has taken full responsibility for what are being as him admitting his actions in not declaring all of his Bitcoin when he filed his returns. He has made a $50 million payment to settle the case against him therefore he is a free man again.


I know this case has been going on for a long time, but I don't understand how someone who obviously has so much money is spending so much time in prison for just $50 million, which I assume he could have paid at any time. For someone who considers themselves above averagely intelligent, they're really willing to mess up as a beginner.

However, he can be considered lucky if he gets out of prison alive, because John McAfee was not lucky enough to see extradition.

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October 23, 2025, 11:53:23 AM
 #105

I am no fan of Roger Ver, he caused a lot of friction during the fork wars. Him, Jihan Wu & others were responsible for a lot of uncertainty & price swings but I do feel for him in this instance. He renounced his US citizenship so that should be the end of it. The IRS has stalked him like a predator for years & he has had to pay $50m to get rid of them, it’s too much imo.
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October 23, 2025, 01:05:40 PM
Merited by gmaxwell (1)
 #106

I know this case has been going on for a long time, but I don't understand how someone who obviously has so much money is spending so much time in prison for just $50 million, which I assume he could have paid at any time. For someone who considers themselves above averagely intelligent, they're really willing to mess up as a beginner.
There is the problem. Most people that consider themselves above averagely intelligent are average or have under average intelligence. Roger Ver is a classic example of Dunning-Kruger, he's one of the most stupid people that have ever had any significance in Bitcoin. If you'd rank Craig Wright as #1, then Ver would take second place.

However, he can be considered lucky if he gets out of prison alive, because John McAfee was not lucky enough to see extradition.
This is a different case though, McAfee was a bigger problem for the US government. Ver is mostly a random that got lucky, without the Bitcoin thing he'd be irrelevant. Similar story as with the relevance of Peter Schiff.

I am no fan of Roger Ver, he caused a lot of friction during the fork wars. Him, Jihan Wu & others were responsible for a lot of uncertainty & price swings but I do feel for him in this instance. He renounced his US citizenship so that should be the end of it. The IRS has stalked him like a predator for years & he has had to pay $50m to get rid of them, it’s too much imo.
It is not. As a US citizen you are under the laws of the US. If you want to exit this relationship you have to pay according to the relevant laws.

Many of you don't know that one of the Ver properties in Thailand is a popular retreat location for crypto bro executives and whales that want to do a drug retreat. Talk about intelligence!  Roll Eyes You won't find this information in the open public though.  Smiley

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October 23, 2025, 05:20:53 PM
 #107

This is what has been attributed by someone promoting the #FreeRogerVer hashtag campaign (Tracy Thurman:

I am very grateful this case has been dismissed and appreciate the Trump Administration’s leadership and professionalism in working towards this final resolution. I am also grateful to everyone who supported me and sought justice in my case.

If the statement was made by Ver, it seems to be a very questionable version of events. To state the case against him was dismissed without adding substantial context (about his admission to tax evasion and by not mentioning he had to pay $50 million to settle the case) seems to be a deliberate move on his part. He could have been more open with the truth and facts.

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October 23, 2025, 06:29:56 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1), Lucius (1)
 #108

He could have been more open with the truth and facts.
But that's how it's been all along-- e.g. he spent a lot of money and time trying to claim that that the charges were the government's retaliation for his book revealing the governments take over of bitcoin, -- but never mind that the crappy ghost written book wasn't even started until long after the government's actions against him began and had even reached the US supreme court.

He did the same thing with his explosives-by-mail stuff many years ago-- tried to claim that the ATF was retaliating against him because he made some random comments disapproving of their actions in the waco incident, as if 3/4 of the country hadn't said similar things.

Quote
Roger Ver is a classic example of Dunning-Kruger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect), he's one of the most stupid people that have ever had any significance in Bitcoin.
I dunno it takes some smarts to be really dumb.  I vaguely recall that the court appointed psychologist in his prior trial said something like he was unable to understand right and wrong except as a proxy for things that benefited him or didn't.  I bet that can explain a lot of apparently dumb conduct without him actually needing to be dumb.

I know this case has been going on for a long time, but I don't understand how someone who obviously has so much money is spending so much time in prison for just $50 million, which I assume he could have paid at any time.
That was one of the mysteries of all this, historically the IRS has been primarily focused on getting their money and mostly lets evaders go if they pay up and absolutely won't if they can but don't.  The legal strategy of arguing that the exit tax was unconstitutional was boneheaded beyond belief-- even for his NSA shill lawyers, Steptoe. (ironic that his PR strategy was to claim he was persecuted for exposing an intelligence plot while literally hiring a firm of ex-intelligence people to represent him).

It may be just that he realizes that he's at some risk of other criminal charges (e.g. for laundering for the gox hacker) and ultimately paying up may not save him from spending his life on the run, and if you're going to be on the run away-- why pay?

How stupid can you really think he is when he walked free and ended up not paying more in taxes than he originally should have-- and had the opportunity to benefit from an extra decade of bitcoin appreciation and the potential that he could have gotten away with it entirely?  I mean call him stupid if you want but I bet he can't hear you over the pile of money that his 'stupid' tactics earned him.

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October 24, 2025, 11:39:47 AM
 #109

I am very grateful this case has been dismissed and appreciate the Trump Administration’s leadership and professionalism in working towards this final resolution. I am also grateful to everyone who supported me and sought justice in my case.

If the statement was made by Ver, it seems to be a very questionable version of events. To state the case against him was dismissed without adding substantial context (about his admission to tax evasion and by not mentioning he had to pay $50 million to settle the case) seems to be a deliberate move on his part. He could have been more open with the truth and facts.

Yeah, considering that you wrote earlier:

It seems as though Ver has taken full responsibility for the case against him as he is admitting his actions in not declaring all of his Bitcoin when he filed his returns.

All he had to do was pay his due taxes to settle the matter. This whole grandstanding the Trump admin is funny because they didn't even have anything to do with the matter.

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October 24, 2025, 01:33:04 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #110

~snip~
It may be just that he realizes that he's at some risk of other criminal charges (e.g. for laundering for the gox hacker) and ultimately paying up may not save him from spending his life on the run, and if you're going to be on the run away-- why pay?

How stupid can you really think he is when he walked free and ended up not paying more in taxes than he originally should have-- and had the opportunity to benefit from an extra decade of bitcoin appreciation and the potential that he could have gotten away with it entirely?  I mean call him stupid if you want but I bet he can't hear you over the pile of money that his 'stupid' tactics earned him.


I don't know how much BTC he actually has today, but the whole thing is about 131 000 BTC which were worth about $7.5 billion at the time of his arrest, and are worth twice that today. Assuming he only owns 10% of it today, it doesn't seem smart to me to spend 1.5 years in prison for the $50 million he was supposed to pay.

Who knows, maybe he actually liked the Spanish prison and wanted to extend his stay as much as possible Roll Eyes

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October 24, 2025, 06:16:57 PM
 #111

It may be just that he realizes that he's at some risk of other criminal charges (e.g. for laundering for the gox hacker) and ultimately paying up may not save him from spending his life on the run, and if you're going to be on the run away-- why pay?

How stupid can you really think he is when he walked free and ended up not paying more in taxes than he originally should have-- and had the opportunity to benefit from an extra decade of bitcoin appreciation and the potential that he could have gotten away with it entirely?  I mean call him stupid if you want but I bet he can't hear you over the pile of money that his 'stupid' tactics earned him.

Sure Ver has been involved in so many ways to "invest" in bitcoin-related businesses and activities over the years, so it could be question able the extent to which he was able to hold onto good portions of his BTC stash including likely losing leveraging that he was doing to support and/or attempt to prop up Bcash - and even in the 2022 crashening times, weren't there rumors that he had some naked margin bets (meaning no collateral) that he failed/refused to pay some exchange when the bets had gone against him.. .so the exchange ended up holding Ver's bags, which might mean he was unable to pay, but still since we know Roger has various self-absorbed (and quasi-delusional) conniving angles to his personality, he may well could have had been unwilling to pay rather than unable to pay.

As you mentioned, surely Ver was able to considerably profit from his failure to pay, and even though it can be difficult to sympathize for the government, Bitcoin's appreciation did seem to disproportionately advantage Ver rather than the government, yet we are put into a tough position to argue that the government should have had gotten more and surely lucky for Ver to negotiate staying out of Jail.   Accordingly, it does seem to be the case that the USA government counted the tax that was due in dollars and even if they doubled the amounts for various penalties, Ver was able to still considerably profit from Bitcoin's upside by not having to sell some of his bitcoin to satisfy the tax payment when it was actually due.

I tend to think that it tends to be better when settlements can be reached, but yeah, Roger has some questionable past behaviors that might end up catching up with him, yet at the same time, anyone who is a public figure and also potentially funding various projects, there can be questions regarding the various account, and it can be quite a pain in the ass to engage in various kinds of accounting. .which maybe some of us might consider that it is not such a bad thing to have questionable accounting if the money ultimately goes to good causes such as funding some kind of development or activity that might be under represented and not getting funding... but then sometimes the matters being funded might be questionable as well... and it can take a bit of sleuthing to figure out some of the relationships regarding who is funding who and for what kinds of "business" activities?

~snip~
It may be just that he realizes that he's at some risk of other criminal charges (e.g. for laundering for the gox hacker) and ultimately paying up may not save him from spending his life on the run, and if you're going to be on the run away-- why pay?

How stupid can you really think he is when he walked free and ended up not paying more in taxes than he originally should have-- and had the opportunity to benefit from an extra decade of bitcoin appreciation and the potential that he could have gotten away with it entirely?  I mean call him stupid if you want but I bet he can't hear you over the pile of money that his 'stupid' tactics earned him.

I don't know how much BTC he actually has today, but the whole thing is about 131 000 BTC which were worth about $7.5 billion at the time of his arrest, and are worth twice that today. Assuming he only owns 10% of it today, it doesn't seem smart to me to spend 1.5 years in prison for the $50 million he was supposed to pay.

That is the thing with bitcoin, it might still be difficult to be positive about the totals - except to the extent that Ver might have had admitted to some of the totals or if the evidence is fairly strong about ownership.  We frequently might not know who to trust regarding the numbers, yet calculating that he could have screwed up a lot, and he ONLY retains about 10% of the coins that he owned 10-ish years ago, then 131k bitcoin had gone down to 13.1k bitcoin (today's price of around $1.4 billion), so if that were true, he still would have quite a bit of value to work with... and in those circumstances, $50 million-ish seems within reason to be able to stay out of jail for this case (to the extent that he does not have other matters, like Greg points out).

Who knows, maybe he actually liked the Spanish prison and wanted to extend his stay as much as possible Roll Eyes

I doubt that Ver wants to be in prison, and surely it could be the case that the US government were not really negotiating with Roger in good faith (as Roger alleges), yet we likely have to take Roger's representations with a grain of salt, since historically he has shown himself to have tendencies to exaggerate and spin within situations that we know the evidence, so then if we do not know the evidence, it can be problematic to rely upon Roger's version of events.

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