Bitcoin Forum
December 15, 2017, 01:23:11 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  

Warning: Moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Watch out for Ponzi schemes. Do not invest more than you can afford to lose.

Pages: « 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 »
  Print  
Author Topic: RentalStarter - A Midwest Real Estate Investment Company  (Read 119459 times)
cusdog
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 50


View Profile
June 13, 2013, 02:35:03 AM
 #21

Yea, I would avoid the whole getting paid in BTC thing. I understand why people are trying to suggest some currency risk mitigation strategies, but it is just not feasible in this case. Anybody who invests in this should treat it as a regular investment in a REIT on the NYSE. I can appreciate that your mention of it was merely a response to others rather than something you were advocating.

Your description of your market is both fascinating and makes me jealous.  

With respect to rehab (and other) costs, the key is to develop a systematic approach that minimizes subjective judgements and can be followed consistently from one activity to another. My suggestion would be something like this:

Step 1: Does this activity fall under "management"? If yes, then do not charge for my time/labour as this is covered by the management fee.

Step 2: If it is not management, then determine if the activity can be performed by a 3rd party for which the costs can be easily and clearly identifiable (i.e. there is a well known market with clear prices).

Step 3a: If you answered yes to 2, then bill the company the identifiable price less a reasonable discount (say 10%-20%) to be conservative.

Step 3b: If you answered no to 2, then bill the company based on cost of supplies + a premium to cover labour. You should have a clear labour rate for most activities, something like $20/hr (or w.e.) setup from the start.

Just spit-balling some ideas.
1513300991
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513300991

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513300991
Reply with quote  #2

1513300991
Report to moderator
1513300991
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513300991

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513300991
Reply with quote  #2

1513300991
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1513300991
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513300991

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513300991
Reply with quote  #2

1513300991
Report to moderator
Branny
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 398


View Profile
June 13, 2013, 02:53:09 PM
 #22

Yea, I would avoid the whole getting paid in BTC thing. I understand why people are trying to suggest some currency risk mitigation strategies, but it is just not feasible in this case. Anybody who invests in this should treat it as a regular investment in a REIT on the NYSE. I can appreciate that your mention of it was merely a response to others rather than something you were advocating.

Your description of your market is both fascinating and makes me jealous. 

With respect to rehab (and other) costs, the key is to develop a systematic approach that minimizes subjective judgements and can be followed consistently from one activity to another. My suggestion would be something like this:

Step 1: Does this activity fall under "management"? If yes, then do not charge for my time/labour as this is covered by the management fee.

Step 2: If it is not management, then determine if the activity can be performed by a 3rd party for which the costs can be easily and clearly identifiable (i.e. there is a well known market with clear prices).

Step 3a: If you answered yes to 2, then bill the company the identifiable price less a reasonable discount (say 10%-20%) to be conservative.

Step 3b: If you answered no to 2, then bill the company based on cost of supplies + a premium to cover labour. You should have a clear labour rate for most activities, something like $20/hr (or w.e.) setup from the start.

Just spit-balling some ideas.

They sound good to me, i'll have to figure a way to incorporate them and/or add them on the design document.

Additionally, we're looking at using a 3rd party auditor/accountant to audit our books on a regular basis to provide additional transparency.


Additionally - One thing I'm looking at/considering is using this as the primary 1st round for the core company and no other share offers. I talked to ukto about this and what my concept is would be to have the core company @ 100k shares ($110k USD or so) , then for subsequent ventures, issue a bond that pays high daily interest in order to acquire-rehab-refinance larger properties that the initial cashflow/reinvestment can't deal with. This would increase shareholder equity quite a bit i think and would help us access larger capital pools.
cusdog
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 50


View Profile
June 13, 2013, 04:03:49 PM
 #23

Expanding your capital structure is a good idea. One suggestion I would have is that you make it clear to equity holders the seniority of bonds (if you decide to issue). I know it sounds obvious but there are varying levels of sophistication on here. I would also be a little wary of the fact that currency risk becomes a much bigger deal with bonds as compared to equity. I strongly suggest that you consider, at least, a soft BTC:USD peg on the bonds.

With respect to having a 3rd party audit, could you expand on what your expectations and goals for that would be?
Branny
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 398


View Profile
June 13, 2013, 06:42:26 PM
 #24

Expanding your capital structure is a good idea. One suggestion I would have is that you make it clear to equity holders the seniority of bonds (if you decide to issue). I know it sounds obvious but there are varying levels of sophistication on here. I would also be a little wary of the fact that currency risk becomes a much bigger deal with bonds as compared to equity. I strongly suggest that you consider, at least, a soft BTC:USD peg on the bonds.

With respect to having a 3rd party audit, could you expand on what your expectations and goals for that would be?

The idea is just to create more levels of transparency to break out from the rest of the BTC listed companies on the various exchanges who don't even prepare financial reports, let alone submit themselves to audits.
VJain
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 305


View Profile WWW
June 13, 2013, 07:01:50 PM
 #25

Following and willing to invest up to 2-5BTC. Simply to help the non-BTC companies get off the ground Smiley. Who knows, might become a poster-child for how to use BTC and BTC Micro-investment to get startups off the ground (non-tech related ones included).

Making Apps and Websites for people. I charge reasonable rates ($30-40/hour in BTC).
Branny
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 398


View Profile
June 14, 2013, 06:19:26 PM
 #26

Following and willing to invest up to 2-5BTC. Simply to help the non-BTC companies get off the ground Smiley. Who knows, might become a poster-child for how to use BTC and BTC Micro-investment to get startups off the ground (non-tech related ones included).


That would be great Smiley

I've been reading over many of these forum threads for other securities and it seems that many have not run a business before thus leading to major complications. Transparency is our goal (We need it with the other product we're developing on rentalstarter).
nebulus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 490


... it only gets better...


View Profile
June 15, 2013, 02:47:27 AM
 #27

Okay, can you please elaborate further on what you are offering.

Your website tells that the investors get 60% of the net income.
Does the deal includes real estate equity as well?

Thanks!

Branny
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 398


View Profile
June 15, 2013, 04:53:37 PM
 #28

Okay, can you please elaborate further on what you are offering.

Your website tells that the investors get 60% of the net income.
Does the deal includes real estate equity as well?

Thanks!


Investors have 100% equity in the company and subsequent real estate holdings. This includes equity in all the assets involved.
Branny
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 398


View Profile
June 24, 2013, 07:38:01 PM
 #29

Tried to make some of the verbiage clearer on the website and some other things at the request of ukto. Looks like we'll be able to list it in the next day or two.
ianp
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 238


View Profile
June 24, 2013, 07:45:24 PM
 #30

Are you still leaning toward bitfunder for the exchange?

cusdog
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 50


View Profile
June 24, 2013, 08:05:00 PM
 #31

Gone through the document again. A couple of points:

1) I am glad you have included disclosure re: management partaking in repairs and rehab, although I think you still need more clarity beyond merely "We promise not to charge too much".

2) It appears that your 10% management fee comes off the top. Therefore I suggest you rephrase your definition of "net income" to include it being post management fee expense.

3)There is a good chance that the FMV per share could very well change from block #1 to #2 to #3, etc. I think you need to flesh out how exactly your secondary offerings are going to be priced. I could imagine a scenario, for example, in which you issues block#1 then over the course of 2 months the shares drift downward, at which point you issue block #2 at the suppressed levels and dilute the hell out of the existing shareholders.

4) Your "Dissolution" section is a bit weak. First, I think you should drop this buyback @110 nonsense. It is way to easy for management to abuse such a clause especially if it is not weighted or a historical average. We are not talking about a bond here. Second, it is not feasible for shares to be converted into a direct ownership stake in the RE. For a big chunk of your investors located outside of the US, it is not even legal.

I have more comments, but this is enough for now.
Branny
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 398


View Profile
June 24, 2013, 08:35:27 PM
 #32

Are you still leaning toward bitfunder for the exchange?

Yes, may consider BTCT down the road.
Branny
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 398


View Profile
June 24, 2013, 08:40:57 PM
 #33

Gone through the document again. A couple of points:

1) I am glad you have included disclosure re: management partaking in repairs and rehab, although I think you still need more clarity beyond merely "We promise not to charge too much".

2) It appears that your 10% management fee comes off the top. Therefore I suggest you rephrase your definition of "net income" to include it being post management fee expense.

3)There is a good chance that the FMV per share could very well change from block #1 to #2 to #3, etc. I think you need to flesh out how exactly your secondary offerings are going to be priced. I could imagine a scenario, for example, in which you issues block#1 then over the course of 2 months the shares drift downward, at which point you issue block #2 at the suppressed levels and dilute the hell out of the existing shareholders.

4) Your "Dissolution" section is a bit weak. First, I think you should drop this buyback @110 nonsense. It is way to easy for management to abuse such a clause especially if it is not weighted or a historical average. We are not talking about a bond here. Second, it is not feasible for shares to be converted into a direct ownership stake in the RE. For a big chunk of your investors located outside of the US, it is not even legal.

I have more comments, but this is enough for now.

#1 - On the management sub-page it states it  can't be beyond normal rates locally. I'm not sure the best way to define this outside of procuring rehab prices from multiple contractors then averaging. That would take a good deal of time to do especially for small projects.

#2 - Changed the term

#3 - I've been trying to figure a good way to address this. One option i thought of was to list the company on BF as an absolute max of 100,000 shares with no second or 3rd generations. If additional funding is needed I then would list a similar asset on BTCT as a bond only (No equity rights) and use that as hard money while we obtain traditional financing. This would increase share value while avoiding any dilution with the core company.

#4 -I could do historical average but then it would be pretty easy to manipulate too.

You're right about direct ownership, it just won't work. Liquidation will be the only option.
Branny
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 398


View Profile
June 27, 2013, 06:19:51 PM
 #34

BF just approved our listing on BitFunder. A few items were changed but otherwise everything looks good. Please review terms as i haven't updated them on this thread (yet) but will do so shortly, or otherwise start a new thread here on bitcointalk.
Exocyst
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 266


Science!


View Profile
June 27, 2013, 06:28:49 PM
 #35

Very interesting idea Branny. Definitely one to watch.

nebulus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 490


... it only gets better...


View Profile
June 27, 2013, 07:30:34 PM
 #36

Why did the price per share ended up being 0.011 instead of 0.01?

Kushedout
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1143


SaluS - (SLS)


View Profile WWW
June 27, 2013, 07:35:47 PM
 #37

I'll say extra 10K sounds reasonable for the champagne, coke and bitches.

Never the less, I'll drop a BTC on this. I like the concept.

Branny
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 398


View Profile
June 27, 2013, 08:04:55 PM
 #38

Why did the price per share ended up being 0.011 instead of 0.01?

When we first were going to issue shares, the price was .01 @ $125 per BTC.

It's fluctuating between $95-$105 over the past few days , so I decided to issue at .011 to get a little closer to the $125k goal on 100k shares issued.

I'll say extra 10K sounds reasonable for the champagne, coke and bitches.

Never the less, I'll drop a BTC on this. I like the concept.

So far, I only have enough for half a day as Charlie Sheen.
MikkisJ
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 99


View Profile
June 27, 2013, 09:24:19 PM
 #39

In the description on BitFunder it says your first round is 50,000 shares, but in details page there are 70,000 issued shares. So you decided to sell 70,000 shares in the first round? And the second round will be 20,000 shares?

Also, what is the timeframe after you collect those $70,000? When will you buy property? How long after that to see dividends?
MikkisJ
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 99


View Profile
June 27, 2013, 09:34:10 PM
 #40

And other contradicting information is that you say on your webpage "We will be issuing a total of 200,000 shares with a approximate value of $1.25/ea (Or .01btc) –  (Total of $250,000 of investment) in blocks of 10,000 shares per generation."
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!