Historic Cryptogenic Bullion thread - CLOSED

[papersheepdog]

PoW/PoS reward increase analysis.

Please add to this if anything is missing or debatable.
In no particular order.

Asserted Observations:

 - Most PoW reward halvings have corresponded with price drops (and a notable loss of interest).


Increase PoW reward

Pros:
- Bring miners back, and the community excitement that comes with them.
- PoW reward appears to be what keeps miners (and thus the larger community) interested in a coin.
- Untapped demand is theoretically there to balance the monetary base expansion and at least maintain prices as supply increases.
- Doing something can appear to be better than doing “nothing”
- New and exciting product changes can bring interest
- The reward has tapered off without the “expected” increase in adoption rate (con: adoption rate may never take off if we change course now)

Cons:
- It won’t last forever and may put us back in the same position once it’s completed.
- Dilutes existing holders’ share of value (percentage of currency owned). Aka bringing back high maintenance cost (a quality that sets us apart is low maintenance cost).
- Sets a precedent that CGB is not a “hard asset” and can be changed or expanded “on a whim.”
- We may lose an opportunity to pioneer yet another aspect of cryptocurrencies which eventually most other cryptos will have to deal with, which is the completion of the volatile monetary base expansion phase.
- Mining excitement in the broader cryptosphere may simply be the function whereby miners can buzz up and sell their coins for the highest price by exciting investors. If this is the case, the pump may not hold.
- Does not in itself specify the actual method for creating demand, relies on miners and investors to do it “somehow.”
- Unintended and unforeseen consequences
- Game theory suggests that miners will sell their coin as fast as they can because they last one to do so realizes the lowest price “all other things being equal.”
- Investors may be incentivised to sell into this mining dump with the intent of getting back in at a lower price.
- Demand can be created independent of this kind of change
- Hard fork which can be "rejected" by the community at large


Increase PoS reward

Pros:
- Investors may like the idea of earning interest, but may realize that if everyone is doing it, their “share” is not expanding at all.
- Doing something can appear to be better than doing “nothing”
- New and exciting product changes can bring interest
- Better incentive for securing the network through PoS minting
- A sense of constant activity as higher minting rewards are received

Cons:
- It won’t last forever and may put us back in the same position once it’s completed.
- Sets a precedent that CGB is not a “hard asset” and can be changed or expanded “on a whim.”
- PoS reward is a zero sum game. If everyone is generating stake, their slice of the pie remains unchanged. Only if you fail to mint are you punished and wealth is transferred towards those who do. Therefore it almost isn’t even a reward unless others fail to do it.
- All other things being equal, if the monetary base doubles, the unit value halves. This would need to be countered by adoption which is our primary goal.
- Does not specify the actual method for creating demand, relies on investors to do it “somehow.”
- Unintended and unforeseen consequences
- Demand can be created independent of this kind of change
- Hard fork which can be "rejected" by the community at large


I wonder if a mechanism could be developed to target the 1.5% PoS reward by giving out unclaimed, and expiring stake potential to those who actually *are* minting. This way we can try to better target our 2% mark. This would increase reward without actually going past our target.

In order to do a more automated targeting of mining rewards, the core mechanism would need to be linked to an exchange to gauge rates and reward miners accordingly. This would likely lead to much higher inflation and I don't think the technology is well tested for this kind of mechanism.

[IMZ]

Morning!! Fabulous clear Winter morning, with Eric and Mrs. Eric Emu eating wheat just outside the window.

Majormax, PSD has a media promotion in hand. Could you write a text on POS coins?? I sure wish I understood more about them.

And: ten days to beta:

cryptomall.com.au

Mark, Australia

[Majormax]

Morning!! Fabulous clear Winter morning, with Eric and Mrs. Eric Emu eating wheat just outside the window.

Majormax, PSD has a media promotion in hand. Could you write a text on POS coins?? I sure wish I understood more about them.

And: ten days to beta:

cryptomall.com.au

Mark, Australia

Sure, I can ,and have, written much about PoS...There are a lot of aspects to understanding PoS. Really depends what level of technicality you are looking at, and whether it is specific to one coin, or general.

A list of questions, so that I could compile FAQ would be a good start.

[papersheepdog]

Morning!! Fabulous clear Winter morning, with Eric and Mrs. Eric Emu eating wheat just outside the window.

Majormax, PSD has a media promotion in hand. Could you write a text on POS coins?? I sure wish I understood more about them.

And: ten days to beta:

cryptomall.com.au

Mark, Australia

Sure, I can ,and have, written much about PoS...There are a lot of aspects to understanding PoS. Really depends what level of technicality you are looking at, and whether it is specific to one coin, or general.

A list of questions, so that I could compile FAQ would be a good start.

I could actually think of two different things that could use some experienced development. One would be, as Blair suggestd, a more broad document explaining the difference between PoW and PoS for security as well as reward mechanism. Another would be a little more specific. We are putting together an article for this particular media promotion and one section within it may have say 200 words about "what makes CGB unique and pioneering." I loved the point that Elambert made a few posts back:

CGB was one of the first PoS coins, one of the first to implement the accelerated subsidy halving, one of the first to move to PoS as a higher payout than PoW. All coins (even Bitcoin) will at some point in their life cycle come to a cross road where they have to either move away from appeasing miners or change their code and word to their earlier adopters. We are just a trend setter here again. CGB has, and in my opinion should continue to logically envision the path ahead and move proactively rather than in a reactionary manner.

That's along the lines of what I would like to include, but it will also need some more fundamental investor focused stuff on what the advantages really are in a competition sense to PoW. Possibly some detail on the Hybrid nature of CGB. This piece would be a couple well constructed sentences, but feel free to contribute to the development of the overall article (as we discuss it further).

By the way Majormax, I have to acknowledge how much I appreciate a good debate as well as the client compiling assistance you have provided in the past. This goes to VonSpass as well: I am delighted to have your input and actually get drawn into the discussion irresistibly sometimes.

papersheepdog, Canada

[papersheepdog]

Morning!! Fabulous clear Winter morning, with Eric and Mrs. Eric Emu eating wheat just outside the window.
And: ten days to beta: cryptomall.com.au

Mark, Australia

I hate to say it but its been just that month of finally warm temps 25C and up. Do you have ham radio out there? For the cryptomall beta, we should coordinate advertising the CryptoTown project on your site. I think it's time I move the operation over to /r/CryptoTown (also have /r/CryptoMall for later when CryptoMall post traffic builds too high). Ill update this post later. I don't know what I can get done as far as theme and stuff goes but I should be able to move The CryptoTown Guide over. We need to work out the structure. For example, I maintain a sticky post with all continents and cryptomalls listed under them. This has to grow from klunky, small time methods such as text list directories and Reddit aggregated CryptoMalls to more advanced database driven aggregation services as the project scales up. Note that we can expect these Malls to be the entities that individually and collectively pioneer these methods. Profit will naturally be a motive for some CryptoMalls, but volunteers will likely compose a majority of the CryptoMall consultants out there.

[tspacepilot]

I'm pretty encouraged by the idea that perhaps many of the strong altcoins are going to bottom out and then the ones with the better quality can rise back out of that.  I'm not completely sure it will happen but there's still hope.

[papersheepdog]

I'm pretty encouraged by the idea that perhaps many of the strong altcoins are going to bottom out and then the ones with the better quality can rise back out of that.  I'm not completely sure it will happen but there's still hope.

It certainly seems plausible I think a lot of coins are being effectively tossed aside from the overall market correction.

[papersheepdog]

/r/CryptoTown subReddit Launched!

Please also see the Reddit post for further discussion.

http://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoTown/



The CryptoTown On The Ground development post has become "The Official CryptoTown Guide" which is sticky posted to the CryptoTown subReddit.

An updated PDF for V0.1G has been created!

Links and such will be updated and development is ongoing!

papersheepdog, Canada

[FiniteRed]

I thoroughly believe that CGB should stick to its guns and not change a thing about how the PoW and PoS systems are currently implemented.  Altering them will dilute one of CGBs primary USPs by making it less rare and more importantly send the message "hey guys, we got it wrong" to investors which could end up scaring them off.

What we need to do is encourage investment, this amounts (amongst other things) to higher volume trade, far greater public awareness/discussion and a steadily increasing price.

To achieve this I would propose that we implement a dedicated, highly professional and informative multi-pool (lets find a better name than 'multi-pool' it sounds unprofessional IMO) directly controlled by the CGB core team.

This will have a number of advantages:

• Miners will be encouraged back into the fold with a higher CGB payout than directly mining it; increasing CGB's public profile and getting people excited/talking about CGB once again
• The CGB purchased from the multi-pool's profits (over a carefully selected number of exchanges) will increase trade volume and help to drive the price up slowly and controllably.
• A percentage of the the multi-pool's hash rate could actually help directly mine CGB to keep its hash rate up (NB. profits from CGB mining would be added directly to the multi-pool payout pot and not sold)

The absolute key to all of this is to implement it in a highly professional manor (CGB's track record here is exemplary), lots of real-time graphs, predicted profit v direct mining, CGB news/rumour mill etc. All of this will have positive impact of CGB's public image, raise its profile and hopefully encourage both investors and large mining outfits to re-join the CGB family.

FR

[kelsey]

I'm pretty encouraged by the idea that perhaps many of the strong altcoins are going to bottom out and then the ones with the better quality can rise back out of that.  I'm not completely sure it will happen but there's still hope.

It certainly seems plausible I think a lot of coins are being effectively tossed aside from the overall market correction.

Its not a market correction but a market dilution. 1001 coins or filling the same spot in what is really a very small niche community. Investing (as some would call it) in cryptos is pretty much just betting on whether xyz coin will ever make it, now that risky investor base is getting spread a little thin....thinner and thinner as more coins are pumped out.

Eventually all the market just floods into the flavor of the day/week/month then it dies as the next flavor pops up, so a few coins here and there get insta-value, but its a slow cold death for everything else.

Only way to survive become useful and not merely a fiat trading token.

[elambert]

Contest #4!
This contest is aimed at spreading word of one of the major projects that CGB is currently partnered with, CryptoTown! This is an enormous project aimed at bridging the gap between cryptos and real world local users and merchants and is not nation, coin or person specific. This is for all coin communities! The CGB team has a series of numbers selected and will give away 10 CGB to the corresponding individual from each group of 10 to carry out the below assignment.

1. Favorite and retweet the 'Contest # 4 tweet'
2. Subscribes to this Reddit
3. Reply to the Reddit post with a verbal vote of support, your CGB address and sign with your user name and nation (ex: elambert, USA)

Lets get started!

[Majormax]

I'm pretty encouraged by the idea that perhaps many of the strong altcoins are going to bottom out and then the ones with the better quality can rise back out of that.  I'm not completely sure it will happen but there's still hope.

It certainly seems plausible I think a lot of coins are being effectively tossed aside from the overall market correction.

Its not a market correction but a market dilution. 1001 coins or filling the same spot in what is really a very small niche community. Investing (as some would call it) in cryptos is pretty much just betting on whether xyz coin will ever make it, now that risky investor base is getting spread a little thin....thinner and thinner as more coins are pumped out.

Eventually all the market just floods into the flavor of the day/week/month then it dies as the next flavor pops up, so a few coins here and there get insta-value, but its a slow cold death for everything else.

Only way to survive become useful and not merely a fiat trading token.

That's a good summary of the current situation, and probably for the foreseeable future.

However there are a few (very few) coins which have persistent increasing value (so far). 64k Question: Is capital going to be concentrated further into those (with the odd rare newcomer joining the leaders).

If that is the case the only way to survive is going to be to join that elite group asap, because as time goes on it becomes more difficult for existing coins to be noticed (need a new or novel feature).

[papersheepdog]

I'm pretty encouraged by the idea that perhaps many of the strong altcoins are going to bottom out and then the ones with the better quality can rise back out of that.  I'm not completely sure it will happen but there's still hope.

It certainly seems plausible I think a lot of coins are being effectively tossed aside from the overall market correction.

Its not a market correction but a market dilution. 1001 coins or filling the same spot in what is really a very small niche community. Investing (as some would call it) in cryptos is pretty much just betting on whether xyz coin will ever make it, now that risky investor base is getting spread a little thin....thinner and thinner as more coins are pumped out.

Eventually all the market just floods into the flavor of the day/week/month then it dies as the next flavor pops up, so a few coins here and there get insta-value, but its a slow cold death for everything else.

Only way to survive become useful and not merely a fiat trading token.

That's a good summary of the current situation, and probably for the foreseeable future.

However there are a few (very few) coins which have persistent increasing value (so far). 64k Question: Is capital going to be concentrated further into those (with the odd rare newcomer joining the leaders).

If that is the case the only way to survive is going to be to join that elite group asap, because as time goes on it becomes more difficult for existing coins to be noticed (need a new or novel feature).

"1001 coins or filling the same spot" - Totally true! CGB fills it's own spot though, store of value. This kind of specialization will grant us a spot at the top almost by default. There are competitors now in this area, yes, but most coins seem to be following the exact same playbook and they can all go off and compete with each other. It shouldn't bother us. We will show the cryptosphere just what they are missing, demand will be created with what we are doing. We have only become much stronger, and better organized as this dilution (and correction) has hit hard. Our efforts are shaping up!

[papersheepdog]

Contest #4!
This contest is aimed at spreading word of one of the major projects that CGB is currently partnered with, CryptoTown! This is an enormous project aimed at bridging the gap between cryptos and real world local users and merchants and is not nation, coin or person specific. This is for all coin communities! The CGB team has a series of numbers selected and will give away 10 CGB to the corresponding individual from each group of 10 to carry out the below assignment.

1. Favorite and retweet the 'Contest # 4 tweet'
2. Subscribes to this Reddit
3. Reply to the Reddit post with a verbal vote of support, your CGB address and sign with your user name and nation (ex: elambert, USA)

Lets get started!

Cool!! Can you please link us back to the original BDAY countdown thread?
I love seeing the country people are from, its such a cool idea

EDIT: I forgot its linked through the CryptogenicBullion subreddit!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=633928.0

papersheepdog, Canada

[papersheepdog]

I thoroughly believe that CGB should stick to its guns and not change a thing about how the PoW and PoS systems are currently implemented.  Altering them will dilute one of CGBs primary USPs by making it less rare and more importantly send the message "hey guys, we got it wrong" to investors which could end up scaring them off.

What we need to do is encourage investment, this amounts (amongst other things) to higher volume trade, far greater public awareness/discussion and a steadily increasing price.

To achieve this I would propose that we implement a dedicated, highly professional and informative multi-pool (lets find a better name than 'multi-pool' it sounds unprofessional IMO) directly controlled by the CGB core team.

This will have a number of advantages:

• Miners will be encouraged back into the fold with a higher CGB payout than directly mining it; increasing CGB's public profile and getting people excited/talking about CGB once again
• The CGB purchased from the multi-pool's profits (over a carefully selected number of exchanges) will increase trade volume and help to drive the price up slowly and controllably.
• A percentage of the the multi-pool's hash rate could actually help directly mine CGB to keep its hash rate up (NB. profits from CGB mining would be added directly to the multi-pool payout pot and not sold)

The absolute key to all of this is to implement it in a highly professional manor (CGB's track record here is exemplary), lots of real-time graphs, predicted profit v direct mining, CGB news/rumour mill etc. All of this will have positive impact of CGB's public image, raise its profile and hopefully encourage both investors and large mining outfits to re-join the CGB family.

FR

Hey FiniteRed, thanks for the excellent post! I just wanted to clarify that I am not opposed in any way to the community coming up with such a multipool. Reason being that it makes little sense to try to stop something that you can't. As for putting Core Team resources toward this, we would love to (though so many other projects would take priority if we had the current ability) , and if there was a developer who could get it done, we would be happy to have them on board to give it a go. My official position is that I don't believe it truly adds to the value of CGB as the demand could be argued to be artificial. If its a matter of miner convenience, then yes I could see it as being fairly popular. I think that you are absolutely right. If we were to do such a thing, we would need to be very clear on the fundamentals of what it actually achieves (miner convenience).

Edit: Added to the Community - Development section of the CGB website.

Profit Spending Multipool: (Open) The CGB Core team is “not opposed” to such a multipool and see how it could be a convenient service for CGB miners. See this forum post for context.

[IMZ]

Workin' on the Directory. This is from yesterday's Workshop:

"Wow, Paper!! There are plenty of business (principally the small ones run by coiners) that are amenable to accepting more coins.
Thus, Mark's looney idea of 'proto merchant facility' becomes a very real possibility. If every CGB-er in the world start tracking down the closest Bitcoin-accepting businesses, and offers to buy for fiat all CGB that they take if they accept CGB, and also offer to work to draw CGB-ers to that business, the world is our oyster.
The consultancy can be realised through the networking.
Finally (I'm gonna re-post this at home base), here's a theoretical prediction:
the growth of the dark coins will not come until the GFC starts gettin' really ugly. Meanwhile, the development will be 'above ground' -- which doesn't mean that peer-to-peer sales can't become a primary dynamic.
I suspect that coins like Dark Coin will have a hard time advancing from their present stage: how do you build a merchant network from a base of super-in-the-Net people?? And if you don't, how does the coin develop?
Canny coiners can 'piggyback' thus: you can use any coin clandestinely -- that's one network. You can use any coin as a base for development -- that's the coinsultancy, another network. You can develop that coin itself -- that's a third string to your bow.


Mark Blair, Australia

[papersheepdog]

CryptoTown on Twitter!

Please also see the Reddit post for further discussion.



https://twitter.com/CryptoTown/status/480223219199524864 - Pls Follow/Retweet

[papersheepdog]

[ANN] CryptoTown On The Ground - Open community project

Please refer to original Announcement Thread, this is a copy

Development of the CryptoTown On The Ground project is well under way. Many lessons have already been learned as we stretch out into new facets of cryptocurrency adoption. This project has been progressing over at the /r/GotCrypto subReddit, until recently, when the new /r/CryptoTown subReddit, and twitter pages were announced. I have posted some screencaps down below to get a quick idea. I hope this topic can serve as a bridge from CryptoTown to the greater cryptosphere. Questions are very much appreciated.

The CryptoTown On The Ground project aims to develop a comprehensive guide and the resources necessary for starting and participating in what we call a CryptoMall. A CryptoMall is a directory and network of businesses, investors, and consultants maintained by a "management" group of volunteers who act as advocates and consultants on the frontier of cryptocurrency adoption.


The Official CryptoTown Guide (or PDF Version 0.1G)

CryptoTown Website (not yet avail)

CryptoTown on Bitcointalk

CryptoTown on Twitter

Development Workshop

[elambert]

Contest #4!
This contest is aimed at spreading word of one of the major projects that CGB is currently partnered with, CryptoTown! This is an enormous project aimed at bridging the gap between cryptos and real world local users and merchants and is not nation, coin or person specific. This is for all coin communities! The CGB team has a series of numbers selected and will give away 10 CGB to the corresponding individual from each group of 10 to carry out the below assignment.

1. Favorite and retweet the 'Contest # 4 tweet'
2. Subscribes to this Reddit
3. Reply to the Reddit post with a verbal vote of support, your CGB address and sign with your user name and nation (ex: elambert, USA)

Lets get started!

Countdown to CGB's BDAY Contest # 4 continues! Also, the CGB tipbot has been activated over at r/CrytpoTown!  

[papersheepdog]

Development Workshop - CryptoTown On The Ground | 100 CGB reward giveaway!

Please also see the Reddit post for further discussion.

This project is an open collaboration between all who wish to participate. In this spirit, we will maintain official development workshops to help capture lessons learned from experiences "on the ground."

This is a persistent post, it will be linked on the SideBar of the /r/CryptoTown subReddit.

Anyone who wants to contribute an idea simply comments on the Reddit post.

The main product of this discussion is The Official CryptoTown Guide.

The project itself may also be discussed or developed here (Reddit post).

Bonus: I will be giving away a total of 100 CGB by the end of the month in tips at the development workshop to participants with the most insightful and constructive contributions to the project.