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Author Topic: I'm MtGox, here's my side.  (Read 33837 times)
Terpie
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June 20, 2011, 11:35:23 PM
 #41

What is this supposed to indicate?  That Kevin put his sell order in before the selloff began, rather than during or after the 30-some minute trade finished up, like he said?

Hey, doesn't matter either way.

THEY'RE GETTING THE AUTHORITIES INVOLVED.

And the authorities will be like "oh, so you were running what?  

A securities exchange?

 A what exchange?  

Ok, so you held the equivalent of multiple millions of dollars on your site?

Ok, and then you just, GAVE your ENTIRE database to a third party?  

Ok, and did you verify the absolute security of this third party?

You didn't...no, you didn't."

And they go from there.

MagicalTux, you are a fucking idiot, and should have saved your breath and your time and go simper away while trying to salvage your failed little pathetic website.

You are by far the worst troll here.

Why do you care when it appears you think this of bitcoin...

You got me.

Come claim your prize, 10 billion Linden Do...I mean Floo...I mean Tuli...I mean Bitcoins.
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Freakin
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June 20, 2011, 11:35:33 PM
 #42

What I don't understand is what Kevin logging in around the same time the hacker did, what about everyone else? EVERYONE was logging in around that time, so it seems to me like he is trying to make Kevin look like hes working with the hacker, but yet doesn't post logs of all the others who logged in, and if you can recall everyone was..



this is the first intelligent thing I've seen you post, and I completely agree.

When I saw the market crashing I (and probably many others) logged in immediately.  Some were trying to sell coins during the crash, others were trying to buy cheap coins.

I don't suspect any malfeasance on Kevin's part.
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June 20, 2011, 11:36:07 PM
 #43

Hey, doesn't matter either way.

THEY'RE GETTING THE AUTHORITIES INVOLVED.

And the authorities will be like "oh, so you were running what?  

I think we're going to need to mail MagicalTux a cake with a file in it.

When you dance with a bear, you stop when the bear wants to stop.  

bitbitcoincoin
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June 20, 2011, 11:37:51 PM
 #44

What is this supposed to indicate?  That Kevin put his sell order in before the selloff began, rather than during or after the 30-some minute trade finished up, like he said?

Hey, doesn't matter either way.

THEY'RE GETTING THE AUTHORITIES INVOLVED.

And the authorities will be like "oh, so you were running what?  

A securities exchange?

 A what exchange?  

Ok, so you held the equivalent of multiple millions of dollars on your site?

Ok, and then you just, GAVE your ENTIRE database to a third party?  

Ok, and did you verify the absolute security of this third party?

You didn't...no, you didn't."

And they go from there.

MagicalTux, you are a fucking idiot, and should have saved your breath and your time and go simper away while trying to salvage your failed little pathetic website.

You are by far the worst troll here.

Why do you care when it appears you think this of bitcoin...

You got me.

Come claim your prize, 10 billion Linden Do...I mean Floo...I mean Tuli...I mean Bitcoins.

Agree 100%

Synaptic has to be the worst troll on this site.  He poisons nearly every thread.
sharky112065
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June 20, 2011, 11:38:19 PM
 #45

From what you have posted on your site that it was an internal breach, you should be compensating your customers after he rollback in the form of 2 weeks with no fees. That may help you build a little good will back.

Bad things happen and I support the rollback and they way you have handled this so far.

Anyway that's just my opinion.


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MoonShadow
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June 20, 2011, 11:38:33 PM
 #46

I'm on Gox's side.  Every network/site is vulnerable in some way.  In this case, it was through a trusted user.

While Gox may have granted more access to that user than they should have, it was certainly not grossly irresponsible of them to do so.  

Look at how many Sony properties have been hacked, and how many more "experts" they have in their employ, with huge amounts of revenue/profits.  

How about RSA?  They are a company that is pretty much 100% focused on security and represents the de facto standard in two-factor authentication.  Their entire RSA ID product was compromised and caused Lockheed Martin to be compromised as well.

And you guys are getting upset at Gox for a auditor not securing his laptop and resulting in a bunch of illegitimate trades that are completely reversible, with Gox eating the non-reversible damages?



EXCEPT MT GOX WAS SUPPOSEDLY A FINANCIAL MARKET.

They are held to a different standard BY LAW, than some shit like PSN.

And everyone did know, or at least reasonablely should have known, that MtGox was neither a financial market regulated under the laws of any particular nation nor even international law.  None of the Bitcoin markets are subject to such regulations, and thus such standards do not apply to Bitcoin markets.  At least not as of yet.  Anyone who was operating under any other perspective did so at their own risk.  This is risky business that we engage in, wildcat banking and finance.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
grue
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June 20, 2011, 11:38:50 PM
 #47

What I don't understand is what Kevin logging in around the same time the hacker did, what about everyone else? EVERYONE was logging in around that time, so it seems to me like he is trying to make Kevin look like hes working with the hacker, but yet doesn't post logs of all the others who logged in, and if you can recall everyone was..



this is the first intelligent thing I've seen you post, and I completely agree.

When I saw the market crashing I (and probably many others) logged in immediately.  Some were trying to sell coins during the crash, others were trying to buy cheap coins.

I don't suspect any malfeasance on Kevin's part.
he logged in, and placed a 0.01 order 12 minutes BEFORE the hacker started the selloff.

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

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MyFarm
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June 20, 2011, 11:39:10 PM
 #48

What I don't understand is what Kevin logging in around the same time the hacker did, what about everyone else? EVERYONE was logging in around that time, so it seems to me like he is trying to make Kevin look like hes working with the hacker, but yet doesn't post logs of all the others who logged in, and if you can recall everyone was.

Exactly.  That they would use that information to try to turn the tides against Kevin shows what kind of company this is.  Based upon their "proof" they're going to be reporting a shitload of us to the FBI as suspects.  I know I'm on that list because I saw the market crashing and wanted to jump in.
vrotaru
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June 20, 2011, 11:39:40 PM
 #49

What is this supposed to indicate?  That Kevin put his sell order in before the selloff began, rather than during or after the 30-some minute trade finished up, like he said?

It indicates Kevin logged in 10 minutes after the sell-off began and put in his buy order for 0.01c - now one could assume from that either:


I see the logged in part, I do not see the "buy order for 0.01c" part.  At the same time I mean. Can you/anyone elaborate?
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June 20, 2011, 11:40:24 PM
 #50

Phew. I am gald not to be the guy who brought the dinky site that blew up in popularity along with bitcoin and have to handle millions dollars worth of money everyday.

My site grew up along with bitcoin too but it was just a small unimportant magazine.  Wink

Synaptic
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June 20, 2011, 11:40:51 PM
 #51

I'm on Gox's side.  Every network/site is vulnerable in some way.  In this case, it was through a trusted user.

While Gox may have granted more access to that user than they should have, it was certainly not grossly irresponsible of them to do so.  

Look at how many Sony properties have been hacked, and how many more "experts" they have in their employ, with huge amounts of revenue/profits.  

How about RSA?  They are a company that is pretty much 100% focused on security and represents the de facto standard in two-factor authentication.  Their entire RSA ID product was compromised and caused Lockheed Martin to be compromised as well.

And you guys are getting upset at Gox for a auditor not securing his laptop and resulting in a bunch of illegitimate trades that are completely reversible, with Gox eating the non-reversible damages?



EXCEPT MT GOX WAS SUPPOSEDLY A FINANCIAL MARKET.

They are held to a different standard BY LAW, than some shit like PSN.

And everyone did know, or at least reasonablely should have known, that MtGox was neither a financial market regulated under the laws of any particular nation nor even international law.  None of the Bitcoin markets are subject to such regulations, and thus such standards do not apply to Bitcoin markets.  At least not as of yet.  Anyone who was operating under any other perspective did so at their own risk.  This is risky business that we engage in, wildcat banking and finance.

QED.

Q fucking ED.

And they want to get the Law involved.

I mean, I have to stifle my laughter...
MyFarm
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June 20, 2011, 11:41:00 PM
 #52

he logged in, and placed a 0.01 order 12 minutes BEFORE the hacker started the selloff.
No, all it shows is a login.  Where does it show the placed order?  It doesn't.
Freakin
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June 20, 2011, 11:41:05 PM
 #53

What I don't understand is what Kevin logging in around the same time the hacker did, what about everyone else? EVERYONE was logging in around that time, so it seems to me like he is trying to make Kevin look like hes working with the hacker, but yet doesn't post logs of all the others who logged in, and if you can recall everyone was..



this is the first intelligent thing I've seen you post, and I completely agree.

When I saw the market crashing I (and probably many others) logged in immediately.  Some were trying to sell coins during the crash, others were trying to buy cheap coins.

I don't suspect any malfeasance on Kevin's part.
he logged in, and placed a 0.01 order 12 minutes BEFORE the hacker started the selloff.

That is not stated.  It is only stated that he logged in 12 minutes after the hacker.  

When did the actual selloff start?  i saw it in the mid teens $ around the :30 minute mark.
epii
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June 20, 2011, 11:41:08 PM
 #54

Hey, doesn't matter either way.

THEY'RE GETTING THE AUTHORITIES INVOLVED.

And the authorities will be like "oh, so you were running what?  

I think we're going to need to mail MagicalTux a cake with a file in it.

When you dance with a bear, you stop when the bear wants to stop.  


I'm pretty sure MT has been one of the more proactive exchange operators when it comes to covering their bases legally ahead of time.  He pays taxes, and just a few days ago he was offering to cooperate with any authorities investigating Silk Road.  The evidence I've seen is that MT has tried to make Mt. Gox as not-under-the-table as possible.

Vires In Numeris.
MoonShadow
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June 20, 2011, 11:41:50 PM
 #55


Agree 100%

Synaptic has to be the worst troll on this site.  He poisons nearly every thread.

Trust me, Synaptic is definately not the worst troll on this site.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
Phil21
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June 20, 2011, 11:42:36 PM
 #56

Exactly.  That they would use that information to try to turn the tides against Kevin shows what kind of company this is.  Based upon their "proof" they're going to be reporting a shitload of us to the FBI as suspects.  I know I'm on that list because I saw the market crashing and wanted to jump in.

Perfect.  I wish I could have articulated my point this well!  I tip my hat to you Smiley  The standards at which this site seems to be operated at, are far below that of even the most basic adult websites out there.  At least when they get owned due to poor investment in their security, they don't blame their customers and are generally rather contrite about it.

Good luck to all involved, and here is to moving past this!
Klestin
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June 20, 2011, 11:42:55 PM
 #57

Does MtGox still maintain that only a single account was compromised, an account which held 500,000 BTC?
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June 20, 2011, 11:43:12 PM
 #58

I think everyone is getting confused, including me.

Those logs say nothing about when Kevin actually placed the bid order, or when the hacker placed the sell order. Did the hacker place the sell order on the first time he logged in, or the last time he logged in? Did Kevin log in that one time and then keep refreshing the page so that he doesn't get logged off (I know I do) , and then placed the buy order much later?

MagicalTux, you have anything to say about this?

It's better to be pissed off, than to be pissed on.
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jatajuta
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June 20, 2011, 11:43:29 PM
 #59

Exactly.  That they would use that information to try to turn the tides against Kevin shows what kind of company this is.  Based upon their "proof" they're going to be reporting a shitload of us to the FBI as suspects.  I know I'm on that list because I saw the market crashing and wanted to jump in.

I was save because of my need for sleep  Grin
neneko
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June 20, 2011, 11:44:02 PM
 #60

I honestly hope people abandon Mt Gox after this fiasco. Not in any way because I want people to abandon bitcoins. I hope bitcoins won't be affected too much because of this and from the look of things on other market sites it looks like the worst is over. People have a too strong connection between mt gox and bitcoins anyway.

Mt Gox have had big security flaws and an assortment of other bugs on the site that have gone unfixed for a very long time. People on this board keep defending magicaltux mostly arguing that he's a nice guy which while I'm sure is true doesn't qualify him to run a currency exchange. If we want to be able to use bitcoins as a real currency and want it to have value we need to start treating it as something with value.

Any site that's trading with currencies or anything else where they have to hold significant amounts of money for their customers with these kinds of security flaws wouldn't be taken seriously and still I feel like we're trying to sweep this under the carpet in this case. I think it's because we're afraid that bitcoins will go under without mt gox and I don't think that's true. There are other markets and they will be much more populated now that mt gox have proven to be run un-professionally.

For the record I'm not making this post because I'm angry at mt gox for losing bitcoins. I haven't. As soon as the complaints about peoples accounts getting stolen started streaming in from left and right I felt something was wrong and removed all my money and bitcoins from mt gox. I make this post because if we don't move the main exchange of bitcoins to a market where people feel secure then that will have an effect on the trading.
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