Why QQ?

[k9quaint]

They are sending out equipment now, despite the longing to hold on to the idea that they aren't.  If BFL's order system suddenly had zero orders and tons of refunds, my guess is that they would continue to allow new orders (where they get money right away) in while they send the refunds out.  People are waiting already, you can be assured they would be waiting in the odd and unrealistic case presented.  This is more than sufficient time to make up the difference, and then some - as BFL could now charge more for each individual unit due to the current market forces, as has been illustrated.

1) 93% of their orders (when measured by hash-rate here http://bfl.ptz.ro/) are in singles and mini-rigs. By BFL's own admission none of those have shipped yet.
2) By BFL's own admission, the 1st of 11 months of Jalapeno pre-orders have shipped. That is roughly 9% of 7% which is 0.63% of the hash rate that they owe their customers.
3) By BFL's own admission, they do not have working singles or mini-rigs that they can ship and there is no firm ETA on when 93% of their pre-orders can actually begin shipping.

If the bulk of single and mini-rig sales cancel but the bulk of Jalapeno's stay, BFL could see $6-7 million dollars suddenly vanish from their coffers. They would still need weeks to ship all the Jalapeno's they owe.

[PuertoLibre]

They are sending out equipment now, despite the longing to hold on to the idea that they aren't.  If BFL's order system suddenly had zero orders and tons of refunds, my guess is that they would continue to allow new orders (where they get money right away) in while they send the refunds out.  People are waiting already, you can be assured they would be waiting in the odd and unrealistic case presented.  This is more than sufficient time to make up the difference, and then some - as BFL could now charge more for each individual unit due to the current market forces, as has been illustrated.

1) 93% of their orders (when measured by hash-rate here http://bfl.ptz.ro/) are in singles and mini-rigs. By BFL's own admission none of those have shipped yet.
2) By BFL's own admission, the 1st of 11 months of Jalapeno pre-orders have shipped. That is roughly 9% of 7% which is 0.63% of the hash rate that they owe their customers.
3) By BFL's own admission, they do not have working singles or mini-rigs that they can ship and there is no firm ETA on when 93% of their pre-orders can actually begin shipping.

If the bulk of single and mini-rig sales cancel but the bulk of Jalapeno's stay, BFL could see $6-7 million dollars suddenly vanish from their coffers. They would still need weeks to ship all the Jalapeno's they owe.

Shit, you and your dirty facts!

The folks at BFL went through all this trouble to make an anthill into a mountain and here you are giving us facts that this mountain is only 12 inches across.

(Master BFL Shill)

[Littleshop]

My crystal ball is shuddering terribly.

It says, shit is about to hit the fan.

Horrorscope of the day, if you are in, get out. Quickly!

You are quite bad at generating FUD.  Good FUD is slick and subtle.  And if it is good FUD you would only need to say it once and it will do its magic.  Your total desperation to attack BFL makes it almost comical.  Now that BFL is shipping in volume it makes you look quite desperate. 

[k9quaint]

My crystal ball is shuddering terribly.

It says, shit is about to hit the fan.

Horrorscope of the day, if you are in, get out. Quickly!

You are quite bad at generating FUD.  Good FUD is slick and subtle.  And if it is good FUD you would only need to say it once and it will do its magic.  Your total desperation to attack BFL makes it almost comical.  Now that BFL is shipping in volume it makes you look quite desperate. 

Who needs FUD? One can simply quote stats from the same website that demonstrates BFL is shipping product to also demonstrate that after 2 months of shipping, they have shipped 0.63% of the hash rate that they promised. With no ETA from BFL on when the products that comprise 93% of BFL's promised product will come out of design and enter production, I would say that nobody needs to make up FUD.

Supporting links and evidence:
1) 93% of BFL's orders (when measured by hash-rate here http://bfl.ptz.ro/) are in singles and mini-rigs. By BFL's own admission none of those have shipped yet.
2) By BFL's own admission, the 1st of 11 months of Jalapeno pre-orders have shipped. That is roughly 9% of 7% which is 0.63% of the total hash rate that they owe their customers.
3) By BFL's own admission, they do not have working singles or mini-rigs that they can ship and there is no firm ETA on when 93% of their pre-orders can actually begin shipping.

[Xian01]

My crystal ball is shuddering terribly.
It says, shit is about to hit the fan.
Horrorscope of the day, if you are in, get out. Quickly!

You are quite bad at generating FUD.  Good FUD is slick and subtle.  And if it is good FUD you would only need to say it once and it will do its magic.  Your total desperation to attack BFL makes it almost comical.  Now that BFL is shipping in volume it makes you look quite desperate. 

 * Checks his mailbox today. Jaw drops when seeing "Attorney General of Missouri" envelope & letterhead. Whistles innocently *

[Starlightbreaker]

My crystal ball is shuddering terribly.
It says, shit is about to hit the fan.
Horrorscope of the day, if you are in, get out. Quickly!

You are quite bad at generating FUD.  Good FUD is slick and subtle.  And if it is good FUD you would only need to say it once and it will do its magic.  Your total desperation to attack BFL makes it almost comical.  Now that BFL is shipping in volume it makes you look quite desperate. 

 * Checks his mailbox today. Jaw drops when seeing "Attorney General of Missouri" envelope & letterhead. Whistles innocently *

+bitcointip...

....aww shit this is not reddit.

[k9quaint]

1) 93% of their orders (when measured by hash-rate here http://bfl.ptz.ro/) are in singles and mini-rigs. By BFL's own admission none of those have shipped yet.

bfl.ptz.ro?

This is the disclaimer directly from their site:

This tables only show information that is gatherd in our database NOT all the orders from BFL

While that might be a nice place to get a very rough estimate of where things are, it's hardly a place worth coming up with a fixed percentage of what the actual orders are.  You can go on there right now and put in an order for 10, 20, 30 Jalapenos/LS/S/Rigs, and as far as I can tell, it will be added - whether or not it's a legitimate order.

Why would someone do this?  The same reasons as someone would consistently spread FUD about BFL, which can be more selfishly motivated than simple frustration.  Or they made a mistake.  Or they double-entered and can't change the original. 

The site is a good idea, but again, is good for little more than the roughest of estimates given the collection techniques.

I am using the data that the BFL fanbois have used to "prove" BFL is shipping in volume. If you want to discard that dataset, you must also discard the idea that BFL is shipping in volume since that is the only source external to BFL that demonstrates volume shipping. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by using that data, if you don't want that benefit I will be happy to ask you to prove that BFL is shipping in volume.

You will be left with 10 "I got my Jalapeno" forum posts, and a picture of Jalapeno cases posted on BFL's website.

2) By BFL's own admission, the 1st of 11 months of Jalapeno pre-orders have shipped. That is roughly 9% of 7% which is 0.63% of the hash rate that they owe their customers.
3) By BFL's own admission, they do not have working singles or mini-rigs that they can ship and there is no firm ETA on when 93% of their pre-orders can actually begin shipping.

If the bulk of single and mini-rig sales cancel but the bulk of Jalapeno's stay, BFL could see $6-7 million dollars suddenly vanish from their coffers. They would still need weeks to ship all the Jalapeno's they owe.

So now we're focused specifically on the cancelling of only little single/single/rigs in OP's hypothetical.  Fair enough. 

I have always been focused on how order cancellations could negatively affect BFL's business.

All they have done is reset the game, in effect.  Sure, all those millions are now going back to refunds.  Now the first person to order a LS/S after that will be first in line.  If they are producing in 2 weeks, that's when they get theirs.  4 weeks? 6 weeks? Doesn't matter, they are at the front of the line.

They would also have the new theoretical option of buying a jalapeno which is shipping and no longer has the huge pre-order queue.

This whole experiment has been completely ludicrous because of this simple point, that wouldn't change:

People are willing to pay tons of money for ASICS right now.  BFL is shipping ASICS.  If everybody currently in the queue jumped out there would be plenty more to jump right back in - and, as has been said before, BFL could charge them more to do it.

$/BTC are more powerful motivators than butthurt.

Again, your latest scenario contends that all the people cancel instantly and all the potential customers know exactly how many orders are left in BFL's queue. A mass of order cancellations is not going to inspire people to line up for BFL. Quite the opposite in fact:

1) They would not be at the front of the line given there might be 10,000 people still in front of them at any given time. BFL's order book is not public, we can only guess with statistical sampling.

2) With no ship date for the first version of the SC and Mini-rig products and a wave of refund requests hitting a company with murky financials. Only a complete optimist would order a product from BFL given the alternative products available from Avalon, ASICMiner, and even KNCMiner (since we are talking about pre-production units).

[FCTaiChi]

They are literally sending out jalapeno units.  I don't know how many, I don't really care.  Apparently they've covered the June orders through July 20th.  This is what is important though:

I think your the disconnect here is that you are so invested in this (ideologically, monetarily idk) that you aren't willing to take a look at what BFL has done wrong.  You talk about objectivity, but how can you ignore the lists thrown at you?  You just keep saying how ridiculous it is and the op's idea wouldn't work, so what would work?  Why do you think it's wrong to try to fight this?

[k9quaint]

Again, your latest scenario contends that all the people cancel instantly and all the potential customers know exactly how many orders are left in BFL's queue. A mass of order cancellations is not going to inspire people to line up for BFL. Quite the opposite in fact:

1) They would not be at the front of the line given there might be 10,000 people still in front of them at any given time. BFL's order book is not public, we can only guess with statistical sampling.

2) With no ship date for the first version of the SC and Mini-rig products and a wave of refund requests hitting a company with murky financials. Only a complete optimist would order a product from BFL given the alternative products available from Avalon, ASICMiner, and even KNCMiner (since we are talking about pre-production units).

I'm sorry, but how can this:

all the people cancel instantly

coexist in OP's bizarro world with this?

They would not be at the front of the line given there might be 10,000 people still in front of them at any given time

I am trying my best to imagine this insane idea ever happening, which isn't easy given the sheer ridiculousness, but at least I'm being consistent with it

You miss quoted me leaving out the key information which says that you are insisting that people will cancel instantly. I bolded the entire quote and I repeat it here for you now:
your latest scenario contends that all the people cancel instantly
I have been contending that people would not in fact cancel instantly as you have now twice proposed. Your misrepresentation of my position reveals more about you than it does me.

The free market right now is paying BTC2 for 300 MH/s.  BFL is selling individual units (again, RIGHT NOW, also in dogie-world) that put out 5000 MH/s.  Now even as an ASICMINER stock holder I can say without question that BTC2 for 300 MH/s is overpriced.  So let's take a little bit off to deal with the irrational exuberance that got it to BTC2 for that and I'll say it's worth BTC1.  BFL's unit is still doing 16.66 times that.

16.66 * $120? $2,000.  That's if people paid at half what they paid per MH/s for ASICMINER USBs. 

I can tell it's very, very difficult for some people to look past the accumulated [distrust/dislike/bias/desire to keep current Avalon or ASICMINER profits] and examine a hypothetical question, but BFL would come out of OP's impossible idea with an insanely good profit margin.

Their profit margin would be improved by a flood of refunds, but right now they would have to sell more units for that to matter. Who in their right mind would add a pre-order now to wait another 90 days (according to Josh) to get their shipment? The only way it would work is if BFL admitted that the entire Bitcoin marketplace had lost faith in them and every single person asked for a refund. Your contention is that this would be a good thing, and that people would view that as a sign of strength and add their pre-orders to the pile. Nonsense.

My contention is that it would not matter, they would be out of business since their cash to buy parts would be gone, their cash to pay salaries and rent would be gone. While they might be able to mine with a few dozen units they showed in a photograph. They haven't shipped enough units to realize any profit, they have 11 months of burn rate to make back. If they haven't spent any of their pre-order money then where did the last 11 months of operating funds come from? Not that imaginary private-equity group, that has been debunked and even BFL doesn't bring it up anymore.

You keep bringing up the OP. You should read it again. He doesn't say every BFL order should cancel, he says everyone on these forums who complain about BFL should organize a "mass refund exodus". That means a lot of BFL customers, not all the BFL customers. Hit BFL in the pocket book for $2 million or so and see what happens. BFL will still have months of back-orders to fill and be faced with a $2 million tab and a lot of bad press.

The more you post, the more I realize that you are blind to BFL's actual statistics and are skating by on hope alone.

[k9quaint]

For an analysis of that you can look back at my prior posts, and if you want to try and refute any of the points, please be my guest.

I tried. You resorted to misquoting me and then fell on your own sword trying to discredit the data supporting my position. You cling to your absurd notion that $5 million of refunds asked for in a public campaign would help BFL. In short, you have offered little actual evidence to demonstrate that any of your criticisms of the OP hold water.

As someone who has seen the way most of these BFL threads go, the question I consistently ask when reading someone's posts is Cui bono.  Conveniently, a quick look through someone's post history usually reveals the answer.

Yes. I have noticed that instead of addressing what is said, you address who is saying it. Thereby you neatly sidestep having to deal with actual evidence and data.

The list at http://bfl.ptz.ro/ was very convenient for people who want to prove that BFL is shipping in volume (yourself included). But as soon as that list demonstrated something that you didn't like you attack it as invalid or tainted data. You can have one or the other, but not both.

Either demonstrate alternative proof that BFL is shipping in volume, or stop claiming it. Until then, either accept the list as a statistical sample from which general characteristics of BFL's order book can be inferred. Or stop claiming that BFL is shipping any sort of volume because that is the only evidence external to BFL that they are.

[k9quaint]

You miss quoted me leaving out the key information which says that you are insisting that people will cancel instantly. I bolded the entire quote and I repeat it here for you now:
your latest scenario contends that all the people cancel instantly
I have been contending that people would not in fact cancel instantly as you have now twice proposed. Your misrepresentation of my position reveals more about you than it does me.

Ahhh post history.  Let's take a quick trip down memory lane.  If you trace the conversation back far enough we find this post:

So let me get this straight... Dogie is advocating a mass refund on BFL, who has a bunch of mining hardware.  Lets say Dogies exceptionally brilliant plan came to pass (which is, in and of itself completely ridiculous, but we'll table that for now).  Hypothetically, what do you think a company, faced with all pre-orders canceled, yet holding onto hundreds of TH of mining equipment is going to do?  Say "Oh noes! Bye!" ... or do you think they'd press that hardware into service?

Yes, by all means, cancel all the orders, lets see how well that ends up working out.

For the record, BFL is capable of refunding all of the preorders in the queue and remaining in business.  Would we have to pare down on employees?  Sure we would, but then again, we wouldn't need so many employees if we aren't doing customer service anyway.

you dont have the (hundreds of TH of mining equipment ) because if you have it why you are delaying it and not shipping for the buyer?

Hypothetically

Hypothetically

It's cool if you want to be a troll and all, but please at least put some effort into pretending to read.

The hypothetical is what the company will do. A given was that the company is holding hundreds of terahashes worth of equipment.
Tigerfree was correct in pointing out the entire hypothetical was irrelevant because the given was not true.

Josh could have also said:
Hypothetically, what do you think a company, faced with a call to cancel pre-orders yet having delivered 100% of orders is going to do?
You would be correct in pointing out that the hypothetical is irrelevant to the current discussion of BFL because they have not delivered 100% of their pre-orders. It is not a troll to point out a flaw in a rule for a hypothetical.

Notice the line in there that started all of this?

Lets say Dogies exceptionally brilliant plan came to pass (which is, in and of itself completely ridiculous, but we'll table that for now).  Hypothetically, what do you think a company, faced with all pre-orders canceled, yet holding onto hundreds of TH of mining equipment is going to do?  Say "Oh noes! Bye!" ... or do you think they'd press that hardware into service?

Now after that, there was a lot of tangential conversations, but this is what I've been discussing since then.

You most certainly have not been discussing it, but I am glad you finally agreed to address my original post instead of bouncing all over the place. Inaba's hypothetical was wrong because they do not have hundreds of TH/s of mining equipment. There is barely 100TH/s of mining equipment in operation today. You have been defending an obvious falsehood on Josh's part and Dogie was right to call him out on it. Since one of the givens in the hypothetical was obviously false, it is irrelevant to this conversation.

I will address the rest of your wall of text in a second post. 

[k9quaint]

The list at http://bfl.ptz.ro/ was very convenient for people who want to prove that BFL is shipping in volume (yourself included). But as soon as that list demonstrated something that you didn't like you attack it as invalid or tainted data. You can have one or the other, but not both.

This is straight-up false.  Please direct me to the instance where I attempted to use that site to "prove" BFL was shipping in volume.

Edit: Bullshit was a bit strong.  Seriously though, don't make things up.

Fine. The list is bullshit. You never claimed BFL is shipping in volume. My apologies.

Please provide evidence BFL has shipped more than a couple of dozen Jalapeno's or let us assume that they have not since there is no evidence to suggest it.
If you cannot provide that evidence, then please explain the following:
Why 66 days after their first unit shipped they are still unable to ship units in volume.
Explain why $5 million in pre-order cancellations would improve this situation.
Explain where their operating capital for the last 11 months and the next few weeks came from.

[k9quaint]

... It's a hypothetical. 

hy·po·thet·i·cal  (hp-tht-kl) also hy·po·thet·ic (-thtk)
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or based on a hypothesis: a hypothetical situation. See Synonyms at theoretical.
2.
a. Suppositional; uncertain.

I wasn't making judgements about what they had or didn't have.  I was arguing specifically from the perspective of that hypothetical.  If you weren't, that's on you. 

Ah. Finally, we get to the root of the problem. You do not understand a hypothetical construct in logic.

You could say that hypothetically speaking given 2+2=5, that BFL is right and I am wrong.

I will rightfully point out that 2+2 does not in fact equal 5 and there is no circumstance under which it would. Then I would ask why are you bringing up some random nonsensical hypothetical to derail the thread.

Inaba said that hypothetically speaking, given that BFL has hundreds of TH/s of equipment, if everyone canceled their order BFL would be happy.

It was rightfully pointed out that it was an absurd hypothetical
you dont have the (hundreds of TH of mining equipment ) because if you have it why you are delaying it and not shipping for the buyer?
and then you jumped to his defense.

Explain why that hypothetical situation was in any way relevant to the OP's plan.

[ralree]

Please do as he says so I can get my units faster.  Thx.

[k9quaint]

... It's a hypothetical.  

hy·po·thet·i·cal  (hp-tht-kl) also hy·po·thet·ic (-thtk)
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or based on a hypothesis: a hypothetical situation. See Synonyms at theoretical.
2.
a. Suppositional; uncertain.

I wasn't making judgements about what they had or didn't have.  I was arguing specifically from the perspective of that hypothetical.  If you weren't, that's on you.  

Ah. Finally, we get to the root of the problem. You do not understand a hypothetical construct in logic.

You could say that hypothetically speaking given 2+2=5, that BFL is right and I am wrong.

I will rightfully point out that 2+2 does not in fact equal 5 and there is no circumstance under which it would. Then I would ask why are you bringing up some random nonsensical hypothetical to derail the thread.

Inaba said that hypothetically speaking, given that BFL has hundreds of TH/s of equipment, if everyone canceled their order BFL would be happy.

It was rightfully pointed out that it was an absurd hypothetical
you dont have the (hundreds of TH of mining equipment ) because if you have it why you are delaying it and not shipping for the buyer?
and then you jumped to his defense.

Explain why that hypothetical situation was in any way relevant to the OP's plan.

You're trying to compare discrete numbers to numbers that you don't have.  Again, and for like the whatevereth time here, I don't care if you want to add more rules to the hypothetical situation afterwards and argue on and on about it.  That's not what I was talking about.

No, I am comparing two situations that are absurd. One is that 2+2 can equal 5. The other is that BFL already possesses "hundreds of TH/s of equipment". You have already confused GH/s and MH/s. Let me write that number in MH/s so I can be sure you understand. BFL is claiming to have at least 200,000,000 MH/s. The entire Bitcoin network hash rate is 100,000,000 MH/s. It would take sixty thousand Jalapenos to generate that much hash power.

That particular Hypothetical situation was relevant because it addressed the ridiculousness of the plan before even getting TO that point.

You make the assertion that "market forces" would appear and rescue a failing company drowning in bad press. That is magical thinking.

At a higher level, a ridiculous hypothetical was a perfectly valid response to the OP's absurd plan.  I posted a similar one just a few posts before all of this started.  It's just arguing for fun.  Isn't that what these BFL posts are all about anyway?

You think that getting hit with a wave of refunds will help BFL. That is the absurd part of this thread. You say you don't care about BFLs finances and won't bother to examine them because you are not their accountant. That is the root of your fallacy. You think BFL could survive a wave of refunds because magical "market forces" will appear with bags of money to save them. Unless you dispel that notion, every criticism of BFL will seem absurd to you since with infinite market support they are bound to produce your product eventually. You should take a good look at the top level of the Custom Hardware forum and note that it is filled with threads about buying ASICs from companies other than BFL. BFL has competition. Their product is not the top performer like they claimed it would be. The market forces are unlikely to benefit them.

You noted that ASICMiner products are selling, but so are KNCMiner products. KNCMiner are pricing 175GH/s at $3800. BFL is pricing 50GH/s at $2500. Neither company has shipped that product yet, or demonstrated a working prototype of that product. Your market forces are indeed present, but I don't think they are on your side.

[ThatDGuy]

Your market forces are indeed present, but I don't think they are on your side.

See, this is why it's becoming less and less worth my time to try and explain anything.  Despite countless attempts to enlighten otherwise, I don't have a side.  At least, not in this particular space.  My side is ASICs being more readily available.  It is also consumers being able to attain them in a relatively fair way without any one company monopolizing.  You know, the basic principles behind Bitcoin: decentralization.

Below is just one of many examples of market forces in action, specific to the the how they would behave in OP's ludicrous suggestion.

Please do as he says so I can get my units faster.  Thx.

If BFL suddenly has a shorter pre-order list, my estimation is that they would get more orders coming in because people could receive them in a timeframe that is easier to judge.  You estimate differently.  Nothing will change that.

[FCTaiChi]

Wow ThatDGuy, I love how you pretended that you weren't insulting me in your response.

So I'll ask again what would be the appropriate way to handle this situation?

[ThatDGuy]

Wow ThatDGuy, I love how you pretended that you weren't insulting me in your response.

So I'll ask again what would be the appropriate way to handle this situation?

Well unfortunately you've once again left me with very little context as to what you're referencing.

As for "pretending I wasn't insulting" I re-read my post to try and see what could have come off insulting and the best I could come up with was this:

I'm not sure if I'm understanding the question properly here, perhaps there is a language barrier making it difficult.  My guess is that you're asking:

If suggesting there was a language barrier was insulting, I am sorry.  My reasoning for it was from reading your post:

I think your the disconnect here is that you are so invested in this (ideologically, monetarily idk) that you aren't willing to take a look at what BFL has done wrong.  

This sentence was made difficult to understand, either you were trying to say *I* was the disconnect using the incorrect "your" instead of "you're" or you didn't want the if.

You talk about objectivity, but how can you ignore the lists thrown at you?  You just keep saying how ridiculous it is and the op's idea wouldn't work, so what would work?  Why do you think it's wrong to try to fight this?

This section in particular wasn't clear.  Why do I think it's wrong to try and fight -what-??

This was a question I specifically asked you in my response before attempting to answer based on my best guess at what you were asking:

"Why do I think it's wrong to try and fight BFL?"

The answer to which is simple:  This isn't war and it's not personal (for me, but clearly is for others).  You don't "fight" companies.  

You either buy, or you don't buy.  It's that easy.  If enough people were so fed up with BFL, they would have already gotten refunds.

So, getting back to your current question of

So I'll ask again what would be the appropriate way to handle this situation?

What "situation" are you talking about?

[PuertoLibre]

My crystal ball is shuddering terribly.

It says, shit is about to hit the fan.

Horrorscope of the day, if you are in, get out. Quickly!

You are quite bad at generating FUD.  Good FUD is slick and subtle.  And if it is good FUD you would only need to say it once and it will do its magic.  

As K9 mentioned earlier, Who needs FUD?

The truth is much more potent than any "FUD" could ever be.

Moving beyond that, the information that lead to me writting that warning post has no presence on this thread. You don't know what lead to those words or the warning. Don't you think I would have posted it and described the situation clearly so you'd understand "a FUD" scenario?

Why didn't I write more than three lines? Consider that. I want you to be utterly dismissive of it.

I posted a simple warning without any context. I imagine eventually that piece of information will become widely available. Though honestly, I don't see how it would actually reach the forum. I can only imagine that BFL would have to post it themselves as a notice to it's customers, then again I doubt they actually would as it might hurt confidence in deliveries.

Anyway, I didn't post more info because I want you to hang on. In this situation, I want you to be "stuck".

No "FUD" is necessary, you just don't know what I am going on about. Dogie by accident or intention hit upon it. Though I deleted any references so that people would not know what my statements were about. I posted it as subtle and without context as I could.

Because I know that when it actually hits you or impacts your order(s) it will be too late for you to actually do anything about it. You'll just have to wait, along with everyone else. Anyone who has gotten out "by now" has already done so for the right reasons. Different things motivated them to act on it. Everyone else still left in the order queue is left to gamble their order in whatever way the outcome becomes.

Your total desperation to attack BFL makes it almost comical.  Now that BFL is shipping in volume it makes you look quite desperate.  

You know, it almost sounds like you are worried about something.

Don't worry, just be happy!

Edit: Everything will be alright in "2 weeks"®, I promise.

[PuertoLibre]

At K9, since you are having some trouble with ThatDGuy.

Here is a helpful link that should give you more of a boost in your argument. Just because BFL says they have shipped through a certain date, does not mean they have actually fulfilled all units up to that date. Proof?:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/3122-shipping-but-not-your-full-order.html

?Master of illusions?

The false appearance of having delivered everything (just jally of course) up to a certain date is...just that...an illusion. You have to give it to "them", they sure know how to do a good mind job on their customers. (In my opinion only)

If it weren't for K9 and his facts, you'd have almost have believed it were true...