[OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading

[mayax]

Proof? LOL . There are hundreds of proofs.
#snip irrelavant links~

That's proof that Tethers were created not proof that they are not genuinely paid for.

Who can think that Tether is "receiving" $100 million a day in customer deposits via its diminutive Polish bank and then converting these into USDT?

You are confusing Bitfinex's banking arrangements with Tether's.

Anyone who thinks cryptocurrency has had $250m of investment in 3 days is fucking retarded.

It really doesn't make any difference what you or anyone thinks. Thinking something is a fraud doesn't equal evidence of the same.

You do realize that you are pathetic, right?

Each day the US Treasury prints approximately $500,000,000 in new bills.

Yesterday, Tether printed $200,000,000 worth of USDT. It’s not going to be long before they are literally printing more money than the feds.  

Tether is "receiving" $100-$200 millions a day in customer deposits, right? 

[TheQuin]

You do realize that you are pathetic, right?

Do you realise that the fact that you THINK Tether is a scam is completely meaningless?

You cannot believe that Tether is for real for whatever personal reasons you have. That's fine but simply insulting anyone who isn't convinced by your theories and complete lack of evidence to support them is not a winning argument.

[Samarkand]

...

How many years without Tether collapsing will it take for you to work out you're wrong?

I´d be extremely surprised if Tether would last another year.
They have issued more than 400M$ in the last week alone in order
to prop up the cryptocurrency markets.
Many people think that they are in a quandary, because they can´t let
the prices drop too much, because this would cause a cascade of margin calls
at Bitfinex, which would crash the price even further.

Just take a look at the NEO flash crash a few months ago. If a similar flash crash would
occur in the BTC/USD market it would be a complete bloodbath.

Just assume for a moment that Tethers are (partly) unbacked and the whole
operation is an elaborate fraud. I´m not saying that it really is one, just assume
that for a second. It is well known that these kind of operations often ramp up
their fraudulent activities near the end of their lifespan. A development like
this would pretty much look like what we are witnessing now, with daily
issuances of 100M$ of Tether or even more.

[mayax]

...

How many years without Tether collapsing will it take for you to work out you're wrong?

I´d be extremely surprised if Tether would last another year.
They have issued more than 400M$ in the last week alone in order
to prop up the cryptocurrency markets.
Many people think that they are in a quandary, because they can´t let
the prices drop too much, because this would cause a cascade of margin calls
at Bitfinex, which would crash the price even further.

Just take a look at the NEO flash crash a few months ago. If a similar flash crash would
occur in the BTC/USD market it would be a complete bloodbath.

Just assume for a moment that Tethers are (partly) unbacked and the whole
operation is an elaborate fraud. I´m not saying that it really is one, just assume
that for a second. It is well known that these kind of operations often ramp up
their fraudulent activities near the end of their lifespan. A development like
this would pretty much look like what we are witnessing now, with daily
issuances of 100M$ of Tether or even more.

an "institutional investor" that is interested in Bitcoin, is going to buy hundreds of millions  worthless of Tethers first, in order to buy Bitcoin.  

from where? from an unlicensed exchangers, with no real office and 3 times "hacked".  

Bitfinex needs exponentially more and more counterfeit money to prop this market up.

[TheQuin]

I´d be extremely surprised if Tether would last another year.

*Places reminder in calendar for 20/01/2019*

I look forward to discussing this with you then.

Just take a look at the NEO flash crash a few months ago. If a similar flash crash would
occur in the BTC/USD market it would be a complete bloodbath.

The BTCUSD market has much more liquidity so is far less susceptible to such occurrences. As trading is a zero-sum game these events don't affect exchanges just individual traders.

The other thing that is often overlooked is that unlike when Mt. Gox went under there are many more large exchanges now. Bitfinex accounts for less than 20% of the BTCUSD market. As such it would have little impact on the market as a whole.

....operations often ramp up their fraudulent activities near the end of their lifespan. A development like
this would pretty much look like what we are witnessing now....

If I hadn't been listening to people saying this is the end game for so many months I might take this a little more seriously.
It's actually quite amusing to see people pointing at Bitfinex's and Tethers' success and saying it means they must be a fraud.

[Samarkand]

...
The BTCUSD market has much more liquidity so is far less susceptible to such occurrences. As trading is a zero-sum game these events don't affect exchanges just individual traders.

...

I agree that the BTC/USD market is less susceptible to such occurences. However, there is also
a precedent where a much more liquid trading pair (ETH/USD at Coinbase/GDAX) had a flash crash
(https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/22/ethereum-price-crash-10-cents-gdax-exchange-after-multimillion-dollar-trade.html).
This is the reason why I argue that a cascade of margin calls in the BTC/USD market would be a real
bloodbath compared to the NEO flash crash, which had only negligible impact, because most
people don´t trade NEO/USD at all.

Besides, I think that the impact on the different exchanges would be incommensurable.
Exchanges like Bitfinex that offer margin trading and actually finance the margin positions
by P2P lending would be much more affected by a huge decline in the Bitcoin price than exchanges
like Bitstamp. An exchange that doesn´t offer margin trading at all can´t be jeopardized by
a cascade of margin calls.

I also look forward to seeing whether Tether is still around in a year!

[TheQuin]

I agree that the BTC/USD market is less susceptible to such occurences. However, there is also
a precedent....

Sure, I've seen flash crashes in the S&P 500 and various forex pairs, nothing is immune. I just think you are overstating both the chances of it happening and the impact of such an event. I know it all fits in nicely with the narrative of the story 'Tether brings the whole house down'. But it is all a bit far-fetched and requiring an active imagination.

[mayax]

More about Bitfinex gang (including Tether) :    https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@cryptoscopia/making-sense-of-the-tether-situation      


TheQuin, this is what you are promoting. you are shill for a criminal gang which will end in prison.

many people like this one will be : https://youtu.be/YagUXXtyFn4?t=409

[TheQuin]

More about Bitfinex gang (including Tether) :    https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@cryptoscopia/making-sense-of-the-tether-situation      

There are so many false statements in that it would take all day to point them out.

TheQuin, this is what you are promoting. you are shill for a criminal gang which will end in prison.

I'm not promoting anything. I'm just pointing out that most of what you say is either just speculation with no basis in fact or just plain wrong.

[mayax]

More about Bitfinex gang (including Tether) :    https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@cryptoscopia/making-sense-of-the-tether-situation      

There are so many false statements in that it would take all day to point them out.

TheQuin, this is what you are promoting. you are shill for a criminal gang which will end in prison.

I'm not promoting anything. I'm just pointing out that most of what you say is either just speculation with no basis in fact or just plain wrong.

how much new money US government prints daily? U.S. Bureau of Engraving and Printing prints $541 mln daily, but 95% are just replacing old and worn out banknotes so actual number of new money is $27 mln daily. That gives it $540 mln new dollars printed in first 20 days of January 2018 by US government.

The result:

Tether: 700 mln USD

US Government: 540 mln USD

unnamed Taiwanese – Virginean Isles company won against the Federal Reserve!

 who is behind Bitfinex and there is no entity data, no telephone, no address, there is not even a contact form, nothing. yeah, we know, it's a criminal gang but this gang won't give you the funds back once they will exit. 

[TheQuin]

no basis in fact ? Where is the Tether audit?

As you well know the report was published.

Even if it hadn't been how would that 'fact' prove that Tether was a fraud?

[mayax]

no basis in fact ? Where is the Tether audit?

As you well know the report was published.

Even if it hadn't been how would that 'fact' prove that Tether was a fraud?

the "audit" is that someone called "Craig Sellars" assures the sheep that Tethers are backed by USD at the North American Blockchain conference. He didn't provice any piece of paper as proof.   

[TheQuin]

the "audit" is that someone called "Craig Sellars" assures the sheep that Tethers are backed by USD at the North American Blockchain conference. He didn't provice any piece of paper as proof.   

You don't seem to understand the concept of proof.

I will ask you again how does that PROVE that Tether is a scam?

[Samarkand]

...

 who is behind Bitfinex and there is no entity data, no telephone, no address, there is not even a contact form, nothing. yeah, we know, it's a criminal gang but this gang won't give you the funds back once they will exit.  

Actually, at least a few people that are in the upper Bitfinex and Tether management
team are publicly known. I recently complained that the names of the executives were
removed from the Tether website, but it seems they are back there.

https://tether.to/about-us/

On the other hand, @Bitfinexed posted this interesting snapshot of the Tether
website from 2015:


They obviously don´t mention that selling point anymore, but this could
theoretically imply that a lot of funds from dubious sources (e.g. ransomware proceeds)
could have ended up in the Tether reserves.

And before you say it @TheQuin, I know that this is conjecture on my part and
could very well turn out to be wrong. But I think it should be allowed to voice different
opinions in a public discussion forum.

[mayax]

the "audit" is that someone called "Craig Sellars" assures the sheep that Tethers are backed by USD at the North American Blockchain conference. He didn't provice any piece of paper as proof.  

You don't seem to understand the concept of proof.

I will ask you again how does that PROVE that Tether is a scam?

They are printing fake money, therefore manipulating the market. When someone sell BTC to USDT they keep their value in USD but nobody is up fronting the money.

They claim that every USDTs are backed by real $.

If that’s the case, it may be alright. But there’s NO proof of that and they “print” BILLIONS of new USDTs every time they are needed (aka when there’s a crash) manipulating the market by buying tokens at the current $ values.

They have to provide the proof of the USD reserve. Until now, they printed MORE than 2 billions USDT. They must have these money in bank accounts.

What bank accounts when Wells Fargo banned them and they opened a new public bank account 2-3 months ago?

[TheQuin]

They obviously don´t mention that selling point anymore, but this could
theoretically imply that a lot of funds from dubious sources (e.g. ransomware proceeds)
could have ended up in the Tether reserves.

I'm not 100% sure if that screenshot is saying that they used to sell USDT for Bitcoins or that they were just pointing out you could use an exchange to get them.

What do you mean by 'in the Tether reserves'? Surely all USD they hold in bank accounts must have been deposited as USD. If you mean people having Tether wallets or holding Tether on exchanges isn't that then like arguing that the Federal Reserve is at fault if funds from dubious sources are held in $100 bills?

Edit: I think I've worked out why they took that off the website. Now Bitfinex requires verification to be able to withdraw USDT. Did they not require it before?

And before you say it @TheQuin, I know that this is conjecture on my part and
could very well turn out to be wrong. But I think it should be allowed to voice different
opinions in a public discussion forum.

I've got no problem with conjecture and differing opinions. It's usually the way these things are presented that I disagree most with.

They must have these money in bank accounts.

You finally got something right. As we have discussed many times before, an NYC accountancy firm verified this fact only a few months ago. Most companies are only audited annually and it would be rather odd if they were required to do it all the time just because some anonymous bloggers are publishing false allegations about them.

[Samarkand]

...

What do you mean by 'in the Tether reserves'? Surely all USD they hold in bank accounts must have been deposited as USD. If you mean people having Tether wallets or holding Tether on exchanges isn't that then like arguing that the Federal Reserve is at fault if funds from dubious sources are held in $100 bills?

...

I´m not sure if that is sufficient proof for you, but you should read this
reddit post by bfx_drew:


The bolded part of your post would be wrong if this is indeed true.

The source of funds could potentially be a problem, because unlike the Federal
Reserve Tether could be shutdown by US authorities (some people already are
comparing Tether to LibertyReserve, which was eventually shutdown after years
of operation).

...


Edit: I think I've worked out why they took that off the website. Now Bitfinex requires verification to be able to withdraw USDT. Did they not require it before?

...

I´m not sure. I´ve only deposited BTC into Bitfinex and all my withdrawals
were made in Bitcoin, too.

[TheQuin]

I´m not sure. I´ve only deposited BTC into Bitfinex and all my withdrawals
were made in Bitcoin, too.

Same here but if you go to the Withdrawal or Deposit page for USD or USDT it says you need to be verified. What I don't know is how long that has been the case. Both that archive and bfx_drew's comments to me indicate they were talking about it being possible to deposit BTC and withdraw USD or USDT. So my guess is that they tightened it up and added the KYC verification for that very reason. To protect themselves from possible legal actions.

This is really just a story about the evolution of regulations and the exchanges having to change the way they do business to keep themselves within them.


As for this bit: "Surely all USD they hold in bank accounts must have been deposited as USD."

What I mean is that someone must have deposited the USD to Tether. After that, they may well have been traded to someone on or off an exchange for BTC but that person is not the source of Tethers funds.

Edit: Reading it again that bfx_drew comment doesn't make any sense. To issue Tether there must be someone 'writing a cheque' for it. Not necessarily direct to Tether, they could deposit USD on an exchange and then the exchange buys from Tether.

[mayax]

I´m not sure. I´ve only deposited BTC into Bitfinex and all my withdrawals
were made in Bitcoin, too.

Same here but if you go to the Withdrawal or Deposit page for USD or USDT it says you need to be verified. What I don't know is how long that has been the case. Both that archive and bfx_drew's comments to me indicate they were talking about it being possible to deposit BTC and withdraw USD or USDT. So my guess is that they tightened it up and added the KYC verification for that very reason. To protect themselves from possible legal actions.

This is really just a story about the evolution of regulations and the exchanges having to change the way they do business to keep themselves within them.


As for this bit: "Surely all USD they hold in bank accounts must have been deposited as USD."

What I mean is that someone must have deposited the USD to Tether. After that, they may well have been traded to someone on or off an exchange for BTC but that person is not the source of Tethers funds.

Edit: Reading it again that bfx_drew comment doesn't make any sense. To issue Tether there must be someone 'writing a cheque' for it. Not necessarily direct to Tether, they could deposit USD on an exchange and then the exchange buys from Tether.

what buys from Tether? useless tokens?

yeah, someone is buying 2 billions USDT from an anonymous company...     any other bullshit?

[TheQuin]

what buys from Tether?

It's who not what. A large and ever growing variety of customers. Taking a quick look back through your posting history I see you have been predicting the imminent collapse of Bitfinex and Tether for a couple of years now, so I do understand how frustrating you must find it to see them being so successful.