Garr255/Werner - Auction shilling

[crumbs]

How your defending Garr now turned to attacking the auction winner, trying to get his auction win turned back?
Yeah, you are to up your elbow in Garr's "business", and a miserable person on top of that. Just like your cry buddy Garr "I'm so sorry", sorry because he got caught, he tried to damage others and lied for 2 days to get the better of it, and has no other option now to come "clean". Bleh, too late

Oh, goat's just showing Garret some luv

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[Plazmotech]

forcing StarSoccer to bid BTC63

Did Gar255 put a gun to his head? No one forced the bidders to do anything.

Having an alt that artificially raises the bid price is similar to a secret reserve price in an auction. There's nothing inherently wrong with it except that Garr255 should have warned bidders that he might do it. I rank his actions there as "a bit shady," though he handled the fallout badly (due to inexperience, I suppose).

In any case, alts aren't against forum rules, and scammer tags are typically only given when an explicit agreement is broken. Garr255 never promised not to bid on his own auctions. He never even promised to honor the results of the auctions. Without contracts that say otherwise, auctions are only devices to assist in price negotiations.

Obviously no one physically forced anyone's hand, but Garr certainly invalidated StarSoccer's previous bid, by bidding with his alternate ID. Thus, StarSoccer had no other choice but to increment his own bid, if he wanted to win the auction. Clearly Garr had no intention of winning his own auction, and he knew that if by placing his bid, he was forcing all bidders to bid at a new price point. I wasn't involved here, so I'll chalk this up to semantics, but we should really be asking the bidders themselves if they felt like they were forced into submitting higher bids.

I will full-heatedly dispute that this is in any way similar to a reserve price. Reserves are always set before bidding begins, before interest in the item can be gauged. Additionally, in any respectable auction system, the reserve price can not move, like Garr had the ability to do with his Werner account. He was giving everyone the impression that there was broader market interest in the item. This is what we call creating a bidding frenzy.

If he wanted to win the auction then obviously he was willing to pay BTC63, no? He's still not forcing anybody to pay money they would not be willing to pay. This is equivalent to refusing a price in a bargain, something perfectly reasonable.

I don't see any problem in what Garr did, however I am disappointed he didn't warn people he was doing this. However, that's still not something worthy of a scammer tag.

[crumbs]

I don't see any problem in what Garr did, however I am disappointed he didn't warn people he was doing this. However, that's still not something worthy of a scammer tag.

Pretty much this.

Not sure if serious.

[ThatDGuy]

Rampion: I'm saddened that you don't think I'm worthy of participating in the community because of one blatantly stupid mistake. I've never done anything else wrong and do not plan to ever again.

Garr255, you do know that you have a quote from Ghandi in your signature.
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”  -- Mahatma Gandhi


Here are a few more:
There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed.

It is health that is real wealth and not pieces of gold and silver.

The moment there is suspicion about a person's motives, everything he does becomes tainted.

Try to live up to your hero.
Good to see it looks like you already started.

Confession of errors is like a broom which sweeps away the dirt and leaves the surface brighter and clearer. I feel stronger for confession.

Not sure about the last point.  Forced confessions are not the same as voluntary confessions.

[jhansen858]

Are you being serious right now? You're suggesting victimizing the victim again.

Seems like the only logical thing to do. He thinks he was a victim so fine, void the sale. If he on the other hand was not a victim and is happy, well don't void it. But really can he be happy with the deal and be a victim? No, not at all.

Are you serious? Its basic logic.

Game's been over already for some time man, you can get your arm out of Garr's ass now..

Your going to basic insulting and not trying to argue with my logic shows to me that you know I am right.

I can't agree with this position.  The choice should be up to the victim.  He shouldn't be placed between a rock and a hard place.  He clearly won the auction, and the person who overcharged has agreed to refund the overcharge.  He has stated this will correct the situation and that a full refund is not requested.  The morally correct thing to do is to honor this.

--edit - apparently goat was joking and being sarcastic.  Its just really hard to tell because hes on a whole new level. 

[Bees Brothers]

Did Gar255 put a gun to his head? No one forced the bidders to do anything.

Having an alt that artificially raises the bid price is similar to a secret reserve price in an auction. There's nothing inherently wrong with it except that Garr255 should have warned bidders that he might do it. I rank his actions there as "a bit shady," though he handled the fallout badly (due to inexperience, I suppose).

In any case, alts aren't against forum rules, and scammer tags are typically only given when an explicit agreement is broken. Garr255 never promised not to bid on his own auctions. He never even promised to honor the results of the auctions. Without contracts that say otherwise, auctions are only devices to assist in price negotiations.

Has anyone read the book “Defending the Undefendable” by Walter Block?
https://mises.org/store/Defending-the-Undefendable-P136.aspx

I think it is partly along those lines of libertarian thinking that Theymos has in regulating this forum and it helps to explain his comment about Gar’s auction shilling not deserving a scammer tag.  And while I have to cringe, because it is “a bit shady”, I agree with Theymos.

I think “Shilling” would be a very appropriate chapter to include in that book, so would Matthew’s bet (but I have no idea what the title of that chapter would be).

It seems, in the past, on this forum that if someone caused damage by violating a deal or contract, but made good on the contract, the scammer tag was not given or was removed.  While this auction didn’t have an explicit contract, there was an unspoken social expectation that there wouldn’t be a sock puppet increasing the price with phony bids.  With Gar paying the auction winners 5 btc, this should more than correct the financial wrong, and eliminate the call for a scammer tag.

His reputation however has taken some hits. And that is for him to rebuild and repair, which I am confident he will do.

I have had several trades and communication with Gar over the years (has it been that long already!?) all of which have caused me to increase my trust and respect for him.  I was surprised, shocked, and disappointed when this came to light.   With that said, I’m sure Gar will learn from this error and be more diligent in being honest in his future actions. I will continue to exchange with him.

In fact I might head over now and pick up a few Cognitive shares during this dip.

[ibminer]

Rampion: I'm saddened that you don't think I'm worthy of participating in the community because of one blatantly stupid mistake. I've never done anything else wrong and do not plan to ever again.

Garr255, you do know that you have a quote from Ghandi in your signature.
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”  -- Mahatma Gandhi


Here are a few more:
There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed.

It is health that is real wealth and not pieces of gold and silver.

The moment there is suspicion about a person's motives, everything he does becomes tainted.

Try to live up to your hero.
Good to see it looks like you already started.

Confession of errors is like a broom which sweeps away the dirt and leaves the surface brighter and clearer. I feel stronger for confession.

Confession after being caught is different than confession before being caught

[r3wt]

Only in the bitcoin world do you have morons paying 63BTC for a freaking asic. i can get you 1500 g/h worth for about 500 bucks from china. freaking noobs

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I will be sending you the coins soon.

Wait, you're sending starsoccer9 the coins that Garr255 said he was?

No way! No fuckin' way! Surely not! OMFG! Getting another cup of coffee before reading the next post. Coffee is my  popcorn.

[ibminer]

Only in the bitcoin world do you have morons paying 63BTC for a freaking asic. i can get you 1500 g/h worth for about 500 bucks from china. freaking noobs

Then you Sir, should be rich.

[Deprived]

I will be sending you the coins soon.

Wait, you're sending starsoccer9 the coins that Garr255 said he was?

No way! No fuckin' way! Surely not! OMFG! Getting another cup of coffee before reading the next post. Coffee is my  popcorn.

It's almost certainly someone pretending to be a sock-puppet of Garr's for a laugh.

[theymos]

It's almost certainly someone pretending to be a sock-puppet of Garr's for a laugh.

Yes, it is.

[kakobrekla]

Rampion: I'm saddened that you don't think I'm worthy of participating in the community because of one blatantly stupid mistake. I've never done anything else wrong and do not plan to ever again.

Bullshit.  It just didn't surface [yet]. Just go register a new handle, this one is toast.

[jhansen858]

Only in the bitcoin world do you have morons paying 63BTC for a freaking asic. i can get you 1500 g/h worth for about 500 bucks from china. freaking noobs

OH OH can i get 3 of them?

[nimda]

Rampion: I'm saddened that you don't think I'm worthy of participating in the community because of one blatantly stupid mistake. I've never done anything else wrong and do not plan to ever again.

Bullshit.  It just didn't surface [yet]. Just go register a new handle, this one is toast.

Unfortunately he'd have to register a new real name to get the credibility of this one

[kakobrekla]

Rampion: I'm saddened that you don't think I'm worthy of participating in the community because of one blatantly stupid mistake. I've never done anything else wrong and do not plan to ever again.

Bullshit.  It just didn't surface [yet]. Just go register a new handle, this one is toast.

Unfortunately he'd have to register a new real name to get the credibility of this one

I propose Ian Fakewell.

[Plazmotech]

I don't see any problem in what Garr did, however I am disappointed he didn't warn people he was doing this. However, that's still not something worthy of a scammer tag.

Pretty much this.

Not sure if serious.

Why?

[kibblesnbits]

Just to add fuel to a raging inferno.  My single arrived.  Just need to pick it up.  Order 1821.  What number was Garr?

[Pale Phoenix]

Wow, what a shit storm. I wonder if some of you realize how you look to relative newcomers hoping to find a serious community of professionals. Anyway, here's how things look from my vantage point:

theymos: It's your forum so run it as you please, but consider making sock puppets and shill bidding a violation of the TOS. You can't have a reputable trading platform when the admin allows these things to go on. Serious people are not going to bother trading here under these circumstances, and if there's one thing this forum needs, it's serious people.

Garr: You were caught red handed and the stain will follow you for quite some time. Recognize that you aren't as smart as you think you are (I know this is difficult when you're 18) as it will help you immensely in the future. Immediately compensate those people who were defrauded in the auctions and apologize individually to everyone affected. Redeem yourself by getting back to work earning money for your investors, and don't ever cut corners or rationalize cheating to yourself again.

Matthew: Dude, whether you are right or wrong, your incessant harping on the "injustice" you suffered clutters up nearly ever corner of this forum. I can't even read your posts anymore, as their particular blend of stridency and desperation has become completely repellant. Stop threatening theymos with starting a forum of your own, as he clearly doesn't care. Just fucking do it already. Put everything you have into it, and when it's a success you'll have the redemption that you'll never find here. I'm sure you're a perfectly nice guy, but you are wasting your time, and everyone else's. Man up and move on.

[ThatDGuy]

Just to add fuel to a raging inferno.  My single arrived.  Just need to pick it up.  Order 1821.  What number was Garr?

Looks like #1656:

This kind of angers me... BFL gives promoters the items out of line.

I have the absolute first SC Single order (#1656), and not even a shipping notification yet.