2013-06-13 Latest from FinCEN

[BCB]

http://www.fincen.gov/news_room/speech/pdf/20130613.pdf

[RodeoX]

Wow, that was super interesting and positive. Clearly FinCen is not trying to kill bitcoin. Hell, they seem almost fond of the idea. 

[Severian]

However, equally important is the need to ensure integrity and transparency.

I didn't know that Fincen also dabbled in comedy.

[acoindr]

.. Clearly FinCen is not trying to kill bitcoin. ...

Don't give them undue credit. They couldn't kill Bitcoin if they wanted to (and they know it). Bitcoin is global.

The whole thing seems to be about identifying the difference in their perspective on something like Liberty Reserve versus Bitcoin, and how they see the opportunities Bitcoin can bring. Hopefully they mean that, but the last paragraph is what I found most interesting:

However, I would like to close with a challenge to our great innovators: extend your focus to devising creative solutions for preventing the abuse of virtual currencies by criminals, such as those who would exploit children. We all stand to benefit from such innovation, and the related transparency and integrity to our financial system.

Sorry FinCEN that's no more possible than doing so with how criminals use cash. Cash can be used anonymously too, and dollars are probably responsible for financing most of the world's criminal activity as the world's reserve currency. But people are not to blame the dollar for how some people use it, no more than people are to blame guns for the crimes committed with them. These are only tools.

[malevolent]

Disgusting as usual.
These apparatchiks are using the well-being of children as an argument to legitimize the immoral use force of against innocent businesses and people who cannot afford millions to engage in legal Bitcoin businesses.

[RoadToHell]

from the cover page...

UNITED STATES INSTITUTE OF PEACE

Sounds like 1984 all over again.

[_mr_e]

So when it says, "Those who are intermediaries in the transfer of virtual currencies from one person to
another person, or to another location, are money transmitters that must register with FinCEN as
MSBs, unless an exception applies" does this apply to miners? If so they are most definitely trying to kill bitcoin as the network security would be destroyed by such a regulation on miners.

[Severian]

from the cover page...

UNITED STATES INSTITUTE OF PEACE

Sounds like 1984 all over again.

Bunch of war mongers and chicken hawks at that there Peace Institute:

http://www.usip.org/aboutus/board.html

[cypherdoc]

overall very positive.

they just want to regulate the exchanges.

users/miners unaffected.

[RodeoX]

Did you guys even read it? This is a positive sign.

[Severian]

overall very positive.

they just want to regulate the exchanges.

users/miners unaffected.

I read it a little differently. It sounds like they're claiming a wide territory:

Those who are intermediaries in the transfer of virtual currencies from one person to another person, or to another location, are money transmitters that must register with FinCEN as MSBs, unless an exception applies.

[Severian]

Did you guys even read it? This is a positive sign.

It's never positive when the government puts its eye on your business.

[cypherdoc]

overall very positive.

they just want to regulate the exchanges.

users/miners unaffected.

I read it a little differently. It sounds like they're claiming a wide territory:

Those who are intermediaries in the transfer of virtual currencies from one person to another person, or to another location, are money transmitters that must register with FinCEN as MSBs, unless an exception applies.

yes, but she says flat out that users can buy goods or services w/o any restrictions.  that, at least, allows the economy to keep growing.

and what else can you reasonably expect them to do about the exchanges?  whether or not they'll be able to enforce this overseas is another matter.

[QuantPlus]

Disgusting as usual.
These apparatchiks are using the well-being of children as an argument to legitimize the immoral use force against innocent businesses and people who cannot afford millions to engage in legal Bitcoin businesses.

Exactly... this is right out of the Nazi/Soviet Playbook.

The nice lady mentioned "exploitation of children" at least 4 separate times...
When Bitcoin has absolutely nothing to do with such evil.

US Govt: "Do whatever we say no matter how Draconian... or you favor "exploitation of children".

[RoadToHell]

Did you guys even read it? This is a positive sign.

Yes, I read it.  I thought it ended abruptly.  The take away is that virtual currencies are here and becoming more prevalent.  Virtual currencies are under our domain of control.  Bitcoin is on par with Liberty Reserve.  Now let's adjourn for our closed-door meeting where the agenda is What to do with bitcoin.

[Severian]

and what else can you reasonably expect them to do about the exchanges? 

I don't think reason has much to do with it. Fastcash4bitcoins was shut down for merely buying coins, not for exchanging them.

I don't think the Feds have much of a clue what to do so they're doing the only thing they know how to do: exert authority willy-nilly until the problem is subdued.

[cypherdoc]

Disgusting as usual.
These apparatchiks are using the well-being of children as an argument to legitimize the immoral use force against innocent businesses and people who cannot afford millions to engage in legal Bitcoin businesses.

Exactly... this is right out of the Nazi/Soviet Playbook.

The nice lady mentioned "exploitation of children" at least 4 separate times...
When Bitcoin has absolutely nothing to do with such evil.

US Govt: "Do whatever we say no matter how Draconian... or you favor "exploitation of children".

she mentioned the word "children" three times.

not one of the times did she try to tie exploitation of children to Bitcoin or virtual currencies in general.

[CurbsideProphet]

overall very positive.

they just want to regulate the exchanges.

users/miners unaffected.

I read it a little differently. It sounds like they're claiming a wide territory:

Those who are intermediaries in the transfer of virtual currencies from one person to another person, or to another location, are money transmitters that must register with FinCEN as MSBs, unless an exception applies.

Right, an intermediary, or a third party is a money transmitter.  A miner moving Bitcoin to an exchange has no middleman.  A miner purchasing goods directly from a store uses no third party.  It's the intermediary that has to register, not the miner.

[QuantPlus]

Disgusting as usual.
These apparatchiks are using the well-being of children as an argument to legitimize the immoral use force against innocent businesses and people who cannot afford millions to engage in legal Bitcoin businesses.

Exactly... this is right out of the Nazi/Soviet Playbook.

The nice lady mentioned "exploitation of children" at least 4 separate times...
When Bitcoin has absolutely nothing to do with such evil.

US Govt: "Do whatever we say no matter how Draconian... or you favor "exploitation of children".

she mentioned the word "children" three times.

not one of the times did she try to tie exploitation of children to Bitcoin or virtual currencies in general.

In the 20th century people like you were called "useful idiots".

[epetroel]

Exactly... this is right out of the Nazi/Soviet Playbook.

The nice lady mentioned "exploitation of children" at least 4 separate times...
When Bitcoin has absolutely nothing to do with such evil.

US Govt: "Do whatever we say no matter how Draconian... or you favor "exploitation of children".

To be fair, it seems the event at which the speech was made was sponsored by the International Centre for Missing & Exploited Children (see second sentence of the speech) so of course she was tying this in to that theme.