SANDSTORM: - A Collective Investment Vehicle for BTC. -

[BitHub]

Joshua Mutch
Melbourne, VIC, Australia
+61422072562
joshua.d.mutch@gmail.com
https://www.facebook.com/josh.mutch

[BitHub]

For anyone else that got scammed from this, ASIC has advised to visit this webpage and file a complaint.

https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/scams/report-a-scam#where

[pgbit]

"> and because Havelock still lists SDSTM as having an Annual Yield of 26.26%"
the annual yield on Havelock - I would agree - should be updated daily. I dont know how the calculation works, but to be fair it should not be overly positive.

[Spincycle]

Let me guess, you bought Sandstorm at ten times its IPO price, regardless of NAV/U, and blame the operator for your stupidity?

My naivety is beyond question, you ass. I bought the IPO and bought all the way down trying to lower my average buy-in price. My question to YOU is do YOU overlook or excuse any lies, dishonesty or deception an operator may use to screw others out of their bitcoins? If your answer is 'yes' then perhaps we should liquidate your kidneys as well to make ourselves whole, since your pro-exploitation attitude is part of the problem here - it encourages others to cheat the trusting. If your answer is 'no' then show some sympathy for the victims of those lies. If the bitcoin ecosystem cannot be built on trust then it maybe it will be built on violent retribution. It's generally regarded as stupid to taunt an injured animal, pankkake.

[BitHub]

Sorry this has happened to you, but Josh Mutch doesn't care, never cared about sandstorm and made 100btc for himself.

Let me guess, you bought Sandstorm at ten times its IPO price, regardless of NAV/U, and blame the operator for your stupidity?

My naivety is beyond question, you ass. I bought the IPO and bought all the way down trying to lower my average buy-in price. My question to YOU is do YOU overlook or excuse any lies, dishonesty or deception an operator may use to screw others out of their bitcoins? If your answer is 'yes' then perhaps we should liquidate your kidneys as well to make ourselves whole, since your pro-exploitation attitude is part of the problem here - it encourages others to cheat the trusting. If your answer is 'no' then show some sympathy for the victims of those lies. If the bitcoin ecosystem cannot be built on trust then it maybe it will be built on violent retribution. It's generally regarded as stupid to taunt an injured animal, pankkake.

[havelock]

Havelock Investments Announcement

We understand the business reasons behind Sandstorm ceasing operations and liquidating its holdings to unit holders.  However, we were not informed of this decision by Sandstorm management at any point and have not yet received any communication from them.  We clearly do not find this acceptable.

We're continuing to attempt to contact Josh and will be looking into the closure process and will also be looking into changes to the Havelock Fund Manager interface to restrict what a fund manager can do.  Up until now, all fund managers have acted responsibly and while we don't want to essentially punish all fund managers for the actions of one, we want to ensure investors who use our platform can rely on the funds to have an orderly shutdown if needed.

Again, our issue is not with the fund ceasing to operate but the manner in which it was undertaken.

[zefyr0s]

Havelock Investments Announcement

We understand the business reasons behind Sandstorm ceasing operations and liquidating its holdings to unit holders.  However, we were not informed of this decision by Sandstorm management at any point and have not yet received any communication from them.  We clearly do not find this acceptable.

We're continuing to attempt to contact Josh and will be looking into the closure process and will also be looking into changes to the Havelock Fund Manager interface to restrict what a fund manager can do.  Up until now, all fund managers have acted responsibly and while we don't want to essentially punish all fund managers for the actions of one, we want to ensure investors who use our platform can rely on the funds to have an orderly shutdown if needed.

Again, our issue is not with the fund ceasing to operate but the manner in which it was undertaken.

Aye it's a pretty shite thing to do to their investors and to you. Kind of opens you up to needless exposure, no?

[BitHub]

Thx for saying something, this is really terrible and not acceptable and puts Havelock in alot of trouble as well.

Havelock Investments Announcement

We understand the business reasons behind Sandstorm ceasing operations and liquidating its holdings to unit holders.  However, we were not informed of this decision by Sandstorm management at any point and have not yet received any communication from them.  We clearly do not find this acceptable.

We're continuing to attempt to contact Josh and will be looking into the closure process and will also be looking into changes to the Havelock Fund Manager interface to restrict what a fund manager can do.  Up until now, all fund managers have acted responsibly and while we don't want to essentially punish all fund managers for the actions of one, we want to ensure investors who use our platform can rely on the funds to have an orderly shutdown if needed.

Again, our issue is not with the fund ceasing to operate but the manner in which it was undertaken.

[Spincycle]

Sorry this has happened to you..

This I truly appreciate, BitHub.

I bought the IPO and bought all the way down trying to lower my average buy-in price.

No, you didn't buy at IPO price, if you bought "all the way down" after. You bought at ten times the price. You're part of the ones who didn't see the missing zero.
If you bought at the IPO price, you'd still end up positive today.

It's generally regarded as stupid to taunt an injured animal, pankkake.

Stupid? Makes no sense. Mean? Probably. But here is the thing: you're refusing to understand your mistake and chose to blame others.

I see now the IPO listed at https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=SDSTM#ui-tabs-3 was ฿0.0010 but the earliest price on the graph at https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=SDSTM#ui-tabs-1 shows ฿0.010837158
The week long hold at that price on the graph would seem to be the IPO sell off before second hand trades began.

The mistake is mine and I see that now. But here is the thing: Ive already said I was naive while you think the blame is mine alone despite Joshuas lies and deception. Your smugness is glaring. You admit you`re a mean person, you were probably not loved as a child. I pity you.

[Spincycle]

Havelock Investments Announcement

We understand the business reasons behind Sandstorm ceasing operations and liquidating its holdings to unit holders.  However, we were not informed of this decision by Sandstorm management at any point and have not yet received any communication from them.  We clearly do not find this acceptable.

We're continuing to attempt to contact Josh and will be looking into the closure process and will also be looking into changes to the Havelock Fund Manager interface to restrict what a fund manager can do.  Up until now, all fund managers have acted responsibly and while we don't want to essentially punish all fund managers for the actions of one, we want to ensure investors who use our platform can rely on the funds to have an orderly shutdown if needed.

Again, our issue is not with the fund ceasing to operate but the manner in which it was undertaken.

I`m glad you understand the business reasons behind Sandstorm ceasing operations, please share your understanding with me, James.

Yesterday Havelock calculated SDSTM as having an Annual Yield of 26.26%. If shutting down the fund and liquidating holdings has any logical rational with that performance what should I expect from HIM (8.00%), KCIM (13.64%), LABCO (6.04%) XBOND (15.21%)?

...Or is the yield calculator on Havelock Investments just fucking borked?

Is it time to race for the exits before "an orderly shutdown" begins on those other funds?

Please illuminate me.

[Peter Lambert]

...Or is the yield calculator on Havelock Investments just fucking borked?

Remember: "past performance does not guarantee future results"

[Progressive]

The precentage is just current price compared with last dividend(s), I think.

Look at this:

[Korbman]

Yesterday Havelock calculated SDSTM as having an Annual Yield of 26.26%. If shutting down the fund and liquidating holdings has any logical rational with that performance what should I expect from HIM (8.00%), KCIM (13.64%), LABCO (6.04%) XBOND (15.21%)?

...Or is the yield calculator on Havelock Investments just fucking borked?

Is it time to race for the exits before "an orderly shutdown" begins on those other funds?

Unless it's been changed (unlikely, given it's a standard financial calculation), yield is calculated based on last share price and last dividend... APY = [(Last Div) / (Last Price)] * (# of payments per year).

I'd also recommend reading through a potential investment's plan / prospectus / public thread before dumping your college savings into one of the riskier investments. There are plenty of people here who have already pointed out the serious flaws in this security. Though I agree that there's quite a bit to blame on Josh given his recent behavior, the vast majority of the blame falls to you since you were unable to do your due diligence. There's no reason to attack Havelock here.

Please illuminate me.

I'm not sure shining a light on you is going to help...though enlightenment might.

[Keyser Soze]

This goes to show that people should really understand what they are doing prior to investing. Secondary market pricing as high as 10x the NAV is not the fault of the asset issuer. Threats of violence against the issuer are completely unwarranted.

[Spincycle]

I hereby announce a standing bounty of 10 satoshi for each and every wedgie inflicted upon Keyser Soze.

[felente]

I've lost 25 BTC already so it would be worth it to me  to pay 5 more as a bounty for someone...

...announce a standing bounty of 10 satoshi for each and every wedgie inflicted upon Keyser Soze.

kid, you like announcements?
how about to do something by yourself, big boss? not tough enough? :/

and this:

...If the bitcoin ecosystem cannot be built on trust then it maybe it will be built on violent retribution.

Stupid? Makes no sense. Mean? Probably. But here is the thing: you're refusing to understand your mistake and chose to blame others.

...You admit you`re a mean person, you were probably not loved as a child. I pity you.

hm.
Pankkake is OK and right but you seem to be a little controversial and speaking about love in others lives.
behave good here on the forum.

[Spincycle]

10 satoshi. per wedgie

how could you take that seriously?

behave good here on the forum.

..or?

ass.

[jeffshed]

I agree with pancake on some things here

I personally think sandstorm did the right thing .

If any of you bother thinking about what the NAV would have been like after the announcement. my guess is somewhere between 40-60BTC
He could have driven this thing right into the ground. He could have lost all of your money. Instead it looks like he took a personal loss to pay out investors at a fairer price. The NAV before the BTCT shitstorm.

I mean go have a look at smidges track record over the last 8-9 weeks. it's a fucking bloodbath. weeks ago there was like 460btc in smidge, now there is 170btc. 290btc's into the either. mostly thanks to the btct shitstorm.

To you guys that lost money:

This is the BTC world. It is not nice. You will not easily make money. You expect money when you don't even bother looking into the underlying assets of a fund? You rely on that havelock calculator to base your decision? you have to be kidding me right.
Please leave the BTC world before you loose all of your money.

People were buying way above the assets fundamental value. Now they complain when they get burnt. It's bullshit.

I don't like seeing people loose money, but some of the comments here are just ridiculous.

[BitHub]

Update from Australian Securities and Investments Commission. Still conducting their investigation, but they are fully alert about Josh Mutch and his activities and currently looking into this SandStorm scam.

[OleOle]

Update from Australian Securities and Investments Commission. Still conducting their investigation, but they are fully alert about Josh Mutch and his activities and currently looking into this SandStorm scam.

As they say in the Colosseum:

"Let the criminal and civil penalties begin."

It will be interesting to see what if any action the Australian Securities and Investments Commission decides to take. There's a complete absence of regulatory guidance in Australia relating to bitcoins. Just type in 'bitcoin' or 'bitcoins' into the search field on www.asic.gov.au to find out how much investment regulation exists presently.

There is however, the oft-quoted remark by the Australian Taxation Office (ATO) that the currency is grandfathered under the Income Tax Assessment Act 1936 which is 'independent of references to particular currencies':

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/the-ato-says-bitcoins-have-been-taxable-since-the-get-go-2013-6

The mainstream financial press reported that 'the ATO is confident it can track users in efforts to stop fraud':

http://www.afr.com/p/technology/ato_targets_bitcoin_users_oawpzLQHDz2vEUWtvYLTWI

In the AFR article a senior accountant notes, "The ATO might need a prosecution or similar action against a fraudster to nip any activity in the bud, he added. 'Quite often you need to set an example to deter burgeoning activity of that type. These things can grow quite rapidly and fade away quite rapidly.'"

Only time will tell if SandStorm will be made an example of or whether the case will provide the catalyst for more progressive regulatory guidance. Regulators remaining in the shadows isn't doing anyone any favours.