⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All

[theskillzdatklls]

At first, I thought it was a new thread that got some decent replies. But then I saw it was created back in 2017. Guess what? Six years running since the thread was created, and I can see only a few numbers of websites were verified by https://cryptogambling.org/. I don't know why the numbers are not increasing after passing a few years. Only fourteen websites were verified by them, while a couple is under the same ownership. Stake and Primedice, Onehash and Cyberdice, Bitkong, Simpledice and LuckyDice under the same ownership. So, seven of them come from three owners. If I am not wrong, Onehash announced they wouldn't continue their service. After six years of creation, Only fourteen websites have been verified, which is somewhat scarry.

Yeah.. kind of felt that way. I don't want to speak out of turn since I might be wrong, it was so long ago, but I think I tried to get MintDice on there, a provably fair casino that fits the requirements. I think I was ignored (though I could be wrong).

In general, I think the idea of this foundation is a very good one. Inform people of the importance of provably fair options and to keep things open and transparent whenever possible. Which the vast majority of casinos don't abide by.

But if there's no real process to get in... it's kind of worthless.

That's precisely what I was talking about. Back then, there were fewer casino platforms.
But the situation now is not like before. We see new casinos pop up every few days, and they claim their platform using provably fair technology. Either they don't know about the Crypto gambling Foundation, Or they choose not to verify their games.

I am wondering, Does the Crypto gambling Foundation Invite other casinos to verify their games? They have to spread their existence among the casino industries. If Casino companies don't know that there are such platform where they can verify their games, I won't blame casinos for not knowing the existence of the Crypto gambling Foundation.

I have a very bad speculative guess. And that's that they were very principled in the beginning. As most crypto people were. Libertarian, free market, open/transparent, provably fair, etc. And then a new barrage of casinos were coming online that were only using pre-made third party closed source non-provably fair games. And they were concerned about their market share getting eaten up. So they created the foundation as a way to inform the public and not get over run by bad actors.

But then time passed, concerns changed, overall care was diluted and the project was largely forgotten.

Stake makes so much money right now I doubt this foundation means much of anything to them now vs 2017. Priorities changed.

It would be cool if a new one opened up by people that actually cared to run it that had some previous reputation in being able to run such a thing. Perhaps that foundation could charge a small annual fee to be part of it. And then that foundation would maintain a website, maintain their active roster, and promote their casino list on BitcoinTalk and other places.

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[Lida93]

At first, I thought it was a new thread that got some decent replies. But then I saw it was created back in 2017. Guess what? Six years running since the thread was created, and I can see only a few numbers of websites were verified by https://cryptogambling.org/. I don't know why the numbers are not increasing after passing a few years. Only fourteen websites were verified by them, while a couple is under the same ownership. Stake and Primedice, Onehash and Cyberdice, Bitkong, Simpledice and LuckyDice under the same ownership. So, seven of them come from three owners. If I am not wrong, Onehash announced they wouldn't continue their service. After six years of creation, Only fourteen websites have been verified, which is somewhat scarry.

Yes, there is definitely something odd with the Crypto Gambling Foundation!

However, I was fallen into their trap!

Huh?
What trap are you talking about? We are talking about other casinos that never show interest to be a part of the Crypto Gambling Foundation. If any casinos have an unfair game, they won't join the crypto Gambling foundation for sure. They don't want to get exposed. If any casino wants to join them, they have to verify their games with Crypto Gambling Foundation. At least that's what I understood so far. I don't know if Crypto Gambling Foundation take any steps to invite casinos to join them. But, it's very sad that casinos did not dare to check the fairness of their games from a 3rd party.

It's obvious BlackyJacky is out of point with the main debate on ground. Perhaps he's oblivion of the discussion on ground. Haven said that, i think Crypto Gambling Foundation needs to do more in their bid to sanitize the gambling casinos  off unfair games practices. Today we have more and more new casino's flocking in with the expression of probable fair games which we the gamblers can't easily establish such to be true and that's why CGF needs to expand their invitation to these new casinos for them to be verified of the fairness of some of their games as claimed.  Maybe those casinos that refuse the invitation can be listed through a thread y CGF or under this very post to keep interested gamblers abreast with those gambling websites that are suspected with unfair games.

[o48o]

What kind of evidence do you have that this license is not suitable for casinos which wish to manage their gamblers' Bitcoin?

I am in possession of the 8048/JAZ license.  

Well this is awkward, did BlackyJacky just by bragging accidentally admit a motive behind all this fud?

Running your own casino would be quite obvious one but i didn't think any other casino fudding competition could be this transparent. Focusing on baseless fud must be working on some level, otherwise they wouldn't be using their time by fudding other casinos in here.

But as we see they are struggling. Or maaybe they just don't have enough customers to keep them busy and got ton of free time. Who knows.

[Hispo]

What kind of evidence do you have that this license is not suitable for casinos which wish to manage their gamblers' Bitcoin?

I am in possession of the 8048/JAZ license.  

Well this is awkward, did BlackyJacky just by bragging accidentally admit a motive behind all this fud?

Running your own casino would be quite obvious one but i didn't think any other casino fudding competition could be this transparent. Focusing on baseless fud must be working on some level, otherwise they wouldn't be using their time by fudding other casinos in here.

But as we see they are struggling. Or maaybe they just don't have enough customers to keep them busy and got ton of free time. Who knows.

I mean, I know that some businesses of all kind can opt to sow FUD onto the community against competitors, but I personally doubt this person actually owns a casino or has a high position in one.

It would be more likely if he just managed to get some information in PDF about the license and feels he owns privileged information.
There is also a chance this is a FUD campaign targeted against specific casinos, but it is not as likely as the former explanation.

there have been people trying to explain to him several times how his calculations seem to be wrong and yet does not offer further mathematical counter-points...   

[TwitchySeal]

What kind of evidence do you have that this license is not suitable for casinos which wish to manage their gamblers' Bitcoin?

I am in possession of the 8048/JAZ license.  

Well this is awkward, did BlackyJacky just by bragging accidentally admit a motive behind all this fud?

Running your own casino would be quite obvious one but i didn't think any other casino fudding competition could be this transparent. Focusing on baseless fud must be working on some level, otherwise they wouldn't be using their time by fudding other casinos in here.

But as we see they are struggling. Or maaybe they just don't have enough customers to keep them busy and got ton of free time. Who knows.

I mean, I know that some businesses of all kind can opt to sow FUD onto the community against competitors, but I personally doubt this person actually owns a casino or has a high position in one.

It would be more likely if he just managed to get some information in PDF about the license and feels he owns privileged information.
There is also a chance this is a FUD campaign targeted against specific casinos, but it is not as likely as the former explanation.

there have been people trying to explain to him several times how his calculations seem to be wrong and yet does not offer further mathematical counter-points...   

He just lost a bunch of money and then got banned for doing something shady.  He's just trying to get back at Stake, and just keeps making a fool of himself, which makes him more angry...it's a vicious circle. 

[BlackyJacky]

What kind of evidence do you have that this license is not suitable for casinos which wish to manage their gamblers' Bitcoin?

I am in possession of the 8048/JAZ license.  

Well this is awkward, did BlackyJacky just by bragging accidentally admit a motive behind all this fud?

Running your own casino would be quite obvious one but i didn't think any other casino fudding competition could be this transparent. Focusing on baseless fud must be working on some level, otherwise they wouldn't be using their time by fudding other casinos in here.

But as we see they are struggling. Or maaybe they just don't have enough customers to keep them busy and got ton of free time. Who knows.

I mean, I know that some businesses of all kind can opt to sow FUD onto the community against competitors, but I personally doubt this person actually owns a casino or has a high position in one.

It would be more likely if he just managed to get some information in PDF about the license and feels he owns privileged information.
There is also a chance this is a FUD campaign targeted against specific casinos, but it is not as likely as the former explanation.

there have been people trying to explain to him several times how his calculations seem to be wrong and yet does not offer further mathematical counter-points...  

My calculation is 100% correct:

0,5% house edge means that I win 49.75% of all bets placed and lose 50.25% of all bets placed.

181,000 bets x 49.75% = 90,048 wins

181,000 bets x 50.25% = 90,953 losses

The difference between wins and losses is 905 bets, means after 181,000 bets I will statistically lose 905 bets.

But my Stake statistics states that I lost 8,327 bets!!!

Bets: 180,904 | Wins: 78,285 | Losses: 86,612 = 8,327 more losses

Proof: https://ibb.co/Hxf8NpR


TwitchySeal is too stupid to diversify between games played and bets made!

However, the 8048/JAZ license Stake claims to operate under clearly diversifies between games played and bets made.

Article 16

1. The license holder keeps a daily overview of the games of chance played, the number of times each game has been played, the bets made and the prize money achieved.

2. The data referred to in the first paragraph will be stored in a proper manner during the period that company data must be stored pursuant to the National Ordinance on Profit Tax 1940 (P.B. 1965, no. 58).

[TwitchySeal]

My calculation is 100% correct:

0,5% house edge means that I win 49.75% of all bets placed and lose 50.25% of all bets placed.

Yes that's just not the calculation for black jack.  Here's the calculation for blackjack with very similar rules as stake, and an even lower house edge (.28%)


https://wizardofodds.com/ask-the-wizard/blackjack/probability/

These numbers are from Michael Shackleford

Who's that?

Glad you asked.

Michael Shackleford is an American mathematician and an actuary. He is best known for his professional analysis of the mathematics of the casino games. He is also an adjunct professor of actuarial science and mathematics at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas.[2][3] He became interested in the mathematics of gambling at a young age after reading John Scarne's Guide to Casino Gambling.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Shackleford



It must not feel good to realize how wrong you've been this whole time while lacking the character to admit you were wrong.

[Crypt0Gore]

I have played some roullete and slots this week and I lost all the gamble, I use what I could afford but that's not even why I make this comment.

Is there anything in the gambling space called fair? I don't believe that fair gambling exists, because I've tried some gambling this week and I just keep losing, I got some free rolls too and I keep losing, I seem that gambling slots are wired in such a way that gamblers will lose more than the owners if this is right why are some gamblers saying the word Fair in gambling, I believe such don't exists and I don't want to believe that I am the worse gambler.

[John Abraham]

But then time passed, concerns changed, overall care was diluted and the project was largely forgotten.
Stake makes so much money right now I doubt this foundation means much of anything to them now vs 2017. Priorities changed.

Does the Stake owner solely found it? I am not sure. Since OP is Stunna, I thought he created this ANN on their behalf of them. If the initiatives come from Stake, That's a good idea from them. When you create a platform and your concern and Priority change over the years because you are already the king, it's not good.

I believe you got my point. It will look like Stake created this platform to make sure other platforms use provably fair technology so they cannot take advantage. Now Stake becomes a whale in the casino Industry. But, if this is the main reason of abandoning the Crypto Gambling Foundation. That's selfish.

[BlackyJacky]

My calculation is 100% correct:

0,5% house edge means that I win 49.75% of all bets placed and lose 50.25% of all bets placed.

Yes that's just not the calculation for black jack.  Here's the calculation for blackjack with very similar rules as stake, and an even lower house edge (.28%)

https://i.snipboard.io/b8rzLT.jpg
https://wizardofodds.com/ask-the-wizard/blackjack/probability/

These numbers are from Michael Shackleford

Who's that?

Glad you asked.

Michael Shackleford is an American mathematician and an actuary. He is best known for his professional analysis of the mathematics of the casino games. He is also an adjunct professor of actuarial science and mathematics at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas.[2][3] He became interested in the mathematics of gambling at a young age after reading John Scarne's Guide to Casino Gambling.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Shackleford

It must not feel good to realize how wrong you've been this whole time while lacking the character to admit you were wrong.

Michael Shackleford published the "Summarized Net Win of games in BlackJack" and not the summarized net win of bets.

In a game where you can place only one bet per game and where you can lose or win only one bet per game, the statistic of how many games you won and lost is exactly your experienced house edge.

However, and as I explained to you earlier, in a game where you can place multiple bets within one game (double, split) and with a 1,5 payout in case of a won Black Jack, your experienced house edge is determined by how many bets you lost per 100 bets.

If you lost 0,5 bets per 100 bets, which is the case when you won 49,75% and lost 50,25% of your bets, then your experienced house edge is 0,5%.

If the advertised house edge is 0,5%, like in the case of the Stake in-house Black Jack, then long term you will lose 0,5% of the bets placed.

If the house edge is 0%, then you will win 50% of the bets placed and will lose 50% of the bets placed long term.

Your experienced edge is always determined by the number of bets won and number of bets lost.

If the Statistics states that you lost 4,6% of the bets placed long term while the advertised house edge is 0,5%, then either the game is rigged or the statistic is rigged or both!

In either case, Stake is at fault here and has to settle the issue, instead they ignore!

[Mr. Magkaisa]

    -  I just saw skill-based slots, in fairness it's quite attractive when you go there in person because you seem to appreciate playing and touching it more because it's beautiful and makes me say the word WOW!

All I know is that the slot is the one I played here in crypto gambling, not what it looks like, what's in the picture you gave, is that an article?...

[TwitchySeal]

In a game where you can place only one bet per game and where you can lose or win only one bet per game, the statistic of how many games you won and lost is exactly your experienced house edge.

However, and as I explained to you earlier, in a game where you can place multiple bets within one game (double, split) and with a 1,5 payout in case of a won Black Jack, your experienced house edge is determined by how many bets you lost per 100 bets.

Your stats show the total number of games you idiot.  This has already been explained to you and if you actually don't believe it all you have to do is go look in your bet archive.  One bet id = 1 hand.  They could call the stat "bets". "games", "rounds", it doesn't matter.  It's obvious to any normal person with a few brain cells and if it weren't obvious all you have to do is check and see for yourself.

To determine your ROI (which you use the idiotic term "experienced house edge" for) you need to calculate

Code:

(total won/total wagered) * 100 = Return On Investment

 You can not make this calculation using only the stats Stake gives you under "statistics" since it doesn't include either of these numbers.

[Hispo]

What kind of evidence do you have that this license is not suitable for casinos which wish to manage their gamblers' Bitcoin?

I am in possession of the 8048/JAZ license.  

Well this is awkward, did BlackyJacky just by bragging accidentally admit a motive behind all this fud?

Running your own casino would be quite obvious one but i didn't think any other casino fudding competition could be this transparent. Focusing on baseless fud must be working on some level, otherwise they wouldn't be using their time by fudding other casinos in here.

But as we see they are struggling. Or maaybe they just don't have enough customers to keep them busy and got ton of free time. Who knows.

I mean, I know that some businesses of all kind can opt to sow FUD onto the community against competitors, but I personally doubt this person actually owns a casino or has a high position in one.

It would be more likely if he just managed to get some information in PDF about the license and feels he owns privileged information.
There is also a chance this is a FUD campaign targeted against specific casinos, but it is not as likely as the former explanation.

there have been people trying to explain to him several times how his calculations seem to be wrong and yet does not offer further mathematical counter-points...   

He just lost a bunch of money and then got banned for doing something shady.  He's just trying to get back at Stake, and just keeps making a fool of himself, which makes him more angry...it's a vicious circle. 

If that is the case, this whole situation is rather weird and bizarre.
In the board alone there must be hundreds of people who have lost money to a casino (some of them even open threads and openly admit it in order to vent their emotions) and this is the first time I have seen someone consistently trying to damage the reputation of a casino.

As far as I get it, the problem here is that he is trying to calculate the house edge, disregarding the skill/decision making that comes with blackjack, isn't it?

[len01]

If that is the case, this whole situation is rather weird and bizarre.
In the board alone there must be hundreds of people who have lost money to a casino (some of them even open threads and openly admit it in order to vent their emotions) and this is the first time I have seen someone consistently trying to damage the reputation of a casino.

As far as I get it, the problem here is that he is trying to calculate the house edge, disregarding the skill/decision making that comes with blackjack, isn't it?

maybe @BlackyJacky is a guy who needs to take a break from the world of gambling, he is quite emotional in gambling because in some ANN some casinos always see him.

yes, @BlackyJacky loses several arguments with @TwitchySeal. and he gets even angrier every time he loses talking to @TwitchySeal.

even though TwitchySeal has explained all the details about how House Edge works but BlackyJacky disagrees and always ignores the fact.

[tusandii]

I have played some roullete and slots this week and I lost all the gamble, I use what I could afford but that's not even why I make this comment.

Is there anything in the gambling space called fair? I don't believe that fair gambling exists, because I've tried some gambling this week and I just keep losing, I got some free rolls too and I keep losing, I seem that gambling slots are wired in such a way that gamblers will lose more than the owners if this is right why are some gamblers saying the word Fair in gambling, I believe such don't exists and I don't want to believe that I am the worse gambler.

If you say justice in gambling there may be because gambling covers many aspects such as casinos, bets, games and gamblers here what kind of justice do you want to ask.
From all that, only a casino or a place for someone to play or bet can provide justice to every gambler who becomes their customer.
If what you want to know and demand justice for every game in the casino, because you have lost several times, you will never get it.
Casinos can be fair on all games but fair in the sense of giving RTP or Rakeback to gamblers who bet in a game so that gamblers get at least a fraction of the amount of money wagered.

[BlackyJacky]

What kind of evidence do you have that this license is not suitable for casinos which wish to manage their gamblers' Bitcoin?

I am in possession of the 8048/JAZ license.  

Well this is awkward, did BlackyJacky just by bragging accidentally admit a motive behind all this fud?

Running your own casino would be quite obvious one but i didn't think any other casino fudding competition could be this transparent. Focusing on baseless fud must be working on some level, otherwise they wouldn't be using their time by fudding other casinos in here.

But as we see they are struggling. Or maaybe they just don't have enough customers to keep them busy and got ton of free time. Who knows.

I mean, I know that some businesses of all kind can opt to sow FUD onto the community against competitors, but I personally doubt this person actually owns a casino or has a high position in one.

It would be more likely if he just managed to get some information in PDF about the license and feels he owns privileged information.
There is also a chance this is a FUD campaign targeted against specific casinos, but it is not as likely as the former explanation.

there have been people trying to explain to him several times how his calculations seem to be wrong and yet does not offer further mathematical counter-points...  

He just lost a bunch of money and then got banned for doing something shady.  He's just trying to get back at Stake, and just keeps making a fool of himself, which makes him more angry...it's a vicious circle.  

If that is the case, this whole situation is rather weird and bizarre.
In the board alone there must be hundreds of people who have lost money to a casino (some of them even open threads and openly admit it in order to vent their emotions) and this is the first time I have seen someone consistently trying to damage the reputation of a casino.

I am rich and do not have any problem to lose the advertised house edge.

But I do not accept that the advertised house edge is 0,5% and my Statistics state that I lost 4,6% of the bets placed!

As far as I get it, the problem here is that he is trying to calculate the house edge, disregarding the skill/decision making that comes with blackjack, isn't it?

No, I played the perfect drawing strategy suggested by Edward.


@Hispo

Can you please ask your employer to show their license to operate a crypto currency online casino?

[TwitchySeal]

As far as I get it, the problem here is that he is trying to calculate the house edge, disregarding the skill/decision making that comes with blackjack, isn't it?

The problem is he's being willfully ignorant because there's no evidence that he was cheated, but he really wants to convince people that he was (because he lost and I think his account was frozen for some reason).



Stake provides very basic statistics in each players profile.  Total bets, total number of bets won, total number of bets lost, and total amount wagered for each currency.  It doesn't include total amount won - just the total number of bets won



BlackyJacky is trying to claim that the stats represent how many units he has wagered.  For example, if he doubles and loses, that's two bets made, both considered lost bets.  This is not how it works.  

The way it does work is each round counts as 1 bet and has a unique bet id with it's own bet history.  If he profits overall for the round, that's 1 winning bet.  It doesn't matter if you split, double down, win even money, or hit a blackjack for 3-2.  One round counts as one bet in the stats.

So he's trying to claim that his stats can be used to determine his ROI (which he calls "expected RTP"), which is not possible.  To calculate your ROI, you need to know how much money you wagered, and how much money you won.  The stats don't include how much money was won, so we can't make the calculation.

Also worth mentioning,  even if he was correct about everything above (he's not), his calculation would only be accurate if all ~181,000 bets made from his account were the exact same amount.  Never increasing or decreasing his wager.  And they would have to be all black jack, no other games.



I believe he realized he was wrong a while ago and is just spreading lies out of a combination of spite and ego.  Shameful really.

[serjent05]

But I do not accept that the advertised house edge is 0,5% and my Statistics state that I lost 4,6% of the bets placed!

I think you can lose more than that even without the house edge, you can simulate a dice with a 50/50 chance of winnings and see that the percentage result won't be 0% loss.  Gambling is random and each roll is independent of the other.  So with a house edge of 0.5%, it does not mean that you will only have an accumulated loss of 0.5%.  Losses will accumulate and will start to grow as you play.  The longer you play the bigger the discrepancy between the house edge and the percentage loss.

[BlackyJacky]

Stake support says "Statistics" states the number of total bets made

https://ibb.co/SQdVCF6

TwitchySeal says "Statistics" states the number of total games played.

Number of games played and number of bets made is not the same!

Who is lying?

[BlackyJacky]

But I do not accept that the advertised house edge is 0,5% and my Statistics state that I lost 4,6% of the bets placed!

I think you can lose more than that even without the house edge, you can simulate a dice with a 50/50 chance of winnings and see that the percentage result won't be 0% loss.  Gambling is random and each roll is independent of the other.  So with a house edge of 0.5%, it does not mean that you will only have an accumulated loss of 0.5%.  Losses will accumulate and will start to grow as you play.  The longer you play the bigger the discrepancy between the house edge and the percentage loss.

Thank you for adding your nonsense, but the longer you play the smaller is the discrepancy between the house edge and the percentage loss.


@ serjent05

Please ask your employer to show their license to operate a crypto currency online casino?