PRISM - Who else is disgusted by this?

[BitcoinFX]

Chaos Computer Club [29c3] - Not my department - a talk by Jacob Appelbaum - Lead Tor developer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mnuofn_DXw

This keynote presentation is one of the most important talks of our time and a must watch for everyone.

Yes 'the entire history of you' of everyone in fact, kept for at least 100 years! Who is going to watch the watchers?

Aside from the privacy implications and breach of all our human rights, perhaps Jaron Lanier has a very valid point that governments and big internet companies etc. should really be paying us to use our data. Its our data after all. Instead they steal our data and aim to punish those who report on or make others aware of such injustices.  

Jaron Lanier on the future of the web - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjveRsCxypU

We headed for a THX1138 dystopia ? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THX1138

Google and the World Brain - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vxIveocxjM

For H.G. Wells the 'World Brain' had to contain "All that was learnt and known, and that was being learnt and known"

Everyone want to get a google glass now ? - https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_glass

Ronald J Deibert at TEDxToronto - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAJ6BtZDhUk

Are we all to be guilty of 'thought crime' http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_crime and the injustices of invalid, incorrect, misconstrued, misinterpreted or perhaps manipulated data ?

PRISM is really just the tip of the iceberg: https://wikipedia.org/wiki/FinFisher

I doubt that anything like PRISM can make for a better, safer or fairer world. Disgusting seems to be an understatement.


I'll recommend Charlie Brooker's - Black Mirror - TV series: https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Mirror_(TV_series) "...about the way we live now – and the way we might be living in 10 minutes' time if we're clumsy."

[Schleicher]

Speaking of people who think they have nothing to hide...
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/01/government-tracking-google-searches

Well, they were being asked questions.
Nothing else happened.

Suffolk County Criminal Intelligence Detectives received a tip from a Bay Shore based computer company regarding suspicious computer searches conducted by a recently released employee. The former employee's computer searches took place on this employee's workplace computer.

[Nik1ab]

Speaking of people who think they have nothing to hide...
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/01/government-tracking-google-searches

Well, they were being asked questions.
Nothing else happened.

Suffolk County Criminal Intelligence Detectives received a tip from a Bay Shore based computer company regarding suspicious computer searches conducted by a recently released employee. The former employee's computer searches took place on this employee's workplace computer.

Yeah, just from SEARCHING ON GOOGLE. Everyone who says that "nothing to hide" thing is more than just stupid.

[Nik1ab]

I'd rather use DuckDuckGo, it's the best existing search engine in my oppinion.
Here is why: https://duckduckgo.com/about

[tvbcof]

Actually being secretive is probably the most sure-fire way to call attention to oneself, and once under the microscope one will need a truly extraordinary amount of technical ability to operate privately.  Unless you are a geek among geeks you probably don't have much of a chance if you are a person of significant interest.
....

I'd disagree completely.   Here is why.  We routinely use SSL, is that "secretive"?  Nope, because it is common.  Many, many people use VPNs, if someone adopts such use is that "secretive"?  Nope.  Carry this forward with various other techniques and you see the flaw in the logic.  I recently quit using google's services entirely.  Does that mean I "called attention to myself?"

"Once under the microscope"

REALLY?  Whose microscope exactly?

The NSA?  The IRS?  Eric Holder's crime gang?  Any of 50 commercial companies who want your data?

In my opinion, government and private company snooping falls into the malware/virus/worm category of nuisances.  And people have found anti virus programs to be very popular.  Similar for many other things that protect the little guy against "people who would steal their data".  So our protecting against outsiders is not new at all.

If you are just pilfering copyrighted material you probably don't have much to worry about.  Unless you come under a situation where someone wants to throw the book at you for some other reason.

Those who have either political or financial operations going on may wish to become familiar with packet analysis and the framework of backbone network taps exposed (most recently) by Snowden.  Or solicit the advice of someone who does understand these things.  Probably also someone who can build a full OS from source code.

It may also be worthwhile to consider how to achieve necessary network communications using systems which can operate in 'batch mode' rather than in real-time.  High and random latencies probably have the potential to be very difficult to analyze.  Indeed, the small packet size and 10 minute block frequency are one of the things that gave me a lot of hope for Bitcoin in the early days.  It already has several features needed for security in this regard.

Again, run-of-the-mill privacy buffs probably don't have much to fear.  This because they don't have much to hide and because failure is an option.

[cWq34#9tH-3]

Again, run-of-the-mill privacy buffs probably don't have much to fear.  This because they don't have much to hide and because failure is an option.

I vehemently disagree with that position. A position that would have almost every founder and every soldier who fought and died for freedom spinning in their graves - no to forget how disgusted it would and should make any living relatives who lost loved ones in freedoms name.

And Yes, We ALL have much too fear from this: however, with that being said, at this exact point in time - if you are not doing anything illegal AND you have not expressed any discontent then you're probably okay. But it's all being held and so you better not ever grow a dissenting opinion or a conscience or principles - or to otherwise accidentally or inadvertently get on their radar. And I don't know about you but giving that much power to them AND also giving up my right to dissent, well that is about as UnAmerican as you can get and it disgusts me to the core (as it should every thinking and aware human being).

[bernard75]

There we go:
America-freedom-wars and unamerican
/Getting popcorn

[cWq34#9tH-3]

There we go:
America-freedom-wars and unamerican
/Getting popcorn

Just because those words have been played so loosely with and tossed around so much that doesn't mean that they aren't still super important. Now this is some incredibly big shit going on here. Makes me wonder....Why don't you care?

[Nik1ab]

There we go:
America-freedom-wars and unamerican
/Getting popcorn

Just because those words have been played so loosely with and tossed around so much that doesn't mean that they aren't still super important. Now this is some incredibly big shit going on here. Makes me wonder....Why don't you care?

That's what I'm questioning all the time.. Why don't people care?

[World]

X-KEYSCORE anyone?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data
unbelievable what is already happening

[Spendulus]

Actually being secretive is probably the most sure-fire way to call attention to oneself, and once under the microscope one will need a truly extraordinary amount of technical ability to operate privately.  Unless you are a geek among geeks you probably don't have much of a chance if you are a person of significant interest.
....

I'd disagree completely.   Here is why.  We routinely use SSL, is that "secretive"?  Nope, because it is common.  Many, many people use VPNs, if someone adopts such use is that "secretive"?  Nope.  Carry this forward with various other techniques and you see the flaw in the logic.  I recently quit using google's services entirely.  Does that mean I "called attention to myself?"

"Once under the microscope"

REALLY?  Whose microscope exactly?

The NSA?  The IRS?  Eric Holder's crime gang?  Any of 50 commercial companies who want your data?

In my opinion, government and private company snooping falls into the malware/virus/worm category of nuisances.  And people have found anti virus programs to be very popular.  Similar for many other things that protect the little guy against "people who would steal their data".  So our protecting against outsiders is not new at all.

If you are just pilfering copyrighted material you probably don't have much to worry about.  Unless you come under a situation where someone wants to throw the book at you for some other reason.

Those who have either political or financial operations going on may wish to become familiar with packet analysis and the framework of backbone network taps exposed (most recently) by Snowden.  Or solicit the advice of someone who does understand these things.  Probably also someone who can build a full OS from source code.

It may also be worthwhile to consider how to achieve necessary network communications using systems which can operate in 'batch mode' rather than in real-time.  High and random latencies probably have the potential to be very difficult to analyze.  Indeed, the small packet size and 10 minute block frequency are one of the things that gave me a lot of hope for Bitcoin in the early days.  It already has several features needed for security in this regard.

Again, run-of-the-mill privacy buffs probably don't have much to fear.  This because they don't have much to hide and because failure is an option.

I think you did not grasp what I was saying (but in response, you've made some very interesting points about latency I'll look into).

The right question is not the extent to which one has done wrong and must act to cover it up or hide it.  That's the actual reverse of the right question.

Assume that political coupled with commercial forces will act to protect their entrenched interests, using the data.  Assume this is a general current and future trend, and that it does not pertain to any particular party or leader.  Assume that it is a problem world wide, over, let us say, the next three decades.

The right question is the nature of the future of freedom.

[tvbcof]

Again, run-of-the-mill privacy buffs probably don't have much to fear.  This because they don't have much to hide and because failure is an option.

I vehemently disagree with that position. A position that would have almost every founder and every soldier who fought and died for freedom spinning in their graves - no to forget how disgusted it would and should make any living relatives who lost loved ones in freedoms name.

And Yes, We ALL have much too fear from this: however, with that being said, at this exact point in time - if you are not doing anything illegal AND you have not expressed any discontent then you're probably okay. But it's all being held and so you better not ever grow a dissenting opinion or a conscience or principles - or to otherwise accidentally or inadvertently get on their radar. And I don't know about you but giving that much power to them AND also giving up my right to dissent, well that is about as UnAmerican as you can get and it disgusts me to the core (as it should every thinking and aware human being).

This can double as a response to ~spendus also.

I said 'fear' rather than 'reject' or 'fight'.  These surveillance programs are extremely dangerous.  Snowden put it best when he said 'turn-key system for tyranny.'  If the system is not dismantled or successfully attacked it is just a matter of time before the key is turned.

One of the points I was getting at in the trimmed text was that the system is not going to be effective and in fact will probably be counterproductive for catching 'bad guys' who are smart enough to be an actual 'threat.'  The XKeyscore docs said as much...they capture almost everything the normal user does online.  This system targets 'normal' users and that point is very important.  (BTW, I'll bet that 'normal' includes using VPNs and DuckDuckGo, and again, that doing so simply produces an extra flag tagging the user for more exhaustive analysis.)  The most productive battles at this phase are going to be geared towards shaping public perception and pointing out the disturbing nature of these systems will help.

You can use privacy tools on an individual level, but they will only really be effective if a large number of people are using them (and, of course, that they are not themselves mis-designed for mitigating the actual threats or worse still, honeypots.)  If only a small fraction of people are using such tools it would take only a false flag event to produce justification for shutting them down since few people will understand anything but the mainstream media line that they are 'tools for terrorists' and even fewer will actually be personally effected.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

https://inputs.io/illusion/project

[tvbcof]

https://inputs.io/illusion/project

Sweet!  A solution of this general nature will kill several birds with one stone.

[freedomno1]

https://inputs.io/illusion/project

And I thought the true solution was to implement a search engine utilizing the namecoin design with a different protocol hehe nice idea TF

[over1977v]

Its your responsibility to not give out informations you dont want to

[Spendulus]

https://inputs.io/illusion/project

Sweet!  A solution of this general nature will kill several birds with one stone.

I like it.  In fact since I've stopped using the Chrome spybrowser, I can start using it again just as a identity-spam machine.  Give someone a list of a million sets of personal data and he can generate a million identity-spam copies of Chrome.

Think of the possibilities:  Your spam against their evil.

Take that Google.

**********************

More general statement of the user's problem.

Request:  app on phone link to/read contacts private data?
Request:  facebook, app read contacts and private data?
Request:  Computer app, read and link to Facebook?
Request:  Linkedin, read contacts?
Request:  Google+, link to .....

And you have really no way to know what any of these services is actually doing, do you?

[tvbcof]

Generally speaking, it should not be terribly difficult to overload or confuse many of the survailence systems when the details of how the function are leaked or inferred.  Similarly, sprinkling a little extra 'doubt' into things makes the systems vastly less usable.  At least unless things get so bad that there is summary punishment on suspicion.  We see this (summary execution based on suspicion) in the 'signature strike' drone activity, but so far only on foreign soil.  If/when widespread use of the general technique moves domestic in a big way there will be a significant social backlash since white people will have friends and relatives who are impacted.

Along these lines, I by happenstance receive a spam mail every few minutes because I've owned my domain for decades.  I also invent a new e-mail address for each different use.  It was not my initial plan to thwart analysis, but it's probably causing a lot of grief for the poor schmuck who pulls me up on his XKeyscore terminal.

[Spendulus]

Generally speaking, it should not be terribly difficult to overload or confuse many of the survailence systems when the details of how the function are leaked or inferred.  Similarly, sprinkling a little extra 'doubt' into things makes the systems vastly less usable.  At least unless things get so bad that there is summary punishment on suspicion.  We see this (summary execution based on suspicion) in the 'signature strike' drone activity, but so far only on foreign soil.  If/when widespread use of the general technique moves domestic in a big way there will be a significant social backlash since white people will have friends and relatives who are impacted.

Along these lines, I by happenstance receive a spam mail every few minutes because I've owned my domain for decades.  I also invent a new e-mail address for each different use.  It was not my initial plan to thwart analysis, but it's probably causing a lot of grief for the poor schmuck who pulls me up on his XKeyscore terminal.

Most of the posters to this thread I have learned something I did not think of previously.

Rather unusual...

[cWq34#9tH-3]

Its your responsibility to not give out informations you dont want to

This cannot be realistically done by most people in today's modern society. The internet has become a necessary part of life for most of us.

BTW, it seems that tor is having some sort of "outage" and may be under attack because a great many sites are down. Some onion posters are claiming that tor sites are "updating" but that's crazy - how could some 80% of the sites that I normally visit all be updating at the same time? Plus very few sites work when random surfing.