[ANN] Elacoin | Released | Fair Elastic Scrypt Mining | No Premine

[mat5x]

Not much to read about TRC (terracoin) - it had a 2 min block (sha256) with a 30 block retarg window, retargetting EVERY block. This made bigrig farms jump in and out constantly, messing the difficulty (way up to 300 or 600k or even 1M), then dropping it on the floor again. Insanity ruled. So they changed the averaging to a sliding 24 hr window about 1.5 months ago, still hasnt helped -
people still pump the difficulty up , then drop it.

Not sure that's bad, it's been the most interesting coin i think in terms of behaviour. THre are opportunities for those who know how to read hashing rates and xchg rates but its not as simple as jumping in with diff is low (unless you have a big rig and can shut out other legit miners with orphan chains, then you get a reward bigger than your actual contribution- course, the whole
TRC market is dominated by one 80% hashrate pool which does this naturally at all times- coinotron. Luckily, he's mostly benign.)

Funny thing is, TRC doesnt HAVE to be this way, there's nothing in the protocol that suggests that this should continue happening, I think its a hangover from historical abuses, and people just havent detuned their scripts to stay off TRC. It has NOT stabilized at any particular difficulty.

Im not sure we should avoid emulating it specifically, but Im not sure we should have a fluctuating difficulty either.

At any rate, with Elacoin it doesnt matter since the proportionality of reward to difficulty ensures that however many hashes you put in, you get rewarded. This suggests that the value of the coin is contingent on MINING it instead of HOLDING it, which is an interesting idea, like the derivative (calculus we're talking here) of other coins' values (bitcoins value is increased by holding it longer due to deflation). So I have no idea what will happen.

Almost doesnt matter, because none of these currencies operate with much friction at all - there's exchanges for every coin into every other now for minimal fees. So it's all fungible and all coins are equivalent to eachother with some fluctuating constant C = exchange rate. The only difference will be how their practicality in the world expresses itself. WDC is ridiculous - 4 block confirmation? How about just orphan chain attacking any transaction you dont like with a bigrig that you isolate til it has its 4 blocks to slam into the network? Derp derp!

Orphan chain attacks are interesting. seems something should be done about them. this isnt the thread for that as elacoin never purported to do that.

question is - do we increase difficulty to parity (1:1, diff 4 = 4 elc?) or do we make it diff 4 = 1 coin like it almost is now? Holders ofthe coin will be disadvantaged by the former, but its better than having no value in the coins we hold I guess.

What do you people think?

[barwizi]

since noone is trying to, i'll change it. I am increasing block reward to
int64 nSubsidy = ((25 + (diff / 24)) * COIN) / (1 + (nHeight / 194400)); // 25 ELC per block

from

int64 nSubsidy = ((1 + (diff / 24)) * COIN) / (1 + (nHeight / 194400));


and retarget to

static const int64 nTargetTimespan = 1 * 1 * 60 * 60; // Elacoin: 1 hour
static const int64 nTargetSpacing = 2 * 60; // Elacoin: 2 minutes
static const int64 nInterval = nTargetTimespan / nTargetSpacing;

from

static const int64 nTargetTimespan = 3 * 24 * 60 * 60; // Elacoin: 3 days
static const int64 nTargetSpacing = 2 * 60; // Elacoin: 2.5 minutes
static const int64 nInterval = nTargetTimespan / nTargetSpacing;

any ideas of anything else i should change? Any objections?
i've been studying the code and i think i've got the idea

if i get 10 votes up i will do this, the overall net hash rate is 3.5mh/s and if we don't do this quick, this coin will die. Votes please

edit, ten votes coz i can only see 4 people mining @ the pool.

[collapse]

if i get 10 votes up i will do this, the overall net hash rate is 3.5mh/s and if we don't do this quick, this coin will die. Votes please

Last Active:    25-05-2013, 09:41:53
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=81730

I think that rules can not changed without developer,...,
Similar thing (fast retarget) could happen with Chncoin, and other coins under "miners attack", but, Anyone knows if miners, exchanges,... will use the forked client? What about blockchain?, if not.

[xchrix]

elacoin charts now on cryptocoincharts.info

[barwizi]

if i get 10 votes up i will do this, the overall net hash rate is 3.5mh/s and if we don't do this quick, this coin will die. Votes please

Last Active:    25-05-2013, 09:41:53
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=81730

I think that rules can not changed without developer,...,
Similar thing (fast retarget) could happen with Chncoin, and other coins under "miners attack", but, Anyone knows if miners, exchanges,... will use the forked client? What about blockchain?, if not.

uhh, if the dev disappears the community can continue, we dont need him. as for being attacked, this coin has only 2.5 mh/s left, jus pointing one rig at it, i can force a fork. what we need to do is encourage people to download the updated client then start mining, the chain is the same, only updated parameters. your balances are saved if you back up your wallet.dat


anyone with coding skills can change it, it's just up to the community to choose who's changes the will follow.

[mat5x]

uhh, if the dev disappears the community can continue, we dont need him. as for being attacked, this coin has only 2.5 mh/s left, jus pointing one rig at it, i can force a fork. what we need to do is encourage people to download the updated client then start mining, the chain is the same, only updated parameters. your balances are saved if you back up your wallet.dat


anyone with coding skills can change it, it's just up to the community to choose who's changes the will follow.

right so the hard part has been community building. i dont see you in #elacoin.

and I have collected about 20MH/s worth of peopel who are willing to work on this. and sure, you can fork any coin anytime you wanna throw huge hashes at it. early coins are vuln at low diffs of course but that goes for every single coin out there. I dont see a way to work around this easily.

At least it's activity in the coin. And watching TRC you cant just make the retarg more frequent or people will abuse it as continues on TRC to this day (tho as I say, I dont know if this is abuse or a feature of the coin now)

We're close to being ready, got a testnet going here going to get some testers on it.

[barwizi]

that's great, when can we expect a release?

[nonameo]

Probably as soon as we get elacoin-qt to build for windows, which I just managed but without upnp support. I'm having trouble testing it though because my wallet(not the one I compiled) is having trouble syncing...(IOW, my built wallet won't sync but neither will my downloaded wallet, it connects to peers but gets stuck on n blocks)

[barwizi]

Probably as soon as we get elacoin-qt to build for windows, which I just managed but without upnp support. I'm having trouble testing it though because my wallet(not the one I compiled) is having trouble syncing...(IOW, my built wallet won't sync but neither will my downloaded wallet, it connects to peers but gets stuck on n blocks)

that is due to the low hash rate and very few (if any) nodes.

[mat5x]

Probably as soon as we get elacoin-qt to build for windows, which I just managed but without upnp support. I'm having trouble testing it though because my wallet(not the one I compiled) is having trouble syncing...(IOW, my built wallet won't sync but neither will my downloaded wallet, it connects to peers but gets stuck on n blocks)

that is due to the low hash rate and very few (if any) nodes.

why does that slow down block updates on the chain for a client that's behind?

[barwizi]

Probably as soon as we get elacoin-qt to build for windows, which I just managed but without upnp support. I'm having trouble testing it though because my wallet(not the one I compiled) is having trouble syncing...(IOW, my built wallet won't sync but neither will my downloaded wallet, it connects to peers but gets stuck on n blocks)

that is due to the low hash rate and very few (if any) nodes.

why does that slow down block updates on the chain for a client that's behind?

really have no idea how but i've noticed that if you cant get a stable connection when you start up the client, it wont sync

[WindMaster]

since noone is trying to, i'll change it. I am increasing block reward to
int64 nSubsidy = ((25 + (diff / 24)) * COIN) / (1 + (nHeight / 194400)); // 25 ELC per block

from

int64 nSubsidy = ((1 + (diff / 24)) * COIN) / (1 + (nHeight / 194400));

What is the reasoning behind changing the block reward?

[BrewCrewFan]

since noone is trying to, i'll change it. I am increasing block reward to
int64 nSubsidy = ((25 + (diff / 24)) * COIN) / (1 + (nHeight / 194400)); // 25 ELC per block

from

int64 nSubsidy = ((1 + (diff / 24)) * COIN) / (1 + (nHeight / 194400));

What is the reasoning behind changing the block reward?

gain a little more interest. Plus keep it somewhat intresting for those that stick around after the bots come though and rape the shit out of the coin and move on once the difficulty gets too high

[WindMaster]

since noone is trying to, i'll change it. I am increasing block reward to
int64 nSubsidy = ((25 + (diff / 24)) * COIN) / (1 + (nHeight / 194400)); // 25 ELC per block

from

int64 nSubsidy = ((1 + (diff / 24)) * COIN) / (1 + (nHeight / 194400));

What is the reasoning behind changing the block reward?

gain a little more interest. Plus keep it somewhat intresting for those that stick around after the bots come though and rape the shit out of the coin and move on once the difficulty gets too high

By that reasoning, why not make it the following?
int64 nSubsidy = ((250 + (diff / 24)) * COIN) / (1 + (nHeight / 194400)); // 250 ELC per block

Unless anyone can explain why changing the block reward from 1 to 25 is good while changing it to 250 is bad?  How about 2500?  25000, perhaps?  If there is no concern at all for the value of coins mined by participants in the Elacoin community prior to your proposed change, then is the actual magnitude of the change of any concern?

Note - I still feel, as I stated earlier in the thread, that this is a case of miners voting to increase their own rewards at the expense of anyone that mined ELC prior to that point (and that includes me).  And by "voting", it appears that actually means "enforced by 51% attack against anyone that doesn't go along with the plan and switch to this new version of the client" if I read back just a few posts.

[BrewCrewFan]

since noone is trying to, i'll change it. I am increasing block reward to
int64 nSubsidy = ((25 + (diff / 24)) * COIN) / (1 + (nHeight / 194400)); // 25 ELC per block

from

int64 nSubsidy = ((1 + (diff / 24)) * COIN) / (1 + (nHeight / 194400));

What is the reasoning behind changing the block reward?

gain a little more interest. Plus keep it somewhat intresting for those that stick around after the bots come though and rape the shit out of the coin and move on once the difficulty gets too high

By that reasoning, why not make it the following?
int64 nSubsidy = ((250 + (diff / 24)) * COIN) / (1 + (nHeight / 194400)); // 250 ELC per block

Unless anyone can explain why changing the block reward from 1 to 25 is good while changing it to 250 is bad?  How about 2500?  25000, perhaps?  If there is no concern at all for the value of coins mined by participants in the Elacoin community prior to your proposed change, then is the actual magnitude of the change of any concern?

Note - I still feel, as I stated earlier in the thread, that this is a case of miners voting to increase their own rewards at the expense of anyone that mined ELC prior to that point (and that includes me).  And by "voting", it appears that actually means "enforced by 51% attack against anyone that doesn't go along with the plan and switch to this new version of the client" if I read back just a few posts.

The goal is to give reward but not too much because the coin launched with what... 1 coin  per block. so if you do the bigger number... it really kills the value of current coins.

[WindMaster]

The goal is to give reward but not too much because the coin launched with what... 1 coin  per block. so if you do the bigger number... it really kills the value of current coins.

Changing the block reward to 25x higher than it was when all ELC mined so far were minted, somehow preserves the value of current coins?  I fail to see the logic, particularly as a holder of a fair quantity of ELC.

Personally, if a proposal is fielded that proposes to make my ELC worth about 4% of the current value, I would tend to consider that "killing the value of current coins."

[BrewCrewFan]

The goal is to give reward but not too much because the coin launched with what... 1 coin  per block. so if you do the bigger number... it really kills the value of current coins.

Changing the block reward to 25x higher than it was when all ELC mined so far were minted, somehow preserves the value of current coins?  I fail to see the logic, particularly as a holder of a fair quantity of ELC.

Personally, if a proposal is fielded that proposes to make my ELC worth about 4% of the current value, I would tend to consider that "killing the value of current coins."

The problem is, something has to happen to the coin or its dead seeing how there are other viable options out there.
This is IMO.

[collapse]

Any news about hard fork?

[WindMaster]

Any news about hard fork?

And the actual modified source code for review prior to being implemented?

[nonameo]

I'll tell them that you guys want to see the source first. How much time do you think would be good?

However, as soon as the source goes out, anyone can compile and run it. It's as good as released. Actually, anyone can release any code they like whenever they want as long as they have enough hash power on board(not hard to do with the current state of things >_<)

Changes: I don't think we've settled on anything in particular. we've discussed things, I don't think any of us agree on multiplying the reward 50x or 25x(or anything close). mat5x has smoothed out the 9 month divider so it doesn't happen all at once. TBH the code is not that hard to pump out. It's deciding what to do and then doing it. I've been trying to get the windows QT client to compile(done), but I'm not particularly sure what the others have been up to. Mat5x has been working on the source,  another guy(don't know his name on the forum) has been doing some testing. Really, we need people to mine the coin. So transactions will move. So people will use it Some sort of marketplace would be nice too.

You can come into #elacoin on freenode if you want to chat. That's where we've been doing all of our discussing.