Activity & new membergroup limits

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

I think a better way to do this and avoid all complaints is to make it so that nearly everyone ended up with a higher ranking. Just create new ranks.

It's like how the council here undervalues your land by ~15%, but increases the rate per $ of land value by 17.6%. You still pay the same amount, but nobody complains that their land is overvalued.

[dogie]

I like it, the old way provided incentive for people to spam, and spammers can be difficult to moderate, and time consuming.

Why is this so hard to understand... it doesn't prevent spammers at all. Now all you do is create 10 accounts, log in to each one once a week, reply to 14 topics. Wait a while, oh look boom 10 hero accounts which are much harder to identify as fakes, without the need to spam.

Problem?

[gweedo]

I like it, the old way provided incentive for people to spam, and spammers can be difficult to moderate, and time consuming.

Why is this so hard to understand... it doesn't prevent spammers at all. Now all you do is create 10 accounts, log in to each one once a week, reply to 14 topics. Wait a while, oh look boom 10 hero accounts which are much harder to identify as fakes, without the need to spam.

Problem?

If your that dedicated then you deserve to spam, waiting 14 months to scam people, is insane.

[freedomno1]

I like it, the old way provided incentive for people to spam, and spammers can be difficult to moderate, and time consuming.

Why is this so hard to understand... it doesn't prevent spammers at all. Now all you do is create 10 accounts, log in to each one once a week, reply to 14 topics. Wait a while, oh look boom 10 hero accounts which are much harder to identify as fakes, without the need to spam.

Problem?

If your that dedicated then you deserve to spam, waiting 14 months to scam people, is insane.

10 Portable Pirates

[BadBear]

I like it, the old way provided incentive for people to spam, and spammers can be difficult to moderate, and time consuming.

Why is this so hard to understand... it doesn't prevent spammers at all. Now all you do is create 10 accounts, log in to each one once a week, reply to 14 topics. Wait a while, oh look boom 10 hero accounts which are much harder to identify as fakes, without the need to spam.

Problem?

It isn't about preventing spammers, it's about removing the incentive for people to spam in the first place. Now there's less reason for people to make new accounts and spam their way to a thousand posts in a week or two. Also results in less need for moderation, which is a good thing for everyone.

We can't stop people from making fake accounts in order to scam, but we can stop them from spamming hundrends/thousands of posts for status.

[phantastisch]

I like how Matthew is trying to get rid of his tag with complaining in combination with this change. You earned this tag Matthew , fair and square. Was it worth the effort yet?

[QuestionAuthority]

I like it, the old way provided incentive for people to spam, and spammers can be difficult to moderate, and time consuming.

Why is this so hard to understand... it doesn't prevent spammers at all. Now all you do is create 10 accounts, log in to each one once a week, reply to 14 topics. Wait a while, oh look boom 10 hero accounts which are much harder to identify as fakes, without the need to spam.

Problem?

If your that dedicated then you deserve to spam, waiting 14 months to scam people, is insane.

10 Portable Pirates

You just gave me a business idea. It's like farming. It takes a while to get in the crop but eventually, cha-ching. You wouldn't even need to go all the way to Hero. You could have a membership menu of assorted flavors at different stages of development at different price levels. You could list them for sale at SA. LOL

[Rannasha]

this formula makes little sense
activity = min(time * 14, posts)?

activity = min(time * 14, posts), what does the , mean in there

it looks like  a = min(t*14,p)

could you be a little more explicit in the maths formula

min= minimum
time= time logged in
post= total post you made

but what is the ","? is it t*14/p, t*14*p, t*4 + g(p)?, min( t*14 || p)

I think he means min (t*14||p) to say z = g(x,y) is a 3 dimensional function

the logical "or" || should be used not ","

if(t*14<p)
{cout>>t*14;}
else
{cout>>p;}


also, I think the ignore needs some attention, as it breeds too much normative behavior by the sanction of the longest here which is death to vitality.

min(x,y) is a standard mathematical function that yields, unsurprisingly, the minimum of the 2 arguments. Just like any multi-argument function, it uses a comma to separates the different arguments. I don't see what's confusing about that.

using a logical or between arguments would make no sense, since t*14 and p are not boolean variables.

[Meni Rosenfeld]

Time spent logged in will also be useful to include as a component.

That can be manipulated very easily, so it's useless for something like this.

Ok.

And you should consider more sophisticated metrics such as sum of f(x) over all two-week periods, f(x) being x / (1 + sqrt(x/14)) or x / (1 + x/28).

Why is that better? I'm not sure that it can be done very easily/efficiently.

1. It's smoother. Instead of having an arbitrary threshold above which posts cease to count, the output varies continuously in the input of interests.
2. It requires to actually be active throughout the registration period. With your method, someone who has been registered for 104 weeks and posted once per 2 weeks (that is, not very active at all), can jack up his activity from 52 to 728 by spamming 700 posts at once. Whereas with my method there is an upper bound on how much you can boost your score by concentrated posting.

I do think a voting system can have merit as well, though that is much easier to screw up.

Also, if there isn't already, there should be an option in profile settings whether to display people's activity, post count, or both.

but what is the ","? is it t*14/p, t*14*p, t*4 + g(p)?, min( t*14 || p)

I think he means min (t*14||p) to say z = g(x,y) is a 3 dimensional function

the logical "or" || should be used not ","

if(t*14<p)
{cout>>t*14;}
else
{cout>>p;}

No, min(x, y) is a function of two variables which returns the lower one of them. min(t*14 || p) is meaningless, || works on boolean values, not on numbers.

[QuestionAuthority]

Time spent logged in will also be useful to include as a component.

That can be manipulated very easily, so it's useless for something like this.

Ok.

And you should consider more sophisticated metrics such as sum of f(x) over all two-week periods, f(x) being x / (1 + sqrt(x/14)) or x / (1 + x/28).

Why is that better? I'm not sure that it can be done very easily/efficiently.

1. It's smoother. Instead of having an arbitrary threshold above which posts cease to count, the output varies continuously in the input of interests.
2. It requires to actually be active throughout the registration method. With your method, someone who has been registered for 104 weeks and posted once per 2 weeks (that is, not very active at all), can jack up his activity from 52 to 728 by spamming 700 posts at once. Whereas with my method there is an upper bound on how much you can boost your score by concentrated posting.

I do think a voting system can have merit as well, though that is much easier to screw up.

Also, if there isn't already, there should be an option in profile settings whether to display people's activity, post count, or both.

but what is the ","? is it t*14/p, t*14*p, t*4 + g(p)?, min( t*14 || p)

I think he means min (t*14||p) to say z = g(x,y) is a 3 dimensional function

the logical "or" || should be used not ","

if(t*14<p)
{cout>>t*14;}
else
{cout>>p;}

No, min(x, y) is a function of two variables which returns the lower one of them. min(t*14 || p) is meaningless, || works on boolean values, not on numbers.

I like you but please be quiet you're killing my business plan. Didn't you hear theymos. He doesn't want your help.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

I was going to suggest something but I see Meni already said something like it. Right now, the system isn't very smart - it's still suspect able to "binge posting".

Every single post should give you up to 1 activity, but the actual amount it gives depends on the time since your last post.

For example, if your last post was 4 minutes ago, another post will add ~0.01. If your last post was 4 hours ago, another post would add ~0.7. If your last post was 2 days ago, another post would add 1. If your post last was 14 months ago, another post would add 1.

[Gordon Bleu]

but one Point isn't mentioned,

lot of People wouldn^t care to Answer all the Questions in this Forum
so it's also an incentive to more Quality not just spamming, because you don't wan't to get banned that would be a decrease in Income

So why the hassle, some Hero Member are posting way more useless Stuff, than that few Guys wo allegedly Spam

[Bogdan]

I am quite confused about this. The fastest possible way to rank up is to make one post every 2 weeks? So if I log in every other monday and make a post it would be the same as me posting a few times every day?

[QuestionAuthority]

I am quite confused about this. The fastest possible way to rank up is to make one post every 2 weeks? So if I log in every other monday and make a post it would be the same as me posting a few times every day?

Yes, currently. If I make 50 new user accounts and sit on them for a year. Making 10 new a month from there on out. I could sell them telling the buyer that they can go to hero immediately if they just make a few hundred posts after buying the account. I would then only have to make 100 posts a month to keep up with the system.

[Rampion]

This new system is retarded, all it does is demote me significantly for my account not being old. I have high time online, I spend a hell of a lot of time online, I'm active, I contribute.

But now I look the same as someone who has posted once every 2 weeks and has 10 posts....

Edit: Not what I meant, see:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=237597.msg2515986#msg2515986

Demoted? You are taking yourself too seriously, man. The new system is sound. People give too much importance to "ranks", and this way scammers cannot quickly spam to reach "hero" status.

[BadBear]

but one Point isn't mentioned,

lot of People wouldn^t care to Answer all the Questions in this Forum
so it's also an incentive to more Quality not just spamming, because you don't wan't to get banned that would be a decrease in Income

So why the hassle, some Hero Member are posting way more useless Stuff, than that few Guys wo allegedly Spam

A few? That's cute.

[Meni Rosenfeld]

I like you but please be quiet you're killing my business plan. Didn't you hear theymos. He doesn't want your help.

I believe theymos' question "how is that better?" wasn't rhetorical but rather an honest effort to understand what the best solution is.

I was going to suggest something but I see Meni already said something like it. Right now, the system isn't very smart - it's still suspect able to "binge posting".

Every single post should give you up to 1 activity, but the actual amount it gives depends on the time since your last post.

For example, if your last post was 4 minutes ago, another post will add ~0.01. If your last post was 4 hours ago, another post would add ~0.7. If your last post was 2 days ago, another post would add 1. If your post last was 14 months ago, another post would add 1.

There are issues with this as well. There is nothing wrong with two posts 4 minutes apart; the problem is if you have 100 posts with 4 minutes between each. The scoring should take that into account and penalize only over a larger scale.

[dogie]

I like it, the old way provided incentive for people to spam, and spammers can be difficult to moderate, and time consuming.

Why is this so hard to understand... it doesn't prevent spammers at all. Now all you do is create 10 accounts, log in to each one once a week, reply to 14 topics. Wait a while, oh look boom 10 hero accounts which are much harder to identify as fakes, without the need to spam.

Problem?

It isn't about preventing spammers, it's about removing the incentive for people to spam in the first place. Now there's less reason for people to make new accounts and spam their way to a thousand posts in a week or two. Also results in less need for moderation, which is a good thing for everyone.

We can't stop people from making fake accounts in order to scam, but we can stop them from spamming hundrends/thousands of posts for status.

You've not killed the spammers, you've killed everything within a 20 mile radius. Carpet bombing ftw.

[Rannasha]

I am quite confused about this. The fastest possible way to rank up is to make one post every 2 weeks? So if I log in every other monday and make a post it would be the same as me posting a few times every day?

No. The fastest possible way to rank up is to make one post per day. The 'activity' score is basically the lowest value of your postcount and the amount of days you've been registered.

The second component, amount of days registered is only updated in blocks of 14 every 2 weeks. Not sure why, but effectively it boils down to one activity point per day.

[Bogdan]

I hope this ends up working out well for legit traders, and also that the scammers don't get ahead of the system.