[XPM] [ANN] Primecoin Prerelease Announcement - Introducing Prime Proof-of-Work

[nmersulypnem]

Anyone want to play devil's advocate?  What are the down-sides?

[tacotime]

Anyone want to play devil's advocate?  What are the down-sides?

Similar to PPCoin, the chain will be checkpointed such that anyone acting maliciously on the chain will be overridden by Sunny Coin (completely centralized).

The new PoW scheme may have yet unforeseen vulnerabilities, also like PPCoin.  This isn't really a problem because of the sentence above, but it depends on how comfortable you feel using a chain that is essentially controlled by a single person.

Of course, you can always fork the chain and make a version without the continuous checkpointing, too.

[Sunny King]

Okay let me clarify how checkpoints are managed in primecoin.

Many of you know that in ppcoin we introduced a centrally broadcasted checkpoint system, to protect ppcoin network before it's mature. Some would call this system 'complete centralization' but this is very misleading. Even in ppcoin's checkpoint system a lot of measures have been taken such that if there are issues with the checkpoints the network cannot be significantly impacted. Consistency of checkpoints are checked by every node such that the checkpoint system cannot be used for double spending attack once a transaction is confirmed beyond a checkpoint.

In primecoin a similar checkpoint system is present, but it's user enabled, and by default not enforced. So without threats of 51% attack the system is actually dormant. This system is a very useful defense against sustained 51% attack. In fact I think this is a more responsible approach and I believe many altcoins should adopt this system. As recent events show, 51% attack is a reality for altcoin community. To claim otherwise is disingenuous at best.

For those of you worried about my central power, the system present in primecoin is actually not much more centralized than the hard checkpoints in source code (i.e. bitcoin's checkpoints). If you don't manually turn it on, it's just like you don't upgrade to the new versions of the client with a new hard checkpoint. But this system allows a more rapid and effective response of the network against 51% attacker.

This mode of the checkpoint system will also be the way ppcoin operates its checkpoints in the future.

[tacotime]

So your new method for Primecoin is just leaving the checkpointing system in place but disabled, and then letting the users turn it on if you think there's the possibility of a 51% attack?

[mr_random]

So your new method for Primecoin is just leaving the checkpointing system in place but disabled, and then letting the users turn it on if you think there's the possibility of a 51% attack?

In primecoin a similar checkpoint system is present, but it's user enabled, and by default not enforced. So without threats of 51% attack the system is actually dormant.

[Online24o0n]

Looking forward to it.

[Guido]

Sunny would you be able to address questions in post 77
thanks

[Sunny King]

Money supply is not capped. Scarcity is ensured by Moore's Law similar to ppcoin's design. This doesn't necessarily mean it's high inflation compared to other coins.

See d5000's excellent study on inflation speed in cryptocurrency:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=227395.0
Even though ppcoin does not have cap, it's inflation speed is currently lowest among all altcoins.

Money supply is scaled at similar level to ppcoin and litecoin.

I take it, it's forked? same as others
also any indication how many coins will be minted?
80 million? 320 million? unlimited?(unlimited always bad imo)
will it be capped?
will it be opensource?

thanks

[gatra]

damn!
I've been working in a prime-finding proof of work and I'm currently testing my difficulty adjustment algorithm.
Also, I have plans for pool software too. How did you solve that?
I wonder if your ideas are similiar, and I'm looking forward to seeing you paper.
PM if you're interested in sharing ideas.

[CryptoBullion]

approved! stamp it and release that bad boy!!!

[nmersulypnem]

Money supply is not capped. Scarcity is ensured by Moore's Law similar to ppcoin's design. This doesn't necessarily mean it's high inflation compared to other coins.

See d5000's excellent study on inflation speed in cryptocurrency:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=227395.0
Even though ppcoin does not have cap, it's inflation speed is currently lowest among all altcoins.

Money supply is scaled at similar level to ppcoin and litecoin.

I take it, it's forked? same as others
also any indication how many coins will be minted?
80 million? 320 million? unlimited?(unlimited always bad imo)
will it be capped?
will it be opensource?

thanks

Can you be more specific on the rate of inflation (coin minting)?  PPC inflation is about 10% per year, which is pretty outrageous.  It's not fair comparing it to BTC, since BTC has a fixed cap.  If your time horizon is extended by a few years (like a 30yr t-bill would be) then BTC inflation rate is 0.

[CryptoBullion]

Money supply is not capped. Scarcity is ensured by Moore's Law similar to ppcoin's design. This doesn't necessarily mean it's high inflation compared to other coins.

See d5000's excellent study on inflation speed in cryptocurrency:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=227395.0
Even though ppcoin does not have cap, it's inflation speed is currently lowest among all altcoins.

Money supply is scaled at similar level to ppcoin and litecoin.

I take it, it's forked? same as others
also any indication how many coins will be minted?
80 million? 320 million? unlimited?(unlimited always bad imo)
will it be capped?
will it be opensource?

thanks

Can you be more specific on the rate of inflation (coin minting)?

people are going to go mine coins regardless of these attributes. look at all the copy cats with random values of coin caps people have been pulling out of their asses. yet people still mine the hell out of them. Im still LMFAO @ infinitecoin. what a waste of typing zeros to make a transaction. and you cant even trade the bastards on an exchange because the exchanges dont have a low enough .0000000000000001 input option to get people to trade. what a joke!

so just let the man release the coin! gonna keep him busy all day replying to q & a like 1st grade show and tell.

I formerly request op log out of bitcointalk and log into his github and go polish up this code  i want a damn prime coin! neeeooowww!

[tacotime]

So your new method for Primecoin is just leaving the checkpointing system in place but disabled, and then letting the users turn it on if you think there's the possibility of a 51% attack?

In primecoin a similar checkpoint system is present, but it's user enabled, and by default not enforced. So without threats of 51% attack the system is actually dormant.

Yes, I know, I just wanted to confirm I was following correctly.

[digit]

[fran2k]

I wonder how much hashing power you would actually need to hit one of the EFF Prizes: https://www.eff.org/awards/coop

Nice. We should accept only primecoins as prize payment, that will be distributed into the network to the miners .

[digicoin]

Interesting. @mokimarket is the first person who thinks of using prime number

However, it is better to see a whitepaper to explain in detail why prime number will work in a coin

[azwccc]

I wonder how much hashing power you would actually need to hit one of the EFF Prizes: https://www.eff.org/awards/coop

Nice. We should accept only primecoins as prize payment, that will be distributed into the network to the miners .

Maybe a good way to integrated with PoS, but OP said it is pure PoW

[super3]

I wonder how much hashing power you would actually need to hit one of the EFF Prizes: https://www.eff.org/awards/coop

Nice. We should accept only primecoins as prize payment, that will be distributed into the network to the miners .

Depending on how it works you could actually plan that out. Basically use the prize money to gradually buy up PrimeCoin all of which is put into a development fund/wallet. It would instantly make it at least the 5th or 6th highest market cap. With all that interest and market jump you could probably hit the 2nd prize too after a while.

This is all speculation. We have no numbers right now.

[CryptoBullion]

I wonder how much hashing power you would actually need to hit one of the EFF Prizes: https://www.eff.org/awards/coop

Nice. We should accept only primecoins as prize payment, that will be distributed into the network to the miners .

The first research type coin to get released will be a big one. Remember the hype and controversy and log threads of comments when a couple people proposed curecoin and sciencecoin?  this thread is at 2k views a week away from the proposed release date. I have a feeling this coin will actually be released since the basis of prime numbers should make a great proof of work. I know curecoin is in a choke hold for release largely due to the fact folding can be manipulated falsely.

i guess that brings up a good question. since proof of work is based on prime numbers, whos to say i cant just copy the datastream going from someone who is already doing a lot of prime number research and duplicating / slightly altering it? Possibly a common problem in any type of "research coin" since some of the research is already done and can be copied and resubmitted.....

i actually see a really big problem there since prime number work is already in large production... just copy work and resubmit? This has already been done against the folding network at stanford just for people to get points. when there is an incentive in the form of currency the amount of people trying to cheat the system will skyrocket. currently i doubt that is much of a problem on other prime number networks as the points / rankings they get are worthless. If people can mess with folding results then i bet prime results are probably even easier to mess with.... maybe op has some slick way to advert this but i dont see it being possible to fool proof it completely from cheating even if the primes get hashed according to dynamic values. hopefully im missing something there?

[CryptoBullion]

hrm just reread the op and glanced through the pages. hopefully i didnt just wreck op's idea with above questions. i dont really see any posted solutions to the usual and already existing ways of cheating research networks for points.

The curecoin team was all ready to release a coin until someone offered up some hard facts about how someone with good programming skills can copy and slightly alter results and resubmit them without doing the work. without any way to stop it there will probably never be a perfect system for a research coin. hopefully that changes soon.

uhg i hope this is not a repeat because i was really bummed out enough when curecoin did not release. at least for prime numbers there is not centralized university creating the work that could be compromised. so even if people are cheating the system at least it wont damage an existing research project. cheating will make the coin near worthess though.