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Author Topic: I'm MtGox, here's my side.  (Read 33850 times)
kjj
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June 21, 2011, 01:45:09 AM
 #161

Wouldn't the correct approach to handling exchanges (ie FIFO orders) be to LOCK the table while an active order was being fulfilled?

If the hardware upon which the architecture was being run was sufficient enough, there wouldn't have been a chance for opportunistic bidders to buy @0.01 unless they had done so prior to the sell off. In lieu of that, a db level lock would honor the desired FIFO result. I would assume Mt Gox is set up this way and as such all attempts to place bids during the sell off would result in ~ "Another transaction is taking place." Again, assuming this is the case, this would invalidate Kevin (toasty)'s claim that he made a "lucky" bid in the midst of the sell off.

This is a bad idea, but it isn't obvious to people that haven't written or worked with large exchange markets.

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June 21, 2011, 01:45:30 AM
 #162

- If Kevin were the hacker, why not set a buy order first, then (hours or days later), put the stolen BTC up for sale?
- Were all 500,000 BTC really from the same account?
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June 21, 2011, 01:47:22 AM
 #163

So let me get this straight:

1. The market for Bitcoins on Mt. Gox crashed.
2. No explanation for this crash other than a "hacker did it" and our "auditors" had access to our site and somehow has a need for a DB of user/passwords. No mention of who the auditors for "privacy reasons" (which is a load of bullshit as no auditor-issuer relationship for any capital market transaction requires non-disclousure)
3. Failing to directly talk to the community on Bruce Wagner's interview and instead have an uninformed intermediary speak because "Mark's English is bad".
4. Coming on here, providing vague details ONLY after their hand is forced by "Kevin"
5. Threatening to rope in the FBI.

... and yet dozens of you are lining up to heap praise on "the professionalism" Mt. Gox is showing, offering reasons why they shouldn't be ridiculed for failing to provide the most basic security implementations, making excuses for why Mt. Gox isn't elaborating more on who's coins were stolen, and labeling anyone a troll who dares to point out the obvious incompetence of this company?

This sort of behavior is akin to that displayed by religious fundamentalists. And that's really what most of you are. Bitcoin is some sort of religion for you and Magical Tux is your fucking omniscient and untaintable prophet.

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June 21, 2011, 01:48:10 AM
 #164

Id like to see an independent third party investigation or arbitration. This whole episode stinks.




Edit: magical tux what gave you the right to hand over our personal details without permission to some untrustable third party without notifying us ? Who else have you given this data too?
jaybny
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June 21, 2011, 01:50:20 AM
 #165

Quote
placing all your money on $0.01 buy orders

this happens everyday if not every hour. its a simple strategy.. its actually a Flash Crash strategy.. its well known and used by many.. why not put a bid at .01 at all times.. just in case you are the lucky one?

So odds are that someone did this just before the Flash crash, especially if it was heavy trading hour. currency Wink

Its like telling the lottery winner, he must have cheated because it cant be just a "coincidence" that he picked all the correct numbers!

Sweft
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June 21, 2011, 01:52:38 AM
 #166

So let me get this straight:

1. The market for Bitcoins on Mt. Gox crashed.
2. No explanation for this crash other than a "hacker did it" and our "auditors" had access to our site and somehow has a need for a DB of user/passwords. No mention of who the auditors for "privacy reasons" (which is a load of bullshit as no auditor-issuer relationship for any capital market transaction requires non-disclousure)
3. Failing to directly talk to the community on Bruce Wagner's interview and instead have an uninformed intermediary speak because "Mark's English is bad".
4. Coming on here, providing vague details ONLY after their hand is forced by "Kevin"
5. Threatening to rope in the FBI.

... and yet dozens of you are lining up to heap praise on "the professionalism" Mt. Gox is showing, offering reasons why they shouldn't be ridiculed for failing to provide the most basic security implementations, making excuses for why Mt. Gox isn't elaborating more on who's coins were stolen, and labeling anyone a troll who dares to point out the obvious incompetence of this company?

This sort of behavior is akin to that displayed by religious fundamentalists. And that's really what most of you are. Bitcoin is some sort of religion for you and Magical Tux is your fucking omniscient and untaintable prophet.
I've given up on this community.  They show no ability to form rational judgments.  This situation is an example of the community's stupidity.  They trust some idiot in Japan that 1) had security exploits, 2) was most likely hacked, 3) offers no reasonable explanation for what happened, 4) posts confidential user information (time of user logins).

I seriously hope MtGox ends up in jail for this.  He deserves to be in jail for being incompetent and potentially losing millions of dollars.  This is fraudulent behavior and it should not be tolerated by the rule of law.  I hope to god he contacts the FBI, and wonder why he hasn't already.  Maybe because he's liable and scared shitless.

The idiots on this forum tolerating it are akin to religious fanatics, as you say.
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June 21, 2011, 01:53:50 AM
 #167

Quote
placing all your money on $0.01 buy orders

this happens everyday if not every hour. its a simple strategy.. its actually a Flash Crash strategy.. its well known and used by many.. why not put a bid at .01 at all times.. just in case you are the lucky one?

So odds are that someone did this just before the Flash crash, especially if it was heavy trading hour. currency Wink

Its like telling the lottery winner, he must have cheated because it cant be just a "coincidence" that he picked all the correct numbers!

Idiot.

You can't believe anything MtGox says.   ANYTHING.

GET THE FEDS INVOLVED.

That's honestly the only solution here.

Say bye bye to all your bitcoins.
jaybny
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June 21, 2011, 01:54:23 AM
 #168

So let me get this straight:

1. The market for Bitcoins on Mt. Gox crashed.
2. No explanation for this crash other than a "hacker did it" and our "auditors" had access to our site and somehow has a need for a DB of user/passwords. No mention of who the auditors for "privacy reasons" (which is a load of bullshit as no auditor-issuer relationship for any capital market transaction requires non-disclousure)
3. Failing to directly talk to the community on Bruce Wagner's interview and instead have an uninformed intermediary speak because "Mark's English is bad".
4. Coming on here, providing vague details ONLY after their hand is forced by "Kevin"
5. Threatening to rope in the FBI.

... and yet dozens of you are lining up to heap praise on "the professionalism" Mt. Gox is showing, offering reasons why they shouldn't be ridiculed for failing to provide the most basic security implementations, making excuses for why Mt. Gox isn't elaborating more on who's coins were stolen, and labeling anyone a troll who dares to point out the obvious incompetence of this company?

This sort of behavior is akin to that displayed by religious fundamentalists. And that's really what most of you are. Bitcoin is some sort of religion for you and Magical Tux is your fucking omniscient and untaintable prophet.

Its a French thing. nothing more. dont read into it.. its different culture and language.. giant miscommunication..

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June 21, 2011, 01:57:32 AM
 #169

MagicalTux, I wanted to support you in this matter, but I learned a couple of disturbing things in this "my side" thread. Do I have this right:

You gave an outside party access to your customer's private information?

And then you called in the FBI?

If it is true, that you divulged our information, and caused it to be spread across the internet, then you are a moron.

But if you called in the FBI as you say you did, then I take it all back. Nobody is that fucking stupid. You are a Judas goat.

Google it.

Well done sir, you didnt read the thread.

Other fktards commented and joked about bringing in the FBI.

MTGOX said he would report this to the proper authorities.

That is a huge difference.

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epii
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June 21, 2011, 01:57:56 AM
 #170

That's at least the third time you've posted that now.  Not that I think you have an agenda or anything.

While we're quoting our own posts:
It's a controversial incident and I don't claim to have all the facts, but for the sake of cutting through the FUD... it's actually only been three months since Mt. Gox commented on this:
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=3712.msg57901#msg57901
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=3712.msg62282#msg62282

The last comment was that they couldn't say anything more because it might go to trial.  This will be satisfactory for some people and not for others, but there is no clear evidence that they ever behaved unprofessionally.
To be precise, it´s exactly the third time I have posted this information, because I do believe it to be relevant to the current situation with MtGox and I usually don´t post all that much despite reading the forums for quite some time.

Whilst you provided an ad hominem attack, I am still waiting for your answer to my question: Is it going to be (another) 6 month till MtGox resolves&explains the current situation?
For a currency that has gone really mainstream over just about the last month, this does not quite seem to cut it.

I´d be really interested to hear your response, if you´re not to busy hyping MtGox.
I wasn't aware any question had been directed at me.  If one was, it probably shouldn't have been, because I don't have access to any more information than you do.  "Not that I think you have an agenda or anything," was admittedly a fairly immature way for me to say, "you obviously have an agenda."  That's fine though, so do I, although it is not "hyping Mt. Gox", but merely to do what little I can to counteract the misinformation and character assassination that seems to be spreading so rapidly with regard to all parties in this hacking matter.  Based on what I've seen of the behaviour of these parties, I do currently side with Mt. Gox, but that could change very quickly as the facts come out.

I was trying to point out in the post that I quoted that the question "Is it going to be (another) 6 month till MtGox resolves&explains the current situation?" is meaningless.  There is no sense in which Mt. Gox has been unresponsive for six months, so I don't know how you came up with that arbitrary figure.  If you are referring to the amount of time since the accusation you linked to was originally made against Mt. Gox, your apparent expectation that the matter should be entirely resolved by now is simply unreasonable.  Mt. Gox has issued many statements on the matter, the last of which said that it was likely going to court and for this reason could not divulge any more information.  Court proceedings take a long time.  What more could they have done by now to satisfy you?

Vires In Numeris.
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June 21, 2011, 02:00:54 AM
 #171

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GET THE FEDS INVOLVED.

It would be a fitting end to the libertarian currency called Bitcoin.


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June 21, 2011, 02:01:22 AM
 #172

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The idiots on this forum tolerating it are akin to religious fanatics, as you say.

bottom line is.. he delivered a high-liquid exchange for BCTs.. I've got BOTs trading 24/7 . us traders enjoy mtgox exchange and many are making lots of $ of newfags who think they know how to trade.

give us an alternative and we wont give a shit about mtgox. Mtgox is fundamentally flawed and will not survive in its curent form. but it the best we got for USDBTC liquidity.

liquidity bitches.... liquidity


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June 21, 2011, 02:04:07 AM
 #173

Kevin just got lucky, and everyone that was connected to the MtGox websocket stream has proof.

Here's what happened:
The hacker set an outrageous order for .01 at 17:15:38. At 17:51:16 Kevin's order, along with SEVERAL others, hit. That is because the hacker's order had finally exhausted all the amounts at one cent and greater, prompting the typical "your entire order can't be filled at this price" prompt for the hacker.

And yes, it took 35 minutes to process one order.

Maria
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June 21, 2011, 02:06:19 AM
 #174

MT GOX. You have 4K BTC and 4K USD of my money hostage. I dont like it when people fuck with my money. Stop playing and open up the exchange site.

Maria
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June 21, 2011, 02:12:10 AM
 #175


I think you guys owe us all at least a redacted version of what the hell actually happened.

Do you think that you could wait until they have had a chance to figure it out?

Another 6 months?

Does anyone still remember how MtGox handled the last situation where there was a large amount at stake for MtGox?

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=3712.0

That guy explained himself, was hounded by the community, MtGox barely bothered to respond, made some outlandish claims, froze funds and rapidly moved the whole operation to a different jurisdiction (Japan) after the guy finaly decided to get lawyers involved.

MtGox promised to inform the community! No news yet, and it´s been 6 months!
That's at least the third time you've posted that now.  Not that I think you have an agenda or anything.

While we're quoting our own posts:
It's a controversial incident and I don't claim to have all the facts, but for the sake of cutting through the FUD... it's actually only been three months since Mt. Gox commented on this:
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=3712.msg57901#msg57901
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=3712.msg62282#msg62282

The last comment was that they couldn't say anything more because it might go to trial.  This will be satisfactory for some people and not for others, but there is no clear evidence that they ever behaved unprofessionally.


To be precise, it´s exactly the third time I have posted this information, because I do believe it to be relevant to the current situation with MtGox and I usually don´t post all that much despite reading the forums for quite some time.

Whilst you provided an ad hominem attack, I am still waiting for your answer to my question: Is it going to be (another) 6 month till MtGox resolves&explains the current situation?
For a currency that has gone really mainstream over just about the last month, this does not quite seem to cut it.

I´d be really interested to hear your response, if you´re not to busy hyping MtGox.
I wasn't aware any question had been directed at me.  If one was, it probably shouldn't have been, because I don't have access to any more information than you do.  "Not that I think you have an agenda or anything," was admittedly a fairly immature way for me to say, "you obviously have an agenda."  That's fine though, so do I, although it is not "hyping Mt. Gox", but merely to do what little I can to counteract the misinformation and character assassination that seems to be spreading so rapidly with regard to all parties in this hacking matter.  Based on what I've seen of the behaviour of these parties, I do currently side with Mt. Gox, but that could change very quickly as the facts come out.

I was trying to point out in the post that I quoted that the question "Is it going to be (another) 6 month till MtGox resolves&explains the current situation?" is meaningless.  There is no sense in which Mt. Gox has been unresponsive for six months, so I don't know how you came up with that arbitrary figure.  If you are referring to the amount of time since the accusation you linked to was originally made against Mt. Gox, your apparent expectation that the matter should be entirely resolved by now is simply unreasonable.  Mt. Gox has issued many statements on the matter, the last of which said that it was likely going to court and for this reason could not divulge any more information.  Court proceedings take a long time.  What more could they have done by now to satisfy you?

Get a room!

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June 21, 2011, 02:12:26 AM
 #176

Something's happening, Mt. Gox just reappeared on bitcoincharts.com, but it's still not possible to log in...

Vires In Numeris.
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June 21, 2011, 02:13:36 AM
 #177

@jaybny  Sorry, that is a bit of a quotepuke, isn't it?  I'll trim that down...

Don't want to derail the thread any worse than it already has been.

Vires In Numeris.
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June 21, 2011, 02:14:31 AM
 #178



Quote
The idiots on this forum tolerating it are akin to religious fanatics, as you say.

bottom line is.. he delivered a high-liquid exchange for BCTs.. I've got BOTs trading 24/7 . us traders enjoy mtgox exchange and many are making lots of $ of newfags who think they know how to trade.

give us an alternative and we wont give a shit about mtgox. Mtgox is fundamentally flawed and will not survive in its curent form. but it the best we got for USDBTC liquidity.

liquidity bitches.... liquidity


If you knew how to trade you wouldn't be trading bitcoins, religious fanatic.

Grow a brain.
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June 21, 2011, 02:15:58 AM
 #179

Sorry but this thread is just dumb.

A major attraction (you know, one of the things that gives it value) of BitCoin is that it (can be) anonymous and without centralized authority.

The second that one market is caught with its pants down and arse hanging out, hordes of people want to run to the FBI? What is wrong with you? Indeed, is MtGox bound by its ToS to not pass on information?

For those wanting an indepentent enquiry, etc. I see your point but am afraid that this is the price BTC pays for having no central authority. MtGox has carte blanche to do what it likes - you gave it your money.


Fortunately, there is a solution... For everyone!

If you are a MtGox fanboi, go and put your money there (if/when it returns).

If you are a paranoid cynic, don't put your money there.


Personally, I think that this is a fantastic wake-up call for us all to actually and carefully consider where we put our money. I am new to this community and do not wish to tread on any toes.

One brilliant aspect of bitcoin is that it has inspired people to try to create their own businesses and empires. Hopefully this whole episode will better focus that passion into more considered, diligent and professional business practices and ethics.

Ultimately, it appears that all of us each share part of the decisions which will ultimately result in many startups failing and the deserving ones succeeding.


BB.
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June 21, 2011, 02:18:59 AM
 #180

The valuable posts in this thread occurred in the first three pages, the quality of posts have declined since.  I'm locking this thread.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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