Why Ripple™ is against everything Bitcoin

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

@JoelKatz

Introduction

Ripple is an open source peer-to-peer payment system. (LIE !!) Ripple lets you easily, cheaply, and safely send money over the Internet to anyone, anywhere in the world. Because Ripple is P2P software, no individual, corporation, or government controls Ripple. Anyone can create a Ripple account. The Ripple network operates through the combined efforts of the copies of the Ripple software that are running all over the world.

Like Bitcoin:
    Ripple is an open source, distributed peer-to-peer payment network (LIE !!)
    Ripple transactions are irreversible, sent over the Internet, and counterfeit proof (LIE !!)
    Ripple uses the same underlying cryptography as Bitcoin (LIE !!)

LIARS, LIARS, LIARS !!

Please do something for me: DIE.

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[JoelKatz]

LIARS, LIARS, LIARS !!

Please do something for me: DIE.

In the two decades that I've discussed everything from politics to religion to philosophy over the Internet with people, I can count on my two hands the number of times I've become convinced that a person was not arguing in good faith. You have joined a very exclusive club.

[oakpacific]

LIARS, LIARS, LIARS !!

Please do something for me: DIE.

In the more than a decade that I've discussed everything from politics to religion to philosophy over the Internet with people, I can count on my two hands the number of times I've become convinced that a person was not arguing in good faith. You have joined a very exclusive club.

Joel, can I get a reply to my last question: is there a place where I can see the total amount of XRPs in circulation? Thanks.

[nameface]

Please do something for me: DIE.

Yeah, I'm sure they'll get right on that.  

Sure, Ripple is closed source masquerading as open source on the wiki, but they intend to go open source as soon as possible. So what's the big deal? It's in beta.

I feel like you overly hate-filled P-BARs could be fakes, repeating the same arguments over and over again in an attempt to numb us until we stop caring about any true flaws in Ripple. Creating simple straw men that even newbs like me can attack, all in an effort to compel everyone that Ripple is actually stronger than it is. Or are you just an idiot?

[misterbigg]

Joel, can I get a reply to my last question: is there a place where I can see the total amount of XRPs in circulation? Thanks.

If you go to https://ripple.com/graph you can see the total number of XRP in existence. This doesn't tell you which ones are owned by OpenCoin. But there's a spreadsheet floating around somewhere that has the account numbers which hold the initial billions, you can subtract those out and compute what's out. Last I checked the total XRP in circulation was about 700 million.

[JoelKatz]

Joel, can I get a reply to my last question: is there a place where I can see the total amount of XRPs in circulation? Thanks.

It kind of depends on what you mean by "in circulation". But assuming the most natural interpretation, I believe the number is a bit less than one billion. I'll try to find out a more accurate number.

[Coinseeker]

Here's how I see it:

[cypherdoc]

what i think is happening is that the OpenCoin dev team is beginning to realize that all the arguments being presented in this forum by Ripple skeptics are real, a true problem, and not imaginary.  

i believe there is a scramble going on within trying to address all the good points made in this, and other threads, by ppl like myself who have significant concerns.

thus, the seemingly endless delay in opening the code.  the real problem then would be if it's even possible to re-engineer the Ripple concept.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

LIARS, LIARS, LIARS !!

Please do something for me: DIE.

In the two decades that I've discussed everything from politics to religion to philosophy over the Internet with people, I can count on my two hands the number of times I've become convinced that a person was not arguing in good faith. You have joined a very exclusive club.

Little explanation:
I didn't mean for you to actually "die", but I am pretty damn angry for cheating me this way nevertheless.

You are scammers just for the fact of lying on your site & wiki. I hope you realize that.

[Coinseeker]

what i think is happening is that the OpenCoin dev team is beginning to realize that all the arguments being presented in this forum by Ripple skeptics are real, a true problem, and not imaginary.  

i believe there is a scramble going on within trying to address all the good points made in this, and other threads, by ppl like myself who have significant concerns.

thus, the seemingly endless delay in opening the code.  the real problem then would be if it's even possible to re-engineer the Ripple concept.

While all this is speculation, I don't think there's a scramble at all.  Why would there need to be?  It's been clear from the start that Ripple is in beta and has made promises that it intends to honor (open source and others) once it comes out of beta.  What I see is fear from the mining community who seem threatened by something that isn't a competitor, which I don't understand.  The proper approach, as has been repeated over and over again, is wait and see.  If anything OpenCoin is fully aware they are going to be held to the highest standards possible by the crypto community and if they are wise, are working to honor every promise made.  

I will continue to give them the benefit of the doubt because I think the advantages, that I do understand, are worth it. Bitcoin certainly isn't doing anything to make up for it's own shortcoming.  

[QuestionAuthority]

Is it really a lie when it's on wiki? I don't believe anything I read on wiki until i verify it somewhere else because too many people can edit it.

[anti-scam]

LIARS, LIARS, LIARS !!

Please do something for me: DIE.

In the two decades that I've discussed everything from politics to religion to philosophy over the Internet with people, I can count on my two hands the number of times I've become convinced that a person was not arguing in good faith. You have joined a very exclusive club.

Telling people to die is definitely overboard. I wouldn't even wish death on RealSolid.

I feel like you overly hate-filled P-BARs could be fakes, repeating the same arguments over and over again in an attempt to numb us until we stop caring about any true flaws in Ripple. Creating simple straw men that even newbs like me can attack, all in an effort to compel everyone that Ripple is actually stronger than it is. Or are you just an idiot?

This is a good point. If ShadowOfHarbringer is real then he needs to tone it down. He also needs to realize that the fundamental problem with Ripple is that it uses a pre-mined currency. Its closed source code is just another example of OpenCoin's tendency toward centralization.

[lexxus]

Can somebody explain what is the problem with making a pre-mined currency? If it's a common knowledge, I don't see any problem.

[cypherdoc]

what i think is happening is that the OpenCoin dev team is beginning to realize that all the arguments being presented in this forum by Ripple skeptics are real, a true problem, and not imaginary.  

i believe there is a scramble going on within trying to address all the good points made in this, and other threads, by ppl like myself who have significant concerns.

thus, the seemingly endless delay in opening the code.  the real problem then would be if it's even possible to re-engineer the Ripple concept.

While all this is speculation, I don't think there's a scramble at all.  Why would there need to be?  It's been clear from the start that Ripple is in beta and has made promises that it intends to honor (open source and others) once it comes out of beta.  What I see is fear from the mining community who seem threatened by something that isn't a competitor, which I don't understand.  The proper approach, as has been repeated over and over again, is wait and see.  If anything OpenCoin is fully aware they are going to be held to the highest standards possible by the crypto community and if they are wise, are working to honor every promise made.  

I will continue to give them the benefit of the doubt because I think the advantages, that I do understand, are worth it. Bitcoin certainly isn't doing anything to make up for it's own shortcoming.  

i base this on a matter of timing.

if i were in charge of their marketing, i would not have issued all those Ripples, nor started talking about it on this forum, until i was ready to release the code.  perhaps they thought they were until the blowback started.

this delay is hurting them clearly.

even Joel's tone has changed in his conciliatory response to evoorhees above.  

[anti-scam]

Can somebody explain what is the problem with making a pre-mined currency? If it's a common knowledge, I don't see any problem.

1. OpenCoin can manipulate the price by dumping XRPs.
2. It's a centralized feature that goes against the decentralization ethos of the cryptocurrency community. There's a reason that Satoshi didn't do it.
3. It is arguably unfair.
4. If there's this much controversy over it on these forums then your average person will never accept it. They are already wary of cryptocurrency.

With Bitcoin I can say that the coins are given out via lottery. This seems fair to people. With XRP I have to say that the creators gave themselves all 100 billion of it and intend on using most of it for profit. They won't accept that.

[cypherdoc]

Can somebody explain what is the problem with making a pre-mined currency? If it's a common knowledge, I don't see any problem.

1. OpenCoin can manipulate the price by dumping XRPs.
2. It's a centralized feature that goes against the decentralization ethos of the cryptocurrency community. There's a reason that Satoshi didn't do it.
3. It is arguably unfair.
4. If there's this much controversy over it on these forums then your average person will never accept it. They are already wary of cryptocurrency.

With Bitcoin I can say that the coins are given out via lottery. This seems fair to people. With XRP I have to say that the creators gave themselves all 100 billion of it and intend on using most of it for profit. They won't accept that.

sorry, need to add to this list:

5.  based on non-contractual debt
6.  trust based
7.  not only OpenCoin, but gateways, are centralized.

[Coinseeker]

what i think is happening is that the OpenCoin dev team is beginning to realize that all the arguments being presented in this forum by Ripple skeptics are real, a true problem, and not imaginary.  

i believe there is a scramble going on within trying to address all the good points made in this, and other threads, by ppl like myself who have significant concerns.

thus, the seemingly endless delay in opening the code.  the real problem then would be if it's even possible to re-engineer the Ripple concept.

While all this is speculation, I don't think there's a scramble at all.  Why would there need to be?  It's been clear from the start that Ripple is in beta and has made promises that it intends to honor (open source and others) once it comes out of beta.  What I see is fear from the mining community who seem threatened by something that isn't a competitor, which I don't understand.  The proper approach, as has been repeated over and over again, is wait and see.  If anything OpenCoin is fully aware they are going to be held to the highest standards possible by the crypto community and if they are wise, are working to honor every promise made.  

I will continue to give them the benefit of the doubt because I think the advantages, that I do understand, are worth it. Bitcoin certainly isn't doing anything to make up for it's own shortcoming.  

i base this on a matter of timing.

if i were in charge of their marketing, i would not have issued all those Ripples, nor started talking about it on this forum, until i was ready to release the code.  perhaps they thought they were until the blowback started.

this delay is hurting them clearly.

even Joel's tone has changed in his conciliatory response to evoorhees above.  

You could be right.  I took the "tone" as frustration having to repeat himself over and over again, because people don't actually read posts that are contradictory to their ideological beliefs, then hurl insults and attempt to slander someones credibility and integrity.  Additionally, I don't consider a few forum posts as legitimate "blowback" Again, they are not competitors and it dosen't really matter what a handful of bitcoiners thinks.  Ripple is aiming to be bigger than bitcoin in it's own right, not as the new Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is just one currency that's usable within the Ripple network.  Bitcoiners should be happy about that.

[QuestionAuthority]

Can someone explain how Ripple does the automatic currency exchange between Bitcoin and fiat? Wouldn't they need to go through an exchange like MtGox to do that?

[Coinseeker]

Can someone explain how Ripple does the automatic currency exchange between Bitcoin and fiat? Wouldn't they need to go through an exchange like MtGox to do that?

Yes, that's the gateway. 

[QuestionAuthority]

Can someone explain how Ripple does the automatic currency exchange between Bitcoin and fiat? Wouldn't they need to go through an exchange like MtGox to do that?

Yes, that's the gateway. 

Do they have a MtGox account/bank accounts everywhere or are they going to make an exchange, essentially be a bank?