Bitcoin ATM: any news after San Diego?

[kik1977]

After the unveiling of the BitcoinATM in San Diego last May (https://bitcoinatm.com/), I heard nothing about it.
Despite some researches, I cannot find anything in the news. Have FinCen's regulations affected it? I guess so..
Do you have any news I wasn't able to find? Were you there in San Diego?

[empoweoqwj]

It was a tech demonstration. The idea that people would go around plonking bitcoin ATM machines around the world and the governments would just let them do so was at best naive, at worst entirely stupid.

There were even headlines flying around like "Cyprus gets world's first bitcoin ATM machine". What a load of tripe.

[kik1977]

It was a tech demonstration. The idea that people would go around plonking bitcoin ATM machines around the world and the governments would just let them do so was at best naive, at worst entirely stupid.

There were even headlines flying around like "Cyprus gets world's first bitcoin ATM machine". What a load of tripe.

I read that article, was a huge amount of BS written there! Still the underlying idea is pretty good.
In my work I do training and one of the topics is Bitcoin; many of the participants are pretty fast in understanding the basics but then I see their main obstacle: they all think the process of acquiring bitcoins is too cumbersome! Opening an account with some exchangers, providing the documents requested, wire-tranfer money.. nothing impossible to do, of course, but very few of them want to go through that..

Also meeting in person (https://localbitcoins.com/) sounds strange to many..

[empoweoqwj]

It was a tech demonstration. The idea that people would go around plonking bitcoin ATM machines around the world and the governments would just let them do so was at best naive, at worst entirely stupid.

There were even headlines flying around like "Cyprus gets world's first bitcoin ATM machine". What a load of tripe.

I read that article, was a huge amount of BS written there! Still the underlying idea is pretty good.
In my work I do training and one of the topics is Bitcoin; many of the participants are pretty fast in understanding the basics but then I see their main obstacle: they all think the process of acquiring bitcoins is too cumbersome! Opening an account with some exchangers, providing the documents requested, wire-tranfer money.. nothing impossible to do, of course, but very few of them want to go through that..

Also meeting in person (https://localbitcoins.com/) sounds strange to many..

Its partly a question of "critical mass" and network theory i.e. the value of the network is equal to the square of the numbers of people in that network. So if there are 1,000 people on the planet using bitcoin, that's only 1,000x1,000 people in the "bitcoin network", so you aren't likely to have a buddy (or buddy of a buddy) using bitcoin. Now if there were 1,000,000 people on the planet using bitcoin, the value of the network would be 1,000,000x1,000,000, you are *bound* to know someone who uses bitcoin, or has a friend that uses bitcoin.

The idea being that if you know somebody who owns bitcoins, you don't need to go to an exchange to get started, or even meet total strangers via localbitcoins, which I'm sure is scary as heck to most people even if they happen to live within the area. They are scared of being ripped off in some way because they are new to the process.

Once the "bitcoin network" is big enough, you will know someone, or know someone who knows someone who has bitcoins already, and you can just buy them straight from that trusted friend. How far we are away from that circumstance, I don't know. But its certainly a lot closer than having ATM machines dishing out bitcoins.

[franky1]

the only way i can see bitcoinATM work financially is this:

they employ 50 franchises (1 per US state) each franchisee pays for the licence of that state under the groups company name of bitcoinATM.

that franchisee then owns the rights to trade, maintain and work within the borders of that state on behalf of bitcoinATM.

bitcoinATM then send them a machine/bunch of machines and set the rates of pay (price above spot) so that the franchisee can see a nice income to recoup its 'buy in licence' and the bitcoinatm headoffice gets enough income to see profit after the bitcoinATM machine costs.

compared to:

having just one company buying all the licences and having to travel the entire width and height of USA for maintenance, installs etc is more expensive venture to attempt

the other plausible option is to speak to existing ATM vendors to add a extra feature on their platform for Bitcoin.

[jdbtracker]

Last I read they aren't bothering with the legalities; They are working as a manufacturer and the licensing for their jurisdiction is up to the customer.

[kik1977]

Last I read they aren't bothering with the legalities; They are working as a manufacturer and the licensing for their jurisdiction is up to the customer.

Sure, that' s the way I inteded it. Nevertheless what Franky said still apply to any company trying to put those ATMs in place and it seems to be a HUGE problem. Not sure whether the situation burocracy-wise is different in other jurisdictions..
Still I wonder if anyone is working on this (trying to get licensed specifically to put BTC ATMs in place)!

[Killdozer]

Sure, that' s the way I inteded it. Nevertheless what Franky said still apply to any company trying to put those ATMs in place and it seems to be a HUGE problem.

What huge problem? FinCEN said they are now regulating bitcoins, so all companies need licenses. Get the license and you are set...

[The Bitcoin Catalog]

Anyone is aware of this bitcoin ATM project from Lamassu Bitcoin Venture?
http://lamassubtc.com/

[kik1977]

Sure, that' s the way I inteded it. Nevertheless what Franky said still apply to any company trying to put those ATMs in place and it seems to be a HUGE problem.

What huge problem? FinCEN said they are now regulating bitcoins, so all companies need licenses. Get the license and you are set...

Huge=time consuming that's what I meant. Since you cannot register once for all but you need to be registered in all the 50 States. Not impossible, that's for sure, but you would agree you need a lot of: money, time.

[kik1977]

Anyone is aware of this bitcoin ATM project from Lamassu Bitcoin Venture?
http://lamassubtc.com/

Yes, although as said before, the problem isn't the technology, that is ready and available with more than one ATM model ready (or almost ready) to be shipped - is regulations.
Still curious to know if anyone has news about an "already established" BTC ATM anywhere in the world..

[the founder]

Unless you want FinCEN picking up ATM 15 minutes after they are installed you have to work out the legalities of it. 

That being stated,  the second that's clear you're going to see Bitcoin skyrocket in value.. that's the killer app...   because people could just trade in an out.. go to walmart.. cash in a few bitcoins get groceries... 

[kik1977]

That being stated,  the second that's clear you're going to see Bitcoin skyrocket in value.. that's the killer app...   because people could just trade in an out.. go to walmart.. cash in a few bitcoins get groceries... 

That's exactly why I am curious to find any news about it...

[mgio]

People understimate how difficult it is to get these licenses and how much they cost.

It can cost millions per state and a lot of record keeping must be kept.

The only way the bitcoin ATM could happen is if a large bank that already has ATMs (Bank of America, Citibank, etc) decides to get involved.


In other news, I'm still waiting for bitcoin debit card!

[BCB]

People understimate how difficult it is to get these licenses and how much they cost.

It can cost millions per state and a lot of record keeping must be kept.

The only way the bitcoin ATM could happen is if a large bank that already has ATMs (Bank of America, Citibank, etc) decides to get involved.


In other news, I'm still waiting for bitcoin debit card!

Actually it doesn't.

California is one of the most expensive states:
(d) A licensee that sells or issues payment instruments or stored
value shall maintain securities on deposit or a bond of a surety
company in an amount of no less than five hundred thousand dollars
($500,000) or 50 percent of the average daily outstanding payment
instrument and stored value obligations in California, whichever is
greater; provided that such amount shall not be more than two million
dollars ($2,000,000).
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=fin&group=02001-03000&file=2030-2043

New York, Texas Illinois and Florida are also expensive.

South Carolina and Montana do not require Money Transmission Licenses.

[Nagle]

Anyone is aware of this bitcoin ATM project from Lamassu Bitcoin Venture?
http://lamassubtc.com/

That's just a vending machine for Bitcoins.  It won't pay out cash for them.

[Funky Al]

Also meeting in person (https://localbitcoins.com/) sounds strange to many..

You don't have to meet up, you can do a bank transfer and they send the Bitcoin to your online wallet, it's then just a case of sending it to your local one.

[joesmoe2012]

Remember, for FinCEN you have to know your customer as well.

How are you going to verify and ensure the guy buying $20 worth of bitcoin is who he says he is?

[BCB]

How do you know the drug dealer doesn't have 20 mules each with 1000 20 dollar bills lining up at your machine to purchase bitcoin.

[QuestionAuthority]

Bitcoin ATM. lol

After all this time I still laugh when I think about it. Maybe they can name their ATMs "the Ellet". rolf

[legitnick]

I remember hearing about this a lot, then nothing. Strange, I wonder if it wasnt successful :/

[SilverVigilante]

i say we see some BitcoinATM's pop up in Canada first.
https://www.goldsilverbitcoin.com/north-american-union-shattered-canada-goes-laissez-faire-on-bitcoin-us-goes-draconian/

[kik1977]

Remember, for FinCEN you have to know your customer as well.

How are you going to verify and ensure the guy buying $20 worth of bitcoin is who he says he is?

I long thought about BTC-ATMs and KYC regulations and indeed it looks like a great obstacle to their adoption.

But then I thought about a recent trip I did to US and here I have my question..
Go to any Walmart and you find hundreds of "prepaid cards": I mean open loop prepaid cards, those that have the Visa or Mastercard logo. They also call them "gift cards". I watched people buying them and no ID was required, no identification of the customer, no questions. I asked and they told me they are ready to use, no after purchase online registration or similar.

That's what I cannot grasp: where is the difference? Why I can buy anonymously a prepaid card that I can use almost everywhere but they want to put all this limitations if I want to buy bitcoins?

As I said before, talking to literally hundreds of people about Bitcoin I noticed the biggest obstacle for many is the acquisition of bitcoins and I believe something like an ATM is the "missing link".

[jdbtracker]

Those are the gate keepers, you can do anything you like regardless of who you are but Bitcoin is so disruptive to their natural state of mind that they have to do something about it... Basically Visa and Mastercard get the go ahead because they are a known brand... Bitcoin is confusing the gate keepers so they are trying to apply everything to them. You could probably complain and attract their attention to the gift cards and have them removed... or you can get a really useful tip on how to bypass the system through a loop hole; just have to ask.

[BCB]

Remember, for FinCEN you have to know your customer as well.

How are you going to verify and ensure the guy buying $20 worth of bitcoin is who he says he is?

I long thought about BTC-ATMs and KYC regulations and indeed it looks like a great obstacle to their adoption.

But then I thought about a recent trip I did to US and here I have my question..
Go to any Walmart and you find hundreds of "prepaid cards": I mean open loop prepaid cards, those that have the Visa or Mastercard logo. They also call them "gift cards". I watched people buying them and no ID was required, no identification of the customer, no questions. I asked and they told me they are ready to use, no after purchase online registration or similar.

That's what I cannot grasp: where is the difference? Why I can buy anonymously a prepaid card that I can use almost everywhere but they want to put all this limitations if I want to buy bitcoins?

As I said before, talking to literally hundreds of people about Bitcoin I noticed the biggest obstacle for many is the acquisition of bitcoins and I believe something like an ATM is the "missing link".

kik1977,

Good point. 

1.  This is an example of selective enforcement of regulation. 

2.  This industry (the Prepaid-Industry) is much larger and more organized then the bitcoin community is and as such is better able to help lead the conversation with regulates and law makers in this space.  Many major US banks and corporations are involved in this space and rely on income from these fees which generate significant revenue.
http://www.nerdwallet.com/prepaid/


3.  This still doesn't mean there is not great concern that this is an entry point for laundering money and authorities are certainly looking at this. 

http://thehill.com/blogs/regwatch/pending-regs/290875-regulators-target-money-laundering-with-prepaid-cards

[kik1977]

3.  This still doesn't mean there is not great concern that this is an entry point for laundering money and authorities are certainly looking at this. 

I know BCB, I followed the topic in the last few years and from time to time I see some article like this (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2012/11/07/department-of-homeland-security-to-scan-payment-cards-at-borders-and-airports/). Everytime it seems that something is going to happen very soon but the time goes by and still I see no regulations put in place.
Then you see how quickly (more or less, but quicker than with Bitcoin) they jumped on Bitcoin to try and regulate it. The reason could be exactly what you said, "selective enforcement of regulation"!

Having said that, I wonder if there is anyone in the forum who is actually involved in the ATMs project and want to share some info about it, like at which stage they are, what are the problems they're facing, etc.

[dave111223]

The problem is that all the companies developing Bitcoin ATMs are located in a country that will never allow such a machine to exist.

Once some companies in Asia take up the task it will probably go from drawing board to street corner in a much shortly time.

[kik1977]

The problem is that all the companies developing Bitcoin ATMs are located in a country that will never allow such a machine to exist.

Once some companies in Asia take up the task it will probably go from drawing board to street corner in a much shortly time.

I know what you mean, but please consider that those companies are simply the ATMs' manufacturer. If they sell them to a Chinese company to be put in Beijing, then Chinese regulations will apply.

[legitnick]

The problem is that all the companies developing Bitcoin ATMs are located in a country that will never allow such a machine to exist.

Once some companies in Asia take up the task it will probably go from drawing board to street corner in a much shortly time.

Last time I checked China was still "Communist" I dont see the chinese government allowing bitcoin ATM's as it takes money out of their own state currency.

In the United States there is no law against a bitcoin atm so its not the countries fault.

It seems like not enough people are using the ATM's then expected.

[TObject]

Staples also sells prepaid credit cards that can be used anywhere. Heaven for embezzlers – order office supplies, and take your wife to a lobster dinner.

[threeip]

Staples also sells prepaid credit cards that can be used anywhere. Heaven for embezzlers – order office supplies, and take your wife to a lobster dinner.

As far as i know only the reloadable cards require ID to purchase. The once-off cards (which must be less than $500USD) do not require ID etc.

Can someone just take a food vending machine and put Casi coins etc in it? You could even argue it was the coin provider facilitating the exchange, maybe, as long as they knew what was going on.

[kik1977]

The problem is that all the companies developing Bitcoin ATMs are located in a country that will never allow such a machine to exist.

Once some companies in Asia take up the task it will probably go from drawing board to street corner in a much shortly time.

Last time I checked China was still "Communist" I dont see the chinese government allowing bitcoin ATM's as it takes money out of their own state currency.

In the United States there is no law against a bitcoin atm so its not the countries fault.

It seems like not enough people are using the ATM's then expected.

That's true, even though recently the Chinese Gov "allowed" this to be broadcasted on the national (and Gov controlled) TV: http://bitcoinexaminer.org/can-china-become-the-new-bitcoin-leading-country/

[kik1977]

Staples also sells prepaid credit cards that can be used anywhere. Heaven for embezzlers – order office supplies, and take your wife to a lobster dinner.

As far as i know only the reloadable cards require ID to purchase. The once-off cards (which must be less than $500USD) do not require ID etc.

Can someone just take a food vending machine and put Casi coins etc in it? You could even argue it was the coin provider facilitating the exchange, maybe, as long as they knew what was going on.

Threeip you're absolutely right! But is there any limit to the number of cards you can buy? No, AFAIK. So not a big problem if you want to use them for illicit purpouses..

[threeip]

I guess arms dealers/Wikileaks don't/can't take Visa?

[dave111223]

The problem is that all the companies developing Bitcoin ATMs are located in a country that will never allow such a machine to exist.

Once some companies in Asia take up the task it will probably go from drawing board to street corner in a much shortly time.

Last time I checked China was still "Communist" I dont see the chinese government allowing bitcoin ATM's as it takes money out of their own state currency.

In the United States there is no law against a bitcoin atm so its not the countries fault.

It seems like not enough people are using the ATM's then expected.

For example; I'm in Thailand.  I guarantee if could plonk down a bunch of ATMs at malls and it would be at least a few years before any government agent asked any questions.  At which point a back hander would probably buy me a few more years before I had to answer any real questions.

Sadly I lack the capital and skills required to maintain ATMs (I'm guessing the manufacturers will not be flying out from the US for onsite support?)

In the US, as someone previously mentioned, some agency would be loading your ATM into a van 15 minutes after you set it up.

A few factors come into play to make developing countries more viable for an ATM:
1) It's a freer market in general
2) Governments are slower/less inclined to get involved in new technologies.
3) Corruption can be used to bypass laws

You say Bitcoin ATMs are bad for the "state", but you fail to see that Bitcoin ATMs might be good for the local bureaucrat that has a shiny new gold chain and a hot tub.

[kik1977]

Some news from the thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248692.0, it's a pity they didn't post it here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23150740

Apparently there was a BTC ATM on the 39th floor above Canary Wharf: "I found a cash machine with a difference. This ATM chews up your £10 notes rather than spewing them out, and in return you get a computer code. This is the world's first Bitcoin cash machine and if the people showing it to me are to be believed, it shows us the future of money"

The place is the venue hosting the Bitcoin London conference, the biggest event about the crypto currency staged in the UK.
Is it just a demo ATM or are Automated Teller Machines ready to invade our streets? How did the guys at the Bitcoin London Conference get the authorisations (if any)?

[Perseus353]

From yesterday's conference in London, this is a picture I took of the demo machine by Josh and Zach Harvey of Lamassu. (http://lamassubtc.com/)



You scan the QR code of your wallet and then feed it cash -- and a bitcoin equivalent then gets credited to your wallet. The whole process takes seconds, and you then get another QR code of the transaction that you can verify on the blockchain.

It works pretty well. The source of bitcoins is their own stash and the price updates itself according to a weighted average of several exchanges. It can be set for different currencies and yesterday it was obviously set to sterling.

This was a prototype, but they're going to be selling these to merchants who can hook it up to their wallets.

[kik1977]

From yesterday's conference in London, this is a picture I took of the demo machine by Josh and Zach Harvey of Lamassu. (http://lamassubtc.com/)

You scan the QR code of your wallet and then feed it cash -- and a bitcoin equivalent then gets credited to your wallet. The whole process takes seconds, and you then get another QR code of the transaction that you can verify on the blockchain.

It works pretty well. The source of bitcoins is their own stash and the price updates itself according to a weighted average of several exchanges. It can be set for different currencies and yesterday it was obviously set to sterling.

This was a prototype, but they're going to be selling these to merchants who can hook it up to their wallets.

Thanks Perseus, it's very nice to hear from someone who was actually there at the conference. May I ask you a question? Apart from the display of the demo machine and their plans for the future, have you heard any discussion about the regulations sought for placing these machines?
It should be easier than putting an ATM since, strictly speaking, those are not ATMs since they allow you to buy bitcoins for fiat currency but not the other way around.. or maybe I haven't understood it correctly? Do they give the possibility to withdraw cash for bitcoins?

Thanks a lot...

[becoin]

Apparently there was a BTC ATM on the 39th floor above Canary Wharf: "I found a cash machine with a difference. This ATM chews up your £10 notes rather than spewing them out, and in return you get a computer code. This is the world's first Bitcoin cash machine and if the people showing it to me are to be believed, it shows us the future of money

As a vending machine selling digital product they must pay VAT. Do they?

[MagicBit15]

I thought this was a great idea too, what a great way to get people associate with bitcoin and implement it slowly into everyday and online use. Not to mention quick cash!!

[kik1977]

Apparently there was a BTC ATM on the 39th floor above Canary Wharf: "I found a cash machine with a difference. This ATM chews up your £10 notes rather than spewing them out, and in return you get a computer code. This is the world's first Bitcoin cash machine and if the people showing it to me are to be believed, it shows us the future of money

As a vending machine selling digital product they must pay VAT. Do they?

It all depends if the country where they're installed sees bitcoins as a currency or a commodity..

[Nagle]

This ATM chews up your £10 notes rather than spewing them out, and in return you get a computer code. This is the world's first Bitcoin cash machine...

No, just a vending machine, and not the first. When you can also put Bitcoins in and get cash out, then it's a ATM.

[kik1977]

A small update on the topic:

http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/16/bitcoin-atm-funds-first-run/

Quote:

Bitcoin startup Lamassu Bitcoin Ventures, the makers of a Bitcoin ATM which promises to eat your paper (fiat) money and spit Bitcoins into your digital wallet in return, have funded their initial production run of 15 units a few hours after kicking off pre-orders (via their website) — taking the bulk of payments in Bitcoin, fittingly.

Presumably that means they’ve booked $60,000-$75,000 in sales revenue for the initial production run — based on the $4,000-$5,000 per machine price-tag they talked about at the Bitcoin London conference last month. Lamassu is not, however, confirming how much revenue they’ve generated at this point.

What’s the point of a Bitcoin ATM? The aim is to lower the barrier of entry to the digital cryptocurrency — which still very much ‘reeks of geeks’ (and investors) at this still early stage in its development – by letting people swap banknotes for Bitcoin in person. Of course there are myriad ways to do fiat-to-Bitcoin currency exchanges online but the Bitcoin ATM doesn’t require the user to sign up to an online exchange service in order to get some Bitcoin. (Albeit, users of the ATM do need to have their own Bitcoin wallet to store their exchanged BTCs).

The Bitcoin ATM accepts paper currency only but there’s no minimum limit (yes, you can exchange $1 to get around 0.009 Bitcoin, at current exchange rates, if you really want). It only accepts cash, so no debit/credit card payments — a deliberate choice by its creators to keep their costs and complexity capped by not having to deal with banks.

They argue it also makes things simpler for purchasers of the ATM itself, being as they don’t have to gain bank approval to get the machine up and running. However they do warn that buyers still need to make sure they comply with any pertinent financial regulations in their own country (Bitcoin regulations can’t even charitably be called ‘a work in progress’ yet, and the Bitcoin policy confusion varies from country to country).

The startup says it has had more than 150 inquires about the machine ahead of production. Some of the countries that have put in pre-orders are Canada, Australia, New Zealand, U.S., Slovakia, Finland and Denmark, according to co-founder Zach Harvey.

While it’s funding the initial run from pre-orders and its own investment, Harvey said Lamassu may look to raise external funding in future. ”Investment is something we’re considering seriously for the next step of mass adoption,” he tells TechCrunch.

Lamassu expects to ship the first 15 units to buyers next month.

[fellowtraveler]

There's also an ATM based on Open-Transactions, you can check it out here:

http://openwallet.org/

It has an "App Store" and will support multiple different software products.

Some comments from the developer:

Skaag:  my ATM has no regulation obstacles here
Skaag:  you see, unlike a website, I know exactly where my kiosks are
Skaag:  so I can make sure it is not sold physically in states where it is not yet licensed to operate
Skaag:  My thoughts right now, is to just setup shop and start selling them
Skaag:  even before I have all the software products I want to sell
Skaag:  I can already mass produce them and ship them out
Skaag:  there's nothing really stopping me from doing that, if customers order
Skaag:  but my real dream is putting them in Africa
Skaag:  and that, by the way, is the reason I chose a fanless design, without disk drives, fans, or any other parts that are sensitive to heat.
Skaag:  I have this mechanism where I store nothing of importance on the kiosks
Skaag:  when the kiosk boots, it downloads a verification binary
Skaag:  that binary verifies the hardware was not tampered with
Skaag:  it collects data and sends back a hash
Skaag:  but the actual environment gets brought from a GIT repo over an SSL connection, on top of a VPN, on every boot
Skaag:  it has a GSM modem built-in
Skaag:  so you just stick a SIM card in it, and you're ready to go
Skaag:  it also has a wifi adapter, so if the location already has wifi, they can skip the GSM

[tspacepilot]

Bitcoin ATMs still sound convenient.  I predict some government will allow them somewhere, no?

[Killdozer]

Bitcoin ATMs still sound convenient.  I predict some government will allow them somewhere, no?

What makes you think they are "disallowed" somewhere?

[mrdavis]

Bitcoin ATMs still sound convenient.  I predict some government will allow them somewhere, no?

What makes you think they are "disallowed" somewhere?licenced

It is not "disallowed" in the US. However, the operator of the ATM would need to be a licensed money transmitter and would need to follow AML rules.

[kik1977]

Bitcoin ATMs still sound convenient.  I predict some government will allow them somewhere, no?

What makes you think they are "disallowed" somewhere?licenced

It is not "disallowed" in the US. However, the operator of the ATM would need to be a licensed money transmitter and would need to follow AML rules.

Can you please help me on this: Is it seen in the US as an ATM only if it gives you BTC in return to USD AND vice-versa

or

even if it only gives one BTC from USD? Isn't it seen, in this latter case, as a "vending machine"? It probably depends on the "status" of bitcoins, whether they're seen as a currency or not. That's my opinion but I would appreciate some motivated opinions! Thanks

[mrdavis]

http://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html

A couple snippets:

"An exchanger is a person engaged as a business in the exchange of virtual currency for real currency, funds, or other virtual currency."

"An administrator or exchanger that accepts and transmits a convertible virtual currency or buys or sells convertible virtual currency for any reason is a money transmitter under FinCEN's regulations, unless a limitation to or exemption from the definition applies to the person."


All the relvent sentence fragments combined:
A person engaged as a business in the exchange of virtual currency for real currency that buys or sells convertible virtual currency for any reason is a money transmitter under FinCEN's regulations

[TitanBTC]

Bitcoin ATMs still sound convenient.  I predict some government will allow them somewhere, no?

What makes you think they are "disallowed" somewhere?licenced

It is not "disallowed" in the US. However, the operator of the ATM would need to be a licensed money transmitter and would need to follow AML rules.

Can you please help me on this: Is it seen in the US as an ATM only if it gives you BTC in return to USD AND vice-versa

or

even if it only gives one BTC from USD? Isn't it seen, in this latter case, as a "vending machine"? It probably depends on the "status" of bitcoins, whether they're seen as a currency or not. That's my opinion but I would appreciate some motivated opinions! Thanks

Following up on Mr Davis, I had a long talk with the U.S. FinCEN about the definition of a "money services business" in regard to the physical bitcoins that I'm selling (like Casascius but with a proprietary system to prevent counterfeits/theft).  

They regulate any currency exchange and they view any company that accepts dollars and gives people bitcoins as a currency exchange.  I don't know about ATM specific laws, but the registration as a money services business seems to be what's holding people back.  It doesn't cost anything upfront but requires a TON of compliance procedures.   I'm still wading through it all, as my company is registered as an MSB.

[kik1977]

A small update on the topic: http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/28/robocoin-the-first-20000-bitcoin-atm-now-available-for-pre-order/

[/quote]
RoboCoin, a kiosk that allows you to trade Bitcoin for other currencies, is now available for pre-order and should be shipping for “Fall 2013.” Lest you decide to become the Bitcoin bank for your neighborhood, remember that the machine costs $20,000 ($18,500 for early birds) and can currently trade BTC for USD.
The device is essentially a hardened, ATM-like machine with biometric time locks and privacy-shielded touchscreen. It can accept and dispense cash (and is “International denomination-ready”) and is Wi-Fi and 3G-enabled.
According to a blog posting the team is ready to change the way Bitcoin is bought and sold.
“RoboCoin represents a compelling investment for business owners,” they write. “They’ll earn a percentage of transactions and attract Bitcoin’s loyal user-base, while also offering unprecedented access and ease-of-adoption to Bitcoin newcomers. Furthermore every Robocoin on the market increases Bitcoin liquidity and usage, putting upward pressure on the digital currency’s valuation, awareness, and legitimacy.”
Robocoin first surfaced in in San Jose at a Bitcoin conference and is directly competing with Lamassu Bitcoin Ventures Bitcoin ATM. This model connects directly to Mt. Gox or Bitstamp, two BTC exchanges, for instant funding.
Having a real, working ATM will add a considerably energy to the Bitcoin market. While these units are arguably expensive (a cheap ATM tops out at about $3,000) it’s clear that the back end is what matters here and not the box. Wheeling one of these into, say, a hacker conference or other con would get you plenty of traffic and improve the standing of Bitcoin in general. Once BTC to other currency transactions are commonplace, it’s clear that cryptocurrencies may have even more of a fighting chance.
[/quote]

[smoothie]

This going to help spread Bitcoin much farther and wider than ever before.

Spam that ATM around the world.

[thy]

Anyone is aware of this bitcoin ATM project from Lamassu Bitcoin Venture?
http://lamassubtc.com/

Yes, although as said before, the problem isn't the technology, that is ready and available with more than one ATM model ready (or almost ready) to be shipped - is regulations.
Still curious to know if anyone has news about an "already established" BTC ATM anywhere in the world..

I think there was a store about a BTC ATM in cyprus in the media a while ago.

[Nagle]

now available for pre-order

That's the sign of a scammer or an underfunded business which will probably fail.

Until they can ship as soon as you order, or slightly before, don't buy. Especially with Bitcoins.
Especially for a "Bitcoin ATM". It's not like there's a shortage of locations that don't already have a Bitcoin ATM.

[tspacepilot]

It's not like there's a shortage of locations that don't already have a Bitcoin ATM.

Nice negation work here.  I enjoyed parsing this.

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

The first Bitcoin ATM in the world will be placed in Canada, probably in downtown Vancouver somewhere.

[joesmoe2012]

    I thought there was one in Cyprus for a while?     

[cypherdoc]

now available for pre-order

That's the sign of a scammer or an underfunded business which will probably fail.

Until they can ship as soon as you order, or slightly before, don't buy. Especially with Bitcoins.
Especially for a "Bitcoin ATM". It's not like there's a shortage of locations that don't already have a Bitcoin ATM.

You still hanging around?

[QuestionAuthority]

Chase has about 16,000, BofA has about 18,000 and Wells Fargo about 12,000 ATMs. Between just three banks they can cover nearly every major city in the free world. Major networks like Star and Pulse increase that number to over 4 million locations worldwide. It will be all but impossible to compete with that kind of system. If the manufacturing cost of each Bitcoin ATM was $1 then you would need $4 mil in startup costs plus a distribution and maintenance network comprising tens of thousands of employees. The reality is staggering. Billions would be needed to be competitive.

[kik1977]

The first Bitcoin ATM in the world will be placed in Canada, probably in downtown Vancouver somewhere.

You were damn right!

http://globalnews.ca/news/826309/bitcoin-kiosks-coming-to-canada-this-fall/

"Soon, Johnson and other Canadian Bitcoin enthusiasts will be able to exchange Canadian cash for the digital currency through a kiosk that’s similar to an ATM. Bitcoiniacs says it has ordered five Bitcoin kiosks from a Las Vegas-based company called RoboCoin and intends to roll them out across Canada in the coming months, with the first machine expected to land in Vancouver in early October. Four more kiosks will arrive in December and although their locations are not yet certain, Bitcoiniacs says it’s eyeing major Canadian cities such as Toronto, Montreal, Calgary and Ottawa."

Looking forward to seeing them in the news..

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

The first Bitcoin ATM in the world will be placed in Canada, probably in downtown Vancouver somewhere.

You were damn right!

http://globalnews.ca/news/826309/bitcoin-kiosks-coming-to-canada-this-fall/

"Soon, Johnson and other Canadian Bitcoin enthusiasts will be able to exchange Canadian cash for the digital currency through a kiosk that’s similar to an ATM. Bitcoiniacs says it has ordered five Bitcoin kiosks from a Las Vegas-based company called RoboCoin and intends to roll them out across Canada in the coming months, with the first machine expected to land in Vancouver in early October. Four more kiosks will arrive in December and although their locations are not yet certain, Bitcoiniacs says it’s eyeing major Canadian cities such as Toronto, Montreal, Calgary and Ottawa."

Looking forward to seeing them in the news..

Being the Vancouver Meet Up/CoinFest guy gives you access to inside information, sometimes.  Too bad it doesn't pay well enough for me to invest based on that knowledge.

[The Bitcoin Catalog]

The first Bitcoin ATM in the world will be placed in Canada, probably in downtown Vancouver somewhere.

You were damn right!

http://globalnews.ca/news/826309/bitcoin-kiosks-coming-to-canada-this-fall/

"Soon, Johnson and other Canadian Bitcoin enthusiasts will be able to exchange Canadian cash for the digital currency through a kiosk that’s similar to an ATM. Bitcoiniacs says it has ordered five Bitcoin kiosks from a Las Vegas-based company called RoboCoin and intends to roll them out across Canada in the coming months, with the first machine expected to land in Vancouver in early October. Four more kiosks will arrive in December and although their locations are not yet certain, Bitcoiniacs says it’s eyeing major Canadian cities such as Toronto, Montreal, Calgary and Ottawa."

Looking forward to seeing them in the news..

Being the Vancouver Meet Up/CoinFest guy gives you access to inside information, sometimes.  Too bad it doesn't pay well enough for me to invest based on that knowledge.

Any ETD for the first one?

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

The first Bitcoin ATM in the world will be placed in Canada, probably in downtown Vancouver somewhere.

You were damn right!

http://globalnews.ca/news/826309/bitcoin-kiosks-coming-to-canada-this-fall/

"Soon, Johnson and other Canadian Bitcoin enthusiasts will be able to exchange Canadian cash for the digital currency through a kiosk that’s similar to an ATM. Bitcoiniacs says it has ordered five Bitcoin kiosks from a Las Vegas-based company called RoboCoin and intends to roll them out across Canada in the coming months, with the first machine expected to land in Vancouver in early October. Four more kiosks will arrive in December and although their locations are not yet certain, Bitcoiniacs says it’s eyeing major Canadian cities such as Toronto, Montreal, Calgary and Ottawa."

Looking forward to seeing them in the news..

Being the Vancouver Meet Up/CoinFest guy gives you access to inside information, sometimes.  Too bad it doesn't pay well enough for me to invest based on that knowledge.

Any ETD for the first one?

Mid October, could be delayed to late or end of October.

[kik1977]

The first Bitcoin ATM in the world will be placed in Canada, probably in downtown Vancouver somewhere.

You were damn right!

http://globalnews.ca/news/826309/bitcoin-kiosks-coming-to-canada-this-fall/

"Soon, Johnson and other Canadian Bitcoin enthusiasts will be able to exchange Canadian cash for the digital currency through a kiosk that’s similar to an ATM. Bitcoiniacs says it has ordered five Bitcoin kiosks from a Las Vegas-based company called RoboCoin and intends to roll them out across Canada in the coming months, with the first machine expected to land in Vancouver in early October. Four more kiosks will arrive in December and although their locations are not yet certain, Bitcoiniacs says it’s eyeing major Canadian cities such as Toronto, Montreal, Calgary and Ottawa."

Looking forward to seeing them in the news..

Being the Vancouver Meet Up/CoinFest guy gives you access to inside information, sometimes.  Too bad it doesn't pay well enough for me to invest based on that knowledge.

Any ETD for the first one?

Mid October, could be delayed to late or end of October.

Wow, pretty soon! Hope they will get a good media coverage..

[compro01]

Expected time to availability in my province : coincident with the Earth falling into the sun.

[kik1977]

Interesting article on the topic, seems we're finally getting there: http://www.business2community.com/infographics/bitcoin-atm-canada-infographic-0631903

Canada is revolutionizing its Bitcoin exchanging scene with five new simple, and yet so amazing, machines: the Bitcoin ATMs produced by the company Robocoin, based in Las Vegas. The devices will soon arrive in the country thanks to the action of the crypto-store Bitcoiniacs, a physical business located in Vancouver that works like a Bitcoin broker and already conquered dozens of clients. But what will change with the arrival of these machines? Well, we bet that a lot will be different from now on. Just the fact that you can use a simple machine to exchange your fiat currency for Bitcoins, and the other way around, is such an marvelous possibility that we bet something great will happen. Maybe even the generalization of the cryptocurrency’s use.
While the first machine is expected to land in Vancouver in early October, the rest of the devices should arrive in December to other major cities like Toronto, Montreal, Calgary and Ottawa. There are already several reports of local Bitcoiners excited about the news, mainly because, according to them, this makes it easier for people to buy and sell Bitcoins according to the current exchange rates.
Besides being super easy and safe to use one of these machines, you also won’t have to wait several days to verify your transaction, like it usually happens when operating through an online exchange. This makes Bitcoins more accessible to people and still adds that necessary element of legitimacy that will attract several new users, for sure. Robocoin says that the idea is to provide visibility to Bitcoins and add trust to the exchange process. That is why the kiosks will allow customers to quickly make a transaction using cash or a simple receipt with a QR code. To find out more about these amazing machines check out our infographic!

Read more at http://www.business2community.com/infographics/bitcoin-atm-canada-infographic-0631903#fRgF4Ooh1O5LuHol.99

[kik1977]

https://twitter.com/LamassuBTC/status/384296714305155073/photo/1

Promised a sexy pic, and here we are! We present to you #Bitcoin Machine #00001 - shipping out tomorrow. pic.twitter.com/0KF3hSD9yd

[kik1977]

http://www.prlog.org/12226215-bitcoin-atm-landing-in-uruguay.html

Uruguayan startup Moneero has quietly been designing and is now delivering a fleet of its own Bitcoin vending machines, the Moneero BTM. Partnered with an ATM industry veteran, Moneero developed and will produce Moneero BTMs at its partner's high capacity facility. The first Moneero BTMs will be installed in popular public locations in Montevideo and Punta del Este, Uruguay, before the end of this year. Moneero BTMs will also be deployed in seven different countries with its partners.

The Moneero BTM plays an integral role in Moneero's ecosystem where users can send bitcoins to 6.8 billion cellphones and share bitcoins with 1.5 billion social media accounts. Moneero BTMs can be configured to accept cash from virtually any country and allow users to load their Moneero accounts with bitcoins.

[Nagle]

https://twitter.com/LamassuBTC/status/384296714305155073/photo/1

Promised a sexy pic, and here we are! We present to you #Bitcoin Machine #00001 - shipping out tomorrow. pic.twitter.com/0KF3hSD9yd

That's just a vending machine, like ones that sell phone cards, fare cards, and such.  You can't put in Bitcoins and get currency out.

[Saman]

Hi,

let me quickly answer the questions that came up:


Is it a bitcoin vending machine?

yes, it is indeed a "vending" machine - any machine that spills out fiat cash for bitcoins will not reach wide distribution any time soon. The reason is the way Anti-Money-Laundering regulation are designed around the globe. If you take cash and give out something you are looking at the standard business operation - Goods out / Cash in - essentially every store on this planet works that way.

If you turn this operation around and give out cash to people - you have to do KYC (Know-Your-Client) and AML procedures in almost any jurisdiction in the world. The moment you have to do KYC/AML you can safely assume you are regulated and need a license. Or to be exact: you need many many licenses - one for each jurisdiction you operate in.

The challenges with being licensed or obtaining a license are in general:

• "You need to be a bank to become a bank" - In most jurisdictions it is impossible to fulfil the criteria to obtain a license if you don't already have proven years long record operating as a financial institution.
• Apart from some places you need to obtain a separate license for every single jurisdiction in the world (that's 48 licenses in the US alone)
• The licensing process is very costly and very slow - it usually takes many months if not years for the license to be granted. Legal advisors for the financial sector are among the best paid specialists, there are application fees and in most cases up to several millions have to be deposited with the regulating authority or central bank. Also: Maintaining the licenses isn't cheap - in most cases there are hefty annual fees to pay.
• In many (if not the most) jurisdiction obtaining a license is not even possible as the legal status of bitcoin has not yet been clarified. Which could mean that after going through all the pain of obtaining a license, it could turn out to be the wrong license or the given license can end up being revoked. (That's one of the reasons why so many banks shy away from working with bitcoin startups.)

I could go on, but you get the picture. No startup in the world will be able to overcome this hurdles anytime soon unless it has the financial power of someone like HSBC (to name a company that is fully licensed in many parts of the world).

In short: Any machine exchanging both ways has very few spots around the globe where it can go. And even those few spots are pending future regulation which might take this machines out of business at any time.

To the contrary: Selling Bitcoins is legal in most parts of the world. - So a "bitcoin vending machine" has by far better chances to reach wide distribution in a short amount of time.


Is it available?

Yes, we are taking orders and shipping. There is a caveat to this: This is not a buy-and-run-it-yourself piece of hardware. The BTM is a part of our product strategy to bring bitcoin out of the "geek-zone" and into the lives of ordinary people. As such it connects to our SMS and Social Network services and is also otherwise embedded in our eco-system. If a Moneero BTM doesn't work, has been setup illegally and gets seized or anything else bad happens - it falls back on Moneero. So in order to buy BTMs the buyer needs to partner with us and the vetting process can take a couple of weeks.

I hope this answers some of the questions - more information will be released in the days to come.

kind regards

Steven

[kik1977]

Thanks a lot Steven, very good to hear from you and looking forward to learning new details about your project!
Where are you planning to deliver the first machines? Are they shops, supermarket, etc.?

[Saman]

Where are you planning to deliver the first machines? Are they shops, supermarket, etc.?

Confirm locations in Uruguay are cinemas, hostels and a store. (That's probably more than the modest bitcoin demand in Uruguay will needat this time, but it's our backyard, so we go bold here ) - We have currently inquiries for 50-60 machines from 7 countries (Latam/Asia/Europe), but I can't yet comment on the exact type of location.

[kik1977]

Where are you planning to deliver the first machines? Are they shops, supermarket, etc.?

Confirm locations in Uruguay are cinemas, hostels and a store. (That's probably more than the modest bitcoin demand in Uruguay will needat this time, but it's our backyard, so we go bold here ) - We have currently inquiries for 50-60 machines from 7 countries (Latam/Asia/Europe), but I can't yet comment on the exact type of location.

Thank you very much for the news, please keep up posted with the final delivery of the first machines! Pictures!! Good luck!

[thallium205]

Here is some information on the Robocoin ATM heading up to Vancouver ->  http://blog.robocoinkiosk.com/2013/10/22/robocoin-is-en-route/

[kik1977]

Here is some information on the Robocoin ATM heading up to Vancouver ->  http://blog.robocoinkiosk.com/2013/10/22/robocoin-is-en-route/

Some more info: http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/26/5031132/canada-bitcoin-atm-bitcoiniacs-robocoin-vancouver

Quote:
After dumping the penny last year, Canada is taking another step towards the fiscal future with the launch of the world's first publicly-accessible Bitcoin ATM next Tuesday. As Wired reports, the landmark machine will be installed outside of a coffee house in downtown Vancouver, allowing members of the public to exchange their Canadian Dollars for Bitcoins, or vice versa.

Machines that exchange physical currency for Bitcoins have made quite a few appearances at industry shows and conferences, and there's more than one company attempting to put Bitcoin ATMs in public places. The machine to be installed in Vancouver this week comes from Nevada-based Robocoin. To comply with Canadian law, the machine will check your identity using palm prints, photographs, and ID verification, and will only allow for a maximum of CAD$3,000 (around $2,700) worth of transactions per user per day.

Bitcoiniacs, the company responsible for bringing the ATM to Vancouver, has purchased five of Robocoin's machines and hopes to launch the rest in "other locations throughout Canada" soon. Unlike the one-day-only appearance of a another ATM at a San Diego hotel, all of Bitcoiniacs' machines are intended to be permanent.

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

It will be here, soon. They contracted me to announce some stuff for them including a media event. You should come if you want to talk to reporters

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

It will be here, soon. They contracted me to announce some stuff for them including a media event. You should come if you want to talk to reporters

 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270572.new#new

[ANiceJewishBoy]

Where are you planning to deliver the first machines? Are they shops, supermarket, etc.?

Confirm locations in Uruguay are cinemas, hostels and a store. (That's probably more than the modest bitcoin demand in Uruguay will needat this time, but it's our backyard, so we go bold here ) - We have currently inquiries for 50-60 machines from 7 countries (Latam/Asia/Europe), but I can't yet comment on the exact type of location.

This is great. Just like Red Box, no one will care at first. Then it will become something that every gas station owner in the world wants.

[kik1977]

Fisrt full ATM machine delivered, installed and now functioning.

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/10/bitcoin_atm_gallery/#slideid-92141

VANCOUVER, Canada — Meet the Robocoin: the world’s first bitcoin ATM. It went live last night, after an afternoon of tinkering and testing at the downtown cafe that’s now its home.

The Robocoin isn’t like other ATMs. It doesn’t take debit or credit cards. It’s a cash-only machine. You put your money in, and it gives you numbers — addresses that link to bitcoins, the world’s most popular digital currency. Or, if you already own some bitcoins, the machine can scan a QR code on your mobile phone and dispense cash.
The Nevada guys who built Robocoin tested it out at a San Jose, California, convention last May, but this is the first time they’ve installed one of their machines in a permanent fashion. It’s yet another sign that Bitcoin, created just over five years ago, is moving out of the realm of computer geeks and into the mainstream.

Bitcoin is a system controlled a network of machines spread across the internet. When you buy a bitcoin, you’re essentially buying cryptographically protected numbers that you can then move around using a global, peer-to-peer network of computers. It’s money, but it moves as easily as email.

Bitcoins sprung into the public spotlight as the default currency for The Silk Road, a online drug marketplace that was shut down earlier this month. But today, you can use bitcoins at a small but growing number of businesses. You can pay for a cab in San Francisco, or a pint of beer in London or a caffe macchiato here at the Waves Coffee House in Vancouver, where the first Robocoin is nestled right next to the coffee bar.

To the Canadian investors who bought this first Robocoin — three men who met in a high school and have since gone on to found a bitcoin trading store in Vancouver called Bitcoiniacs — Robocoin will let people to buy and sell bitcoins without going through some of the hoops that are required by Bitcoin exchanges. “The point of the store was to make it easier for everyone to buy bitcoins,” says Bitcoiniac co-founder Jackson Warren. “We saw the ATM as a way to expand the model of the store.”

(...)

Although the Robocoin user interface is still rough and not exactly easy to use, bitcoin’s supporters are excited about the machine. “I think it’s great for bitcoin because it increases access to bitcoin for the mainstream public,” says Patrick Murck, the lawyer for the Bitcoin Foundation, a nonprofit group that maintains the core bitcoin software and advocates for the digital currency. He expects to see bitcoin ATMs in the U.S. soon.

At around six p.m. Monday, a man named Jason Lamarche dropped by the coffee shop. He then waited patiently for more than three hours until the machine was fully ready to go, wanting to be the first to use it. He slid in a $20 bill, and in less than a minute, he had his tenth of a bitcoin, which he promptly used at the coffee bar to buy a steamed milk with vanilla (this Waves Coffee House accepts bitcoins). “It was amazing,” he said of the Robocoin. “It was super convenient. It was easy to use.”

Lamarche asked that we not mention the name of his employer, but he did tell us what he does for a living. He’s an account manager at a bank.

[kik1977]

Update on the topic, Europe wise: http://www.coindesk.com/startups-race-install-londons-first-bitcoin-atm/

Three companies are competing to install London’s first bitcoin ATM in the coming weeks.

The firms, all startups, are awaiting the delivery of their machines from manufacturers Robocoin and Lamassu. They say they have locations staked out, but are keeping schtum until they are ready to make an official public announcement.

The firm with the most ambitious plan is Global Bitcoin ATM Ltd. The bootstrapped startup plans to install five machines per month in the UK, starting in London. It eventually plans to install machines globally, according to its spokesperson, Terry James.

Global Bitcoin says it has a high street location somewhere in central London in mind for its first machine, a Robocoin unit, which it expects to receive and install in early February.

The Robocoin ATM is capable of two-way conversions between bitcoin and fiat currency, and includes a feature which can identify users via a biometric reader.

New business model

James’ firm has a unique take on the ATM operator business model. Instead of owning and operating the machines itself, it plans to operate the machines on behalf of their individual owners.

The firm maintains the machines and finds venues to install them. The owners pay Global Bitcoin ATM for the service on 24-month contracts. Thus, the firm acts as a service provider for a network of ATM owners.

James said his firm intends to use Robocoin machines for the time being, adding that the company is also joining the Bank to the Future incubator for bitcoin startups in London. The firm is bootstrapped and has no institutional funding at the moment.

The accidental operator

Another individual with designs on making history with London’s first cryptocurrency ATM is Joel Raziel. The boutique real estate developer is awaiting delivery of his Lamassu unit, which is also due in early February.

Having found a location in East London to install his ATM, Raziel is currently in the process of confirming it. He said he bought the machine – which costs about $5,000 – on a whim.

“This is completely out of the ordinary for me, it is very much an impulse buy. I’m kind of biting my nails over it.”

However, since CoinDesk spoke to him in early January, a spate of bitcoin ATM installations around the world have been announced. Raziel now thinks his ATM could be a viable business. ”I think there’s definitely commercial value to it and I’m sure it could turn a profit,” he said.

Neither Raziel nor Global Bitcoin ATM have said what they will charge customers who wish to use their machines. ATMs elsewhere, like Canada, for example, typically charge a 5% fee per transaction.

Satoshipoint enters the fray

The third player in London’s bitcoin ATM race is Satoshipoint Ltd. The firm’s co-founders are Hassan Khoshtaghaza and Jonathan ‘Jonny’ Harrison. The firm has two Robocoin machines on the way, but they’re lagging the competition with a delivery date scheduled for early March.

Satoshipoint will install its Robocoin ATMs at bureaus d’change on Oxford Street and in Notting Hill, both popular tourist destinations in Central London. Khoshtaghaza would not say exactly where the machines would be located, although he did say fees would be 3 to 5%.

Khoshtaghaza said the firm is planning to buy more machines if the first two prove to be popular.

The ATM operators contacted said there are currently no specific laws or regulations in place to govern bitcoin ATMs in the UK. However, Satoshipoint and Global Bitcoin ATM said they preferred Robocoin machines partly because of the units’ ‘Know Your Customer‘ features, which allow the operator to maintain a record of the machine’s transactions, along with identifying information.

Booming global ATM business

Bitcoin ATM installations have boomed in the last two months. Manufacturer Lamassu announced it had received its 100th order at the end of December, while three Canadian cities had their first bitcoin ATMs installed last week.

Attracted by the opportunities emerging in the space, new manufacturers, from open-source projects like Skyhook ATM, to firms planning to scale globally like Ottawa’s Bit Access, have entered the space.

The first bitcoin ATM was installed in Vancouver at the end of October. That Robocoin unit reportedly accepted more than CA$1m in deposits in its first 29 days of operation, putting the business in the spotlight.

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

We're getting a couple hundred all across Canada this year.

[kik1977]

Interesting map from Lamassu with their machines pinned. Unfortunately not really interactive, since I wasn't able to zoom in and see the actual location. Lamassu, improve it!

https://lamassu.is/maps/

[quone17]

SOmeone was posting in another thread about putting one in Boston.  I'd really be interested in that!  I'd def use it.  Anyone have any data about the usage stats for ATMs already installed?

[RawDog]

SOmeone was posting in another thread about putting one in Boston.  I'd really be interested in that!  I'd def use it.  Anyone have any data about the usage stats for ATMs already installed?

Just insert your bills into the sewer grate, you'll get the same thing back from a bitcoin ATM.

[kik1977]

SOmeone was posting in another thread about putting one in Boston.  I'd really be interested in that!  I'd def use it.  Anyone have any data about the usage stats for ATMs already installed?

The first machine, located in a Vancouver coffee shop, racked up a total of CA $1 million ($939,761) in exchange value (approximately 1,500 individual transactions) within its first month

http://www.atmmarketplace.com/article/224011/Bitcoin-Robocoin-ATM-chalk-up-some-ka-ching

[ThomasMuller]

Hello Gentlemen,

Anyone operating Bitcoins in the US who could give me some guidance? I'm interested in running some tests in some shops in Georgia but I would like to find out more on the legalities of this business.

Like do I need a FinCEN permit? any other permit? etc.

I'm also wondering if you guys think it is a good idea to install these machines inside of coffee shops, malls, etc. And what type of maintenance it will require.

With that being said how much would be fair to pay the owners for the machine in their establishments?

I appreciate your input.

Cheers,

[kik1977]

Hello Gentlemen,

Anyone operating Bitcoins in the US who could give me some guidance? I'm interested in running some tests in some shops in Georgia but I would like to find out more on the legalities of this business.

Like do I need a FinCEN permit? any other permit? etc.

I'm also wondering if you guys think it is a good idea to install these machines inside of coffee shops, malls, etc. And what type of maintenance it will require.

With that being said how much would be fair to pay the owners for the machine in their establishments?

I appreciate your input.

Cheers,

Do you mean you want ot buy machines and lend them to shopkeepers or do you own the shop and you want to buy and install the machines  there?

[tspacepilot]

SOmeone was posting in another thread about putting one in Boston.  I'd really be interested in that!  I'd def use it.  Anyone have any data about the usage stats for ATMs already installed?

Just insert your bills into the sewer grate, you'll get the same thing back from a bitcoin ATM.

Weird to troll bitcoin in a bitcoin forum.  Is there something specific about atms that you don't like or are you just trying to insult bitcoin users?

FWIW, I was interested in the bitcoin atm idea until i heard that the us implemented ones require photo ids and fingerprints.  Does the canadian one have the same strict measures to id the user?

[QuestionAuthority]

SOmeone was posting in another thread about putting one in Boston.  I'd really be interested in that!  I'd def use it.  Anyone have any data about the usage stats for ATMs already installed?

Just insert your bills into the sewer grate, you'll get the same thing back from a bitcoin ATM.

Weird to troll bitcoin in a bitcoin forum.  Is there something specific about atms that you don't like or are you just trying to insult bitcoin users?

FWIW, I was interested in the bitcoin atm idea until i heard that the us implemented ones require photo ids and fingerprints.  Does the canadian one have the same strict measures to id the user?

Are you serious? Where did you get that from? Do you have a source?

[ThomasMuller]

Hello Gentlemen,

Anyone operating Bitcoins in the US who could give me some guidance? I'm interested in running some tests in some shops in Georgia but I would like to find out more on the legalities of this business.

Like do I need a FinCEN permit? any other permit? etc.

I'm also wondering if you guys think it is a good idea to install these machines inside of coffee shops, malls, etc. And what type of maintenance it will require.

With that being said how much would be fair to pay the owners for the machine in their establishments?

I appreciate your input.

Cheers,

Do you mean you want ot buy machines and lend them to shopkeepers or do you own the shop and you want to buy and install the machines  there?

Hello Kik,

I have a friend in Atlanta who owns several stores and he got really excited about Bitcoins. So I was wondering how about creating something like vending machines, I would lend them and in some areas they would be in my own shop or inside of mall.

But I don't know if they are being considered like cash ATMs in terms of regulations.

[tspacepilot]

SOmeone was posting in another thread about putting one in Boston.  I'd really be interested in that!  I'd def use it.  Anyone have any data about the usage stats for ATMs already installed?

Just insert your bills into the sewer grate, you'll get the same thing back from a bitcoin ATM.

Weird to troll bitcoin in a bitcoin forum.  Is there something specific about atms that you don't like or are you just trying to insult bitcoin users?

FWIW, I was interested in the bitcoin atm idea until i heard that the us implemented ones require photo ids and fingerprints.  Does the canadian one have the same strict measures to id the user?

Are you serious? Where did you get that from? Do you have a source?

Well sure, this was discussed in re the bitcoin atm that was installed in Austin.  Here's a blogger talking about it:

http://grantammons.me/bitcoin/my-experience-using-a-bitcoin-atm/

I have no idea if other machines work the same way.  That's sorta what I'd like to know more about.

[QuestionAuthority]

SOmeone was posting in another thread about putting one in Boston.  I'd really be interested in that!  I'd def use it.  Anyone have any data about the usage stats for ATMs already installed?

Just insert your bills into the sewer grate, you'll get the same thing back from a bitcoin ATM.

Weird to troll bitcoin in a bitcoin forum.  Is there something specific about atms that you don't like or are you just trying to insult bitcoin users?

FWIW, I was interested in the bitcoin atm idea until i heard that the us implemented ones require photo ids and fingerprints.  Does the canadian one have the same strict measures to id the user?

Are you serious? Where did you get that from? Do you have a source?

Well sure, this was discussed in re the bitcoin atm that was installed in Austin.  Here's a blogger talking about it:

http://grantammons.me/bitcoin/my-experience-using-a-bitcoin-atm/

I have no idea if other machines work the same way.  That's sorta what I'd like to know more about.

Thanks for the link. Jesus! The Unites States has no gravity - it just sucks so much it keeps everybody down.

I know this is an international forum so here's a plea for help. Will someone please attack the USA and replace the government with one that doesn't have its head up its ass. Where's WW3 when you need it?

[BittBurger]

The idea that people would go around plonking bitcoin ATM machines around the world and the governments would just let them do so was at best naive, at worst entirely stupid.

There were even headlines flying around like "Cyprus gets world's first bitcoin ATM machine". What a load of tripe.

Anyone up for some Tripe? 

-B-

[kik1977]

So many news around and so many ATMs deployed every day around the globe! Nice to see the new Lamassu two-ways..

[ThomasMuller]

Hello Gentlemen,

I'm considering installing some Skyhooks here in Atlanta, GA. Anyone knows if I need some permits for these ATM machines?

Cheers,

Gil

[BSIG]

After the unveiling of the BitcoinATM in San Diego last May (https://bitcoinatm.com/), I heard nothing about it.
Despite some researches, I cannot find anything in the news. Have FinCen's regulations affected it? I guess so..
Do you have any news I wasn't able to find? Were you there in San Diego?

I'm interested to hear of it as well.

[Satan666]

Thanks for the link. Jesus! The Unites States has no gravity - it just sucks so much it keeps everybody down.

I know this is an international forum so here's a plea for help. Will someone please attack the USA and replace the government with one that doesn't have its head up its ass. Where's WW3 when you need it?

The USA is the most prosperous and privileged nation in the history of world.  Now kiss our fiat.

[djaliel]

i like this news, 

[tspacepilot]

SOmeone was posting in another thread about putting one in Boston.  I'd really be interested in that!  I'd def use it.  Anyone have any data about the usage stats for ATMs already installed?

Just insert your bills into the sewer grate, you'll get the same thing back from a bitcoin ATM.

Weird to troll bitcoin in a bitcoin forum.  Is there something specific about atms that you don't like or are you just trying to insult bitcoin users?

FWIW, I was interested in the bitcoin atm idea until i heard that the us implemented ones require photo ids and fingerprints.  Does the canadian one have the same strict measures to id the user?

Are you serious? Where did you get that from? Do you have a source?

Well sure, this was discussed in re the bitcoin atm that was installed in Austin.  Here's a blogger talking about it:

http://grantammons.me/bitcoin/my-experience-using-a-bitcoin-atm/

I have no idea if other machines work the same way.  That's sorta what I'd like to know more about.

Thanks for the link. Jesus! The Unites States has no gravity - it just sucks so much it keeps everybody down.

I know this is an international forum so here's a plea for help. Will someone please attack the USA and replace the government with one that doesn't have its head up its ass. Where's WW3 when you need it?

Can I please request a bloodless coup rather than WW3.  Or at least give us a warning and a week to run to Canada?  Did I mention that I love Canada?  Canada will you take me plz?