I am against Bitcoin Cash and here is why

[BrewMaster]

My opposition is not because they are trying to hard fork
not because they are trying to increase the block size to 8 MB and open up many attack vectors.
not because they are effectively centralizing bitcoin.
not because they have the biggest scammer as their speaker.
not because they have been attacking bitcoin and trying to take over for more than 3 years.
...
these are all minor reasons.

the main reason that i am against bitcoinCash is because they are going against the majority. we voted, the nodes, the miners, the businesses, ... and got the majority on the current chain that you see and is called bitcoin.
but you could not accept and did not respect the majority's opinion and still insist on your minority hard fork.

and the worst part is you are going against "satoshi's vision", the very thing you pretend to support. which is a decentralized system that works based on consensus of the majority not what some small group of people want.

and here is a question for you:
you say your proposal is the best, you claim to be the satoshi's vision, and lots more. so why don't you make something from scratch? call it Satoshi's Vistion Coin or SVC for short.

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[spadormie]

My opposition is not because they are trying to hard fork
not because they are trying to increase the block size to 8 MB and open up many attack vectors.
not because they are effectively centralizing bitcoin.
not because they have the biggest scammer as their speaker.
not because they have been attacking bitcoin and trying to take over for more than 3 years.
...
these are all minor reasons.

the main reason that i am against bitcoinCash is because they are going against the majority. we voted, the nodes, the miners, the businesses, ... and got the majority on the current chain that you see and is called bitcoin.
but you could not accept and did not respect the majority's opinion and still insist on your minority hard fork.

and the worst part is you are going against "satoshi's vision", the very thing you pretend to support. which is a decentralized system that works based on consensus of the majority not what some small group of people want.

and here is a question for you:
you say your proposal is the best, you claim to be the satoshi's vision, and lots more. so why don't you make something from scratch? call it Satoshi's Vistion Coin or SVC for short.

For me, I think that it is the perfect time for Nakamoto to show up to the world. And tell us that he is against this BCC, it is against on his work the bitcoin. Why they want to have a hard fork when they can refer to the original? The bitcoin. I am also against this actually. Our coins might be at high risk rather than bitcoin.

[davis196]

Why don`t Bitcoin Cash suporters create a brand new altcoin.(Somehting from scratch,like the OP said.)
They are using the name of Bitcoin to manipulate the newbies, who are not familiar with soft/hard forks.
Using the name "Bitcoin" gains some aditional level of trust,which they don`t deserve.
Bitcoin Cash should be renamed to something different-Baitcoin,Betcoin or Batcoin...i don`t know.

[davidmccoy]

This BBC has created a divide among the people who supported the cryptocurrency for a very long time. I hope average traders will not suffer much with the change.

[davidmccoy]

Why don`t Bitcoin Cash suporters create a brand new altcoin.(Somehting from scratch,like the OP said.)
They are using the name of Bitcoin to manipulate the newbies, who are not familiar with soft/hard forks.
Using the name "Bitcoin" gains some aditional level of trust,which they don`t deserve.
Bitcoin Cash should be renamed to something different-Baitcoin,Betcoin or Batcoin...i don`t know.

Baitcoin is perfect  Should not be a bait though.

[Justaguy2]

This post is worth reading if you have any doubt that bcc is a fraud.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2050936.0

[peter0425]

My opposition is not because they are trying to hard fork
not because they are trying to increase the block size to 8 MB and open up many attack vectors.
not because they are effectively centralizing bitcoin.
not because they have the biggest scammer as their speaker.
not because they have been attacking bitcoin and trying to take over for more than 3 years.
...
these are all minor reasons.

the main reason that i am against bitcoinCash is because they are going against the majority. we voted, the nodes, the miners, the businesses, ... and got the majority on the current chain that you see and is called bitcoin.
but you could not accept and did not respect the majority's opinion and still insist on your minority hard fork.

and the worst part is you are going against "satoshi's vision", the very thing you pretend to support. which is a decentralized system that works based on consensus of the majority not what some small group of people want.

and here is a question for you:
you say your proposal is the best, you claim to be the satoshi's vision, and lots more. so why don't you make something from scratch? call it Satoshi's Vistion Coin or SVC for short.

Exactly. Majority of us here are against it and for sure that this altcoin won't survive or would be irrelevant in the future. They just want to disrupt and cause commotion in the market and I think they will not succeed because its plain and simple: They are all greedy and just want to gain profit out of bitcoin's name. I hope that newbies will not fall for this and realize that this is a trap so better exit early and stick with bitcoin only.

[JohnMacaron]

What are u talking about at all? Who needs bitcoin if u need to wait hours on end for confirmation< there'll be no idiots to wait in coffeeshop till morning while your artificially congested like bloody toilet pipe network will spit off something. Bitcoin is dying and segwit is compared to sticking leeches to dying kranke, while he agonizing his last hours.

[delpiero10]

bcc will be meaningless altcoin, don't waste time on it 

[krishnapramod]

My opposition is not because they are trying to hard fork
not because they are trying to increase the block size to 8 MB and open up many attack vectors.
not because they are effectively centralizing bitcoin.
not because they have the biggest scammer as their speaker.
not because they have been attacking bitcoin and trying to take over for more than 3 years.
...
these are all minor reasons.

the main reason that i am against bitcoinCash is because they are going against the majority. we voted, the nodes, the miners, the businesses, ... and got the majority on the current chain that you see and is called bitcoin.
but you could not accept and did not respect the majority's opinion and still insist on your minority hard fork.

and the worst part is you are going against "satoshi's vision", the very thing you pretend to support. which is a decentralized system that works based on consensus of the majority not what some small group of people want.

and here is a question for you:
you say your proposal is the best, you claim to be the satoshi's vision, and lots more. so why don't you make something from scratch? call it Satoshi's Vistion Coin or SVC for short.

1. The current Bitcoin protocol is Satoshi's vision and an increase in blocksize isn't against Satoshi's vision, but the question is, is it necessary at this point in time.

2. Decentralization is being dragged into this whole scaling debate. On chain and off chain solutions. Segwit with side implementations (LN) gives a choice to users to choose how they want to process their transactions, no miner manipulation, if using exchanges is centralized, yeah then payment channels can be termed a centralized approach, just perception and it comes down to trust, still channels aren't capable enough to run away with your coins.

3. Don't bother explaininng how miners manipulate fees, incentivized spamming isn't no fluke. Bigger blocks leads to high fees, and then include the spamming. It is definitely costly, but when the spamming is controlled by a definite source or bigger pools (let's drag the centralized mining equipment manufacturer into it, Bitmain) then it is worth the spam to get twice the amount in transaction fees. Centralized mining.

4. I had mentioned in one of my last posts there is majority, super majority, economic majority and consensus, let the miners and the manufacturer be centralized and centered on their own profits, let the nodes decide.

5. Segwit2x is the apt option, gives both users and big blockers a choice, users don't have to process their transactions according to the rules set by centralized miners, and there is on chain transactions who prefer that.

6. BCC is a demo. If the majority supports for a hard fork in November, let be it, if not, the non-majority has the option to fork-off the network. There is no logic in comparing miners have heavily invested into mining, so what the Bitcoin users are doing?

[olushakes]

The issue about this BCC is that irrespective of our position, the possibility it going to happen is high and to the best of my knowledge, its not compulsory to use it and even major exchange sites have equally come out with their concerns. What I will say is, let just wait and see as the community  will be the determinant of whether it will be successful or futile and not individuals. Its just few days left.

[BrewMaster]

What are u talking about at all? Who needs bitcoin if u need to wait hours on end for confirmation< there'll be no idiots to wait in coffeeshop till morning while your artificially congested like bloody toilet pipe network will spit off something. Bitcoin is dying and segwit is compared to sticking leeches to dying kranke, while he agonizing his last hours.

did you even bother to read what i said, or are you just too desperate that you felt the need to create a new throwaway account to spread bullshit here.

let me rephrase it for you:
you say bitcoin is shit and has a lot of problems. you are only 1 person. you are going against millions of people, aka the majority and you are forking off just because you can and have a small amount of hashrate.

and that still doesn't explain why you don't make something from scratch like the rest of normal human beings.

ps. love to see how your 8MB blocks are going to last under a severe spam attack for 3 years. although i doubt any spam attack happens there because of two things: not enough incentive + those who support BCC were the spammers themselves...

[JohnMacaron]

Good points u've made here. Thank God we don't have any problems right now in our happy bitcoin kingdom. That's not like without any Ddos attacks we losing half of normal users who use bitcoin for their everyday purchases, right?  It's not like only people who use bitcoin network right now are speculators and miners who process money from wallet to wallet in endless circle jerk without any actual implementation of Satoshi's ideas in real life. Bitcoin is dying, people defecting, we need drastic change or blown up price will go down the pipe anyway.

[BrewMaster]

Good points u've made here. Thank God we don't have any problems right now in our happy bitcoin realm. That's not like without any Ddos attacks we losing half of normal users who use bitcoin for their everyday purchases, right?  It's not like only people who use bitcoin network right now are speculators and miners who process money from wallet to wallet in endless circle jerk without any actual implementation of Satoshi's ideas in real life. Bitcoin is dying, people defecting, we need drastic change or blown up price will go down the pipe anyway.

let me give you an example so maybe you understand your idiotic ways:
US presidential election was last year. Trump won based on majority support. many are not happy about it.
what you do is like 100 Americans deciding they don't want Trump, they want Mr. X as their president. They go build a new building beside White House and put Mr. X in it and start telling 323.1 million - 100 people that fuck you for being the majority and accepting Trump, this guy that we few support is the "American Vision".

[Casdinyard]

bcc will be meaningless altcoin, don't waste time on it  

Bcc should be consider altcoin not some shadow of btc. This thing should never be introduce in the market or if so, list it to alt coin. And I agree with OP that whats the use of voting when it just became a front act? Like the votes of the majority becomes useless when what they plan should be use and follow. It's sucks really.

[JohnMacaron]

My ways are righteous, i think about securing bitcoin positions to implement it in all aspects of our life in future. Right now people are abandoning this sinking shit, like rats.  1Mb block size is NOT acceptable in current state of things! And small-minded menschen like yourself obviously don't want bitcoin network to be thriving, so their making from it their milking cow and instead of going big their maliciously congesting bloodvessels of ecosystem to suck on sweet fees. DISGUSTING!

[rudystyle]

Good points u've made here. Thank God we don't have any problems right now in our happy bitcoin realm. That's not like without any Ddos attacks we losing half of normal users who use bitcoin for their everyday purchases, right?  It's not like only people who use bitcoin network right now are speculators and miners who process money from wallet to wallet in endless circle jerk without any actual implementation of Satoshi's ideas in real life. Bitcoin is dying, people defecting, we need drastic change or blown up price will go down the pipe anyway.

let me give you an example so maybe you understand your idiotic ways:
US presidential election was last year. Trump won based on majority support. many are not happy about it.
what you do is like 100 Americans deciding they don't want Trump, they want Mr. X as their president. They go build a new building beside White House and put Mr. X in it and start telling 323.1 million - 100 people that fuck you for being the majority and accepting Trump, this guy that we few support is the "American Vision".

lol good example

[danherbias07]

Bitcoin Unlimited tried it and now Bitcoin Cash.
It seems like they are loving to use the name for a different purpose.
A high popularity bitcoin is being tried to be cloned and yet no one succeeded.
This will just have the same faith as how the BU ends up.
Trying to somehow pull some users is a good strategy. But they will be back.

[talkbitcoin]

these Cash supporters are not only insulting everyone involved with bitcoin but also they are abusing the name or brand of bitcoin with their fork. and that is the answer to your question. because they want to abuse bitcoin's name otherwise it is obvious that the best course of action would have been to start a new chain from zero.

[Cult]

My opposition is not because they are trying to hard fork
not because they are trying to increase the block size to 8 MB and open up many attack vectors.
not because they are effectively centralizing bitcoin.
not because they have the biggest scammer as their speaker.
not because they have been attacking bitcoin and trying to take over for more than 3 years.
...
these are all minor reasons.

the main reason that i am against bitcoinCash is because they are going against the majority. we voted, the nodes, the miners, the businesses, ... and got the majority on the current chain that you see and is called bitcoin.
but you could not accept and did not respect the majority's opinion and still insist on your minority hard fork.

and the worst part is you are going against "satoshi's vision", the very thing you pretend to support. which is a decentralized system that works based on consensus of the majority not what some small group of people want.

and here is a question for you:
you say your proposal is the best, you claim to be the satoshi's vision, and lots more. so why don't you make something from scratch? call it Satoshi's Vistion Coin or SVC for short.

And we are going to vote again, this time by dumping their coin and buying bitcoin.

If they want to give us free money, that's fine, but there may be no one to dump on...

[dothebeats]

I'm not a BCC supporter and don't promote them in any way, but does that mean that even if a majority rules something decentralized, the minority couldn't present their own ideas and let the community decide? I know, it's just a stripped-down implementation with much of its code being copied from SegWit, but what they're exercising is voicing out their opinions and plans in re: scaling issue for bitcoin.

But seriously, why go for BCC unless you have other agenda in mind?

[Xavofat]

What are u talking about at all? Who needs bitcoin if u need to wait hours on end for confirmation< there'll be no idiots to wait in coffeeshop till morning while your artificially congested like bloody toilet pipe network will spit off something. Bitcoin is dying and segwit is compared to sticking leeches to dying kranke, while he agonizing his last hours.

and that still doesn't explain why you don't make something from scratch like the rest of normal human beings.

It's quite clear why they're not starting from scratch.  It's because they want all Bitcoin holders to automatically have the opportunity to use their new coin if they want to spend with larger blocks.

I don't even think they'll succeed, but having that opportunity is not a problem.  It's not comparable to Presidents because BTC is not a government, it's the people, and people do not all do the same thing regardless of what you would like them to do.

Did you make the same complaint about UASF?

those who support BCC were the spammers themselves...

There's no evidence or reasoning behind this at all.  Tinfoil hat level stuff.

[iamTom123]

Why don`t Bitcoin Cash suporters create a brand new altcoin.(Somehting from scratch,like the OP said.)
They are using the name of Bitcoin to manipulate the newbies, who are not familiar with soft/hard forks.
Using the name "Bitcoin" gains some additional level of trust,which they don`t deserve.
Bitcoin Cash should be renamed to something different-Baitcoin,Betcoin or Batcoin...i don`t know.

It is becoming a big shame that a group of people prefer to create some havoc on Bitcoin and the Bitcoin community simply because they do not fully agree with the decision of the majority. No wonder many people are calling this as an attack -- an attack against the real Bitcoin and the small BTC holders we have around.

And they are even appropriating the name Bitcoin to their altcoin which can debut into the market soon. I am personally supporting Bitcoincash. It  would take a lot of convincing before I would go for BitcoinCash.

[Ekanenf]

My opposition is not because they are trying to hard fork
not because they are trying to increase the block size to 8 MB and open up many attack vectors.
not because they are effectively centralizing bitcoin.
not because they have the biggest scammer as their speaker.
not because they have been attacking bitcoin and trying to take over for more than 3 years.
...
these are all minor reasons.

the main reason that i am against bitcoinCash is because they are going against the majority. we voted, the nodes, the miners, the businesses, ... and got the majority on the current chain that you see and is called bitcoin.
but you could not accept and did not respect the majority's opinion and still insist on your minority hard fork.

and the worst part is you are going against "satoshi's vision", the very thing you pretend to support. which is a decentralized system that works based on consensus of the majority not what some small group of people want.

and here is a question for you:
you say your proposal is the best, you claim to be the satoshi's vision, and lots more. so why don't you make something from scratch? call it Satoshi's Vistion Coin or SVC for short.

For me, I think that it is the perfect time for Nakamoto to show up to the world. And tell us that he is against this BCC, it is against on his work the bitcoin. Why they want to have a hard fork when they can refer to the original? The bitcoin. I am also against this actually. Our coins might be at high risk rather than bitcoin.

It is true that this is against Satoshi's reason why he made bitcoin. I don't know why they are keep on insisting this BCC thingy while bitcoin is perfectly working fine and it is better the way it is right now. There is no need for this kind of addition to bitcoin, we are contented that bitcoin is decentralized and don't have this BCC stuff.

[hv_]

Maybe YOU guys don't need it, because YOU are rich compared to the poor billions living mostly in Asia.

They just cannot affort the tx fees.

SW will not help, at least not in a sudden and not really much.

2x will help quickly, but only if done quickly...eh?


So what the hack is your advice for the poor?

Pls not: use other scamcoins...


They take it in their own hands


So you see, not allowing on-chain scaling is really selfish and driven by some rich 'users'....eh?

[iram1011]

My opposition is not because they are trying to hard fork
not because they are trying to increase the block size to 8 MB and open up many attack vectors.
not because they are effectively centralizing bitcoin.
not because they have the biggest scammer as their speaker.
not because they have been attacking bitcoin and trying to take over for more than 3 years.
...
these are all minor reasons.

the main reason that i am against bitcoinCash is because they are going against the majority. we voted, the nodes, the miners, the businesses, ... and got the majority on the current chain that you see and is called bitcoin.
but you could not accept and did not respect the majority's opinion and still insist on your minority hard fork.

and the worst part is you are going against "satoshi's vision", the very thing you pretend to support. which is a decentralized system that works based on consensus of the majority not what some small group of people want.

and here is a question for you:
you say your proposal is the best, you claim to be the satoshi's vision, and lots more. so why don't you make something from scratch? call it Satoshi's Vistion Coin or SVC for short.

So does the most of the community. BCC is most probably be dumped after 1st August. The fork wasn't needed anytime soon specially when the majority was happily supporting Segwit.

[feranenem12345]

1. The current Bitcoin protocol is Satoshi's vision and an increase in blocksize isn't against Satoshi's vision, but the question is, is it necessary at this point in time.

Prove.

[BrewMaster]

Maybe YOU guys don't need it, because YOU are rich compared to the poor billions living mostly in Asia.

i am going to give the same answer i gave to that throwaway account:
did you even read the topic! i doubt it.

and just FYI, i live in a third world country and compared to those imaginary Asians in your head is much poorer

[naughty1]

My opposition is not because they are trying to hard fork
not because they are trying to increase the block size to 8 MB and open up many attack vectors.
not because they are effectively centralizing bitcoin.
not because they have the biggest scammer as their speaker.
not because they have been attacking bitcoin and trying to take over for more than 3 years.
...
these are all minor reasons.

the main reason that i am against bitcoinCash is because they are going against the majority. we voted, the nodes, the miners, the businesses, ... and got the majority on the current chain that you see and is called bitcoin.
but you could not accept and did not respect the majority's opinion and still insist on your minority hard fork.

and the worst part is you are going against "satoshi's vision", the very thing you pretend to support. which is a decentralized system that works based on consensus of the majority not what some small group of people want.

and here is a question for you:
you say your proposal is the best, you claim to be the satoshi's vision, and lots more. so why don't you make something from scratch? call it Satoshi's Vistion Coin or SVC for short.

So does the most of the community. BCC is most probably be dumped after 1st August. The fork wasn't needed anytime soon specially when the majority was happily supporting Segwit.

I think it will not fall, now it is carrying a very good value, I think it will have a stable step, it will be like the bitcoin child, but it is just adopted child. It can not carry the power of bitcoin.

[virasog]

My opposition is not because they are trying to hard fork
not because they are trying to increase the block size to 8 MB and open up many attack vectors.
not because they are effectively centralizing bitcoin.
not because they have the biggest scammer as their speaker.
not because they have been attacking bitcoin and trying to take over for more than 3 years.
...
these are all minor reasons.

the main reason that i am against bitcoinCash is because they are going against the majority. we voted, the nodes, the miners, the businesses, ... and got the majority on the current chain that you see and is called bitcoin.
but you could not accept and did not respect the majority's opinion and still insist on your minority hard fork.

and the worst part is you are going against "satoshi's vision", the very thing you pretend to support. which is a decentralized system that works based on consensus of the majority not what some small group of people want.

and here is a question for you:
you say your proposal is the best, you claim to be the satoshi's vision, and lots more. so why don't you make something from scratch? call it Satoshi's Vistion Coin or SVC for short.

I just dont get one thing clear here that when everyone or atleast a majority agrees on BIP91 softfork and it is locked, then how it is possible that minority can still take their decision and start a hard fork. Will it impact the whole bitcoin or BCC will just be an altcoin ? Also if you see the price of BCC now at Viabtc (where is it available and exchanged), it has down by 50%, a 0.08 percent loss in its value, means people already rejecting BCC.

[izza123]

BCC is such a disappointment. A bunch of petulant children are angry that they arent getting their way yet so they think they can change the whole scene at the snap of their fingers. I hope it crashes and burns to 0 with a bullet.

[BrewMaster]

....
I think it will not fall, now it is carrying a very good value, I think it will have a stable step,...

you need to do some research before making statements like this.
first thing you missed is that for the past 5 to 6 days that it was listed on an exchange the price has fallen about -30%
and this is all happening while the fork has not yet happened, in other words people don't even have their free BCC tokens!

[hv_]

Maybe YOU guys don't need it, because YOU are rich compared to the poor billions living mostly in Asia.

i am going to give the same answer i gave to that throwaway account:
did you even read the topic! i doubt it.

and just FYI, i live in a third world country and compared to those imaginary Asians in your head is much poorer

Sure, I did not say that there are not poorer regions.

I only say big number count. Asia has the biggest junk of poor people on earth.

No wonder that this is created there as a REACTION to rich-men shitty BScore politics full of hidden agendas and patents.

Eh?

[Cult]

Maybe YOU guys don't need it, because YOU are rich compared to the poor billions living mostly in Asia.

They just cannot affort the tx fees.

SW will not help, at least not in a sudden and not really much.

2x will help quickly, but only if done quickly...eh?


So what the hack is your advice for the poor?

Pls not: use other scamcoins...


They take it in their own hands


So you see, not allowing on-chain scaling is really selfish and driven by some rich 'users'....eh?

Dude, bitcoin is not a charity, the protocol doesn't exist to help 'the poor', this is a technical issue and should be treated as such and solved amongst the experts, which are the Bitcoin Core developers.

[hv_]

Maybe YOU guys don't need it, because YOU are rich compared to the poor billions living mostly in Asia.

They just cannot affort the tx fees.

SW will not help, at least not in a sudden and not really much.

2x will help quickly, but only if done quickly...eh?


So what the hack is your advice for the poor?

Pls not: use other scamcoins...


They take it in their own hands


So you see, not allowing on-chain scaling is really selfish and driven by some rich 'users'....eh?

Dude, bitcoin is not a charity, the protocol doesn't exist to help 'the poor', this is a technical issue and should be treated as such and solved amongst the experts, which are the Bitcoin Core developers.

Bitcoin is the world electronic internet of cash and about to be used by anybody, including the poor and the tech is there to do it right now!

So tell me a decent reason why it is protected by stupidity or agendas?

[northstarh]

BCC is such a disappointment. A bunch of petulant children are angry that they arent getting their way yet so they think they can change the whole scene at the snap of their fingers. I hope it crashes and burns to 0 with a bullet.

Absolutely agree, I feel hated BCC, I do not want it accepted, although it is currently carrying a good value. But compared to bitcoin, it is like a particle. It's just trying to sabotage bitcoin.

[franky1]

Dude, bitcoin is not a charity, the protocol doesn't exist to help 'the poor', this is a technical issue and should be treated as such and solved amongst the experts, which are the Bitcoin Core developers.

^ mindsets like this is where you give over your free will to dictators because you "trust" them purely because they MIGHT be better than a sheep.
its not about 'helping the poor' its about not letting certain cartel from restricting/ignoring/avoiding and prohibiting the poor from using it

[iqlimasyadiqa]

BCC is such a disappointment. A bunch of petulant children are angry that they arent getting their way yet so they think they can change the whole scene at the snap of their fingers. I hope it crashes and burns to 0 with a bullet.

I also hope the same thing. BCC will never exist, I'm afraid that BCC can disrupt a good bitcoin market share like this.
I do not want a nightmare like a bitcoin price reduction to happen.

[crypt0kid]

Great points! I think BCC is only about seizing power from the people and putting it into the hands of the greedy few. I hope people can look past their greed to see that this is a sham.

[DooMAD]

My opposition is not because they are trying to hard fork
not because they are trying to increase the block size to 8 MB and open up many attack vectors.
not because they are effectively centralizing bitcoin.
not because they have the biggest scammer as their speaker.
not because they have been attacking bitcoin and trying to take over for more than 3 years.
...
these are all minor reasons.

the main reason that i am against bitcoinCash is because they are going against the majority. we voted, the nodes, the miners, the businesses, ... and got the majority on the current chain that you see and is called bitcoin.
but you could not accept and did not respect the majority's opinion and still insist on your minority hard fork.

and the worst part is you are going against "satoshi's vision", the very thing you pretend to support. which is a decentralized system that works based on consensus of the majority not what some small group of people want.

and here is a question for you:
you say your proposal is the best, you claim to be the satoshi's vision, and lots more. so why don't you make something from scratch? call it Satoshi's Vistion Coin or SVC for short.

Okay, and what would you like people to do with this information, exactly?  Smile and nod?  You can be opposed to whatever you like, but they're still perfectly entitled to do what they're doing.  I have no particular interest in BCC, but I won't abide people trying to tell others what software they can or can't freely choose to run.  You don't like Bitcoin Cash?  Great, don't run it.  That's about as far as your opposition goes, aside from expressing your dissatisfaction about it here on the internet, which doesn't carry a lot of weight.  

You seem to have some unique ideas about what consensus means, so I'll clarify that for you.  Firstly, just because the miners agreed on SegWit2x, that doesn't necessarily mean everyone did.  There are some people on these forums who like to make the argument that miners are the only important nodes, but I don't subscribe to that notion.  So it should be made quite clear that most non-mining nodes are not running the /btc1 code which the miners likely are.  It's far from a unanimous decision.  

Further to that point, even if 99% of the participants are running the same code (they aren't, but still), if you are part of the remaining 1% who doesn't agree with that code, no one can put a gun to your head and force you to run it.  Consensus doesn't mean you are required by some sort of law to follow along for the ride.  You are absolutely, 100%, completely free to fork away at any point you choose to.  That's your inalienable right in a permissionless environment.  You are therefore not in a position to deny that right to others.

Also, in case it wasn't obvious, consensus can only be achieved by actually running code.  Sure, it's unlikely consensus would ever result in BCC building the longest chain, but if they don't release the code to find out for sure, how would we ever know?  You can't preempt consensus.  It's not your call to make.  So just relax and let the chips fall where they may.

Lastly, as for why they don't make something from scratch, again, the answer is "permissionless" and "open source".  Try and stop them.  That's right, you can't.  They can do whatever they want, as can you.  I, for one, am more than a little tired of hearing about what everyone thinks Satoshi's vision is.  The only thing I can tell you is that Satoshi probably wasn't some tyrannical "thought-police" despotic type who likes telling people what to do.  Maybe everyone could incorporate a little more of that part of his vision and stop pretending to speak for them.

[olubams]

My opposition is not because they are trying to hard fork
not because they are trying to increase the block size to 8 MB and open up many attack vectors.
not because they are effectively centralizing bitcoin.
not because they have the biggest scammer as their speaker.
not because they have been attacking bitcoin and trying to take over for more than 3 years.
...
these are all minor reasons.

the main reason that i am against bitcoinCash is because they are going against the majority. we voted, the nodes, the miners, the businesses, ... and got the majority on the current chain that you see and is called bitcoin.
but you could not accept and did not respect the majority's opinion and still insist on your minority hard fork.

and the worst part is you are going against "satoshi's vision", the very thing you pretend to support. which is a decentralized system that works based on consensus of the majority not what some small group of people want.

and here is a question for you:
you say your proposal is the best, you claim to be the satoshi's vision, and lots more. so why don't you make something from scratch? call it Satoshi's Vistion Coin or SVC for short.

You are not the only one who is against BCC others are equally against it with some school of thought concluding its some set of people wanting to hijack bitcoin, aside that even some release by some exchange site was ''group of small developers'' which I see connotes something. All I can say is the outcome of BCC whether its going to be successful or not is going to be determined by the community. Those who believed in it have their utmost reasons why they are doing so and it then fall back to the issue of which side control the highest population with the highest volume of BTC.

[cramcram21]

Yeah seems like there is no one who is in favor for BCC,
Seems that it would be just like a new alt-coin and no one is interested for it.

[hv_]

Dude, bitcoin is not a charity, the protocol doesn't exist to help 'the poor', this is a technical issue and should be treated as such and solved amongst the experts, which are the Bitcoin Core developers.

^ mindsets like this is where you give over your free will to dictators because you "trust" them purely because they MIGHT be better than a sheep.
its not about 'helping the poor' its about not letting certain cartel from restricting/ignoring/avoiding and prohibiting the poor from using it

I tried, but I could not have said it better.

The classical issue is that there are billions of sheeps, millions of wolfes and just a few Gandalfs for protection.  

But the biggest shit you can think of is, having a wolf sitting at the entrance core door of the safe home where all sheeps have to pass by...

[stupid_seb]

Yeah seems like there is no one who is in favor for BCC,
Seems that it would be just like a new alt-coin and no one is interested for it.

A new coin, created out of thin air, with a lot of hash power held "hostage"

It's a new form of ICO. The only mean of existence to BCC is that Bitmain will create massive amounts of money out of nothing.

BCC market cap is a heist.

[Rinaze]

Is there a chance for BCC developers / miners (and from what I understand this stands at 40%+ atm?) / supporters to dump all their BTC and buy back their BCC? If they do that (which I highly doubt so) I think there's a high chance of swaying the majority community. It's an all out war though if this happens!

[crazyivan]

My opposition is not because they are trying to hard fork
not because they are trying to increase the block size to 8 MB and open up many attack vectors.
not because they are effectively centralizing bitcoin.
not because they have the biggest scammer as their speaker.
not because they have been attacking bitcoin and trying to take over for more than 3 years.
...
these are all minor reasons.

the main reason that i am against bitcoinCash is because they are going against the majority. we voted, the nodes, the miners, the businesses, ... and got the majority on the current chain that you see and is called bitcoin.
but you could not accept and did not respect the majority's opinion and still insist on your minority hard fork.

and the worst part is you are going against "satoshi's vision", the very thing you pretend to support. which is a decentralized system that works based on consensus of the majority not what some small group of people want.

and here is a question for you:
you say your proposal is the best, you claim to be the satoshi's vision, and lots more. so why don't you make something from scratch? call it Satoshi's Vistion Coin or SVC for short.

Exactly. Majority of us here are against it and for sure that this altcoin won't survive or would be irrelevant in the future. They just want to disrupt and cause commotion in the market and I think they will not succeed because its plain and simple: They are all greedy and just want to gain profit out of bitcoin's name. I hope that newbies will not fall for this and realize that this is a trap so better exit early and stick with bitcoin only.

YES! This is +1

Not only they re greedy fucks trying to make money on this reinventing BTC, they re trying to disrupt the entire crypto. Imagine where would cryptocurrency be if BTC immutability would be destroyed and some fucker would be able to fork BTC and gets accepted by the market as the new BTC every time they want. No trust, no crypto.

So, just dump that shit as soon as you get it and never touch BCC again.

[Bitforking]

seems this is the very weakness if Bitcoin, that it allows change and not able to stop self distruction.

all the goodies of BTC that is out of touch of any authorities, is now destroyed by its creators.

that is why the world have dictators

[erep]

It doesnt matter what we are supporting. No coin can replace Bitcoin, even if the great Satoshi Nakamoto comes and order everyone to leave Bitcoin then also I would say majority of the people will be standing with Bitcoin. Its just free money guys, claim them and sell them for more Bitcoins. 

[Arindava]

Bitcoin Unlimited tried it and now Bitcoin Cash.
It seems like they are loving to use the name for a different purpose.
A high popularity bitcoin is being tried to be cloned and yet no one succeeded.
This will just have the same faith as how the BU ends up.
Trying to somehow pull some users is a good strategy. But they will be back.

Back to bitcoin you mean ?? Yes now there are many many new designations for bitcoin whether it is BU or BCC but I am sure all will go back to bitcoin, I agree with you ..

[Kwelstr]

I have created a poll to see how the community views the fork and the future of bitcoin. Please answer the poll so we can have a statistically significant number of responses.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2048167.0;all

I am trying to be fair on that poll and included as many answers as I could think of. I will keep the poll open until a couple of hours before the Aug 1st fork. Let's see if the wisdom of the forum is indicative of how it will turn out.

Thank you for participating.

[JohnMacaron]

Go fork yourselves Bitcoin Cash unbelievers. We Shall Prevail!

[pooya87]

Maybe YOU guys don't need it, because YOU are rich compared to the poor billions living mostly in Asia.

They just cannot affort the tx fees.

SW will not help, at least not in a sudden and not really much.

2x will help quickly, but only if done quickly...eh?


So what the hack is your advice for the poor?

Pls not: use other scamcoins...


They take it in their own hands


So you see, not allowing on-chain scaling is really selfish and driven by some rich 'users'....eh?

if you think increasing the block size is going to make the transactions cheap and keep them that way then you are the "sheep".

no my friend. you may have a short period of fun and cheap transactions before mining cartel decides they are missing out on profit.
the first thing they will do is to change their minRelayTxFee to a higher number in their own modified code and start rejecting any transaction that is "cheap" to force the fees to go up.
next thing they will do is to spam attack the chain like they (or anybody else who were doing it and just taught everyone how to successfully do it) have been doing in the past 6 months to force the fees to go up.

and do you honestly think the mining cartel is going to give up the (12.5+fees) * $2700 and rising and go for (12.5+ cheap to no fees) * $100

wake up

[Yakamoto]

BCC is just adding to the mass autism that is the crypto market and is essentially proving why a truly decentralized platform is completely impossible to work with if there is not a completely aligned vision for the project. It's a mass of people who simply don't want to go along with the hashing power, namely the primary portion of the network, just because they don't want to, when they have a full right to get involved and have their own voice to be heard. If they really cared about the project then they would have their own hashing power and be participating in the decision-making process, but instead they just follow along with whatever the contrarian thing is because they're either in it solely for money, or they are uninterested with actually making themselves part of the project.

[hajimasan]

My opposition is not because they are trying to hard fork
not because they are trying to increase the block size to 8 MB and open up many attack vectors.
not because they are effectively centralizing bitcoin.
not because they have the biggest scammer as their speaker.
not because they have been attacking bitcoin and trying to take over for more than 3 years.
...
these are all minor reasons.

the main reason that i am against bitcoinCash is because they are going against the majority. we voted, the nodes, the miners, the businesses, ... and got the majority on the current chain that you see and is called bitcoin.
but you could not accept and did not respect the majority's opinion and still insist on your minority hard fork.

and the worst part is you are going against "satoshi's vision", the very thing you pretend to support. which is a decentralized system that works based on consensus of the majority not what some small group of people want.

and here is a question for you:
you say your proposal is the best, you claim to be the satoshi's vision, and lots more. so why don't you make something from scratch? call it Satoshi's Vistion Coin or SVC for short.

Here if you can see the moment in the Etherium fork that happened in the last year back , where the majority were in the opposition of the decision to make new coin as ETH and real coin to ETC . But still they made the same that what they declare in the starting .
Now a big factor is that what will happen here , it btc will BCC of BCC will be named as BTC .
Here personally I don't like this decision ( if made by the team of this experiment ) .
Here it will be more better to remain the bitcoin only bitcoin and new coin should be at his own place .
Every coin has own value and we are happy with bitcoin and if we would like BCC then we will collect them .But still I think happen will be according to minority that thought to make , and here may be happen same regardless of the majority and minority of the support network .
We'll wait for the result until everything happened perfectly .

[The One]

My opposition is not because they are trying to hard fork
not because they are trying to increase the block size to 8 MB and open up many attack vectors.
not because they are effectively centralizing bitcoin.
not because they have the biggest scammer as their speaker.
not because they have been attacking bitcoin and trying to take over for more than 3 years.
...
these are all minor reasons.

the main reason that i am against bitcoinCash is because they are going against the majority. we voted, the nodes, the miners, the businesses, ... and got the majority on the current chain that you see and is called bitcoin.
but you could not accept and did not respect the majority's opinion and still insist on your minority hard fork.

and the worst part is you are going against "satoshi's vision", the very thing you pretend to support. which is a decentralized system that works based on consensus of the majority not what some small group of people want.

and here is a question for you:
you say your proposal is the best, you claim to be the satoshi's vision, and lots more. so why don't you make something from scratch? call it Satoshi's Vistion Coin or SVC for short.

For me, I think that it is the perfect time for Nakamoto to show up to the world. And tell us that he is against this BCC, it is against on his work the bitcoin. Why they want to have a hard fork when they can refer to the original? The bitcoin. I am also against this actually. Our coins might be at high risk rather than bitcoin.

Does bitcoin core follows Satoshi's whitepaper? NO.
Does bitcoin cash follows Satoshi's whitepaper? Yes.

[Oo ako to]

Yeah seems like there is no one who is in favor for BCC,
Seems that it would be just like a new alt-coin and no one is interested for it.

I have seen many exchanges that are not in favor and will not support bitcoincash. I do agree that this will make a major confusion in the future. It's not just going to split  the bitcoin but also the community.

[Sniper150]

bcc will be meaningless altcoin, don't waste time on it 

Why are you saying it is meaningless altcoin? I don't get your point here. Well, thank for this information, now I know the meaning of BCC. If the question is about against about bitcoin cash, then my answer is nope, because if ever that the bitcoin would become a cash, for me it is ok because from that point you can hold your own bitcoin and you are 100% sure that your bitcoin is safe by your hand unlike in an online wallet that is prone to hack by the hackers. With this, we can feel the fruit of our hardwork.

[Bitforking]

Yeah seems like there is no one who is in favor for BCC,
Seems that it would be just like a new alt-coin and no one is interested for it.

I have seen many exchanges that are not in favor and will not support bitcoincash. I do agree that this will make a major confusion in the future. It's not just going to split  the bitcoin but also the community.

sounds like exchanges can make decisions on whether to decentralise bitcoin after forking, it also sounds like a political decision so the miners who has less capacity could share with Jihan's machines. a bit communist to me.

the reason behind the forking is so obvious and it is against powerful miners, and who eventually control more coins.

'does not respect' ? my ass!

[Joohansson]

Exchanges are using BCH for bitcoin cash, not BCC as it is already taken by BitConnectCoin (https://bitconnectcoin.co/).
Please start using BCH, using BCC is retarded and confusing!

[Viscoat]

This post is worth reading if you have any doubt that bcc is a fraud.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2050936.0

I think there is little difference between BCC and other altcoin. So it is just a new coin with many existing users. So it is not a fraud.

[25hashcoin]

You don't understand bitcoin. The market will decide.

[BitcoinerXX]

You don't understand bitcoin. The market will decide.

the market will decide its another scamcoin soon. people will be scrambling to dump their bcc trash to buy more btc gold.

[bobitza]

My opposition is not because they are trying to hard fork
not because they are trying to increase the block size to 8 MB and open up many attack vectors.
not because they are effectively centralizing bitcoin.
not because they have the biggest scammer as their speaker.
not because they have been attacking bitcoin and trying to take over for more than 3 years.
...
these are all minor reasons.

the main reason that i am against bitcoinCash is because they are going against the majority. we voted, the nodes, the miners, the businesses, ... and got the majority on the current chain that you see and is called bitcoin.
but you could not accept and did not respect the majority's opinion and still insist on your minority hard fork.

and the worst part is you are going against "satoshi's vision", the very thing you pretend to support. which is a decentralized system that works based on consensus of the majority not what some small group of people want.

and here is a question for you:
you say your proposal is the best, you claim to be the satoshi's vision, and lots more. so why don't you make something from scratch? call it Satoshi's Vistion Coin or SVC for short.

For me, I think that it is the perfect time for Nakamoto to show up to the world. And tell us that he is against this BCC, it is against on his work the bitcoin. Why they want to have a hard fork when they can refer to the original? The bitcoin. I am also against this actually. Our coins might be at high risk rather than bitcoin.

He will never appear, it's just a fake name, which was fabricated to hide the true identity of the bitcoin maker.

[hv_]

Maybe YOU guys don't need it, because YOU are rich compared to the poor billions living mostly in Asia.

They just cannot affort the tx fees.

SW will not help, at least not in a sudden and not really much.

2x will help quickly, but only if done quickly...eh?


So what the hack is your advice for the poor?

Pls not: use other scamcoins...


They take it in their own hands


So you see, not allowing on-chain scaling is really selfish and driven by some rich 'users'....eh?

if you think increasing the block size is going to make the transactions cheap and keep them that way then you are the "sheep".

no my friend. you may have a short period of fun and cheap transactions before mining cartel decides they are missing out on profit.
the first thing they will do is to change their minRelayTxFee to a higher number in their own modified code and start rejecting any transaction that is "cheap" to force the fees to go up.
next thing they will do is to spam attack the chain like they (or anybody else who were doing it and just taught everyone how to successfully do it) have been doing in the past 6 months to force the fees to go up.

and do you honestly think the mining cartel is going to give up the (12.5+fees) * $2700 and rising and go for (12.5+ cheap to no fees) * $100

wake up

I am wake since this scaling shit started.
The miners will OPTIMIZE the blocksize by many constraints. So it seems you know a little but not the entire economic + technological intermezzo. Its about non-linear optimization and finding some local extreme values.

Agreed we are all sheeps because this is complexity in its perfection.

Everybody trying  bribble this or that techy part is just wrong per definition of complexity. Free makrets will decide whats right not a single entitiy with too much to say yet. Getting to that free market is the correct way, allow maximum competition and freedom and evolutionary mechanics will acomplish our needs as they did for billions of years.

[rifatrony5]

So many scam coins are wanted to publish on Market.
It should be ban very soon otherwise Altcoins Market will also suffer by them.

[darthmaul]

The real work is always appreciated by talented people. The BCC is just waste stuff and one should not focus on it. The more we will think about it the more we are loosing control from the bitcoin itself. However, with BCC being on network with prelaunch price of 300-400 dollars it will still need big whales to invest in so that it could cross or come closer to bitcoin value. For the time being, I'm pretty sure that won't happen.

The increased size of block isn't the thing that everyone knows in perfect sense. There is still big learnings to be done for world to understand it. This is good for bitcoin and BCC won't get anything from it.

[BitcoinerXX]

So many scam coins are wanted to publish on Market.
It should be ban very soon otherwise Altcoins Market will also suffer by them.

dont worry, gov regulation otw to save the day 

[matuson]

It seems to me that the desire of people to have cash bitcoins due to the fact that the people have not rebuilt their thinking. They are too tied to stereotypes Fiat currency. They do not understand that bitcoin is not only currency, but also a special mindset. The highest expression of democracy.

[Adbitco]

My opposition is not because they are trying to hard fork
not because they are trying to increase the block size to 8 MB and open up many attack vectors.
not because they are effectively centralizing bitcoin.
not because they have the biggest scammer as their speaker.
not because they have been attacking bitcoin and trying to take over for more than 3 years.
...
these are all minor reasons.

the main reason that i am against bitcoinCash is because they are going against the majority. we voted, the nodes, the miners, the businesses, ... and got the majority on the current chain that you see and is called bitcoin.
but you could not accept and did not respect the majority's opinion and still insist on your minority hard fork.

and the worst part is you are going against "satoshi's vision", the very thing you pretend to support. which is a decentralized system that works based on consensus of the majority not what some small group of people want.

and here is a question for you:
you say your proposal is the best, you claim to be the satoshi's vision, and lots more. so why don't you make something from scratch? call it Satoshi's Vistion Coin or SVC for short.

When it's an established fact that the majority is with bitcoin and not with the bitcoin cash why are we even bothered about what minority is doing. Lett them do whatever they want to ultimately they have to fail in their efforts. Yes I agree that if they think what they are trying to come up with is satoshi's true vision then of course they should start from scratch instead of making changes to existing bitcoin.

[Aur3]

I'm not sure where to stand. If there's a thing as Bitcoin Cash, what does it do to make bitcoin the next supernova in currency? Can it help start-up companies such as IMMLA goo.gl/qeK3mQ in achieving their great mission? Last question is, what better changes can it make for the world?

From where I stand, I know bitcoin can seem to fight corruption due to its blockchain technology. It can also be a vehicle to improve the quality of education in school. We can encourage students to take risk and invest.  

[bgibso01]

You don't understand bitcoin. The market will decide.

the market will decide its another scamcoin soon. people will be scrambling to dump their bcc trash to buy more btc gold.

If everyone getting free BCC, then who will buy BCC from exchange
Also, current rate looks good, around 20% of bitcoin price.. but can it hold for long time after 1st Aug

[Hui8]

Indeed I'm against the BCC stuff. It's not just you and me but all the community I guess. I'm sure this will affect the launch of BCC for sure. These devs have violated the work of Satoshi and which is not worthy and they will have to repay it by not having any investors in the future.

[DooMAD]

seems this is the very weakness if Bitcoin, that it allows change and not able to stop self distruction.

all the goodies of BTC that is out of touch of any authorities, is now destroyed by its creators.

that is why the world have dictators

The only "weakness" is in peoples' heads if they naively think Bitcoin would work better as some sort of dictatorship.  Bitcoin doesn't want or need your pampered, mollycoddled, nanny-state, protectionist foolishness.  Bitcoin survives in the wild and grows stronger and more robust through adaptation and freedom of choice, selecting the best code available from the open market at any given time.  NOT through some centralised authority restricting its growth and limiting its potential by preventing people from running the code they want.  Go away and use Ripple if that's the kind of sheltered environment you want to confine yourself to.  No one in power is going to save you here, because no one is in power and you don't need saving, except from yourself:

The time of the cypherpunks was all too short, now only the cypherpussies remain, pleading for someone in power to trust with their hopes and dreams.

So stop trying to weaken Bitcoin by restricting the open-source ethos which empowers and fuels it.  Either you accept that anyone can modify the code and run whatever code they like, or you can sit around complaining about something which is never going to change.  This is how it is.

[LTU_btc]

I'm not supporting BCC ideas, mainly because of centralization, but I think that they have right to exist. People will show what they think about this coin and where is the place of BCC. If BCC will be dumped by BTC supporters, what is most likely will happen, it will be just failed attempt to create rival to bitcoin. And after few years mostly of will forget about Bitcoin Cash.

[bitcoinvestor]

Why don`t Bitcoin Cash suporters create a brand new altcoin.(Somehting from scratch,like the OP said.)
They are using the name of Bitcoin to manipulate the newbies, who are not familiar with soft/hard forks.
Using the name "Bitcoin" gains some aditional level of trust,which they don`t deserve.
Bitcoin Cash should be renamed to something different-Baitcoin,Betcoin or Batcoin...i don`t know.

I think they want to take the big name bitcoin.When they want to create new coin you will see in the ANN page bitcointalk. There will be many bounty hunters looking for BCC. In fact they don't do that. They want bigger profit by driving on BTC vehicle.