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Author Topic: Power cost for mining  (Read 1151 times)
Dannymax333
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September 17, 2017, 01:06:01 PM
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Hi was thinking about maybe starting to mine altcoins the only problem is would you say 0.07 USD per KHw is to expensive?
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September 17, 2017, 01:16:09 PM
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I pay 0.19 USD per KHw and mine Equihash and even with the market down I'm making $3 a day profit.  With that being said, getting your rig capital back went from @ 100ish days a few months ago to over a year now--provided coin value doesn't go up.

check out whattomine.com and choose what cards you'll be using at the top then plug in your power cost near the bottom and see what it shows...
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September 17, 2017, 01:46:36 PM
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I pay 0.19 USD per KHw and mine Equihash and even with the market down I'm making $3 a day profit.

If you are saying $3 per day with 1 graphics card then I must say that your are the greatest liar ever, not even with 1 x gtx 1080 ti which you pay $700 - $800 makes $3 per day and it is the best card for mining to date, I just checked whattomine and it says 1 gtx 1080 ti $1.24 profit with electricity paid mining equihash, so where is the $3 per day you said is beyond me, see that is why people start get in mining cause you trolls are liars about the profit you are making, now tell me whatthehell did you say that? do you have a mental brain problem, illness or that kind sort?

And by the way, at the current price, $750 for a gtx 1080 ti divided by $1.24 = 604.8 days to get your money back, that is almost 2 years and if we also add other parts of the equipment for example motherboard, cpu and other things that will make the target to get back around $900 per card which the true value to get back is $850 divided 1.24 = 685.4 days to get your money invested back, so meaning mining is the worse thing to do right now. Go buy coins and hold, trust me you will earn a lot more money doing it without hassle.
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September 17, 2017, 02:25:03 PM
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I pay 0.19 USD per KHw and mine Equihash and even with the market down I'm making $3 a day profit.

If you are saying $3 per day with 1 graphics card then I must say that your are the greatest liar ever, not even with 1 x gtx 1080 ti which you pay $700 - $800 makes $3 per day and it is the best card for mining to date, I just checked whattomine and it says 1 gtx 1080 ti $1.24 profit with electricity paid mining equihash, so where is the $3 per day you said is beyond me, see that is why people start get in mining cause you trolls are liars about the profit you are making, now tell me whatthehell did you say that? do you have a mental brain problem, illness or that kind sort?

And by the way, at the current price, $750 for a gtx 1080 ti divided by $1.24 = 604.8 days to get your money back, that is almost 2 years and if we also add other parts of the equipment for example motherboard, cpu and other things that will make the target to get back around $900 per card which the true value to get back is $850 divided 1.24 = 685.4 days to get your money invested back, so meaning mining is the worse thing to do right now. Go buy coins and hold, trust me you will earn a lot more money doing it without hassle.

what is it with the angry replies on this forum, where did you get one GPU from?  I've got 5 x 1070s.  I answered the OPs question with his concern with electricity and brought up the hardware ROI.  You apparently have the mental brain problem as you read into things that are simply not there.
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September 17, 2017, 02:27:45 PM
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If your electricity bill is USD0.07 per kw, then it is quite good for mining. And in order to save more power cost, you can under-volt your gpu.
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September 17, 2017, 02:55:44 PM
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I've got 5 x 1070s.  I answered the OPs question with his concern with electricity and brought up the hardware ROI.

You should have put how many cards cause usually people think is just one gpu cause $3 per card used to be few weeks ago and when people say without putting how many cards then other people think is just 1 gpu.
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September 17, 2017, 03:25:45 PM
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so now you are dictating what should be standard responses to questions? 

Look at the ops original question, he was asking about power costs...there's nothing about GPUs mentioned.

ultimately you will try to justify your angry reply, but there are several ppl like yourself that have "issues".
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September 17, 2017, 03:34:56 PM
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so now you are dictating what should be standard responses to questions?  


I'm not dictating anything, I'm just saying your answer was incomplete cause if was complete you would not have got a reply from me.

I mean think about how you said it, this is what I read "hey, I pay $0.19 per kw and yet I make $3 profit per day" That sounds like is 1 gpu and not 5 cause in reality you are not making any profit at all, so meaning if you had said you have 5 cards and justified your roi then your answer would be complete and very good. Your answer was poor and incomplete and made people think how the hell are you getting $3 on a $0.19 per kw and yet 1 card.
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September 17, 2017, 03:53:45 PM
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Hi was thinking about maybe starting to mine altcoins the only problem is would you say 0.07 USD per KHw is to expensive?

My electricity cost is quite similar, and I still have a rig of 7000 series cards running. It's not immensely profitable, but I still recoup power costs and then some (if I were to trade my coins for USD immediately, which I usually don't).

I also have a rig of 3GB 1060s that is much more successful. When power costs are a concern, you should try to go for more power-efficient cards, even though used upper-tier cards of previous generations sometimes offer better hashes for the initial investment (when they are available in sufficient supply).
(Both rigs are currently mining Zcash.)


When it comes down to it, you'll have to look at the mining profitability estimates on your own (see online calculators), and then decide whether or not certain hardware is worth mining with. I will caution you, however, that this may not be the best time to invest in new hardware, given the uncertainty created by some of China's recent policies. (To be honest, I suspect that the Chinese are attempting to use their influence to conduct insider trading after encouraging users to panic sell.)

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GaryH
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September 17, 2017, 04:03:08 PM
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so now you are dictating what should be standard responses to questions?  


I'm not dictating anything, I'm just saying your answer was incomplete cause if was complete you would not have got a reply from me.

I mean think about how you said it, this is what I read "hey, I pay $0.19 per kw and yet I make $3 profit per day" That sounds like is 1 gpu and not 5 cause in reality you are not making any profit at all, so meaning if you had said you have 5 cards and justified your roi then your answer would be complete and very good. Your answer was poor and incomplete and made people think how the hell are you getting $3 on a $0.19 per kw and yet 1 card.

I'm not dictating anything, I'm just saying your answer was incomplete cause if was complete you would not have got a reply from me
 
 --lol yeah, you just did it again and you don't even know it.  It's OK bro, I forgive you for saying that I had mental problems.
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September 17, 2017, 06:25:14 PM
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Hi was thinking about maybe starting to mine altcoins the only problem is would you say 0.07 USD per KHw is to expensive?

Are you sure that $ 0.07 is your total electricity cost or is it your shopping price? Where I live electricity is advertised @ $ 0.079 per kilowatt but that does not include distribution, transmission and other  charges. So while it is listed @ $0.079 it is more around $0.14. That's almost double the quoted price. Just look at your power bill real close and deconstruct it with math. Otherwise you are going to be setting yourself up for a disappointment.   
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September 17, 2017, 06:59:22 PM
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you say 0.07 USD per KHw is to expensive?
no
in all countries there is a reserve for electric power.
price isnt linked with mining
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September 17, 2017, 07:16:24 PM
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Hi was thinking about maybe starting to mine altcoins the only problem is would you say 0.07 USD per KHw is to expensive?

Well it's not "too" expensive and I can surely say that a lot of miners mine with a much higher rate.
Anyway I could only speak for myself.

I pay about 0.045 per kW/h where I live. And it's pretty awesome. Right now with three gtx 1060s I pay about $16 only in electricity.
If zcash pops back up to $245 per coin, I'd be getting about $5 per day from these three cards.

That's about $135 per month without almost any efforts. Do your calculations yourself and see if the profits are acceptable.
Each gtx 1060 takes about 120w and for the system itself add another 110w.

Do the math and decide (take into consideration how many months are needed to get roi).
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September 17, 2017, 07:24:58 PM
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I pay 0.19 USD per KHw and mine Equihash and even with the market down I'm making $3 a day profit.

If you are saying $3 per day with 1 graphics card then I must say that your are the greatest liar ever, not even with 1 x gtx 1080 ti which you pay $700 - $800 makes $3 per day and it is the best card for mining to date, I just checked whattomine and it says 1 gtx 1080 ti $1.24 profit with electricity paid mining equihash, so where is the $3 per day you said is beyond me, see that is why people start get in mining cause you trolls are liars about the profit you are making, now tell me whatthehell did you say that? do you have a mental brain problem, illness or that kind sort?

And by the way, at the current price, $750 for a gtx 1080 ti divided by $1.24 = 604.8 days to get your money back, that is almost 2 years and if we also add other parts of the equipment for example motherboard, cpu and other things that will make the target to get back around $900 per card which the true value to get back is $850 divided 1.24 = 685.4 days to get your money invested back, so meaning mining is the worse thing to do right now. Go buy coins and hold, trust me you will earn a lot more money doing it without hassle.

what is it with the angry replies on this forum, where did you get one GPU from?  I've got 5 x 1070s.  I answered the OPs question with his concern with electricity and brought up the hardware ROI.  You apparently have the mental brain problem as you read into things that are simply not there.

I don't know when you bought them, but if someone were to by them right now new they are over $400 each and that is what you need to consider when answering peoples questions who are considering getting into mining right now. So using your rig as an example you have 5 x $400 or $2000, plus another $300 for the rest of the system making for at least a $2300 investment in hardware.

Inputting this data into whattomine with a $0.19 electric rate shows about a $5/day profit after electrical costs, which is bit higher that the $3 day you listed. So even with this information you have $2300/5 = 460 days before getting your money back.

To the OP, using this same information, you will do slightly better with your $0.07 power rate, as you shoudl earn ~$6.70/day after electricity. So you have $2,300/6.7 = 343 days to achieve ROI.

Of course the problem with both of these predictions is that difficulty will continue to go up. This means the coins price will need to also continue to go up to keep profitability at the same levels. If the coins price goes down than you could be looking at 2 years or even never before achieving ROI.

So this brings up the point I usually give to people looking into buying a rig at this point in the game. Since both mining and directly purchasing a cryptocoin outright are counting on the fact that the coin's prices needs to increase to make any profit, you will be better off just buying the coin and skipping all the mining.

The time to get into mining is when the hardware prices are actually below MSRP and not when they are at a 150% premium. I expect over the next 3-6 months we may see a selloff of mining hardware as profits are continuing to go down, but people are still adding hashrate at a feverish pace expecting everything to correct.

The problem is is that difficulty usually lags price by some amount, so there will be a long period of negative profits coming up when mining. People will probably tough it out for a month or so expecting the correction, but eventually they will realize they are actually just paying more for the coins they are mining than if they simply just went out and bought them. At this point everything will come crashing down and you will be able to pick up those same 1070's new for probably under $300 and used for under $200.


UPDATE: As I was writing this I see someone else has posted just before me that illustrates my point perfectly:

Hi was thinking about maybe starting to mine altcoins the only problem is would you say 0.07 USD per KHw is to expensive?

Well it's not "too" expensive and I can surely say that a lot of miners mine with a much higher rate.
Anyway I could only speak for myself.

I pay about 0.045 per kW/h where I live. And it's pretty awesome. Right now with three gtx 1060s I pay about $16 only in electricity.
If zcash pops back up to $245 per coin, I'd be getting about $5 per day from these three cards.

That's about $135 per month without almost any efforts. Do your calculations yourself and see if the profits are acceptable.
Each gtx 1060 takes about 120w and for the system itself add another 110w.

Do the math and decide (take into consideration how many months are needed to get roi).

So this guy is not doing his calculations at today's Zcash price of ~$175, but instead of a (hopeful) future price of $245 to make his calculations. So "if" Zcash goes up another $70 he will be making $5/day with a $660 investment in GPUs (not including the system).

So we have two scenarios, one invest $660 in GPUs today to earn $5/day (again if the price goes back to $245) and two just take that $660 and buy 3.77 Zcash coins. (I am leaving system costs out as to make the example easier.)

So let's look at the mining route. The 3 1060's are making closer to $3.60/day right now as Zcash is actually trading at $175 and not $245. So $660/$3.60 is 183 days to ROI. If the price does go back to $245 we are looking at only a 132 day ROI, which is quite good actually.

If we instead invest in Zcash we have 3.77 coins in our wallet for the same $660 investment. Those coins are worth $660 today, so in effect you already ROI on them. If the Zcash price "pops" back up to $245 as per the posters argument, your Zcash would then be worth $923.65. This represents a $263.65 profit.

If you are mining instead and the price pops up to $245, you still need to mine for those 132 days to just pay off the GPUs, much less make the extra $263. To earn the full $923.65 you would need to mine for 184 days even using the $5/day profit target.
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September 17, 2017, 09:16:12 PM
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So this guy is not doing his calculations at today's Zcash price of ~$175, but instead of a (hopeful) future price of $245 to make his calculations. So "if" Zcash goes up another $70 he will be making $5/day with a $660 investment in GPUs (not including the system).

So we have two scenarios, one invest $660 in GPUs today to earn $5/day (again if the price goes back to $245) and two just take that $660 and buy 3.77 Zcash coins. (I am leaving system costs out as to make the example easier.)

So let's look at the mining route. The 3 1060's are making closer to $3.60/day right now as Zcash is actually trading at $175 and not $245. So $660/$3.60 is 183 days to ROI. If the price does go back to $245 we are looking at only a 132 day ROI, which is quite good actually.

If we instead invest in Zcash we have 3.77 coins in our wallet for the same $660 investment. Those coins are worth $660 today, so in effect you already ROI on them. If the Zcash price "pops" back up to $245 as per the posters argument, your Zcash would then be worth $923.65. This represents a $263.65 profit.

If you are mining instead and the price pops up to $245, you still need to mine for those 132 days to just pay off the GPUs, much less make the extra $263. To earn the full $923.65 you would need to mine for 184 days even using the $5/day profit target.

I think most miners also calculate the resale value of their GPUs as a hedge which your calculations don't account for above.  Granted this summer has been an anomaly when it comes to GPU resale pricing, but even getting 50% of the original value of your GPU a year after purchase is probably do-able.

So... add an extra $1000 from that initial $2000 GPU purchase investment.

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September 17, 2017, 09:34:35 PM
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So this guy is not doing his calculations at today's Zcash price of ~$175, but instead of a (hopeful) future price of $245 to make his calculations. So "if" Zcash goes up another $70 he will be making $5/day with a $660 investment in GPUs (not including the system).

So we have two scenarios, one invest $660 in GPUs today to earn $5/day (again if the price goes back to $245) and two just take that $660 and buy 3.77 Zcash coins. (I am leaving system costs out as to make the example easier.)

So let's look at the mining route. The 3 1060's are making closer to $3.60/day right now as Zcash is actually trading at $175 and not $245. So $660/$3.60 is 183 days to ROI. If the price does go back to $245 we are looking at only a 132 day ROI, which is quite good actually.

If we instead invest in Zcash we have 3.77 coins in our wallet for the same $660 investment. Those coins are worth $660 today, so in effect you already ROI on them. If the Zcash price "pops" back up to $245 as per the posters argument, your Zcash would then be worth $923.65. This represents a $263.65 profit.

If you are mining instead and the price pops up to $245, you still need to mine for those 132 days to just pay off the GPUs, much less make the extra $263. To earn the full $923.65 you would need to mine for 184 days even using the $5/day profit target.

I think most miners also calculate the resale value of their GPUs as a hedge which your calculations don't account for above.  Granted this summer has been an anomaly when it comes to GPU resale pricing, but even getting 50% of the original value of your GPU a year after purchase is probably do-able.

So... add an extra $1000 from that initial $2000 GPU purchase investment.

The problem with the hedge argument is if the mining profitability were to go poof I do not think you would get 50% for you cards. One factor is most retail prices are actually 150% of MSRP. So a card that normally would sell for $200 such as a RX580 8 GB is going for $300+. So if the market collapses you will not be selling a "normally" $200 card for $150 (which 50% of the overpriced $300 you paid) but probably closer to $75 which is a little more than a 50% drop from the MSRP. And even this may be too generous as there is a lot more GPUs out there now than back when scrypt mining went away.

Also the hedge as you put it is still offset by the pure profit buying coins would give you. So instead of hoping for ROI in 6+ months and then hedging by selling your GPU, you could come out just as much or more by buying the coins directly. Also in the event of a sudden and violent market downturn, it is much easier to get in and out of coin potions that it is a mining setup.
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September 17, 2017, 09:54:34 PM
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So this guy is not doing his calculations at today's Zcash price of ~$175, but instead of a (hopeful) future price of $245 to make his calculations. So "if" Zcash goes up another $70 he will be making $5/day with a $660 investment in GPUs (not including the system).

So we have two scenarios, one invest $660 in GPUs today to earn $5/day (again if the price goes back to $245) and two just take that $660 and buy 3.77 Zcash coins. (I am leaving system costs out as to make the example easier.)

So let's look at the mining route. The 3 1060's are making closer to $3.60/day right now as Zcash is actually trading at $175 and not $245. So $660/$3.60 is 183 days to ROI. If the price does go back to $245 we are looking at only a 132 day ROI, which is quite good actually.

If we instead invest in Zcash we have 3.77 coins in our wallet for the same $660 investment. Those coins are worth $660 today, so in effect you already ROI on them. If the Zcash price "pops" back up to $245 as per the posters argument, your Zcash would then be worth $923.65. This represents a $263.65 profit.

If you are mining instead and the price pops up to $245, you still need to mine for those 132 days to just pay off the GPUs, much less make the extra $263. To earn the full $923.65 you would need to mine for 184 days even using the $5/day profit target.

I think most miners also calculate the resale value of their GPUs as a hedge which your calculations don't account for above.  Granted this summer has been an anomaly when it comes to GPU resale pricing, but even getting 50% of the original value of your GPU a year after purchase is probably do-able.

So... add an extra $1000 from that initial $2000 GPU purchase investment.

The problem with the hedge argument is if the mining profitability were to go poof I do not think you would get 50% for you cards. One factor is most retail prices are actually 150% of MSRP. So a card that normally would sell for $200 such as a RX580 8 GB is going for $300+. So if the market collapses you will not be selling a "normally" $200 card for $150 (which 50% of the overpriced $300 you paid) but probably closer to $75 which is a little more than a 50% drop from the MSRP. And even this may be too generous as there is a lot more GPUs out there now than back when scrypt mining went away.

Also the hedge as you put it is still offset by the pure profit buying coins would give you. So instead of hoping for ROI in 6+ months and then hedging by selling your GPU, you could come out just as much or more by buying the coins directly. Also in the event of a sudden and violent market downturn, it is much easier to get in and out of coin potions that it is a mining setup.

I disagree, but we can agree to disagree.

There are still plenty of miners who will snatch up your GPUs at a reduced cost because they have cheap power or are willing to stick it out.  And the gaming market is much larger than the mining market, and gamers are always on the lookout for a bargain GPU.

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September 17, 2017, 10:03:29 PM
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There are still plenty of miners who will snatch up your GPUs at a reduced cost because they have cheap power or are willing to stick it out.  And the gaming market is much larger than the mining market, and gamers are always on the lookout for a bargain GPU.

Usually people mining is linked to electricity cost, so if electricity cost is the same within that region then if one stops mining cause is not profitable then all the other will likely follow and they will not buy gpu's, if profitable then all buy cards, if not then all sell cards. Within the US power cost is different so if one stops the other which is not where the electricity costs is high may not stop, so within the US is something, rest of world may or may not be the same, meaning if is not profitable, people will sell and nobody will buy.

The way things are, with roi getting higher and higher, right now is around 1 year and 6 months to break even, few months ago was 120 days.
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September 17, 2017, 10:05:24 PM
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I disagree, but we can agree to disagree.

There are still plenty of miners who will snatch up your GPUs at a reduced cost because they have cheap power or are willing to stick it out.  And the gaming market is much larger than the mining market, and gamers are always on the lookout for a bargain GPU.

It's good to have your own opinion I have no argument with that. I am simply trying to paint a different viewpoint as most people new to mining did not live through the last boom bust cycle to see how things play out.

As far as your statement about still plenty of miners willing to buy GPUs, yes that is true because we haven't went bust yet. Even once mining profitability turns negative you are correct in predicting many people will try to tough it out for a month, maybe more thinking things will return to normal. It is when we start to grind on for months on end where you are either mining at an outright loss or at most making 20 cents/day off that 6 GPU rig that people will wake up and begin the exodus.

And if and when that day comes it will be just like a market crash in that once GPUs start selling off in bulk, the floodgates will open and people start undercutting each other to get out while the getting is good. Gamers will indeed have a field day, but they will mostly be looking at the now discounted retail cards as most of them are now wise to the used (but not used for mining; wink, wink) GPU market.
Za1n
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September 17, 2017, 10:11:31 PM
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There are still plenty of miners who will snatch up your GPUs at a reduced cost because they have cheap power or are willing to stick it out.  And the gaming market is much larger than the mining market, and gamers are always on the lookout for a bargain GPU.

Usually people mining is linked to electricity cost, so if electricity cost is the same within that region then if one stops mining cause is not profitable then all the other will likely follow and they will not buy gpu's, if profitable then all buy cards, if not then all sell cards. Within the US power cost is different so if one stops the other which is not where the electricity costs is high may not stop, so within the US is something, rest of world may or may not be the same, meaning if is not profitable, people will sell and nobody will buy.

The way things are, with roi getting higher and higher, right now is around 1 year and 6 months to break even, few months ago was 120 days.

Yes this is very true that higher electricity rate miners will be the first to shut down their rigs. Just like the last bust cycle, I am sure there were miners with under $0.04 electricity rates that continued on while making some small profits. However for people who were paying much more that $0.06 there were stretches of time where it was at best break-even. Of course people then resort to rationalization, such as well my miners are also heating up my space so the electricity bill is really for heat and mining is a bonus. While there may be some truth to that, when things are starting to get that tight in terms of mining profits you know the game is about up.
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