Open letter to Theymos regarding Butterfly Labs (BFL)

[Frizz23]

Hello Theymos, Hello Mods,

we all know the drama that unfolded around Butterfly Labs (BFL) - and we all have our opinion about that.

Almost 80 percent of the forum members think it’s time to give BFL the Scammer tag.

Currently 503 out of 640 members voted "Yes, Butterfly Labs (BFL) should get a Scammer tag": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155730.0

I hereby ask you to respect the voice of the community and give BFL, BFL_Sonny, BFL_Josh and Inaba the Scammer tag.

BFL_Sonny only made one single post here, but also the others have been inactive since quite some time (BFL since Jan 2013 and BFL_Josh since October 2012).

Only Inaba is very active on Bitcointalk. Therefore it is most important to give him the Scammer tag.

To a priori invalidate that argument that "Inaba" is a private account that is not affiliated with BFL I would like to allege the following reasons:
1) Inaba (Josh Zerlan) uses this account in 99 percent of his postings to discuss matters regarding BFL.
2) Inaba, as official BFL company spokesman, hides behind this account so that he can’t be held responsible for spreading inaccurate information (at best) - or blatant lies. He furthermore uses this account to insult, ridicule and offend BFL customers and members of this community.
3) Josh/BFL uses the Inaba account to bid for BFL Ads placed on Bitcointalk.

I think it is the duty of this community to warn new members from falling for a company that places Ads (since months!) with "order now" all over the place when in fact they can’t fill those orders.

I think it’s time to to call a spade a spade.

Regards,
Frizz

[linuxer]

I agree put him in scammer group and Theymos just need to stop his fucking sales and advetisements on this forum.

[Mabsark]

This is simply idiotic nonsense. How on earth can you call a company a SCAM for delivering products later than advertised? I'd rather see you people who keep perpetuating such idiotic drivel rightfully labelled as "Idiotic Troll".

[San1ty]

I think we can all agree that the insane amount of time it took for them to get their act together was ridiculous, but in the end they are shipping now and real customers are receiving their ASIC (at a slow pace).

But for the love of god give the scammer tag thing a rest, The blatant trolling might have been funny in 2012, even in early 2013, but now it just got downright boring!

[ripple]

Why not call it what it is?  A "Potential Scam".

with optional Warning:

Suckers Investors should check deliveries at http://bfl.ptz.ro/ before ordering to establish what year their order may arrive.  

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I think we can all agree that the insane amount of time it took for them to get their act together was ridiculous, but in the end they are shipping now and real customers are receiving their ASIC (at a slow pace).

But for the love of god give the scammer tag thing a rest, The blatant trolling might have been funny in 2012, even in early 2013, but now it just got downright boring!

Boring? Take a look at the threads pertaining to the selling of BFL's new line--just the chips.

I concur with the the OP.

BTW, Sonny penned two threads with a promise of more to come. Either that was a lie or he was mistaken. You decide.

[wrenchmonkey]

*Yawn* more BFL trollin' from the usual suspects...  

I have a feeling that this thread will remain especially short for me, since I have most of those usual suspects on ignore... And as of about 30 seconds ago, that includes the OP.  

Also, this thread should probably be moved to the 'meta' forum, since it has nothing to do with hardware or mining per se...

[smoothie]

Why not call it what it is?  A "Potential Scam".

with optional Warning:

Suckers Investors should check deliveries at http://bfl.ptz.ro/ before ordering to establish what year their order may arrive.  

Oh the irony.

User RIPPLE wants to call something a "Potential Scam".

haha

+1 to OP.

Theymos, Mods....I think it is a community consensus that BFL should be labeled something to give new people a chance to say "hey maybe I shouldn't order just yet and do more research on BFL."

Also the misleading advertising on this forum is not helping.

[MooC Tals]

Why not call it what it is?  A "Potential Scam".

with optional Warning:

Suckers Investors should check deliveries at http://bfl.ptz.ro/ before ordering to establish what year their order may arrive.  

Oh the irony.

User RIPPLE wants to call something a "Potential Scam".

haha

+1 to OP.

Theymos, Mods....I think it is a community consensus that BFL should be labeled something to give new people a chance to say "hey maybe I shouldn't order just yet and do more research on BFL."

Also the misleading advertising on this forum is not helping.

Although I could be considered a usual troll I have always had the customers in mind, after all I was one of them and feel lied to. I just wanted BFL to understand they have done wrong. Just because they are a company does not excuses them from not being an honest one.

I would love to call them a scam however the only benefit I see from that being done is making a great deal of people vindicated. Revenge is never a solution.

However we do know BFL advertises quite a bit EVERYWHERE!! There is nothing we can do about that. However we can keep the forum clean of those adverts.

Theymos if it was possible I could see an announcement of a "buyers beware" of pertinent information about BFL about "facts only" not all the speculation. People do come here for information usually after they buy unfortunately.

I don't want to damage BFL only limit the damage done to unsuspecting consumers. I believe that would be fair.

As a remedy I suggest anyone who wishes to donate to the bitcointalk.org as group could fund an ad space here to warn consumers. I believe Theymos would not have an issue over that. Vote with your money. It is the real weapon

[ashaw596]

Are they still refunding?  If not, then yes, they are a scam.

If they still do refunds, I don't think they can be called a scam.   Customers can decide what to do with their money.

Once they say: no refunds, no products, go away.  Well, that would be a scam in my book.

Just for the record, they are still doing refunds. One of the reasons I did originally order (and cancel) from them was that it was through paypal so that worst comes to worst I could reverse the transaction.

[computerparts]

This is simply idiotic nonsense. How on earth can you call a company a SCAM for delivering products later than advertised? I'd rather see you people who keep perpetuating such idiotic drivel rightfully labelled as "Idiotic Troll".

 

[MooC Tals]

This is simply idiotic nonsense. How on earth can you call a company a SCAM for delivering products later than advertised? I'd rather see you people who keep perpetuating such idiotic drivel rightfully labelled as "Idiotic Troll".

You need to do more reading.

[Xian01]

Considering I am a few days away from formally filing a legal complaint against Butterfly Labs, my feelings in this matter should be self-evident.

[MooC Tals]

Considering I am a few days away from formally filing a legal complaint against Butterfly Labs, my feelings in this matter should be self-evident.

I could understand your position in this. I would have done the same. However I am impartial and willing to see what happens either way.

[smoothie]

Are they still refunding?  If not, then yes, they are a scam.

If they still do refunds, I don't think they can be called a scam.   Customers can decide what to do with their money.

Once they say: no refunds, no products, go away.  Well, that would be a scam in my book.

Ponzi's operate this way too. They will refund an investor just to keep a good standing front to their investors to avoid the house of cards collapsing.

So I disagree here 100%. BFL can refund all they want, but at the end of the day they can't deliver and fill ALL of the existing customer preorders WITHOUT taking in new money to fund existing orders.

That, my friend, is a PONZI.

And is Illegal.

[MooC Tals]

Are they still refunding?  If not, then yes, they are a scam.

If they still do refunds, I don't think they can be called a scam.   Customers can decide what to do with their money.

Once they say: no refunds, no products, go away.  Well, that would be a scam in my book.

Ponzi's operate this way too. They will refund an investor just to keep a good standing front to their investors to avoid the house of cards collapsing.

So I disagree here 100%. BFL can refund all they want, but at the end of the day they can't deliver and fill ALL of the existing customer preorders WITHOUT taking in new money to fund existing orders.

That, my friend, is a PONZI.

And is Illegal.

signed.

[Maged]

No, they will not receive a scammer tag over the matter of their ASICs being late until several months go by with no progress. Stop asking.

[Crypt_Current]

No, they will not receive a scammer tag over the matter of their ASICs being late until several months go by with no progress. Stop asking.

Thank you, voice of reason.

[razorfishsl]

The Forum needs a range of tags.

Including  a "stupidity" tag.

[Ex0deus]

Someones cranky they didn't get an early pre-order in