Scammer: Inaba

[smoothie]

...

2. "Shouldn't be judged by one action". Well BFL has approximately 20k+ preorders and that is being quite conservative. Should I assume that taking PREORDERS for 11+ months by many thousands of customers as ONE ACTION? Come on that shouldn't even be used in the same page of text when writing about BFL. ONE ACTION? Hardly...

I don't care about preorders. If they were denying refunds as well, or making zero progress (they have made some) that would be a different story, but they aren't. People are more than capable of getting their money back any time they please. And yes I know it's dollar denominated, every business does that, even outside the "bitcoin world". Kinda seems hypocritical to ask for a scammer tag, while at the same time willingly allowing them to hold onto your money (yes I know you don't have an order with them, I mean in general).

...

Yes and so were everyone who was using PirateAt40's BTCS&T. They were all more than capable of getting their money back any time they pleased until they couldn't. PirateAt40 was given the benefit of the doubt too because he was "producing" returns each week and paying investors and making "progress".

This mindset that we need to wait until they run off with millions is the poverty mindset. Because going this route will make people poor because of substantial losses when there is nothing left to refund people.

Just saying...I see double standards and mirror images of all major scams in the past. BFL is no different.

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[smoothie]

Whatever, it is obvious that there will be no actions taken against BFL for obvious reasons. Money talks. Simple as that.

I'll be waiting far away with a good view once BFL explodes, then all of our warnings and requests to get BFL slapped with a scammer tag to help deter potential future victims will have been for nothing.

[BadBear]

Whatever, it is obvious that there will be no actions taken against BFL for obvious reasons. Money talks. Simple as that.

I'll be waiting far away with a good view once BFL explodes, then all of our warnings and requests to get BFL slapped with a scammer tag to help deter potential future victims will have been for nothing.

Just highlighting the ridiculous part of your argument. Scammer tags are for provable scams, not "potentially in the future fraud".

[smoothie]

Whatever, it is obvious that there will be no actions taken against BFL for obvious reasons. Money talks. Simple as that.

I'll be waiting far away with a good view once BFL explodes, then all of our warnings and requests to get BFL slapped with a scammer tag to help deter potential future victims will have been for nothing.

Just highlighting the ridiculous part of your argument. Scammer tags are for provable scams, not "potentially in the future fraud".

Future victims meaning okay...BFL is allowed to advertise on this forum right? People who dont know any better click on their ad go to their site and think BFL actually was or will have a product soon to ship, then they end up waiting a year or never getting their product.

The FUTURE victims was directed to all of the suckers buying into the BFL bullshit advertisements on this forum that get suckered in UNTIL BFL goes bust.

Got it? Is that ridiculous?

Oh wait it was ridiculous how myself and others were calling out the PirateAt40 collapse before it ended and attempted to deter FUTURE VICTIMS from gettin scammed (meaning those investing from the time I made the statement up until the scam went bust).

It still sound like a ridiculous statement to you?

It sure doesn't to me and many here seem to agree with me on it.

But as I said, the owners/operators of this forum will do what they want despite what me (a "TROLL") has to say.  

Let's remove the whole scammer tag thing...and let's focus on BFL paying for MISLEADING advertising on this forum okay? Do you agree with their misleading ads?

"ORDER NOW BFL MINER XX GH/S ONLY $YYYY!"

They don't even have the products to ship yet. So technically it should be PRE-ORDER NOW.

[kakobrekla]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Inaba

[surebet]

Ok, let's run this shit into the ground properly.

I'm not talking about BFL as a whole. I don't care about BFL as a whole. Josh, the person, made a 1000 btc bet, personally. This interests me. Josh, the C-level exec, made another 1000 btc bet, on behalf of BFL. Don't care.


Their terribad piece of vaporware gulps gown stupid amounts of electricity. Bet lost. 1000 coins owed.

First of all, the bet got redefined as 100k$. Weasel ahoy. The of course the whole thing has been strung along for two months. Yay.

Don't want to tag BFL? Cool, don't. Don't care. You might want to consider stopping to take 2-5 thousand bucks per week from them, since this clearly crosses the line from caveat emptor into accomplice, but whatever.

Don't want to tag Inaba? Cool. Matthew N. pulled the same six figure bullshit. Slap an "untrustworthy" title on him.

One incident not enough? Cool, take off dank's tag.

[Xian01]

Scammer tags are for provable scams, not "potentially in the future fraud".

 This is a pretty myopic worldview IMO.
 
 How would you feel if you knew you had a chance to do something about a possible problem, didn't, and lots of people get damaged because of it once everything comes crashing down ?

 I'm just saying, there is a great body of evidence pointing to some pretty despicable, unethical, and immoral behavior here, and BadBear, you are effectively saying "I don't care until someone get's damaged".

 Additionally, you are insinuating "I don't care what the community thinks. I'm not doing anything to alleviate their concerns."

 That's pretty bad, Bear.

 I hate to break it to you, but people have already become defrauded and damaged, and you're sitting there saying "I don't care".

[Phinnaeus Gage]

First of all, the bet got redefined as 100k$.

Link please.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Whatever, it is obvious that there will be no actions taken against BFL for obvious reasons. Money talks. Simple as that.

I'll be waiting far away with a good view once BFL explodes, then all of our warnings and requests to get BFL slapped with a scammer tag to help deter potential future victims will have been for nothing.

Just highlighting the ridiculous part of your argument. Scammer tags are for provable scams, not "potentially in the future fraud".

Yeah! That's what the trust thingy is for:

Risked BTC amount is money that the person could have stolen or did steal.

[RandyFolds]

I am generally not tagging scammers anymore. Use the trust system.

Do you know if Inaba sponsored this development?

Have you not seen the huge amount of scams lately? Especially alt coin related, there's far too many to keep going with the scammer tag system. It would be a full time 24\7 job to take care of them all. It's squarely in the hands of the users now, as it should be.

If it's square in the hands of the users, and a documented bet that isn't honored is no longer worthy of a scammer tag, I move that Matthew be cleared of his 'untrustworthy' status. He's doing everything right, and continues to be punished for shooting his mouth off. Inaba, however, is a cocksucker schilling a non-existent product.

In summation, fuck Inaba, fuck BFL, and fuck all their fanboys. I called them out as a scam years ago, and people have thrown millions at them in the meantime, all while begging for BFL to use some lube as BFL rough fucks them for their donations to BFL's cause.

[becoin]

People are more than capable of getting their money back any time they please. And yes I know it's dollar denominated, every business does that, even outside the "bitcoin world".

That doesn't correspond to the truth. BFL refuses full bitcoin refunds - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137026.0
I have warned people several months ago. What you did is change the title and lock the thread.

Denomination is a proper description of a currency amount, usually for coins or banknotes. For example, five euros is the denomination of a five euro note. Talking about denomination of a purchase order is totally irrelevant! Unless, of course, you purchase a bond. But BFL customers aren't investors, are they? They are just donors.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

If you buy an item from a shop in Europe using the Euros, you get the refund back in Euros.

If you pay it with a credit card with USD, the credit card company exchanges your USD to Euros. They do not care about USD, they got Euros.

This is what Bitpay does.


I doubt that BFL has not spent a single dollar of preorder money through, good luck to everyone getting a refund.

[becoin]

If you buy an item from a shop in Europe using the Euros, you get the refund back in Euros.

If you pay it with a credit card with USD, the credit card company exchanges your USD to Euros. They do not care about USD, they got Euros.

This is what Bitpay does.

There is a big difference between credit card payments and a bitcoin payments. It is the currency of transaction!

Refund is just the reversal of a transaction. If you pay EUR from your USD run credit card, the transaction currency is EUR. This is why you get refund in EUR. You have a contract signed with your credit card issuing bank to make the currency conversions for you. This is YOUR bank that is making the currency conversions, not the merchant!

While making a payment in bitcoins the transaction currency is bitcoins, not USD. BitPay is making the currency conversion for BFL, not for BFL customers. BFL customers don't have any agreemnet signed with BitPay. BFL have! This why the invoice issued by BitPay on behalf of BFL has prices both in USD and bitcoins!

You should really read the thread I've pointed out!

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

The item is priced in USD, you are paying with BTC.

Now Available for Order:

50 GH/s Bitcoin Miner - $2,499

Like it or not, Bitcoin will never be used for commercial transactions if you can get free currency speculation. You're attacking BFL with the wrong point.

[becoin]

The item is priced in USD, you are paying with BTC.

Again, this doesn't correspond to the truth! What does matter is not the price tag but the invoice! Invoice is the commercial paper that is presented in a court of law.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137026.msg1460393#msg1460393

Like it or not, Bitcoin will never be used for commercial transactions if you can get free currency speculation.

BFL is using bitcoin for free currency speculation, not me. I had the bitcoins BEFORE I decided to transfer them to BFL!!! How do I profit if I sent 50 bitcoins to BFL and got exactly 50 bitcoins refunded?

8. ASIC startups strongly oppose full bitcoin refunds as they are a big profit source. Firstly, because bitcoin is still unregulated as a currency and as a method of payment and secondly, because receiving bitcoins and later refunding in $, gives those companies free option call to profit from BTC /$ exchange rates differences between payment and refund dates. Of course, what is profit for them is a loss for you!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136615.0

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

To quote SgtSpike: "That is not pricing in Bitcoins.  That is asking for payment in Bitcoins in an amount equivalent to the USD pricing."

BFL most likely has elected to receive payments in USD not BTC. BitPay would automatically convert it then. You profit in that if BTC goes up, you can cancel your preorder and rebuy - so you are holding something in USD and BTC, and choosing which one based on the prices.

Please stop, you're not helping your cause.

[oakpacific]

I think the bottom line is: you can argue that as long as BFL has not defaulted yet, mods should not be in a place to make predictions, as they should only handout scammer tags based on facts of scamming. Otoh, if there is sufficient evidence that BFL hasn't reached their power traget, the bet between Inaba and Micon should be upheld, and Inaba should get a scammer tag if he refuses to pay up the 1000 BTCs.

[mem]

You know the drill. An "untrustworthy" tag à la Matthew N. Wright could also be considered.

After getting scammertagged and then the community cools down, upgrade to Untrustworthy should be a community decision.

Second

[becoin]

BFL most likely has elected to receive payments in USD not BTC. BitPay would automatically convert it then.

Only BitPay and BFL know how much of the received bitcoins they converted in $$ and how much they decided to keep in bitcoins! And this, my friend, is exactly the definition of a free option call BFL gets at the expense of their customers...

You profit in that if BTC goes up, you can cancel your preorder and rebuy - so you are holding something in USD and BTC, and choosing which one based on the prices.

This is actually a nonsense!

Case 1
I have 50 bitcoins.
I transfer 50 bitcoins to BFL
I receive 50 bitcoins refund for BFL fails to deliver.
Result: I have 50 bitcoins

Case 2
I have 50 bitcoins.
I don't transfer any bitcoins to BFL
Result: I have 50 bitcoins.

How do I profit from following Case 1 than following Case 2?

Please stop, you're not helping your cause.

If you have arguments, please tell them? If you don't, please don't tell me what to do!

[surebet]

I think the bottom line is: you can argue that as long as BFL has not defaulted yet, mods should not be in a place to make predictions, as they should only handout scammer tags based on facts of scamming. Otoh, if there is sufficient evidence that BFL hasn't reached their power traget, the bet between Inaba and Micon should be upheld, and Inaba should get a scammer tag if he refuses to pay up the 1000 BTCs.

Geez, as long as he doesn't flat out refuse to pay, he can take all the time in the world, right? Never mind the fact that he didn't put up the cash in escrow as specified and that it's been two months, it not like he (or the people he works with) have a track record for being hilariously late with stuff and or simply not delivering.