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 Author Topic: Marketplace trust  (Read 82935 times)
theymos (OP)
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 May 24, 2013, 03:53:29 PMLast edit: May 24, 2013, 04:24:57 PM by theymos

New number in brackets? I thought it was the number of people that have trusted that user in your trust network, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

EDIT: Number of users directly in your trust list that have gave positive feedback?

One person in your trust network can increase the third number to infinity (maybe literally). The fourth number in parenthesis can't be manipulated so easily. It's a rough approximation of the number of trust points from distinct users per month. So if I rate someone 3 times in one month and 3 times in another month, the fourth number should be 6. But if I rate them 1000 times in one month, their fourth number should be ~5. (But it's actually only an approximation of this.)

I needed to get this number for the trust score anyway, so I thought I'd include it.

The trust score is currently calculated like this:
floor((min(fourth_number,10*months_since_first_positive_report)/10)^2*months_since_first_positive_report - distinct_scam_reporters * scam_factor)

Where scam_factor starts at 0.5 and increases by 1 if the newest scam report is less than 7 days old and by 3 if months_since_first_positive_report is less than 2.

It will be more clear in a couple months whether this is a good algorithm. I'll tweak it more then.

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BCB
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BCJ

 May 24, 2013, 04:00:01 PM

Ok, I'm confused.  Probably won't use it.  Also I've don't thousand of trades here.  Not sure how to go back and include them all.

Nice addition though.  Hope it is effective.
paraipan
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Firstbits: 1pirata

 May 24, 2013, 06:36:39 PM

Ok, I'm confused.  Probably won't use it.  Also I've don't thousand of trades here.  Not sure how to go back and include them all.

Nice addition though.  Hope it is effective.

+1 nice work theymos

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Stunna
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Primedice.com, Stake.com

 May 24, 2013, 09:53:20 PM

Very positive addition in my opinion, hopefully it won't be abused. OTC is very challenging to setup and confusing for beginners so this could be the alternative many have been looking for.

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theymos (OP)
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 May 25, 2013, 02:45:33 AM

Extended to PMs and many other boards (Trading discussion and subsections, Mining and subsections, Newbies, alt cryptocurrencies, and some local sections).

ReCat
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 May 25, 2013, 03:24:36 AM

This is pretty cool. Now if only craigslist could have something like this.

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Away on an extended break

 May 25, 2013, 03:26:27 AM

Extended to PMs and many other boards (Trading discussion and subsections, Mining and subsections, Newbies, alt cryptocurrencies, and some local sections).

Awesome!
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 May 25, 2013, 07:48:02 AM

Very positive addition in my opinion, hopefully it won't be abused. OTC is very challenging to setup and confusing for beginners so this could be the alternative many have been looking for.

+1, like this new system very much, and I also hope that it can not be abused be a few newbies pushing themselves with fake data or so.

regards

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 May 25, 2013, 08:41:46 AM

I just happened upon this today and think it's a great idea.  I don't personally like the way -otc has two sets of numbers, one of which is meaningless (well the way it's used makes it meaningless).

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tysat
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Keep it real

 May 25, 2013, 11:35:21 AM

Very positive addition in my opinion, hopefully it won't be abused. OTC is very challenging to setup and confusing for beginners so this could be the alternative many have been looking for.

+1, like this new system very much, and I also hope that it can not be abused be a few newbies pushing themselves with fake data or so.

regards

If people are pushing fake data they probably won't be on trust lists, hence they won't have trusted reviews.
Matthew N. Wright
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 May 25, 2013, 11:55:01 AM

What's the point of having feedback + trust if you can hand choose who it comes from? Obviously scammers will not "trust" people they scammed, so any negative feedback will never happen. Is this the way it's being set up or did I miss something?

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tysat
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 May 25, 2013, 11:58:10 AM

What's the point of having feedback + trust if you can hand choose who it comes from? Obviously scammers will not "trust" people they scammed, so any negative feedback will never happen. Is this the way it's being set up or did I miss something?

I thought it was you trust the feedback of people you trust (to whatever level you have it set, 1 for me).  So if someone I trusted got scammed, or if someone who was trusted by someone I trusted got scammed, and left feedback then I'd see it a trusted scam report.
tysat
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Keep it real

 May 25, 2013, 12:02:49 PM

What's the point of having feedback + trust if you can hand choose who it comes from? Obviously scammers will not "trust" people they scammed, so any negative feedback will never happen. Is this the way it's being set up or did I miss something?

I thought it was you trust the feedback of people you trust (to whatever level you have it set, 1 for me).  So if someone I trusted got scammed, or if someone who was trusted by someone I trusted got scammed, and left feedback then I'd see it a trusted scam report.

What are the odds that some one you trusted gets scammed? And that this system is the only way you hear about it?

The odds of that are pretty low.  I'd say it's more useful for having a concentrated place to leave feedback, and the trust system to help filter out some of the useless spam.
Matthew N. Wright
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 May 25, 2013, 12:08:56 PM

What's the point of having feedback + trust if you can hand choose who it comes from? Obviously scammers will not "trust" people they scammed, so any negative feedback will never happen. Is this the way it's being set up or did I miss something?

I thought it was you trust the feedback of people you trust (to whatever level you have it set, 1 for me).  So if someone I trusted got scammed, or if someone who was trusted by someone I trusted got scammed, and left feedback then I'd see it a trusted scam report.

What are the odds that some one you trusted gets scammed? And that this system is the only way you hear about it?

The odds of that are pretty low.  I'd say it's more useful for having a concentrated place to leave feedback, and the trust system to help filter out some of the useless spam.

That's kind of my point though, if you're only allowed to leave feedback *to* the people who trust you, and someone who doesn't trust you cannot have feedback left against them by you, then it seems pretty pointless. I hope that I'm misunderstanding this.

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tysat
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Keep it real

 May 25, 2013, 12:16:15 PM

What's the point of having feedback + trust if you can hand choose who it comes from? Obviously scammers will not "trust" people they scammed, so any negative feedback will never happen. Is this the way it's being set up or did I miss something?

I thought it was you trust the feedback of people you trust (to whatever level you have it set, 1 for me).  So if someone I trusted got scammed, or if someone who was trusted by someone I trusted got scammed, and left feedback then I'd see it a trusted scam report.

What are the odds that some one you trusted gets scammed? And that this system is the only way you hear about it?

The odds of that are pretty low.  I'd say it's more useful for having a concentrated place to leave feedback, and the trust system to help filter out some of the useless spam.

That's kind of my point though, if you're only allowed to leave feedback *to* the people who trust you, and someone who doesn't trust you cannot have feedback left against them by you, then it seems pretty pointless. I hope that I'm misunderstanding this.

I think you're misunderstanding it...

Here's how I believe it works:
- I conduct a transaction with A
- Leave feedback on A after it's done
- If no one in your trust network trusts me, the feedback for A from me shows as untrusted
- If someone in your trust network trusts me, it'll show as trusted feedback for A
- Same thing for a feedback or scam report (I think?)

My only question is does the number calculate different for who's looking at it, or is it always the same?

I'm hoping it's based off of trust network feedback, not just all feedback (or at least part of it is).

Edit:
The number is not all feedback, it's only from your trust network.

Guess what I hoped is right.
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 May 25, 2013, 12:17:09 PM

The number is not all feedback, it's only from your trust network.
Matthew N. Wright
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 May 25, 2013, 12:20:20 PM

In other words, this isn't about who you trust for transactions, this is about whos opinions of others you trust?

So if I want to go to Pirateat40's account and leave a negative feedback, I'm allowed to, but since he doesnt' have me in his trust network, it won't show up in his profile at all when others see it?

Or is it that when I leave a negative feedback for him, no one will see it unless they have me added in their trust list?

 My transparent history + transaction-specific feedback thread | No e-begging! If you need money, work for it! | Bitcoin EU Convention 2013, Amsterdam, Sept 26~28
tysat
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Keep it real

 May 25, 2013, 12:25:27 PM

Or is it that when I leave a negative feedback for him, no one will see it unless they have me added in their trust list?

That one!

The trust system is about the opinions you trust, meaning you trust their feedback.
Matthew N. Wright
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 May 25, 2013, 12:47:07 PM

Or is it that when I leave a negative feedback for him, no one will see it unless they have me added in their trust list?

That one!

The trust system is about the opinions you trust, meaning you trust their feedback.

So everyone potentially sees something completely different? So as Chaang Noi was saying, what are the chances of someone in *my* circle of trust being affected by a scam before I attempt to read said scammer's profile and find that there is no feedback (because I didn't trust someone else who already left bad feedback)?

I'm trying very hard to be hopeful for this, but every response makes me lose more faith in it being useful at all. It sounds more like "Market politics" than "market trust".

 My transparent history + transaction-specific feedback thread | No e-begging! If you need money, work for it! | Bitcoin EU Convention 2013, Amsterdam, Sept 26~28
tysat
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Keep it real

 May 25, 2013, 12:51:59 PM

Or is it that when I leave a negative feedback for him, no one will see it unless they have me added in their trust list?

That one!

The trust system is about the opinions you trust, meaning you trust their feedback.

So everyone potentially sees something completely different? So as Chaang Noi was saying, what are the chances of someone in *my* circle of trust being affected by a scam before I attempt to read said scammer's profile and find that there is no feedback (because I didn't trust someone else who already left bad feedback)?

I'm trying very hard to be hopeful for this, but every response makes me lose more faith in it being useful at all. It sounds more like "Market politics" than "market trust".

I don't see it being very useful for the scam side, more to confirm that someone may or may not be trustworthy.  It's just a good way to centrally record transactions and better than feedback threads.
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