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Author Topic: I'm MtGox, here's my side.  (Read 33849 times)
Clipse
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June 21, 2011, 12:29:17 AM
 #121

This indicates that Kevin put that buy order for 0.01 almost an hour before the hacker started selling off everything. Which is a bit suspicious, I mean, who puts in buy orders for one cents, and $3000 worth of it to boot?

To be fair, I put one in on TradeHill just before I left home for a few hours, because I saw a paste of a paste of a paste of what was allegedly Atlas saying that if MtGox went through with the rollback he was going to liquidate his 250kBTC, and I thought "plz do".

The rollback response came AFTER the whole crash incident, what does your post incident order have to do with anything related to the crash ?

Whatever atlas posted afterwards was a response to what mtgox said he would do to manage this meltdown. Your buy order relation to the crash would be valid if you did it inbetween or before the crash.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

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June 21, 2011, 12:30:26 AM
 #122

I am unable to login to Mt. Gox.  Says they don't have my email.   Is this true for everyone or what. I really can't get a clear response. Thank you.
This will be the case until they launch the account restoration page.

Vires In Numeris.
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June 21, 2011, 12:36:45 AM
 #123


Although the question remains, what was the motivation of the hacker to crash the market?

I can make an educated guess but dont take it as the absolute reason.

The hacker knew of the $1000 equiv maximum withdrawal daily limit and got access to a huge account (people arguing it may actually be mtgox aka the whole exchange account) and then proceeded to use half the funds to crash the market value down to 0.01 per BTC.

The hacker clearly didnt understand that the withdrawal is based on daily(or weekly, not 100% sure myself) weighted price thus when he crashed it down with half the BTC in the account he figured he would be able to withdraw the maximum of the remainder which would be 100 000 BTC except this failed miserably because the weighted price afaik were around $4.50 so he could withdraw a maximum of ~222 BTC.

This is my understanding as to why we are fortunate enough not to have lost 100 000 BTC with the crash withdrawal.

The interesting part however is that kevin seems to be the only person who gained a large purchase >260k BTC out of this which in itself makes it suspicious since thousands of traders were actively trading at that point and simply going with the "he was the lucky one" argument also doesnt fit.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

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June 21, 2011, 12:40:01 AM
 #124


Agree 100%

Synaptic has to be the worst troll on this site.  He poisons nearly every thread.

Trust me, Synaptic is definately not the worst troll on this site.

I think he meant that he's the worst because he's not very good at it.

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June 21, 2011, 12:42:02 AM
 #125

/subbed.

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June 21, 2011, 12:44:01 AM
 #126

The interesting part however is that kevin seems to be the only person who gained a large purchase >260k BTC out of this which in itself makes it suspicious since thousands of traders were actively trading at that point and simply going with the "he was the lucky one" argument also doesnt fit.


If Kevin is the hacker, which seems a ridiculous conclusion to draw from this, but if he is, he must be both incredibly dumb and
in possession of an enormous pair of gonads.
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June 21, 2011, 12:45:22 AM
 #127

Notice : Clipse, just answered part of my concern above.

Trying to understand the motive of the hacker ,,, Why didn't he just moved parts if not all 500k BTC away from Mtgox ?  He didn't wanted his BTC to be eventually traced to him ?

Could the network had been modified as to effectively invalidate the stolen BTC ?  (I bet a lot of people wouldn't care less about the origin of their BTC)

How many dirt cheap BTC were withdrawn from MTgox after the crash ?  !!!

In other words, What was lost ? / Why not more ?
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June 21, 2011, 12:46:15 AM
 #128

MT, how does this square with you telling me a few days prior to the attack that there were no more individual user acct balances; just a global balance where everyone's coins are mixed together? 

you also told me that you had transferred the 432K on June 12 after the selloff from $30 to an offline site for protection.  but i then saw you make another transfer of those same btc's near the end of the attack.

just asking...
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June 21, 2011, 12:46:35 AM
 #129

I find it funny that Kevin (toasty)'s last post was 2 minutes before this thread was started. If he were truly innocent in all of this, wouldn't he be trying to explain himself in this matter?

Just because you see an unlocked car, with its windows down, at 1:30am in the middle of a shitty neighborhood, doesn't mean you can take the laptop and briefcase full of money from the front seat. Stealing is stealing.

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June 21, 2011, 12:47:26 AM
 #130


I think you guys owe us all at least a redacted version of what the hell actually happened.

Do you think that you could wait until they have had a chance to figure it out?

Another 6 months?

Does anyone still remember how MtGox handled the last situation where there was a large amount at stake for MtGox?

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=3712.0

That guy explained himself, was hounded by the community, MtGox barely bothered to respond, made some outlandish claims, froze funds and rapidly moved the whole operation to a different jurisdiction (Japan) after the guy finaly decided to get lawyers involved.

MtGox promised to inform the community! No news yet, and it´s been 6 months!
That's at least the third time you've posted that now.  Not that I think you have an agenda or anything.

While we're quoting our own posts:
It's a controversial incident and I don't claim to have all the facts, but for the sake of cutting through the FUD... it's actually only been three months since Mt. Gox commented on this:
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=3712.msg57901#msg57901
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=3712.msg62282#msg62282

The last comment was that they couldn't say anything more because it might go to trial.  This will be satisfactory for some people and not for others, but there is no clear evidence that they ever behaved unprofessionally.


To be precise, it´s exactly the third time I have posted this information, because I do believe it to be relevant to the current situation with MtGox and I usually don´t post all that much despite reading the forums for quite some time.

Whilst you provided an ad hominem attack, I am still waiting for your answer to my question: Is it going to be (another) 6 month till MtGox resolves&explains the current situation?
For a currency that has gone really mainstream over just about the last month, this does not quite seem to cut it.

I´d be really interested to hear your response, if you´re not to busy hyping MtGox.

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June 21, 2011, 12:48:08 AM
 #131


Although the question remains, what was the motivation of the hacker to crash the market?

I can make an educated guess but dont take it as the absolute reason.

The hacker knew of the $1000 equiv maximum withdrawal daily limit and got access to a huge account (people arguing it may actually be mtgox aka the whole exchange account) and then proceeded to use half the funds to crash the market value down to 0.01 per BTC.

The hacker clearly didnt understand that the withdrawal is based on daily(or weekly, not 100% sure myself) weighted price thus when he crashed it down with half the BTC in the account he figured he would be able to withdraw the maximum of the remainder which would be 100 000 BTC except this failed miserably because the weighted price afaik were around $4.50 so he could withdraw a maximum of ~222 BTC.

This is my understanding as to why we are fortunate enough not to have lost 100 000 BTC with the crash withdrawal.

The interesting part however is that kevin seems to be the only person who gained a large purchase >260k BTC out of this which in itself makes it suspicious since thousands of traders were actively trading at that point and simply going with the "he was the lucky one" argument also doesnt fit.

Yes this was the story.. until the Kevin thing came along. Kevin's name can be cleared if we know that the hacker put in a bid for .01 on a second compromised account?

MagicalTux, to prove that Kevin is in on it, you must prove that  the hacker did not attempt to do this. Show us the bids below Kevin's that were not hit, and find out if those bids were put in my the legitimate user.  


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June 21, 2011, 12:51:42 AM
 #132

Notice : Clipse, just answered part of my concern above.

Trying to understand the motive of the hacker ,,, Why didn't he just moved parts if not all 500k BTC away from Mtgox ?  He didn't wanted his BTC to be eventually traced to him ?

Could the network had been modified as to effectively invalidate the stolen BTC ?  (I bet a lot of people wouldn't care less about the origin of their BTC)

How many dirt cheap BTC were withdrawn from MTgox after the crash ?  !!!

In other words, What was lost ? / Why not more ?

Before the crash he knew he couldnt move alot of BTC since the value was around $17.50 so by the $1000 limit he would only be able to withdraw ~57 BTC so he must have thought if he crash the market the price adjusted down to 0.01 then he could withdraw 100 000, he was wrong.

If he could get 100k out and wait around till everything subside in a couple of months(or even trade it on a lowdown black market) he could get away with the real value whatever it is at that time.

Again this is my personal opinion.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

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June 21, 2011, 12:52:24 AM
 #133


MT posts some random selective login (why?) logs, and you immediately believe him? hmm.

I posted all the logins on Kevin's and the hacked account for May 19th.

so you are still using that BS story that it was ONE hacked account with 500k coins and a weak password that was found by MD5 hashing the database leaked by an auditor?
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June 21, 2011, 12:54:40 AM
 #134

The rollback response came AFTER the whole crash incident, what does your post incident order have to do with anything related to the crash ?

Whatever atlas posted afterwards was a response to what mtgox said he would do to manage this meltdown. Your buy order relation to the crash would be valid if you did it inbetween or before the crash.

My point was simply addressing the question "who puts in a huge buy order at $0.01". Answer: lots of people.

However what doesn't jibe is not that someone would put a big buy order in for a penny, but that Kevin said he put it in while he saw something was going on (rather the conclusion I drew from watching his interview was that when he placed the buy order, he knew full well they probably weren't legitimate trades), while MtGox appears to be claiming the buy orders were posted prior to the crash.

What I'm saying is it's not the big, next-to-nothing buy order that's suspicious, but the alleged timing of it (either way, whichever story is the truth).

^_^
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June 21, 2011, 12:54:45 AM
 #135

Notice : Clipse, just answered part of my concern above.

Trying to understand the motive of the hacker ,,, Why didn't he just moved parts if not all 500k BTC away from Mtgox ?  He didn't wanted his BTC to be eventually traced to him ?

Could the network had been modified as to effectively invalidate the stolen BTC ?  (I bet a lot of people wouldn't care less about the origin of their BTC)

How many dirt cheap BTC were withdrawn from MTgox after the crash ?  !!!

In other words, What was lost ? / Why not more ?

Before the crash he knew he couldnt move alot of BTC since the value was around $17.50 so by the $1000 limit he would only be able to withdraw ~57 BTC so he must have thought if he crash the market the price adjusted down to 0.01 then he could withdraw 100 000, he was wrong.

If he could get 100k out and wait around till everything subside in a couple of months(or even trade it on a lowdown black market) he could get away with the real value whatever it is at that time.

Again this is my personal opinion.

or it could've been a gov't or bank that wanted the btc price crashed...
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June 21, 2011, 12:54:52 AM
 #136


Although the question remains, what was the motivation of the hacker to crash the market?

I can make an educated guess but dont take it as the absolute reason.

The hacker knew of the $1000 equiv maximum withdrawal daily limit and got access to a huge account (people arguing it may actually be mtgox aka the whole exchange account) and then proceeded to use half the funds to crash the market value down to 0.01 per BTC.

The hacker clearly didnt understand that the withdrawal is based on daily(or weekly, not 100% sure myself) weighted price thus when he crashed it down with half the BTC in the account he figured he would be able to withdraw the maximum of the remainder which would be 100 000 BTC except this failed miserably because the weighted price afaik were around $4.50 so he could withdraw a maximum of ~222 BTC.

This is my understanding as to why we are fortunate enough not to have lost 100 000 BTC with the crash withdrawal.

The interesting part however is that kevin seems to be the only person who gained a large purchase >260k BTC out of this which in itself makes it suspicious since thousands of traders were actively trading at that point and simply going with the "he was the lucky one" argument also doesnt fit.

Yes this was the story.. until the Kevin thing came along. Kevin's name can be cleared if we know that the hacker put in a bid for .01 on a second compromised account?

MagicalTux, to prove that Kevin is in on it, you must prove that  the hacker did not attempt to do this. Show us the bids below Kevin's that were not hit, and find out if those bids were put in my the legitimate user.  



You miss the point, the hacker didnt try to buy his own rundown BTC.. that was put in place to drive the market down, it was most likely the part of the btc roll he planned to "liquidate" into the market thus being able to withdraw the remaining ~100 k but failed horribly.

If kevin is involved in this, he could have possibly known the hacker or if he is in fact just someone who got gold of the account details to more easily place the sell and wait for the drop then place the buy at 0.01.

This is pure speculation but it does seem somewhat plausable.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

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June 21, 2011, 12:55:21 AM
 #137


Although the question remains, what was the motivation of the hacker to crash the market?

I can make an educated guess but dont take it as the absolute reason.

The hacker knew of the $1000 equiv maximum withdrawal daily limit and got access to a huge account (people arguing it may actually be mtgox aka the whole exchange account) and then proceeded to use half the funds to crash the market value down to 0.01 per BTC.

The hacker clearly didnt understand that the withdrawal is based on daily(or weekly, not 100% sure myself) weighted price thus when he crashed it down with half the BTC in the account he figured he would be able to withdraw the maximum of the remainder which would be 100 000 BTC except this failed miserably because the weighted price afaik were around $4.50 so he could withdraw a maximum of ~222 BTC.

This is my understanding as to why we are fortunate enough not to have lost 100 000 BTC with the crash withdrawal.

The interesting part however is that kevin seems to be the only person who gained a large purchase >260k BTC out of this which in itself makes it suspicious since thousands of traders were actively trading at that point and simply going with the "he was the lucky one" argument also doesnt fit.

Yes this was the story.. until the Kevin thing came along. Kevin's name can be cleared if we know that the hacker put in a bid for .01 on a second compromised account?

MagicalTux, to prove that Kevin is in on it, you must prove that  the hacker did not attempt to do this. Show us the bids below Kevin's that were not hit, and find out if those bids were put in my the legitimate user.  



Yes and it would help if he posted time stamps that matter: The time at which Kevin put his order in for 26k BTC @ 0.0101 and the time stamp where the hacker started the sell off. When they logged in is meaningless...
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June 21, 2011, 12:56:34 AM
 #138

Kevin had every right to do what he did, I know that 99% of you would jump at the opportunity if you executed the orders. Don't be jealous. We are all here for one thing to make money, stop pretending like your better than everyone else.
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June 21, 2011, 12:57:08 AM
 #139

Don't get the FBI involved. That is all bitcoin needs is the FBI looking through shit. Lets just move on and please make sure to keep your shit secure so this wont happen again.
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June 21, 2011, 12:57:21 AM
 #140

This is pure speculation but it does seem somewhat plausable.

but it is enough for a representative of an exchange handling millions of dollars to blame someone being the hacker?
very professional guys.
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