Bitcoin Town: Let's Make the Future Come to us

[cWq34#9tH-3]

OMG, I'm an exceptionally fast reader and I don't have anywhere near enough time to read all the "terms of service" contracts for all the software & services that I use. I hate it but I'm forced to "skim" many of them because there's just no friggin' way in hell that I could possibly read all that. The only way I could see this possibly working is if there was a standard rules agreement and people had to list where there rules deviated from that. Otherwise, it's just not happening baby - it's a pipe dream.

It's likely entire communities would adopt similar contracts, sort of like Blue Sky laws. Thus you'd only need to know what's common in that area and anywhere that points differ could be automatically pointed out for you.

Gee, maybe I should bring this idea up at the next home owners association meeting.  Having a slightly more restrictive set of laws, enforced by a small additional fee, that everyone agrees to when they buy in is such a novel concept.

Really, guys?

Tell me again how this scheme differs from what I am living in right now.  I have the US law, with the local state law (CA) layered on top of that.  Then the local county law and, in my case, the local homeowners association "rules".    If I don't like the HOA, I sell and buy elsewhere.  If I don't like the CA state laws, I move to a different state.  If I don't like the US law, I immigrate to a place with "better" laws like Cuba (free medical) or Pitcairn Island (age of consent is 16 or perhaps lower).  Personally, I like my current location better than my experiences in the Pacific Orient, Europe or the Middle East.

Awe TomUnderSea, you're silly.

But hey Anenome5, I think I'm starting to warm up to this idea. So how many communities will there be? Oh IDK, uh, say... how about 50 or so? And what will we call these communities?

[Anenome5]

OMG, I'm an exceptionally fast reader and I don't have anywhere near enough time to read all the "terms of service" contracts for all the software & services that I use. I hate it but I'm forced to "skim" many of them because there's just no friggin' way in hell that I could possibly read all that. The only way I could see this possibly working is if there was a standard rules agreement and people had to list where there rules deviated from that. Otherwise, it's just not happening baby - it's a pipe dream.

It's likely entire communities would adopt similar contracts, sort of like Blue Sky laws. Thus you'd only need to know what's common in that area and anywhere that points differ could be automatically pointed out for you.

Gee, maybe I should bring this idea up at the next home owners association meeting.  Having a slightly more restrictive set of laws, enforced by a small additional fee, that everyone agrees to when they buy in is such a novel concept.

Really, guys?

It's completely different from that, actually, even if the result is somewhat similar. Any society is going to have law, I'm proposing a radically different way to generate it.

Tell me again how this scheme differs from what I am living in right now.

Each person and property owner has 100% control over their legal circumstances; it is the ultimate form of individualism, each person a sovereign, no one can force anyone to adopt any particular law. That is extreeeeeemely different from the scheme you're living in now, so much as to make how you're living now appear to be at least a partial tyranny by contrast.

I have the US law, with the local state law (CA) layered on top of that.  Then the local county law and, in my case, the local homeowners association "rules".    If I don't like the HOA, I sell and buy elsewhere.  If I don't like the CA state laws, I move to a different state.

That's the big difference. If you don't like the law in such a society as what I propose you don't have to move. You simply toss off the law, remain in place, and propose a new law for yourself, and no one can stop you. Big difference.

[Anenome5]

OMG, I'm an exceptionally fast reader and I don't have anywhere near enough time to read all the "terms of service" contracts for all the software & services that I use. I hate it but I'm forced to "skim" many of them because there's just no friggin' way in hell that I could possibly read all that. The only way I could see this possibly working is if there was a standard rules agreement and people had to list where there rules deviated from that. Otherwise, it's just not happening baby - it's a pipe dream.

It's likely entire communities would adopt similar contracts, sort of like Blue Sky laws. Thus you'd only need to know what's common in that area and anywhere that points differ could be automatically pointed out for you.

Gee, maybe I should bring this idea up at the next home owners association meeting.  Having a slightly more restrictive set of laws, enforced by a small additional fee, that everyone agrees to when they buy in is such a novel concept.

Really, guys?

Tell me again how this scheme differs from what I am living in right now.  I have the US law, with the local state law (CA) layered on top of that.  Then the local county law and, in my case, the local homeowners association "rules".    If I don't like the HOA, I sell and buy elsewhere.  If I don't like the CA state laws, I move to a different state.  If I don't like the US law, I immigrate to a place with "better" laws like Cuba (free medical) or Pitcairn Island (age of consent is 16 or perhaps lower).  Personally, I like my current location better than my experiences in the Pacific Orient, Europe or the Middle East.

Awe TomUnderSea, you're silly.

But hey Anenome5, I think I'm starting to warm up to this idea. So how many communities will there be? Oh IDK, uh, say... how about 50 or so? And what will we call these communities?

50? I should say at least that many for an average sized community or town. Since this idea is designed to encourage as well as facilitate rapid legal evolution and experimentation, I would expect such communities to develop organically into whatever sizes are suitable and seem right to the people involved.

As for what to call them, I've begun calling them 'Tuatha' after the Irish name for independent communities which feature from their legal history as an independent nation.

I think communities would form along the lines of people's highest values in terms of how to live. There may be some who value quiet above all else, and they will form a community which caters to this value. That's virtually impossible in today's world outside being rich. Visitors to such areas would be asked to respect decorum and quiet as a condition of visitation. Since the streets would be privately owned as well, kicking out an offender is really easy compared to living in a modern city, where again, nothing short of being rich or rather well-off will get you a gated community. In a tuath, every community is effectively gated.

You might have a community of people on ketogenic diets, where the only food sold is extremely low-carb. Imagine that.

Naturally there would be communities stratified by age, by interest, party-going college-town type wild places where partying into the night is expected and celebrated and you'd never get the cops called on you.

You'd have large places where people raise families and look out for each others' kids in that way.

The possibilities of how to setup such places are really endless, and that's very exciting to me, to see what people would do with such a place.

Anyway, I've been quietly building a client program to facilitate this, to allow people to serve contracts to others effortlessly, using the web, and I call it "Bitlaw." Uses P2P messaging and decentralization to send out contracts either publicly or privately, allows instant editing of contracts and back-and-forth negotiation of contracts, digital sales receipts, and more.

Law is the last major bastion to escape the impact of the coming digital age. I intend to change all of that with Bitlaw and unleash a revolution of creative legal development.

I think of it as the revenge of individualism. 150 years ago the socialists believed socialism as a principle for ordering society would be an effective way to order economic affairs. They produced communism and it failed spectacularly to produce economic gains over the free market--which was intrinsically individualist.

Now I want to take the next step and introduce political individualism taken to its ultimate extreme--individual sovereignty as a social system.

This has never been tried before. It's going to change everything.

[cWq34#9tH-3]

OMG, I'm an exceptionally fast reader and I don't have anywhere near enough time to read all the "terms of service" contracts for all the software & services that I use. I hate it but I'm forced to "skim" many of them because there's just no friggin' way in hell that I could possibly read all that. The only way I could see this possibly working is if there was a standard rules agreement and people had to list where there rules deviated from that. Otherwise, it's just not happening baby - it's a pipe dream.

It's likely entire communities would adopt similar contracts, sort of like Blue Sky laws. Thus you'd only need to know what's common in that area and anywhere that points differ could be automatically pointed out for you.

Gee, maybe I should bring this idea up at the next home owners association meeting.  Having a slightly more restrictive set of laws, enforced by a small additional fee, that everyone agrees to when they buy in is such a novel concept.

Really, guys?

Tell me again how this scheme differs from what I am living in right now.  I have the US law, with the local state law (CA) layered on top of that.  Then the local county law and, in my case, the local homeowners association "rules".    If I don't like the HOA, I sell and buy elsewhere.  If I don't like the CA state laws, I move to a different state.  If I don't like the US law, I immigrate to a place with "better" laws like Cuba (free medical) or Pitcairn Island (age of consent is 16 or perhaps lower).  Personally, I like my current location better than my experiences in the Pacific Orient, Europe or the Middle East.

Awe TomUnderSea, you're silly.

But hey Anenome5, I think I'm starting to warm up to this idea. So how many communities will there be? Oh IDK, uh, say... how about 50 or so? And what will we call these communities?

50? I should say at least that many for an average sized community or town. Since this idea is designed to encourage as well as facilitate rapid legal evolution and experimentation, I would expect such communities to develop organically into whatever sizes are suitable and seem right to the people involved.

As for what to call them, I've begun calling them 'Tuatha' after the Irish name for independent communities which feature from their legal history as an independent nation.

I think communities would form along the lines of people's highest values in terms of how to live. There may be some who value quiet above all else, and they will form a community which caters to this value. That's virtually impossible in today's world outside being rich. Visitors to such areas would be asked to respect decorum and quiet as a condition of visitation. Since the streets would be privately owned as well, kicking out an offender is really easy compared to living in a modern city, where again, nothing short of being rich or rather well-off will get you a gated community. In a tuath, every community is effectively gated.

You might have a community of people on ketogenic diets, where the only food sold is extremely low-carb. Imagine that.

Naturally there would be communities stratified by age, by interest, party-going college-town type wild places where partying into the night is expected and celebrated and you'd never get the cops called on you.

You'd have large places where people raise families and look out for each others' kids in that way.

The possibilities of how to setup such places are really endless, and that's very exciting to me, to see what people would do with such a place.

Anyway, I've been quietly building a client program to facilitate this, to allow people to serve contracts to others effortlessly, using the web, and I call it "Bitlaw." Uses P2P messaging and decentralization to send out contracts either publicly or privately, allows instant editing of contracts and back-and-forth negotiation of contracts, digital sales receipts, and more.

Law is the last major bastion to escape the impact of the coming digital age. I intend to change all of that with Bitlaw and unleash a revolution of creative legal development.

I think of it as the revenge of individualism. 150 years ago the socialists believed socialism as a principle for ordering society would be an effective way to order economic affairs. They produced communism and it failed spectacularly to produce economic gains over the free market--which was intrinsically individualist.

Now I want to take the next step and introduce political individualism taken to its ultimate extreme--individual sovereignty as a social system.

This has never been tried before. It's going to change everything.

Anenome5, I was being sarcastic, meaning "50", as in 50 states. All kidding aside though (for now, hehe), something must be done and so why not try the way that gives each individual the maximum freedom? That really sounds appealing to me and towards my pursuits of life, liberty, and happiness. And so I really am starting to like the idea: it could become a great civilization - I mean after all the fighting and slaughtering of each other (over water & mineral & land rights and rights of way) dies down.

Love the bitlaw idea. Could you make one also for sexual agreements? That way when I pick up a hottie at the club - there's no possible legal repercussions later when she gets pissed when I tell her to go home.

BTW, how about a hitchhiker's agreement too? You could even make it so people had to register - and have online ratings & trust levels & ride reports: you could also enter the pickup details online, just in case the person you pick up turns out to be someone like that crazy cat-lady in here.

[Rassah]

Skimming through some of the posts here, I get the feeling that maybe instead of setting up a Bitcoin town, you guys should set up an INTJ/INTP town.

[Anenome5]

OMG, I'm an exceptionally fast reader and I don't have anywhere near enough time to read all the "terms of service" contracts for all the software & services that I use. I hate it but I'm forced to "skim" many of them because there's just no friggin' way in hell that I could possibly read all that. The only way I could see this possibly working is if there was a standard rules agreement and people had to list where there rules deviated from that. Otherwise, it's just not happening baby - it's a pipe dream.

It's likely entire communities would adopt similar contracts, sort of like Blue Sky laws. Thus you'd only need to know what's common in that area and anywhere that points differ could be automatically pointed out for you.

Gee, maybe I should bring this idea up at the next home owners association meeting.  Having a slightly more restrictive set of laws, enforced by a small additional fee, that everyone agrees to when they buy in is such a novel concept.

Really, guys?

Tell me again how this scheme differs from what I am living in right now.  I have the US law, with the local state law (CA) layered on top of that.  Then the local county law and, in my case, the local homeowners association "rules".    If I don't like the HOA, I sell and buy elsewhere.  If I don't like the CA state laws, I move to a different state.  If I don't like the US law, I immigrate to a place with "better" laws like Cuba (free medical) or Pitcairn Island (age of consent is 16 or perhaps lower).  Personally, I like my current location better than my experiences in the Pacific Orient, Europe or the Middle East.

Awe TomUnderSea, you're silly.

But hey Anenome5, I think I'm starting to warm up to this idea. So how many communities will there be? Oh IDK, uh, say... how about 50 or so? And what will we call these communities?

50? I should say at least that many for an average sized community or town. Since this idea is designed to encourage as well as facilitate rapid legal evolution and experimentation, I would expect such communities to develop organically into whatever sizes are suitable and seem right to the people involved.

As for what to call them, I've begun calling them 'Tuatha' after the Irish name for independent communities which feature from their legal history as an independent nation.

I think communities would form along the lines of people's highest values in terms of how to live. There may be some who value quiet above all else, and they will form a community which caters to this value. That's virtually impossible in today's world outside being rich. Visitors to such areas would be asked to respect decorum and quiet as a condition of visitation. Since the streets would be privately owned as well, kicking out an offender is really easy compared to living in a modern city, where again, nothing short of being rich or rather well-off will get you a gated community. In a tuath, every community is effectively gated.

You might have a community of people on ketogenic diets, where the only food sold is extremely low-carb. Imagine that.

Naturally there would be communities stratified by age, by interest, party-going college-town type wild places where partying into the night is expected and celebrated and you'd never get the cops called on you.

You'd have large places where people raise families and look out for each others' kids in that way.

The possibilities of how to setup such places are really endless, and that's very exciting to me, to see what people would do with such a place.

Anyway, I've been quietly building a client program to facilitate this, to allow people to serve contracts to others effortlessly, using the web, and I call it "Bitlaw." Uses P2P messaging and decentralization to send out contracts either publicly or privately, allows instant editing of contracts and back-and-forth negotiation of contracts, digital sales receipts, and more.

Law is the last major bastion to escape the impact of the coming digital age. I intend to change all of that with Bitlaw and unleash a revolution of creative legal development.

I think of it as the revenge of individualism. 150 years ago the socialists believed socialism as a principle for ordering society would be an effective way to order economic affairs. They produced communism and it failed spectacularly to produce economic gains over the free market--which was intrinsically individualist.

Now I want to take the next step and introduce political individualism taken to its ultimate extreme--individual sovereignty as a social system.

This has never been tried before. It's going to change everything.

Anenome5, I was being sarcastic, meaning "50", as in 50 states. All kidding aside though (for now, hehe), something must be done and so why not try the way that gives each individual the maximum freedom? That really sounds appealing to me and towards my pursuits of life, liberty, and happiness. And so I really am starting to like the idea: it could become a great civilization - I mean after all the fighting and slaughtering of each other (over water & mineral & land rights and rights of way) dies down.

Love the bitlaw idea. Could you make one also for sexual agreements? That way when I pick up a hottie at the club - there's no possible legal repercussions later when she gets pissed when I tell her to go home.

BTW, how about a hitchhiker's agreement too? You could even make it so people had to register - and have online ratings & trust levels & ride reports: you could also enter the pickup details online, just in case the person you pick up turns out to be someone like that crazy cat-lady in here.

Ah yeah, I'm so far outside the state-paradigm it didn't even occur to me

Historically nothing was run on the level or size of a state. You had city-states, not nations, and people considered themselves, for example, Venetians not Italians.

I think my idea would constitute largely a return to local power, indeed the most local power, the individual, and would bring down national governments entirely.

My life will be a failure if I don't make it happen in my lifetime on some small scale at least, a seed for the spring of humanity.

[cWq34#9tH-3]

I was actually considering this anarchism idea, but then I found out about "slab city" - touted as the last free city on earth. Google it (especially for pics) and tell me - isn't this what would happen in an anarchist society? And if not, why not?

[Rassah]

I was actually considering this anarchism idea, but then I found out about "slab city" - touted as the last free city on earth. Google it (especially for pics) and tell me - isn't this what would happen in an anarchist society? And if not, why not?

Can I do any of the following in Slab City?:

* Purchase land to establish a permanent residence, business location, or easement for utilities such as power lines and water pipes
* Open a bank for savings and investments that can finance development projects
* Open a business without having to submit paperwork that lets someone else tell me if I'm allowed to open it
* Build housing, business, and industrial facilities wherever I think they would be best located
* Provide private security to keep the peace and keep the area clean


If no, then it's not a "free city." And since slab city is still in US government property, that means that it is still subject to all the rules, regulations, and restrictions as any other city. Basically all the restrictions and regulations of government, and none of the benefits.

[cWq34#9tH-3]

I was actually considering this anarchism idea, but then I found out about "slab city" - touted as the last free city on earth. Google it (especially for pics) and tell me - isn't this what would happen in an anarchist society? And if not, why not?

Can I do any of the following in Slab City?:

* Purchase land to establish a permanent residence, business location, or easement for utilities such as power lines and water pipes
* Open a bank for savings and investments that can finance development projects
* Open a business without having to submit paperwork that lets someone else tell me if I'm allowed to open it
* Build housing, business, and industrial facilities wherever I think they would be best located
* Provide private security to keep the peace and keep the area clean


If no, then it's not a "free city." And since slab city is still in US government property, that means that it is still subject to all the rules, regulations, and restrictions as any other city. Basically all the restrictions and regulations of government, and none of the benefits.

Sure it's not completely free, however, it's the "free-ist" that we have: besides is or has anywhere ever been completely free? Even a city such as the one that your questions presuppose  - it would not be free if any of your desired answers were in the positive.

[Mike Christ]

Sure it's not completely free, however, it's the "free-ist" that we have: besides is or has anywhere ever been completely free? Even a city such as the one that your questions presuppose  - it would not be free if any of your desired answers were in the positive.

I'll consider a way of life free when I am no more a slave to my good conscious as any other man; if there's someone above the law, you're not free, only the person above that law is ever truly free.  There was a time where there was freedom, but you likely wouldn't want to live in it

[EscrowBTC]

Bitcoin town?
Amazing!

[Rassah]

Sure it's not completely free, however, it's the "free-ist" that we have: besides is or has anywhere ever been completely free? Even a city such as the one that your questions presuppose  - it would not be free if any of your desired answers were in the positive.

How free is it, really, when no one is even able to own and develop the land they park their RV on? It's free, and it looks like an undeveloped craphole precisely because no one is allowed to develop it.

[cWq34#9tH-3]

Sure it's not completely free, however, it's the "free-ist" that we have: besides is or has anywhere ever been completely free? Even a city such as the one that your questions presuppose  - it would not be free if any of your desired answers were in the positive.

How free is it, really, when no one is even able to own and develop the land they park their RV on? It's free, and it looks like an undeveloped craphole precisely because no one is allowed to develop it.

I was about to concede that one point but then a couple thoughts hit me: 1. Actually they have done all sorts of crazy construction there. 2. And even if it's illegal...why would they shit all over the place that they live?

[Mike Christ]

I was about to concede that one point but then a couple thoughts hit me: 1. Actually they have done all sorts of crazy construction there. 2. And even if it's illegal...why would they shit all over the place that they live?

They wouldn't.  But government is not about what makes sense, it's about governance.

[Rassah]

I was about to concede that one point but then a couple thoughts hit me: 1. Actually they have done all sorts of crazy construction there. 2. And even if it's illegal...why would they shit all over the place that they live?

Don't forget that people and cultures are different, too. An anarchist biker gang town would look radically different from an anarchist high class society town/gated community.

[cWq34#9tH-3]

I was about to concede that one point but then a couple thoughts hit me: 1. Actually they have done all sorts of crazy construction there. 2. And even if it's illegal...why would they shit all over the place that they live?

Don't forget that people and cultures are different, too. An anarchist biker gang town would look radically different from an anarchist high class society town/gated community.

Good Point! Agreed....

[cWq34#9tH-3]

Libertarianism: everyone is a rational actor, always. We shot all the people with mental illnesses.

Not so.  Mentally ill people already take medication, and those who commit crime are treated like most any other person; this does not change, no matter what system you live under.  Though Libertarians may generally be rational, they should not assume all people of the world will always be rational.  Are you one of those irrational people?  If not, don't worry about them; they already figured out how to get by now, they'll figure it out any other way.  If you are, you should already know how you're getting along now.

The only way I could see this possibly working is if there was a standard rules agreement and people had to list where there rules deviated from that.

We already have that; just list everything you don't like to happen to you, and then don't do that to other people.  Ta-da; it may seem surprising, but most people generally don't like the same things.  If you want a really simplified version of this:

1. Don't fuck with people.
2. Don't get fucked.

You are absolutely correct @Mike Christ.

Although many of us disagree on details - the vast majority agree on the major issues. And that gives me hope. Now if we can just somehow (and please, dear God don't anyone suggest voting or protesting) get rid of the dangerous criminals in congress... people who are really just bought/paid for mafia type "capos" working for the corporations... and then maybe, just maybe... we can begin to restore our democracy.

[pisces1999]

What is the point of making a town inside of the US? You would still have to follow federal and state law, which defeats the purpose.

[Anenome5]

What is the point of making a town inside of the US? You would still have to follow federal and state law, which defeats the purpose.

Correct, thus /r/seasteading

[FinShaggy]

My brother died, and I kinda fell off the face of the internet. But this project is delayed, not destroyed.