Bitcons are just empty numbers on the internet without any value or legal power

[gribble]

The OP explain about the fiat money that there's no relationship with bitcoins, he is believe in the banks power and the government that control the fiat money, even after they take the value of money due to inflation in fiat, he still said bitcoins were just empty numbers on the internet without any value or legal power, the big reason many people who invested into bitcoins due to system of fiat money was failed.

Not at all. People didnt really invest to bitcoin because they saw fiat money system was a fail.Im sure it would really be on other purpose which is on making money not totally on its innovation.I might be wrong but these are just my opinion and perception. Fiat system would still remain no matter what since its been backed by government always and we cant do anything about it.Just let bitcoin stand on his own field.

You are right, the purpose people invested in bitcoins due to they want make money in bitcoins, it is the beautiful of digital currency can be used as currency and instrument of investment, that is mean there's something wrong with fiat money, why the people choose bitcoins as instrument of investment due to the main weaknesses of fiat money, the system of fiat money was failed.

[AjithBtc]

The thread states it to be a mere number, which is acceptable. When it comes to the interlinked technology nothing can indicate this to be a powerless asset. In terms of legal power, bitcoin is gaining strength little by little. This might make a large scale changes when more countries adopt similar to Japan.

[happyme1818]

It looks like you didn't do your homework before posting here in the forum. Maybe you should ask The owners of big companies like Microsoft why they invest their money with $0 value. You may also ask Jack Ma why he also invest on a so called virtual currency.

[silent17]

I think the creator of this thread is really stupid or something.
If bitcoin really doesn't have any value, then what do you call the load on the mobile phone. it's also an electric token that is provided by the mobile company.
or paypal perhaps, why do people even use this kind of "E" money if they don't have any value?
Bitcoin is just like a money that we use online to buy stuff. It's like the international money nowadays because almost all countries accept it.
would you think your what you called dollar can be accepted in other countries local store? of course not, but now some of the local here in our country accepts it now.

[darklus123]

Putting US dollars as the bases of the legal lliability in this society  is a pretty poor thing. Well actually  in the first place Us dollars has no value at all it is just the government tries to assume that it still has. Bitcoin is a whole different  story and it can still be valuable even if there is no point of exchange  in the local currencies

[Yakamoto]

Unlike numbers on a bank account, which represent legal liability of the bank and are backed by the collateral of specified real estate or other debt instrument that a borrower offers as a way for a bank to secure the loan, the numbers on a bitcoin address are completely void of any legal liability since software that creates them is not a legal entity which can have legal rights and obligations.

So basically, people are paying huge amounts of money to get some empty numbers which are then recorded in a public ledger on the internet. If nobody wants to accept these numbers in exchange for dollars, goods or services, they are as useless as a random number that I write on a piece of paper.

On the other hand, since dollars in a bank account are bank's liability, if nobody wants to accept dollars in exchange for goods and services, they will be settled over time through the legal system by transferring real assets from those who have received loans from the bank, since loans are secured by the collateral of specified immovable or movable property and they represent bank's assets. This comes from the fact that obligation to repay the debt would not vanish if nobody wants to accept dollars. Since the borrower received real assets for its dollars, in the absence of dollars the borrower's debt must also be settled by real assets. Alternatively, since dollars that are in circulation were exchanged for goods and services by some borrower and since he is obligated to repay his debt in dollars, if nobody wants to accept dollars the borrower is the one who is forced to accept them in exchange for goods and services otherwise he is unable to settle his obligation to the bank. Besides being backed by borrower's collateral, dollars are also backed by banks' capital and the ability to pay taxes. As we can see, dollars on their own, have real measurable value, just like goods or services.

Bitcoins on the other hand, don't have value on their own, and if nobody wants to accept them in exchange for dollars, goods or services, no legal action can be taken by their 'owners' to get some kind of value out of them. As such, Bitcons are just empty numbers on the internet, which means that people are exchanging real values for literally nothing.

Well, so far the crypto economy is saying that there is a lot of value in Bitcoin, a lot of people are saying there's value in Bitcoin, sure there's a chance in the future that Bitcoin will have no value because people simply don't want to accept it as a means of transferring value, but the same thing goes for any precious metal. It goes for foreign currencies in countries. It's not like this is something that is exclusive to Bitcoin, it is a very, very small piece of the pie in the entire financial scheme that is global economics.

[Shamie1002]

You prefer legality, liable and valuable as something that is tangible and seeable by many. I can't tell if you are a real citizen of any country not knowing how a currency is valued. If you can't understand the essence of bitcoins ( which has more advantages than fiat ) . I suggest that you try to see its value by comparing to other currencies, learning its differences and mostly how it acts and valued as a currency itself with its characteristics as an asset. Functions matter. You need to read and experience more.

[ruskytailz02]

The people also makes it have value
The technology of coin is decentralize making faster transaction in the whole world.. popularity and users makes these coins have value over time..
It depends on how people have interest on it and lots of investors whk makes it more and more popular stronger and valuable....
The supply and demand also affects this
If the people stops using it the coins value will loose but it will be stay there

[Kiweikoo]

Bitcoins on the other hand, don't have value on their own, and if nobody wants to accept them in exchange for dollars, goods or services, no legal action can be taken by their 'owners' to get some kind of value out of them. As such, Bitcons are just empty numbers on the internet, which means that people are exchanging real values for literally nothing.

If my analysis is correct, I think that the same can be said to money. If nobody wants to accept them they are just pieces of paper with numbers, places and faces of known person in them. Everything in this world can lose its value if no one acknowledge it and that includes money not just bitcoin. We know that btc is valueless when it started but then people started realizing its value thus making it valuable to people like me. I just hope you're not one of those people who speak rudely of btc then later on purchased and invested in it.

The simple and straight answer to this is bitcoin is not defined by an individual and those who are its hatter thinks that it is just a no ask to those who are in it and living a gorgeous life, they will tell you how valuable it is and how it works and give the most amazing profits of life and those who don’t know about it when they will know about it they will completely attracted to it.

[HasHe]

US dollars are just a piece of paper printed and being sent in to circulation.USD is not backed by gold.But miners spend electricity and use ASIC miners to generate new bitcoins.So,bitcoin has some intrinsic
 value.

USD could be even devalued by the US government just as it was done in india by demonitization.But Bitcoin could not be devalued by any one any time.It is for this feature,thousands of people keep trust on bitcoin and buy them.

Hope,you would understand that bitcoin is not just empty number.It is the true form of currency and it deserves to be considered as the true currency as it is free from inflation.

[qwertyup23]

I beg to disagree. Like fiat money, it holds no value since it's only a piece of printed paper. What realized its value is that, the government sees and accepts it as the main currency circulating the country, thus giving it value. Paper momey can be no different from a piece of wood if everyone accepts and sees it as the main medium of exchange. For bitcoins, what makes it very valuable is it's decentralized and volatile nature, making it the perfect instrument for investing. It holds a significant amount of mometary value when converted to fiat and even the government of other countries see it as a threat.

[Voice-Of-Reason]

Unlike numbers on a bank account, which represent legal liability of the bank and are backed by the collateral of specified real estate or other debt instrument that a borrower offers as a way for a bank to secure the loan, the numbers on a bitcoin address are completely void of any legal liability since software that creates them is not a legal entity which can have legal rights and obligations.

So basically, people are paying huge amounts of money to get some empty numbers which are then recorded in a public ledger on the internet. If nobody wants to accept these numbers in exchange for dollars, goods or services, they are as useless as a random number that I write on a piece of paper.

On the other hand, since dollars in a bank account are bank's liability, if nobody wants to accept dollars in exchange for goods and services, they will be settled over time through the legal system by transferring real assets from those who have received loans from the bank, since loans are secured by the collateral of specified immovable or movable property and they represent bank's assets. This comes from the fact that obligation to repay the debt would not vanish if nobody wants to accept dollars. Since the borrower received real assets for its dollars, in the absence of dollars the borrower's debt must also be settled by real assets. Alternatively, since dollars that are in circulation were exchanged for goods and services by some borrower and since he is obligated to repay his debt in dollars, if nobody wants to accept dollars the borrower is the one who is forced to accept them in exchange for goods and services otherwise he is unable to settle his obligation to the bank. Besides being backed by borrower's collateral, dollars are also backed by banks' capital and the ability to pay taxes. As we can see, dollars on their own, have real measurable value, just like goods or services.

Bitcoins on the other hand, don't have value on their own, and if nobody wants to accept them in exchange for dollars, goods or services, no legal action can be taken by their 'owners' to get some kind of value out of them. As such, Bitcons are just empty numbers on the internet, which means that people are exchanging real values for literally nothing.

You should check something that happened recently, around 2008, some bubble exploded and banks collapsed and the world went into a financial crisis...

[willnotwas]

Thank you for taking the time to come to this forum and explain to all of us your vast lack of knowledge about how bitcoin works, and why it has value.

Now that you've established your knowledge baseline, perhaps you'll spend some time here learning a bit about it so that you don't make the same mistake in the future.

So, if nobody wants to accept Bitcoins in exchange for dollars, goods or services, what can you do with them?

what if nobody want or accept Dollars in their store or service or something like that.
what will happen ?
do you even understand how it works ?
if it's just an empty numbers on internet,why many people use Paypal,Neteller or something like that before ?
they're exchanging their Fiat to that crap or so called 'empty numbers' to pay their bills or buy something.

to make it simplier and understandable for you.
bring your FIAT (Dollars,because you mentioned it above),and spend it in ASEAN countries.
use it directly and buy something in there,
can you do it without exchange it ?
it's all about demand from the users or peoples.

there's no what if what if.

As for PayPal, it has a clear legal status.

And on the US territory you can not refuse to accept dollars. Otherwise, force will be applied to you (they will put you in prison).

Therefore, in fact fsurfer is right.

[RodeoX]

Unlike numbers on a bank account, which represent legal ...

Hi welcome to bitcoin. You must be the new guy.

[DoublerHunter]

Bitcoin have its own value and those who gave bitcoin a value are the people who uses it and believe that bitcoin is worth something special so i think that thinking about bitcoin for being a worthless thing in the internet and it doesn't have any value or legal power is a complete bluff because bitcoin worth a lot and it has a legal power in some countries and bitcoin is still in the phase of getting started to get noticed and legalize.

[RodeoX]

And on the US territory you can not refuse to accept dollars. Otherwise, force will be applied to you (they will put you in prison).

Therefore, in fact fsurfer is right.

That is complete nonsense. 

[shinkosmos]

dude ,if you don't use it , someone will use it ... even me from cameroon 

[djselery]

I don't see that your idea makes any sense. Bitcoin isn't just numbers, it is instead a real currency having real and high value, even if you can't see this. Bitcoin is a digital currency, but it is used and available worldwide and accepted in so many marketplaces around the world as a payment method. Also its price actually is above 4800$ which is higher than Gold, for example.

[rb26]

So basically, people are paying huge amounts of money to get some empty numbers which are then recorded in a public ledger on the internet. If nobody wants to accept these numbers in exchange for dollars, goods or services, they are as useless as a random number that I write on a piece of paper.

This is also applicable for Fiat. IF no one wants to accept dollar, for instance, then dollar is worthless. Fiat gained value then because it is backed with gold, and now no currency is being backed by a precious stone or whatsoever anymore. Fiat just have a value because the majority agreed that it has a value. This goes for Bitcoin too. Bitcoin has a value because the people agreed it has a value. So if Bitcoin, as you say, is just some empty numbers, then fiat is also a bunch of empty worthless numbers.

[Andre_Goldman]

The value of any investment that is traded on the open market is whatever someone else is willing to pay for it.  Period.  Same for Stocks.  Same for Bonds.  Same for Fiat Currency.  Same for property.  Same for baseball cards.  Same for Numismatic Coins.  Same for Paintings.  Etc.  Etc.  As long as people are willing to pay for BitCoin, it will have value.

Indeed.
If I buy something from you and you sell it to me, is because something have more value to me than it have to you otherwise no trade would be made. 

Regards to bitcoin and blockchain (distributed database) network

It reminds me a book called

Electronic Exchanges: The Global Transformation from Pits to Bits
https://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Exchanges-Transformation-Elsevier-Financial/dp/0123742528