[XPM] [ANN] Primecoin Prerelease Announcement - Introducing Prime Proof-of-Work

[Sunny King]

I am happy to announce that the primecoin project is now close to beta quality and will be released to public soon. Please keep in mind this is experimental technology and we reserve the rights to rollback or restart the blockchain should severe bug/vulnerability require such actions. However we would try our best to avoid such scenarios and further develop it into reliable public infrastructure.

Introducing primecoin

• First non-hashcash proof-of-work in cryptocurrency, pure prime number based proof-of-work
• Cpu mining at launch, gpu mining to be developed by market participants
• Pure proof-of-work, no proof-of-stake (unlike ppcoin), not energy efficient, but with additional potential scientific value derived from proof-of-work energy consumption (energy multiuse)
• Scarcity enforced by Moore's Law similar to ppcoin, mint rate gradually drops as difficulty rises, without sudden halving shock
• Security model similar to bitcoin
• Continuous difficulty adjustment like ppcoin
• Reasonably high starting difficulty to limit instamining
• 1 minute target block spacing
• Zero premine, zero tax

ppcoin + primecoin

• Sharing the same goal of real innovations, moving cryptocurrency technology forward and demonstrating our technical capabilities
• Sharing the same value, open source, no premine, no tax, advancing cryptocurrency technology for humanity
• Cpu mining initially for primecoin to cater to a larger mining community, now covering all mining hardwares with both ppcoin (gpu+fpga+asic) and primecoin (cpu)
• New innovations in primecoin catering to a wider audience including the mathematical and other scientific computing community, and users who prefer pure proof-of-work cryptocurrencies.
• Sharing development resources and infrastructures
• Different innovative cryptocurrency designs provide cryptocurrency investors with diversified advanced technology portfolio
• Strategic positioning for the next 5 years in cryptocurrency market

ppcoin vs primecoin

• ppcoin is our first innovative cryptocurrency design to focus on energy efficiency. Almost a year after its release ppcoin's design remains the only proof-of-stake design on the market, with seven forks/clones (NVC, BTB, YAC, BTG, BOT, CGB, YAB). primecoin is our second innovative design to focus on alternative proof-of-work system producing additional scientific values. The two networks would work in synergy to achieve our long-term cryptocurrency strategy.
• Cryptocurrency market has now split into two sectors, energy intensive sector and energy efficient sector. In the longer term (5+ years) I believe the energy efficient sector would begin to challenge the energy intensive sector due to its cost advantage. In the shorter term though energy intensive market would likely remain dominant and we would like to have an innovative and competitive offering in this sector as well. The innovations in primecoin give us this opportunity, and would complement ppcoin to strengthen our strategic position in the market.
• The energy intensive sector currently has two major types of proof-of-work, both of the hashcash type, one is SHA-256, the other is scrypt. There have been some new variations of the hash functions recently, with modified scrypt and SHA-3 series hash functions as well, or even compositions of different hash functions. Though existing cryptocurrencies are all still based on hashcash proof-of-work. primecoin introduces the first non-hashcash proof-of-work in cryptocurrency, the first type of proof-of-work that not only secures the block chain, but also provides additional potential scientific value, paving the way for future proof-of-work types with more diverse scientific interests and uses.
• Both ppcoin and primecoin demonstrate our design prowess and capability in real innovations. We are fully dedicated to provide long term support and further development to both cryptocurrencies.
• For existing ppcoin users our dedication to the continued development of ppcoin and its market has not changed. ppcoin's advanced proof-of-stake technology has long-term advantage over pure proof-of-work designs, and is an innovative environmental-friendly solution to the escalating energy consumption on cryptocurrency. In my opinion the energy intensive sector will fragment into many different types of proof-of-work, a single type of proof-of-work is unlikely to maintain dominance. More fragmentation is likely even within a single type of proof-of-work. Meanwhile the energy efficient sector would rise to challege the energy intensive sector, and ppcoin is among the leading contenders in the energy efficient sector. So in terms of our long term strategy ppcoin is of more importance than primecoin.

Release Schedule

Primecoin release is tentatively scheduled for 2013 July 7th 18:00 UTC


Update: 2013-JUL-07: Primecoin blockchain now up and running. Main discussion thread at:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251850.0
Thanks for your support 

[1714965851]

1714965851

[1714965851]

1714965851

[NWO]

Reserved.

[mr_random]

Reserved.

[coinerd]

If I understand correctly, this will be the second non-hashcash crypto-currency to achieve beta.

Looking forward to it.

Will you provide backwards compatibility at the daemon for existing crypto currency infrastructures?

(Similar RPC-JSON interface especially?)

[Scooby903]

Looks interesting...

[FirewallXIII]

Nice to see something that's not a carbon copy with parameters changed.

[cbeast]

• Pure proof-of-work, no proof-of-stake (unlike ppcoin), not energy efficient, but with additional potential scientific value derived from proof-of-work energy consumption (energy multiuse)

What kind of scientific value?

[SullyTex]

I'm in!

[jasonslow]

This is awesome.

[Vorksholk]

Interesting!

[Kevlar]

I'd like more information about this prime number based proof of work scheme please.

[anderl]

Interested.  I've subscribed

[thef]

Finally something different.

[Sunny King]

Maybe I have missed something new among the sea of clones, but who is the first non-hashcash proof-of-work that you are referring to?

Some API would be preserved some would be impacted, especially those mining related. Although I haven't looked into it yet the release is client wallet solo mining only.

If I understand correctly, this will be the second non-hashcash crypto-currency to achieve beta.

Looking forward to it.

Will you provide backwards compatibility at the daemon for existing crypto currency infrastructures?

(Similar RPC-JSON interface especially?)

[super3]

Looks pretty interesting. My miner is is ready. Can you have pool software / mining software ready at launch?

[Sunny King]

Design details will be available some time before release.

I'd like more information about this prime number based proof of work scheme please.

[Hazard]

Reserved

[Sunny King]

Looks pretty interesting. My miner is is ready. Can you have pool software / mining software ready at launch?

No pool software. It's up to the market to develop those later. Release will be client wallet solo mining only. No external miner.

[kimosan]

Looks good. Subscribed.

[zackclark70]

I can do a basic exchange a prize draw and a giveaway if needed

[coinerd]

Maybe I have missed something new among the sea of clones, but who is the first non-hashcash proof-of-work that you are referring to?

Most people have missed it completely, watching the sea of clones.  It's not a clone at all.

Emunie is well into beta with no satoshi wallet, a network structure of at least three node types (or 2 nodes plus wallet) and a different sort of proof of work and ledger structure that I have to admit I don't fully grok yet.  I think in the end as transactions age they end up in something that's very like a satoshi blockchain but it lives directly in RDB as well.

It's deeply into your "energy efficient" category.

They announced it and then the action moved to their forum when the first round of beta opened, there's very little talk of it here. Considering your history here  (unlike my noob-ness) I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on it, if you check it out.

[Sunny King]

This is the first virus complaint of ppcoin so please report detail in ppcoin thread. The official ppcoin release is built through the same build tool that bitcoin uses (gitian-builder) so that other developers can verify the integrity of the release binaries. Primecoin release will also be built with gitian-builder with published signatures.

My antivirus tells me there is some kind of suspicious activity when I try to download a wallet of this type of coin, so I don't get involved in this type of coin. ppcoin and bitgem both have wallets that had viruses

[fran2k]

Can you please add more detail about the real innovation of this coin?

Thks

[Sunny King]

I don't think emunie brought new proof-of-work to the table. Most of the things it does were tried by timekoin and qubic last year. Proof-of-work is not a loose term you'd really need to have proof of your work, not some vague claim that you did something, not something that can be easily cheated.

Most people have missed it completely, watching the sea of clones.  It's not a clone at all.

Emunie is well into beta with no satoshi wallet, a network structure of at least three node types (or 2 nodes plus wallet) and a different sort of proof of work and ledger structure that I have to admit I don't fully grok yet.  I think in the end as transactions age they end up in something that's very like a satoshi blockchain but it lives directly in RDB as well.

It's deeply into your "energy efficient" category.

They announced it and then the action moved to their forum when the first round of beta opened, there's very little talk of it here. Considering your history here  (unlike my noob-ness) I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on it, if you check it out.

[challen]

CPU only AND solo-mine only???

Thank you!!
(While it lasts anyways

[eddyfitz]

So nice that we finally will have coin from "adult" developers

[coinerd]

I don't think emunie brought new proof-of-work to the table. Most of the things it does were tried by timekoin and qubic last year. Proof-of-work is not a loose term you'd really need to have proof of your work, not some vague claim that you did something, not something that can be easily cheated.

Ok, interesting. I will dig deeper into it, i know it's heavily trust based but hadn't thought of it as "non-proof of work".

Timekoin and qubic were both before I knew about crypto so I don't know anything about them really.  In any case not to hijack over here with noob questions about another coin. 

I am interested to see this and how it works out.  I know there is a lot of desire for a "useful" proof of work and with it people won't mind the energy costs nearly as much.

[romerun]

see also

http://www.ppcointalk.org/index.php?topic=288.0

hold on, why not 4th July

[jubalix]

reserved

how does this help cpu mine that is agaisnt botnets which may be just directed at the coin

could I suggest a silent release of the complied qt client, to those who have over x amount of PPC or were registered on the PPC forum before a certain date,

this shows people who are at least dedicated to PPC/ your projects.

Eg the day after I purchased BTC I went around buying up PPC!

If i understand PrimeCoin may act as a bridge to PPC

but I don't understand it the hash rate away from BTC idea, see the overall hash available is increasing, so even if the pie is smaller for BTC this does not make it more vulnerable, also with asics now rolling out and by far the majority of new coins being scrypt his is even less an issue though that could change when everything that produces heat mines as well

on that point, it maybe that all heating elements mine eventually kind of putting a floor under the nergy usage as you were going to it anyway.

Imagine the amount of power a hot water element pulls, and could be directed at mining as well.

Would I like my hot water element to be makieng me btc or some otehr CC, why not!

[justabitoftime]

Exciting news Sunny, congrats.

[Vorksholk]

 


My antivirus tells me there is some kind of suspicious activity when I try to download a wallet of this type of coin, so I don't get involved in this type of coin. ppcoin and bitgem both have wallets that had viruses

Uhh, where to start...

Download for this wallet isn't even out yet, PPCoin didn't have a virus, neither did bitgem. If you did get a virus from either wallet, you should record where you downloaded the wallet from, and alert the devs so they can take appropriate action.

[Fuserleer]

I don't think emunie brought new proof-of-work to the table. Most of the things it does were tried by timekoin and qubic last year. Proof-of-work is not a loose term you'd really need to have proof of your work, not some vague claim that you did something, not something that can be easily cheated.

Most people have missed it completely, watching the sea of clones.  It's not a clone at all.

Emunie is well into beta with no satoshi wallet, a network structure of at least three node types (or 2 nodes plus wallet) and a different sort of proof of work and ledger structure that I have to admit I don't fully grok yet.  I think in the end as transactions age they end up in something that's very like a satoshi blockchain but it lives directly in RDB as well.

It's deeply into your "energy efficient" category.

They announced it and then the action moved to their forum when the first round of beta opened, there's very little talk of it here. Considering your history here  (unlike my noob-ness) I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on it, if you check it out.

We do "proof of work" also as well as the trust and multi-transaction chain verification.

The POW works along side the transaction chains verification procedure and produces a "chain section sequence" that is calculated from all the transactions in the various chains that it relies on.  

eMunie can have many many chains all co-existing and growing at the same time, think of it more as a block tree than a block chain.  When a chain forks, the start and end points of that chain are defined as a chain section, and a finite number of blocks (and transactions) occupy it.

To produce this chain section sequence, you have to traverse all of the block tree forward and backward, which is expensive...however, checking the validity of the chain section sequence, and the blocks/transactions within them is quick and simple once you have it.  Thus clients can validate blocks to be legitimate rapidly.

Its not a hash based proof of work at all, but its still proof of work

Good luck with yours, when I have some more time (as we are rapidly approaching launch) I'll have a better read of what you propose.

EDIT:  To clarify, when I say expensive, this is still many orders of magnitude less wasteful than SHA or Scrypt hashing algorithms, and just as secure.

[TheSwede75]

reserved

how does this help cpu mine that is agaisnt botnets which may be just directed at the coin

could I suggest a silent release of the complied qt client, to those who have over x amount of PPC or were registered on the PPC forum before a certain date,

this shows people who are at least dedicated to PPC/ your projects.

Eg the day after I purchased BTC I went around buying up PPC!

If i understand PrimeCoin may act as a bridge to PPC

but I don't understand it the hash rate away from BTC idea, see the overall hash available is increasing, so even if the pie is smaller for BTC this does not make it more vulnerable, also with asics now rolling out and by far the majority of new coins being scrypt his is even less an issue though that could change when everything that produces heat mines as well

on that point, it maybe that all heating elements mine eventually kind of putting a floor under the nergy usage as you were going to it anyway.

Imagine the amount of power a hot water element pulls, and could be directed at mining as well.

Would I like my hot water element to be makieng me btc or some otehr CC, why not!

Cause as we all know, there are absolutely no botnet operators on ppc forum. . Nice try

[billotronic]

reserved

how does this help cpu mine that is agaisnt botnets which may be just directed at the coin

could I suggest a silent release of the complied qt client, to those who have over x amount of PPC or were registered on the PPC forum before a certain date,

this shows people who are at least dedicated to PPC/ your projects.

Eg the day after I purchased BTC I went around buying up PPC!

If i understand PrimeCoin may act as a bridge to PPC

but I don't understand it the hash rate away from BTC idea, see the overall hash available is increasing, so even if the pie is smaller for BTC this does not make it more vulnerable, also with asics now rolling out and by far the majority of new coins being scrypt his is even less an issue though that could change when everything that produces heat mines as well

on that point, it maybe that all heating elements mine eventually kind of putting a floor under the nergy usage as you were going to it anyway.

Imagine the amount of power a hot water element pulls, and could be directed at mining as well.

Would I like my hot water element to be makieng me btc or some otehr CC, why not!

Cause as we all know, there are absolutely no botnet operators on ppc forum. . Nice try

lol duh! they are on the btce troll box with the rest of us loons!

[forsetifox]

Watching this.

[NickCoin]

Would be interesting to see how this is received by crypto community.

As far as I'm concerned though, the days of pure POW single block chain hashing structure is numbered.

[mullick]

Wow Looks like your set to do it again. Thank you for bringing real innovation back to crypto

[jubalix]

reserved

how does this help cpu mine that is agaisnt botnets which may be just directed at the coin

could I suggest a silent release of the complied qt client, to those who have over x amount of PPC or were registered on the PPC forum before a certain date,

this shows people who are at least dedicated to PPC/ your projects.

Eg the day after I purchased BTC I went around buying up PPC!

If i understand PrimeCoin may act as a bridge to PPC

but I don't understand it the hash rate away from BTC idea, see the overall hash available is increasing, so even if the pie is smaller for BTC this does not make it more vulnerable, also with asics now rolling out and by far the majority of new coins being scrypt his is even less an issue though that could change when everything that produces heat mines as well

on that point, it maybe that all heating elements mine eventually kind of putting a floor under the nergy usage as you were going to it anyway.

Imagine the amount of power a hot water element pulls, and could be directed at mining as well.

Would I like my hot water element to be makieng me btc or some otehr CC, why not!

Cause as we all know, there are absolutely no botnet operators on ppc forum. . Nice try

well ok, true, but I think there would be less! maybe, than at large! or rather capture a better selection of no botnet as many botents would then not be able to participate

[paulthetafy]

Reserved, looks good!

[r3wt]

so i just got off the phone with satoshi. he's coming out of retirement to mine this coin.

[TheSwede75]

I hear Jesus is planning a second coming to GPU mine this coin.

[Boing7898]

Looking good! Good luck with this.

[mr_random]

Maybe I have missed something new among the sea of clones, but who is the first non-hashcash proof-of-work that you are referring to?

Some API would be preserved some would be impacted, especially those mining related. Although I haven't looked into it yet the release is client wallet solo mining only.

If I understand correctly, this will be the second non-hashcash crypto-currency to achieve beta.

Looking forward to it.

Will you provide backwards compatibility at the daemon for existing crypto currency infrastructures?

(Similar RPC-JSON interface especially?)

Will users be able to compile from source on release or are you just releasing the client wallet on launch day?

I guess I am a little worried a troll will try and clone it if you release all the source on day 1. After a day or so it doesn't matter so much then.

I am curious how you managed to get this to work...

[allbits]

Watching this.

[azwccc]

Interested in prime POW, any more detail? Just a little plz~

[craslovell]

I will keep an eye on this one

[Snail2]

Looks interesting. Maybe something like the SETI project could use some "hashing" power from this coin.

[tacotime]

Are you integrating GIMPS into a block chain? There would be a couple of problems with that I could foresee, namely that it takes an average of two years to find a new prime and that all new primes usually need to be independently verified (eg in 2003 when a new "prime" was found that ended up being factorable).

There are no real implementation details, so I'm curious.  In the Mersenne prime format you could easily stick them somewhere in the block header.

Edit: Apparently Gavin made a fork already of the same name
https://github.com/primecoin/primecoin

Doesn't look like he did much with it, though.

[drawingthesun]

A alt coin by a respected developer and with a totally unique proof of work scheme, this is going to be huge!

[SpaceCadet]

Worth keeping an eye on - it's nice to see some real innovation and not another cut-and-paste!  SIFCoin is another recent one that is also CPU only for now (though not as large a departure from the 'norm' as this might be).

Good luck, Sunny - I hope this is a winner for you (and the rest of us)!

[amytheplanarshift]

Very interesting. Watching this closely.

[Sunny King]

Design paper would be available in a couple days.

That's my fork, not Gavin's Source code will be uploaded at release time.

Are you integrating GIMPS into a block chain? There would be a couple of problems with that I could foresee, namely that it takes an average of two years to find a new prime and that all new primes usually need to be independently verified (eg in 2003 when a new "prime" was found that ended up being factorable).

There are no real implementation details, so I'm curious.  In the Mersenne prime format you could easily stick them somewhere in the block header.

Edit: Apparently Gavin made a fork already of the same name
https://github.com/primecoin/primecoin

Doesn't look like he did much with it, though.

[super3]

Design paper would be available in a couple days.

That's my fork, not Gavin's Source code will be uploaded at release time.

Are you integrating GIMPS into a block chain? There would be a couple of problems with that I could foresee, namely that it takes an average of two years to find a new prime and that all new primes usually need to be independently verified (eg in 2003 when a new "prime" was found that ended up being factorable).

There are no real implementation details, so I'm curious.  In the Mersenne prime format you could easily stick them somewhere in the block header.

Edit: Apparently Gavin made a fork already of the same name
https://github.com/primecoin/primecoin

Doesn't look like he did much with it, though.

Will you have a website up for launch? I can throw up something like this http://elacoin.org/ in an hour or two if you want.

[Joerii]

Reserved.

Why on earth would you reserve the second post for yourself ? The bloody arrogance.

[TheSwede75]

A alt coin by a respected developer and with a totally unique proof of work scheme, this is going to be huge!

Cause we just neeeeeed more altcoins. Since, there just aren't enough...

[super3]

Reserved.

[Vorksholk]

I'm very interested to see how pool mining will work. Maybe sending a list of tried values? Seems that could be abused...

[mullick]

A alt coin by a respected developer and with a totally unique proof of work scheme, this is going to be huge!

Cause we just neeeeeed more altcoins. Since, there just aren't enough...

We need more innovative alt coins. There have been none since ppc/ nmc in my opinion

Sorry I forgot how innovative DGC and FTC are 

[romerun]

if it's just changing another way to do proof of work, it does not sound innovative to me, coz we already have sha256 and scrypt, and they are working just fine..

[irritant]

if it's just changing another way to do proof of work, it does not sound innovative to me, coz we already have sha256 and scrypt, and they are working just fine..

and sha256 and scrypt offer scientific research results? I don't think so, there is the innovation, primecoin does something extra for the world to benefit

[hyh]

Interesting... But it's still some proof-of-work.

Will Primecoin's blockchain have information about prime numbers?

[super3]

Is the architecture so different that it would be difficult to use existing pool and mining software(well slightly modified of course)?

[Sunny King]

Interesting... But it's still some proof-of-work.

Will Primecoin's blockchain have information about prime numbers?

Yes.

[Sunny King]

Is the architecture so different that it would be difficult to use existing pool and mining software(well slightly modified of course)?

Miners need to be written again. Existing SHA-256 and scrypt miners are useless for primecoin.

Pool code may be reused mostly. Pool operators should decide whether to standardize on a mining API, or they can release their own mining software (open source or proprietary). I could see pools competing on better miners to maintain technical advantage.

[jlspartz]

Kudos to you sunny. I have a lot of respect for your work. I have many questions on this coin. I was wondering if there is some location where you can find more details about primecoin?

Some of the questions that come to mind are:

1. Seeing that distributed networks already search out prime numbers how could the incentive compete with say the 100k USD reward for finding the next prime. Primes have been found to over 17 million digits long now. The last one took over 4 years to find. Is the payout going to be per prime or per number tried for prime with a conclusive answer?
2. How do you keep the blockchain to a decent length and verification times down?
3. If the numbers are already found, is there a second layer of verification of actual work? It other words, what stops a person from sniffing a completed block being transferred back and compiling their own packets to be sent back using the already known prime for the current block number that its currently on and stealing all coins?

[Sunny King]

Yes I know some of you are curious as to how the proof-of-work is designed. Obviously it's not trivial and took me months to get it into decent shape I am in the process of preparing the final design paper so hopefully in a few days you will have your answers. Stay tuned.

[coblee]

SunnyKing, I'm looking forward to your design. I'm very interested to know how you managed to come up with a PoW that also finds prime numbers... if that is indeed the design. Would be great if you managed to keep it decentralized.

[super3]

Kudos to you sunny. I have a lot of respect for your work. I have many questions on this coin. I was wondering if there is some location where you can find more details about primecoin?

Some of the questions that come to mind are:

1. Seeing that distributed networks already search out prime numbers how could the incentive compete with say the 100k USD reward for finding the next prime. Primes have been found to over 17 million digits long now. The last one took over 4 years to find. Is the payout going to be per prime or per number tried for prime with a conclusive answer?
2. How do you keep the blockchain to a decent length and verification times down?
3. If the numbers are already found, is there a second layer of verification of actual work? It other words, what stops a person from sniffing a completed block being transferred back and compiling their own packets to be sent back using the already known prime for the current block number that its currently on and stealing all coins?

I would be interesting to see someone do some speculation calculations about how fast you can find primes when the whitepaper is actually released. The Bitcoin network is bigger than all of the worlds super computer combined, then again its only able to do hashing. By implementing a PoW that actually has some inherent value with the computational power, you basically get a nice 2:1 deal. I wonder how much hashing power you would actually need to hit one of the EFF Prizes: https://www.eff.org/awards/coop

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

Any centralized checkpoints? If yes, not interested.

[com911]

At last, something useful incoming, not just punp'n'dump!

[Luckybit]

I am happy to announce that the primecoin project is now close to beta quality and will be released to public soon. Please keep in mind this is experimental technology and we reserve the rights to rollback or restart the blockchain should severe bug/vulnerability require such actions. However we would try our best to avoid such scenarios and further develop it into reliable public infrastructure.

Introducing primecoin

• First non-hashcash proof-of-work in cryptocurrency, pure prime number based proof-of-work
• Cpu mining at launch, gpu mining to be developed by market participants
• Pure proof-of-work, no proof-of-stake (unlike ppcoin), not energy efficient, but with additional potential scientific value derived from proof-of-work energy consumption (energy multiuse)
• Scarcity enforced by Moore's Law similar to ppcoin, mint rate gradually drops as difficulty rises, without sudden halving shock
• Security model similar to bitcoin
• Continuous difficulty adjustment like ppcoin
• Reasonably high starting difficulty to limit instamining
• 1 minute target block spacing
• Zero premine, zero tax

ppcoin + primecoin

• Sharing the same goal of real innovations, moving cryptocurrency technology forward and demonstrating our technical capabilities
• Sharing the same value, open source, no premine, no tax, advancing cryptocurrency technology for humanity
• Cpu mining initially for primecoin to cater to a larger mining community, now covering all mining hardwares with both ppcoin (gpu+fpga+asic) and primecoin (cpu)
• New innovations in primecoin catering to a wider audience including the mathematical and other scientific computing community, and users who prefer pure proof-of-work cryptocurrencies.
• Sharing development resources and infrastructures
• Different innovative cryptocurrency designs provide cryptocurrency investors with diversified advanced technology portfolio
• Strategic positioning for the next 5 years in cryptocurrency market

ppcoin vs primecoin

• ppcoin is our first innovative cryptocurrency design to focus on energy efficiency. Almost a year after its release ppcoin's design remains the only proof-of-stake design on the market, with seven forks/clones (NVC, BTB, YAC, BTG, BOT, CGB, YAB). primecoin is our second innovative design to focus on alternative proof-of-work system producing additional scientific values. The two networks would work in synergy to achieve our long-term cryptocurrency strategy.
• Cryptocurrency market has now split into two sectors, energy intensive sector and energy efficient sector. In the longer term (5+ years) I believe the energy efficient sector would begin to challenge the energy intensive sector due to its cost advantage. In the shorter term though energy intensive market would likely remain dominant and we would like to have an innovative and competitive offering in this sector as well. The innovations in primecoin give us this opportunity, and would complement ppcoin to strengthen our strategic position in the market.
• The energy intensive sector currently has two major types of proof-of-work, both of the hashcash type, one is SHA-256, the other is scrypt. There have been some new variations of the hash functions recently, with modified scrypt and SHA-3 series hash functions as well, or even compositions of different hash functions. Though existing cryptocurrencies are all still based on hashcash proof-of-work. primecoin introduces the first non-hashcash proof-of-work in cryptocurrency, the first type of proof-of-work that not only secures the block chain, but also provides additional potential scientific value, paving the way for future proof-of-work types with more diverse scientific interests and uses.
• Both ppcoin and primecoin demonstrate our design prowess and capability in real innovations. We are fully dedicated to provide long term support and further development to both cryptocurrencies.
• For existing ppcoin users our dedication to the continued development of ppcoin and its market has not changed. ppcoin's advanced proof-of-stake technology has long-term advantage over pure proof-of-work designs, and is an innovative environmental-friendly solution to the escalating energy consumption on cryptocurrency. In my opinion the energy intensive sector will fragment into many different types of proof-of-work, a single type of proof-of-work is unlikely to maintain dominance. More fragmentation is likely even within a single type of proof-of-work. Meanwhile the energy efficient sector would rise to challege the energy intensive sector, and ppcoin is among the leading contenders in the energy efficient sector. So in terms of our long term strategy ppcoin is of more importance than primecoin.

Release Schedule

Primecoin release is tentatively scheduled for 2013 July 7th 18:00 UTC

1. How will you prevent people from insta-mining this coin with Amazon EC2?
2. Why would someone stop mining PPcoin to mine Primecoin if they only have a single CPU and it's guaranteed to be insta-mined by people with Amazon EC2 or people with hundreds of CPUs in the form of server racks?
3. Can you confirm that you are not Satoshi Nakamoto?

I think to launch this coin there needs to be a mining pool or hashing service that people can buy into (Other than Amazon EC2) otherwise wouldn't the difficulty skyrocket within a few days and people left with just an ordinary or even a multi core CPU be left in the dust?

I think the prime idea is so obvious that I wonder why no one thought of it sooner. I guess I will have to wait for the whitepaper.

[ig0tik3d]

http://www.mersenne.org/

[digicoin]

I want to see the whitepaper first. The announcement contains too little details on what the currency offers

[Guido]

watching with interest

so, 7th july
will try and remember

[Guido]

I take it, it's forked? same as others
also any indication how many coins will be minted?
80 million? 320 million? unlimited?(unlimited always bad imo)
will it be capped?
will it be opensource?

thanks

[nmersulypnem]

Looks interesting. Maybe something like the SETI project could use some "hashing" power from this coin.

Find Aliens, get all the money!  Or it could connect with BOINC - cure cancer drug - get money!

...but in all seriousness, I do wonder if some sort of protein folding calculations can be done instead of the primes calculations.  Protein folding is in serious need of computing, and can save lives.  I guess the problem is that the calculations are not unpredictable.

[nmersulypnem]

http://www.mersenne.org/

Wouldn't it be better to look for any prime?  Why restrict it to Mersenne primes?

[mokimarket]

So SunnyKing? I guess my idea wasn't so crazy after all? Will proof of work look similar to this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=166218.msg1734858#msg1734858

[BestBidder25]

Please don't release any new coins.

[Sahtor]

I papernpenmined PoW == 3 where's my reward?

I'm very excited about this one. Good luck.

[nmersulypnem]

Anyone want to play devil's advocate?  What are the down-sides?

[tacotime]

Anyone want to play devil's advocate?  What are the down-sides?

Similar to PPCoin, the chain will be checkpointed such that anyone acting maliciously on the chain will be overridden by Sunny Coin (completely centralized).

The new PoW scheme may have yet unforeseen vulnerabilities, also like PPCoin.  This isn't really a problem because of the sentence above, but it depends on how comfortable you feel using a chain that is essentially controlled by a single person.

Of course, you can always fork the chain and make a version without the continuous checkpointing, too.

[Sunny King]

Okay let me clarify how checkpoints are managed in primecoin.

Many of you know that in ppcoin we introduced a centrally broadcasted checkpoint system, to protect ppcoin network before it's mature. Some would call this system 'complete centralization' but this is very misleading. Even in ppcoin's checkpoint system a lot of measures have been taken such that if there are issues with the checkpoints the network cannot be significantly impacted. Consistency of checkpoints are checked by every node such that the checkpoint system cannot be used for double spending attack once a transaction is confirmed beyond a checkpoint.

In primecoin a similar checkpoint system is present, but it's user enabled, and by default not enforced. So without threats of 51% attack the system is actually dormant. This system is a very useful defense against sustained 51% attack. In fact I think this is a more responsible approach and I believe many altcoins should adopt this system. As recent events show, 51% attack is a reality for altcoin community. To claim otherwise is disingenuous at best.

For those of you worried about my central power, the system present in primecoin is actually not much more centralized than the hard checkpoints in source code (i.e. bitcoin's checkpoints). If you don't manually turn it on, it's just like you don't upgrade to the new versions of the client with a new hard checkpoint. But this system allows a more rapid and effective response of the network against 51% attacker.

This mode of the checkpoint system will also be the way ppcoin operates its checkpoints in the future.

[tacotime]

So your new method for Primecoin is just leaving the checkpointing system in place but disabled, and then letting the users turn it on if you think there's the possibility of a 51% attack?

[mr_random]

So your new method for Primecoin is just leaving the checkpointing system in place but disabled, and then letting the users turn it on if you think there's the possibility of a 51% attack?

In primecoin a similar checkpoint system is present, but it's user enabled, and by default not enforced. So without threats of 51% attack the system is actually dormant.

[Online24o0n]

Looking forward to it.

[Guido]

Sunny would you be able to address questions in post 77
thanks

[Sunny King]

Money supply is not capped. Scarcity is ensured by Moore's Law similar to ppcoin's design. This doesn't necessarily mean it's high inflation compared to other coins.

See d5000's excellent study on inflation speed in cryptocurrency:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=227395.0
Even though ppcoin does not have cap, it's inflation speed is currently lowest among all altcoins.

Money supply is scaled at similar level to ppcoin and litecoin.

I take it, it's forked? same as others
also any indication how many coins will be minted?
80 million? 320 million? unlimited?(unlimited always bad imo)
will it be capped?
will it be opensource?

thanks

[gatra]

damn!
I've been working in a prime-finding proof of work and I'm currently testing my difficulty adjustment algorithm.
Also, I have plans for pool software too. How did you solve that?
I wonder if your ideas are similiar, and I'm looking forward to seeing you paper.
PM if you're interested in sharing ideas.

[CryptoBullion]

approved! stamp it and release that bad boy!!!

[nmersulypnem]

Money supply is not capped. Scarcity is ensured by Moore's Law similar to ppcoin's design. This doesn't necessarily mean it's high inflation compared to other coins.

See d5000's excellent study on inflation speed in cryptocurrency:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=227395.0
Even though ppcoin does not have cap, it's inflation speed is currently lowest among all altcoins.

Money supply is scaled at similar level to ppcoin and litecoin.

I take it, it's forked? same as others
also any indication how many coins will be minted?
80 million? 320 million? unlimited?(unlimited always bad imo)
will it be capped?
will it be opensource?

thanks

Can you be more specific on the rate of inflation (coin minting)?  PPC inflation is about 10% per year, which is pretty outrageous.  It's not fair comparing it to BTC, since BTC has a fixed cap.  If your time horizon is extended by a few years (like a 30yr t-bill would be) then BTC inflation rate is 0.

[CryptoBullion]

Money supply is not capped. Scarcity is ensured by Moore's Law similar to ppcoin's design. This doesn't necessarily mean it's high inflation compared to other coins.

See d5000's excellent study on inflation speed in cryptocurrency:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=227395.0
Even though ppcoin does not have cap, it's inflation speed is currently lowest among all altcoins.

Money supply is scaled at similar level to ppcoin and litecoin.

I take it, it's forked? same as others
also any indication how many coins will be minted?
80 million? 320 million? unlimited?(unlimited always bad imo)
will it be capped?
will it be opensource?

thanks

Can you be more specific on the rate of inflation (coin minting)?

people are going to go mine coins regardless of these attributes. look at all the copy cats with random values of coin caps people have been pulling out of their asses. yet people still mine the hell out of them. Im still LMFAO @ infinitecoin. what a waste of typing zeros to make a transaction. and you cant even trade the bastards on an exchange because the exchanges dont have a low enough .0000000000000001 input option to get people to trade. what a joke!

so just let the man release the coin! gonna keep him busy all day replying to q & a like 1st grade show and tell.

I formerly request op log out of bitcointalk and log into his github and go polish up this code  i want a damn prime coin! neeeooowww!

[tacotime]

So your new method for Primecoin is just leaving the checkpointing system in place but disabled, and then letting the users turn it on if you think there's the possibility of a 51% attack?

In primecoin a similar checkpoint system is present, but it's user enabled, and by default not enforced. So without threats of 51% attack the system is actually dormant.

Yes, I know, I just wanted to confirm I was following correctly.

[digit]

[fran2k]

I wonder how much hashing power you would actually need to hit one of the EFF Prizes: https://www.eff.org/awards/coop

Nice. We should accept only primecoins as prize payment, that will be distributed into the network to the miners .

[digicoin]

Interesting. @mokimarket is the first person who thinks of using prime number

However, it is better to see a whitepaper to explain in detail why prime number will work in a coin

[azwccc]

I wonder how much hashing power you would actually need to hit one of the EFF Prizes: https://www.eff.org/awards/coop

Nice. We should accept only primecoins as prize payment, that will be distributed into the network to the miners .

Maybe a good way to integrated with PoS, but OP said it is pure PoW

[super3]

I wonder how much hashing power you would actually need to hit one of the EFF Prizes: https://www.eff.org/awards/coop

Nice. We should accept only primecoins as prize payment, that will be distributed into the network to the miners .

Depending on how it works you could actually plan that out. Basically use the prize money to gradually buy up PrimeCoin all of which is put into a development fund/wallet. It would instantly make it at least the 5th or 6th highest market cap. With all that interest and market jump you could probably hit the 2nd prize too after a while.

This is all speculation. We have no numbers right now.

[CryptoBullion]

I wonder how much hashing power you would actually need to hit one of the EFF Prizes: https://www.eff.org/awards/coop

Nice. We should accept only primecoins as prize payment, that will be distributed into the network to the miners .

The first research type coin to get released will be a big one. Remember the hype and controversy and log threads of comments when a couple people proposed curecoin and sciencecoin?  this thread is at 2k views a week away from the proposed release date. I have a feeling this coin will actually be released since the basis of prime numbers should make a great proof of work. I know curecoin is in a choke hold for release largely due to the fact folding can be manipulated falsely.

i guess that brings up a good question. since proof of work is based on prime numbers, whos to say i cant just copy the datastream going from someone who is already doing a lot of prime number research and duplicating / slightly altering it? Possibly a common problem in any type of "research coin" since some of the research is already done and can be copied and resubmitted.....

i actually see a really big problem there since prime number work is already in large production... just copy work and resubmit? This has already been done against the folding network at stanford just for people to get points. when there is an incentive in the form of currency the amount of people trying to cheat the system will skyrocket. currently i doubt that is much of a problem on other prime number networks as the points / rankings they get are worthless. If people can mess with folding results then i bet prime results are probably even easier to mess with.... maybe op has some slick way to advert this but i dont see it being possible to fool proof it completely from cheating even if the primes get hashed according to dynamic values. hopefully im missing something there?

[CryptoBullion]

hrm just reread the op and glanced through the pages. hopefully i didnt just wreck op's idea with above questions. i dont really see any posted solutions to the usual and already existing ways of cheating research networks for points.

The curecoin team was all ready to release a coin until someone offered up some hard facts about how someone with good programming skills can copy and slightly alter results and resubmit them without doing the work. without any way to stop it there will probably never be a perfect system for a research coin. hopefully that changes soon.

uhg i hope this is not a repeat because i was really bummed out enough when curecoin did not release. at least for prime numbers there is not centralized university creating the work that could be compromised. so even if people are cheating the system at least it wont damage an existing research project. cheating will make the coin near worthess though.

[willphase]

for a POW algorithm to be useful for blockchain verification it must be

 - hard to derive (for transaction verifiers)
 - controllable difficulty (so as more nodes are added, the difficulty can rise)
 - easy to prove (for relaying nodes)

hash algorithms are good here.  An algorithm with primes sounds like it would be based around the factorising problem (e.g. as used in RSA) - but the question is how Sunny has designed it to be variable - perhaps the difficulty is set by the length of required prime in bits, and the POW is two primes and a factor that meet the difficulty.  This would be very very ASICable compared with scrypt, but I don't think any off the shelf ASIC cores would exist (unlike with SHA256)

Interested to see what Sunny has come up with here.

Will

[h2odysee]

It could be that the proof of work algorithm is something like:

Generate a prime number in the form:
k * 256 ^ n + b

where k is the merkle root + nonce, etc.

Similar to how a prime number was generated that contains the DeCSS code (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_prime)

[smoothie]

Any centralized checkpoints? If yes, not interested.

This.

Also any possible exploits that you are not going to mention publicly as you did when launching PPC and failed to mention it for 4 months?

Although I respect your efforts in development, I do look at your track record from your first launch and how you failed to mention important details about an exploit that had not been fixed nor publicly discussed.

I still believe in community development > secret development when it comes to cryptocoin networks. We all don't know it all but when we lean on each other for input we sharpen ourselves and in essence sharpen others.

I just hope this isn't a repeat of PPC checkpoint and exploits.

Edit: after reading the rest of the thread I retract my above statement regarding check pointing. Looks like sunny will allow users enable the check pointing which is an interesting approach.

[DigitalMan]

if it's just changing another way to do proof of work, it does not sound innovative to me, coz we already have sha256 and scrypt, and they are working just fine..

nice idea!!

[Vorksholk]

In response to questions about people able to cheat with the primes... maybe the coin would, for it's 'target', select a ever-decreasing numeric range for the search, placed at some arbitrary, very-high location. Of course, it's possible there would be no prime in that group, so perhaps after x amount of time a new target would be selected?


This does seem like a tricky proof-of-work implementation to create..

[punin]

Primecoin Bear anyone?

[Rannasha]

for a POW algorithm to be useful for blockchain verification it must be

 - hard to derive (for transaction verifiers)
 - controllable difficulty (so as more nodes are added, the difficulty can rise)
 - easy to prove (for relaying nodes)

hash algorithms are good here.  An algorithm with primes sounds like it would be based around the factorising problem (e.g. as used in RSA) - but the question is how Sunny has designed it to be variable - perhaps the difficulty is set by the length of required prime in bits, and the POW is two primes and a factor that meet the difficulty.  This would be very very ASICable compared with scrypt, but I don't think any off the shelf ASIC cores would exist (unlike with SHA256)

Interested to see what Sunny has come up with here.

Will

There's an additional requirement: The POW solution must depend on the contents of the block that it is associated with. Changing the block should require the POW to be redone. Simply computing a big prime number is insufficient, as it is independent of the block contents.

[XertroV]

When I first heard about coins like curecoins where the proof of work is actually useful, the first thing that came to my mind is that the reason why hashing works is because hashing enforces that the block rewards goes to the person that found the hash. When the miner informs his peers of his block, his peers cannot steal his block. Whereas with a useful proof of work, the peers can just modify the block to make it seem like they found it. "Oh you found a prime that's this difficult and has these properties? Wait, I found the same exact one a minute earlier!" Granted I didn't spend too much time trying to figure out a way around it. Maybe there's a way to encode the the address of the person that found it in the prime. Looking forward to see what Sunny King came up with.

IE: the content of the hash is dependent on the content of the block header which (because of the merkle root) ensures the coinbase pays the miner.

It could be that the proof of work algorithm is something like:

Generate a prime number in the form:
k * 256 ^ n + b

where k is the merkle root + nonce, etc.

EG: k = blockheader (presumably prefixed or something to ensure consistent number of digits; as this will have some effect on the difficulty)

That would be one way because the prime found would depend on (or rather part of it is) the blockheader. Similar to SHA256 you don't know if there's a solution with the particular blockheader you're using (so you have to search the space - well, if things are done 'right').

I was going to say verifying the prime is difficult; but it's not. Verification of primes can be done in polynomial time, so it's not so bad. Factorizing is the hard bit.

So we can have quick to verify, contains the blockheader.

The difficulty is easy to integrate; but unfortunately will have a negative effect on verification time (the only way to make prime generation more difficult is to make the primes bigger, so they take longer to verify). Remember that verification is part of the mining process, so there has to be few enough solutions out there to make looking for them harder to ensure consistent verification times; not sure how this will interact with this PoW style.

So, issues I can see: overcoming the relationship between the difficulty and verification time (if there is one) and ensuring that there are few enough primes out there to find.

The first means the difficulty should shrink the size of the acceptable solution pool (as opposed to making bigger numbers), and the second means arbitrary conditions will need to be chosen by which to define the solution pool.

Anyway, curious to see how the PoW works, and as to why there hasn't been any info made open about it yet.

[hl5460]

if it's just changing another way to do proof of work, it does not sound innovative to me, coz we already have sha256 and scrypt, and they are working just fine..

and sha256 and scrypt offer scientific research results? I don't think so, there is the innovation, primecoin does something extra for the world to benefit

Good point. That's makes more sense to common people for they to accept and use cryptocurrency with ease.

[r3wt]

this is that big release we've all been waiting for. the headliner of 2013

[digicoin]

this is that big release we've all been waiting for. the headliner of 2013

Why? You even don't know how and why this coin can work. I am a little bit skeptical

[bittick]

untill there is a proven working concept - it is all just a hype. make it happen and then announce how awesome it is.
thank you!

[nmersulypnem]

Does Primecoin PoW fairness assume that the distribution of Prime numbers is random?  Hopefully not, because it's not really true: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_number_theorem

[Xaltotun]

This sounds great! I'm looking forward to this Optimus Primecoin. Just beware of the Decepticoins.

[CryptoBullion]

this math is a bit above my head, but maybe this HOL is the way to create proof of work? it looks like it breaks the process of finding primes into smaller "proofs of work"? or is this just a way to find primes faster? maybe the steps leading to finding the prime can be used as pow if each step is recorded.
 
https://code.google.com/p/hol-light/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HOL_Light

Still the first thing that comes to mind is rainbow tables(or even a dictionary type attack but with primes instead of passwords). Even if the proof of work gets hashed by the by value of block headers, something like a rainbow table would be a likely exploit. rainbow tables are used to crack wpa2 and probably other encryption too. A rainbow table for primes should work the same way. then the "miner" armed with the rainbow table would not even have to look for primes unless the prime number target to find a block increased to a prime so large it is unkown. difficulty of a prime can only be changed by looking for a larger unknown prime number. adding difficulty through any other method in the blockchain would just encourage a rainbow table type hack.

One way this would "work" and be unhackable / uncheatable is if the blocks are only rewarded upon finding a completely new and unknown prime. This would make the coin VERY scarce, and the difficulty would be absolutely insane, but that would be pretty damn cool though too. Every coin/block awarded would be a breakthrough in prime number math. with the amount of hashing power the btc community has i would not doubt that we could find a large amount of new primes.

If the object was to only find unknown primes, then any advancement that someone makes that would seem like a cheat would actually be a break though in prime number math. Same thing would have applied to folding if there were more incentive. The software that does the research always has room for improvement. Making sure that improvement is legitimate is the real trick.

still , all pokes to the theory aside, i think this coin should be launched. i dont see any harm of it as long as people dont get too crazy about the new coin and use their life saving to buy a bunch of them. ( which probably happens to some poor dude trying to make a dollar every time a new alt comes out). After a first launch of the coin we can just kick back and watch and see if the exploits surface. If they do, well, then you have more knowledge for improving  primecoin v2.0.

[flyingcat]

great idea, I like prime numbers, this is the prime number I found: 2232007*2^1490605 - 1‏, ‎448724 digits, lol

[flyingcat]

great idea, I like prime numbers, this is the prime number I found: 2232007*2^1490605 - 1‏, ‎448724 digits, lol

It would be great if we can integrate into the Mersenne prime search, which requires a lot computing powers. This way the miners will do something useful...
http://www.mersenne.org/

[hashdice]

Sounds great,most innovative coin the year!

[h2odysee]

It would be great if we can integrate into the Mersenne prime search, which requires a lot computing powers. This way the miners will do something useful...
http://www.mersenne.org/

It can't use mersenne primes, unless you want only a block per year.

[justabitoftime]

A alt coin by a respected developer and with a totally unique proof of work scheme, this is going to be huge!

Cause we just neeeeeed more altcoins. Since, there just aren't enough...

We need more innovative alt coins. There have been none since ppc/ nmc in my opinion

Sorry I forgot how innovative DGC and FTC are  

How cute, an FTC swipe. You do realize Sunny contributed a little code on the FTC hard fork right? Anyway, back to Primecoin.

I deeply respect Sunny's work and commitment to the community.  If more people spent time contributing and less time swiping, we'd be in a far different place. This project is exciting, I'm interested to see what where the community takes this project. +1

[karsy]

• Pure proof-of-work, no proof-of-stake (unlike ppcoin), not energy efficient, but with additional potential scientific value derived from proof-of-work energy consumption (energy multiuse)

What kind of scientific value?

I believe he is referring to finding high number prime numbers. Which actually can be quite difficult. Since the spacing of each prime number increases exponentially.

[gatra]

• Pure proof-of-work, no proof-of-stake (unlike ppcoin), not energy efficient, but with additional potential scientific value derived from proof-of-work energy consumption (energy multiuse)

What kind of scientific value?

I believe he is referring to finding high number prime numbers. Which actually can be quite difficult. Since the spacing of each prime number increases exponentially.

I believe he is referring to finding high number prime numbers. Which actually can be quite difficult. Since the spacing of each prime number increases logarithmically.
FTFY

[learnmore]

I am curious as to why the innovative POW in Primecoin couldn't have been engineered into the the next version of PPcoin.  I feel that the chain is still young enough to allow for such major paradigm shifts even if there had to be some massive POS transaction into the new PP(Prime)Coin version.

[fenican]

Hard to get excited about a CPU proof of work coin.  How will you defend against botnets ?

[Boing7898]

Hard to get excited about a CPU proof of work coin.  How will you defend against botnets ?

Botnets can be used to mine with CPU as much as they can used to mine with GPUs.

[Boing7898]

Botnets can be used to mine with CPU as much as they can used to mine with GPUs.

Botnets are on computers of non-tech-savvy users, i.e. usually no or crappy GPU.

Botnet owners, most of the time, aim at gaming users, to get good GPUs.
Most "silent miners" offer GPU mining too nowadays.

[monocolor]

It would be great if we can integrate into the Mersenne prime search, which requires a lot computing powers. This way the miners will do something useful...
http://www.mersenne.org/

It can't use mersenne primes, unless you want only a block per year.

This is not true, one mersenne computation is broken down to many smaller pieces, can be perfectly integrated

[someone42]

for a POW algorithm to be useful for blockchain verification it must be

 - hard to derive (for transaction verifiers)
 - controllable difficulty (so as more nodes are added, the difficulty can rise)
 - easy to prove (for relaying nodes)

hash algorithms are good here.  An algorithm with primes sounds like it would be based around the factorising problem (e.g. as used in RSA) - but the question is how Sunny has designed it to be variable - perhaps the difficulty is set by the length of required prime in bits, and the POW is two primes and a factor that meet the difficulty.  This would be very very ASICable compared with scrypt, but I don't think any off the shelf ASIC cores would exist (unlike with SHA256)

Interested to see what Sunny has come up with here.

Will

Here is something which might work. It is based on Pratt certificates (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_certificate).

Mining process
The miner attempts to find a large prime n which has the following properties:

• The most significant 256 bits are equal to the merkle root
• The prime is large enough to meet the difficulty target

The miner can do this by trying random large integers (the least significant bits are the "nonce") and running many iterations of the Miller-Rabin test. With enough Miller-Rabin iterations, the miner can be quite confident that they actually have a prime.

Proof of work
To generate the proof of work, the miner generates a Pratt certificate for their large prime n. Generation of a Pratt certificate is very hard; it requires the factorisation of n - 1, which is requires exponential time in the size of n. Yet it is easy to verify a Pratt certificate; verification is polynomial time in the size of n. For example, factorisation of a 1024 bit integer is about 7 million times as difficult as a 512 bit integer (according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_number_field_sieve), yet it is only 16 times as difficult to verify.

This meets the criteria for a useful proof-of-work: hard to generate, easy to verify, adjustable difficulty and incorporates the merkle root.

Mining pools are more complicated to implement, since integer factorisation is not as trivially parallellisable as hashcash. This might explain why the initial client is solo-mine only.

It also has the property of being sensitive to improvements in factorisation algorithms. This makes it somewhat resistant to ASICs, since algorithm improvements may invalidate ASIC designs, so ASIC developers may not wish to take on the risk.

(Edit: linear -> polynomial)

[mokimarket]

for a POW algorithm to be useful for blockchain verification it must be

 - hard to derive (for transaction verifiers)
 - controllable difficulty (so as more nodes are added, the difficulty can rise)
 - easy to prove (for relaying nodes)

hash algorithms are good here.  An algorithm with primes sounds like it would be based around the factorising problem (e.g. as used in RSA) - but the question is how Sunny has designed it to be variable - perhaps the difficulty is set by the length of required prime in bits, and the POW is two primes and a factor that meet the difficulty.  This would be very very ASICable compared with scrypt, but I don't think any off the shelf ASIC cores would exist (unlike with SHA256)

Interested to see what Sunny has come up with here.

Will

Here is something which might work. It is based on Pratt certificates (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_certificate).

Mining process
The miner attempts to find a large prime n which has the following properties:

• The most significant 256 bits are equal to the merkle root
• The prime is large enough to meet the difficulty target

The miner can do this by trying random large integers (the least significant bits are the "nonce") and running many iterations of the Miller-Rabin test. With enough Miller-Rabin iterations, the miner can be quite confident that they actually have a prime.

Proof of work
To generate the proof of work, the miner generates a Pratt certificate for their large prime n. Generation of a Pratt certificate is very hard; it requires the factorisation of n - 1, which is requires exponential time in the size of n. Yet it is easy to verify a Pratt certificate; verification is polynomial time in the size of n. For example, factorisation of a 1024 bit integer is about 7 million times as difficult as a 512 bit integer (according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_number_field_sieve), yet it is only 16 times as difficult to verify.

This meets the criteria for a useful proof-of-work: hard to generate, easy to verify, adjustable difficulty and incorporates the merkle root.

Mining pools are more complicated to implement, since integer factorisation is not as trivially parallellisable as hashcash. This might explain why the initial client is solo-mine only.

It also has the property of being sensitive to improvements in factorisation algorithms. This makes it somewhat resistant to ASICs, since algorithm improvements may invalidate ASIC designs, so ASIC developers may not wish to take on the risk.

(Edit: linear -> polynomial)

I'm very excited about this coin. Finally something that will actually have real value.

[mokimarket]

Finally something that will actually have real value.

I wouldn't go that far.

I know not yet. But I would like to see a proof of work linked to something like finding new primes and this project is the closest I've seen.

[Charles999]

Can we use CGMIner for this coin??  And what version.. The CPU only or the GPU??

[ivanlabrie]

Not for now Charles...cpu only mining via wallet at launch.
Should be fairly interesting, I have high hopes in this and eMunies/Microcash.

[gatra]

Finally something that will actually have real value.

I wouldn't go that far.

I know not yet. But I would like to see a proof of work linked to something like finding new primes and this project is the closest I've seen.

but we haven't seen anything yet! please give more details on what this project is about

[fran2k]

So much expectation

[yaffare]

Why do you people waste your time with stuff like that?

If you spend all your time on improving bitcoin, that would really help.
What does a different proof of work change?
- it does not change that transactions have to be collected in a block
- it does not change that you have to wait for x confirmations
- it does not change that blocks have to broadcasted
- it does not change .. anything

[Tribex1301]

Well done Sunny, I am looking forward which results will bring this new step.

[Loktera]

Why do you people waste your time with stuff like that?

If you spend all your time on improving bitcoin, that would really help.
What does a different proof of work change?
- it does not change that transactions have to be collected in a block
- it does not change that you have to wait for x confirmations
- it does not change that blocks have to broadcasted
- it does not change .. anything

Traditional PoW methods are quite wasteful of our energy resources. We need a solution that either reduces energy consumption massively, or at least puts the energy to more use than just maintaining a blockchain.

[Lauda]

Well this is rather interesting time to use some supercomputers to fast mine all of this  

[Bigcheezit210]

Will be waiting for Primecoin to launch, I am definitely interested in this coin.

[romerun]

True, but is finding prime really important to the world if everyone keeps running this til the next century ? At the end, it's just another scheme of coin distribution. Prime might be cool in 1920, now it's quite yawn. If it's like trying to find new patterns in human gnome or something I would approve.

Why do you people waste your time with stuff like that?

If you spend all your time on improving bitcoin, that would really help.
What does a different proof of work change?
- it does not change that transactions have to be collected in a block
- it does not change that you have to wait for x confirmations
- it does not change that blocks have to broadcasted
- it does not change .. anything

Traditional PoW methods are quite wasteful of our energy resources. We need a solution that either reduces energy consumption massively, or at least puts the energy to more use than just maintaining a blockchain.

[jlspartz]

I would urge that if this project is to be scientifically significant, you do a payout per number tried starting in mainly mersenne prime territory (in the millions of digits). My reasoning is that searching numbers from the beginning would just be validation of currently known primes and if payout were per prime the gain in research will not exist since people won't continue when in takes many years to find one, unless the payout increases and divides among everyone involved, but then huge chunks of currency would be released all at once devaluing it. Therefore, for research it would be best starting where needed and paid out per number tried.

[calian]

I would urge that if this project is to be scientifically significant, you do a payout per number tried starting in mainly mersenne prime territory (in the millions of digits). My reasoning is that searching numbers from the beginning would just be validation of currently known primes and if payout were per prime the gain in research will not exist since people won't continue when in takes many years to find one, unless the payout increases and divides among everyone involved, but then huge chunks of currency would be released all at once devaluing it. Therefore, for research it would be best starting where needed and paid out per number tried.

He'll have to start in uncharted territory. Otherwise some smart aleck could just go look up all the known primes and generate a huge string of blocks for himself.

[calian]

Why do you people waste your time with stuff like that?

If you spend all your time on improving bitcoin, that would really help.
What does a different proof of work change?
- it does not change that transactions have to be collected in a block
- it does not change that you have to wait for x confirmations
- it does not change that blocks have to broadcasted
- it does not change .. anything

Traditional PoW methods are quite wasteful of our energy resources. We need a solution that either reduces energy consumption massively, or at least puts the energy to more use than just maintaining a blockchain.

If you hadn't heard, Sunny King developed a potential solution to this several months back.
http://ppcoin.org/
http://ppcoin.org/static/ppcoin-paper.pdf

[dadaguo]

I will keep an eye on this~~

[Luckybit]

I am happy to announce that the primecoin project is now close to beta quality and will be released to public soon. Please keep in mind this is experimental technology and we reserve the rights to rollback or restart the blockchain should severe bug/vulnerability require such actions. However we would try our best to avoid such scenarios and further develop it into reliable public infrastructure.

Introducing primecoin

• First non-hashcash proof-of-work in cryptocurrency, pure prime number based proof-of-work
• Cpu mining at launch, gpu mining to be developed by market participants
• Pure proof-of-work, no proof-of-stake (unlike ppcoin), not energy efficient, but with additional potential scientific value derived from proof-of-work energy consumption (energy multiuse)
• Scarcity enforced by Moore's Law similar to ppcoin, mint rate gradually drops as difficulty rises, without sudden halving shock
• Security model similar to bitcoin
• Continuous difficulty adjustment like ppcoin
• Reasonably high starting difficulty to limit instamining
• 1 minute target block spacing
• Zero premine, zero tax

ppcoin + primecoin

• Sharing the same goal of real innovations, moving cryptocurrency technology forward and demonstrating our technical capabilities
• Sharing the same value, open source, no premine, no tax, advancing cryptocurrency technology for humanity
• Cpu mining initially for primecoin to cater to a larger mining community, now covering all mining hardwares with both ppcoin (gpu+fpga+asic) and primecoin (cpu)
• New innovations in primecoin catering to a wider audience including the mathematical and other scientific computing community, and users who prefer pure proof-of-work cryptocurrencies.
• Sharing development resources and infrastructures
• Different innovative cryptocurrency designs provide cryptocurrency investors with diversified advanced technology portfolio
• Strategic positioning for the next 5 years in cryptocurrency market

ppcoin vs primecoin

• ppcoin is our first innovative cryptocurrency design to focus on energy efficiency. Almost a year after its release ppcoin's design remains the only proof-of-stake design on the market, with seven forks/clones (NVC, BTB, YAC, BTG, BOT, CGB, YAB). primecoin is our second innovative design to focus on alternative proof-of-work system producing additional scientific values. The two networks would work in synergy to achieve our long-term cryptocurrency strategy.
• Cryptocurrency market has now split into two sectors, energy intensive sector and energy efficient sector. In the longer term (5+ years) I believe the energy efficient sector would begin to challenge the energy intensive sector due to its cost advantage. In the shorter term though energy intensive market would likely remain dominant and we would like to have an innovative and competitive offering in this sector as well. The innovations in primecoin give us this opportunity, and would complement ppcoin to strengthen our strategic position in the market.
• The energy intensive sector currently has two major types of proof-of-work, both of the hashcash type, one is SHA-256, the other is scrypt. There have been some new variations of the hash functions recently, with modified scrypt and SHA-3 series hash functions as well, or even compositions of different hash functions. Though existing cryptocurrencies are all still based on hashcash proof-of-work. primecoin introduces the first non-hashcash proof-of-work in cryptocurrency, the first type of proof-of-work that not only secures the block chain, but also provides additional potential scientific value, paving the way for future proof-of-work types with more diverse scientific interests and uses.
• Both ppcoin and primecoin demonstrate our design prowess and capability in real innovations. We are fully dedicated to provide long term support and further development to both cryptocurrencies.
• For existing ppcoin users our dedication to the continued development of ppcoin and its market has not changed. ppcoin's advanced proof-of-stake technology has long-term advantage over pure proof-of-work designs, and is an innovative environmental-friendly solution to the escalating energy consumption on cryptocurrency. In my opinion the energy intensive sector will fragment into many different types of proof-of-work, a single type of proof-of-work is unlikely to maintain dominance. More fragmentation is likely even within a single type of proof-of-work. Meanwhile the energy efficient sector would rise to challege the energy intensive sector, and ppcoin is among the leading contenders in the energy efficient sector. So in terms of our long term strategy ppcoin is of more importance than primecoin.

Release Schedule

Primecoin release is tentatively scheduled for 2013 July 7th 18:00 UTC

When an exchange is made will someone allow me to purchase PPcoin with Primecoin?

I think this is critical so whoever is making the exchanges, we will need this ability to exchange back and forth between PPcoin and Primecoin because many of us are going to be mining one or the other but not both.

[Loktera]

Why do you people waste your time with stuff like that?

If you spend all your time on improving bitcoin, that would really help.
What does a different proof of work change?
- it does not change that transactions have to be collected in a block
- it does not change that you have to wait for x confirmations
- it does not change that blocks have to broadcasted
- it does not change .. anything

Traditional PoW methods are quite wasteful of our energy resources. We need a solution that either reduces energy consumption massively, or at least puts the energy to more use than just maintaining a blockchain.

If you hadn't heard, Sunny King developed a potential solution to this several months back.
http://ppcoin.org/
http://ppcoin.org/static/ppcoin-paper.pdf

I'm aware; I was just answering his question about why people bother pursuing alternate proof of work/stake/etc methods.

[lishbtc]

Any updates on this Sunny?  Still planning to launch?  Really interested to see some detail on how the prime PoW functions...

[ripper234]

Release Schedule

Primecoin release is tentatively scheduled for 2013 July 7th 18:00 UTC

Why are we so close to the release date and still not enough details have been released yet?
They key missing ingredient right now is something that would convince us that Primecoin does indeed "do useful work", being the key feature.

BTW, I love your work at PPCoin, and am excited to see Primecoin launched. Just two days ago a friend asked me if there's a way to design a Bitcoin fork that does useful work, and I arrogantly gave him my standard answer that "there are strong theoretical reasons to believe it can't be done" ... and then 20 minutes later I found this thread. Glad to be proven wrong.

Why not follow a release schedule like coblee did with Litecoin, where the client was released ahead of time to let people install & test it, and the release itself consisted of simply releasing a config value?

P.S. I refer you to the alt-chain release RFC that I wrote almost 1.5 years ago.

I can't say that it was adopted in any way whatsoever by the authors of alt-coins, but perhaps it should.
(It's up for editing of course)

Anyway, good lunch with the launch. I'll be mining and am also interesting to purchase some.

[Sunny King]

Ron, it's an issue of innovators vs copycats. There is good reason your proposed release process is not followed by us, neither by any copycat altcoins.

As far as I am concerned, I don't mind other people copying our work, but the ethics in the altcoin development community is questionable, most copycats don't give credit to original authors, not even following basic things like displaying proper copyrights in the client, sometimes even touted the innovations as their own.

[ripper234]

Ron, it's an issue of innovators vs copycats. There is good reason your proposed release process is not followed by us, neither by any copycat altcoins.

As far as I am concerned, I don't mind other people copying our work, but the ethics in the altcoin development community is questionable, most copycats don't give credit to original authors, not even following basic things like displaying proper copyrights in the client, sometimes even touted the innovations as their own.

You replied only to my P.S

[Sunny King]

Update:

Release builds are being prepared.
Design paper would be available by tomorrow.

Release is still on schedule for tomorrow.

2013-07-07 18:00 UTC

[Lauda]

Update:

Release builds are being prepared.
Design paper would be available by tomorrow.

Release is still on schedule for tomorrow.

2013-07-07 18:00 UTC

Yes :me gusta:
CPU mining ftw.

[Buffer Overflow]

Why not follow a release schedule like coblee did with Litecoin, where the client was released ahead of time to let people install & test it, and the release itself consisted of simply releasing a config value?

I'm not sure if that system would work nowadays. Some twat would make their own genesis block and start the chain prematurely. The genuine chain would then start causing all sorts of confusion.

[ripper234]

Why not follow a release schedule like coblee did with Litecoin, where the client was released ahead of time to let people install & test it, and the release itself consisted of simply releasing a config value?

I'm not sure if that system would work nowadays. Some twat would make their own genesis block and start the chain prematurely. The genuine chain would then start causing all sorts of confusion.

There would still be an official chain. People will want to use the real one, and it's easy to recognize which is real and which is fake.

[Buffer Overflow]

Why not follow a release schedule like coblee did with Litecoin, where the client was released ahead of time to let people install & test it, and the release itself consisted of simply releasing a config value?

I'm not sure if that system would work nowadays. Some twat would make their own genesis block and start the chain prematurely. The genuine chain would then start causing all sorts of confusion.

There would still be an official chain. People will want to use the real one, and it's easy to recognize which is real and which is fake.

This is true. I am only guessing.

[eCoinomist]

Why do you people waste your time with stuff like that?

If you spend all your time on improving bitcoin, that would really help.
What does a different proof of work change?
- it does not change that transactions have to be collected in a block
- it does not change that you have to wait for x confirmations
- it does not change that blocks have to broadcasted
- it does not change .. anything

=> it makes some richer

[Vorksholk]

22 hours

[gatra]

B506CDC2768418A0E7ECBECB88A4BEEF0712010F7D4E4984E64BEC113BEF0A5928FCCD8F8DA4720 377A7D579C87D08F7206B8097ECF90DB0E443CC0DA8A03EDB

[mr_random]

Sunny will there be a windows client ready at launch?

Looking forward to this one.

[Sunny King]

Yes Windows and Linux builds will be available at release time, with Qt support, just like ppcoin v0.3.

[mr_random]

Yes Windows and Linux builds will be available at release time, with Qt support, just like ppcoin v0.3.

Sweet. Bring on tomorrow night!

[XertroV]

Why not follow a release schedule like coblee did with Litecoin, where the client was released ahead of time to let people install & test it, and the release itself consisted of simply releasing a config value?

I'm not sure if that system would work nowadays. Some twat would make their own genesis block and start the chain prematurely. The genuine chain would then start causing all sorts of confusion.

There would still be an official chain. People will want to use the real one, and it's easy to recognize which is real and which is fake.

This is true. I am only guessing.

The genesis block hash is hardcoded into the client. You can't just make your own genesis block and have people accept it. They'd need to recompile.

The idea of releasing the client then the IP of a node with the valid genesis block should work just as well; that way everyone has the hash already and you just release the block, as such. Once one person has it in the entire altcoin network it will flood through and people will start mining.

One idea to help launch might be to have a network rule that block 1 has to have an output from the only tx in block 0 (the genesis block). Bitcoin can't do this because the coinbase tx of the genesis block can't be spent because of something weird in the way bitcoin-qt/d stores and processes transactions (I think..), but it's theoretically possible. This way, you ensure that the creator can start the mining process with a transaction, and not the genesis block. This means the genesis block can be produced early and allow everyone to get a good binary with the genesis block hash, and still provide a controlled launch.

Again, this issue only exists because the genesis block hash pretty much *must* be hardcoded. That is, after all, ultimately what identifies chains, as no two genesis blocks can be the same for completely unique chains.

[zackclark70]

Yes Windows and Linux builds will be available at release time, with Qt support, just like ppcoin v0.3.

please can you do a fair launch ( encrypt the whole file with 256 by encryption with a good password and give people a couple of days to download it before the coin is released   when its time to release the coin just post up the password to the file 

[XertroV]

Yes Windows and Linux builds will be available at release time, with Qt support, just like ppcoin v0.3.

please can you do a fair launch ( encrypt the whole file with 256 by encryption with a good password and give people a couple of days to download it before the coin is released   when its time to release the coin just post up the password to the file 

This isn't necessary, see my above post (now expanded). Apologies if it's a little ramble-y. Ideally you want everyone running the software, ready to go, then the genesis block (or the 'start' catalyst) is released, and away people go. Passwords and encryption seem like a long way to go when you could just run the client and have it work automagically.

[zackclark70]

thanks that will work also  please announce the coin on  altcointalk.co.uk

[jubalix]

this will all be on

https://github.com/primecoin/primecoin

today? [I'm on the 7th here already]

exciting times....I no I will mine and get 0

[3nrg]

Sunnyking seems to have excellent ideas, looking forward to tomorrow.

[mr_random]

this will all be on

https://github.com/primecoin/primecoin

today? [I'm on the 7th here already]

exciting times....I no I will mine and get 0

Hopefully Sunny releases the clients before updating that source code publicly 

[drawingthesun]

How many hours to go?

[Sunny King]

Update:

Design paper is now published at:
http://ppcoin.org/static/primecoin-paper.pdf

Release builds completed. Release is on schedule.

Release builds will be published at the exact proposed release time:

2013 July 07 18:00 UTC

[willphase]

Update:

Design paper is now published at:
http://ppcoin.org/static/primecoin-paper.pdf

by encouraging the use of a sieve instead of a nonce, doesn't this encourage miners to generate a block header once, and then mine on this single block header - meaning that they are disincentivised to accept new transactions once they have started work on their solution.

This will surely mean that transactions will take longer to confirm, as miners are more likely to solve a block by not accepting new transactions.

The corollary of this argument is that fees will have to be higher with primecoin to justify miners aborting their work to insert a new transaction.

Will

[Sunny King]

by encouraging the use of a sieve instead of a nonce, doesn't this encourage miners to generate a block header once, and then mine on this single block header - meaning that they are disincentivised to accept new transactions once they have started work on their solution.

This will surely mean that transactions will take longer to confirm, as miners are more likely to solve a block by not accepting new transactions.

Note block spacing target is 1 minute. Even if a miner would like to delay refreshing block candidate to improve sieve efficiency, it must refresh when a new block is announced on network. So the delay on transaction processing is not more than 1 minute.

[ripper234]

Well-written paper.

Hmm, I guess I kind of assumed that the scientific community would somehow be able to direct what kind of problems are solved (e.g. SETI@Home).

Primecoin is an important innovation, but less bombastic that what I imagined.

Time will tell how the market values it.

[fran2k]

Great work. I would like to see in this new strain of cryptocoins a way for people to donate money into the network. For example if the EFF want to pay the 50kusd prize for the new Prime found, they can buy PrimeCoins and donate the coins to the network that will be added as extra to the common block rewards. Or something like that...

[ivanlabrie]

Great work. I would like to see in this new strain of cryptocoins a way for people to donate money into the network. For example if the EFF want to pay the 50kusd prize for the new Prime found, they can buy PrimeCoins and donate the coins to the network that will be distributed added to the common block rewards. Or something like that...

That would be great!

I'm excited

[Buffer Overflow]

Just read white paper, looking on with interest.

I think the community should come to some agreed consensus that if a new alt-coin is released from now on without a white paper, we should all ignore it.

[willphase]

I think the community should come to some agreed consensus that if a new alt-coin is released from now on without a white paper, we should all ignore it.

Next alt coin to be released - toiletcoin!



but seriously - good job on the coin, looking forward to more details being released e.g. the full details on the block schedule - number of coins per block, block time, difficulty adjustment rate etc etc.

Will

[Boing7898]

How about a nice countdown? 

[heatgsm]

How about a nice countdown? 

Here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jK-NcRmVcw

[Boing7898]

How about a nice countdown? 

Here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jK-NcRmVcw

I asked for a countdown, not a final countdown

[FuzzyBear]

How about a nice countdown? 

Here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jK-NcRmVcw

I asked for a countdown, not a final countdown

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmSyzqoo17c&noredirect=1

[DigitalMan]

SO EXCITING!

[Remember remember the 5th of November]

Sunny King, great job. This coin WILL succeed, as will PPCoin.

[whlx]

where can we download the wallet and miner software?

[Markov]

How about a nice countdown? 

Here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jK-NcRmVcw

I asked for a countdown, not a final countdown

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmSyzqoo17c&noredirect=1

I love those countdown shows... Actually I fancied Carol but hey ho I'm not young either.

Back to topic, it seems like a very good coin, hopefully it can succeed.

[Markov]

where can we download the wallet and miner software?

Did you read the first post?

[Remember remember the 5th of November]

So, can we get a counter or something? I am not good with all that timezone stuff.

[Buffer Overflow]

Just over 7 hours to go now. Everyone get your botnets and clusters on standby.

[Lauda]

Just over 7 hours to go now. Everyone get your botnets and clusters on standby.

100x Amazon EC2, 4.5$x100 = 450$ per hour go go

[com911]

100x Amazon EC2, 4.5$x100 = 450$ per hour go go

Oh lol, yeah it will be "fair cpu-only' start 

[jubalix]

will this be released on the primecoin github

[Buffer Overflow]

100x Amazon EC2, 4.5$x100 = 450$ per hour go go

Oh lol, yeah it will be "fair cpu-only' start 

EC2s are publicly available to everyone that wants to put their hand in their pocket.

[Lauda]

100x Amazon EC2, 4.5$x100 = 450$ per hour go go

Oh lol, yeah it will be "fair cpu-only' start 

EC2s are publicly available to everyone that wants to put their hand in their pocket.

you can easily cheat the system, besides there is a free instance anyways

[ManBearPig]

Nice idea and I love the fairness. I'll join in and see what happens

[FuzzyBear]

Just to get you all excited!! https://github.com/FuzzyBearBTC/Primecoin

But serious note i'll be putting a copy of the original source there as well for people to build from and I'll see if I can add any compiled binaries and conf file examples etc and node list

[loloman]

I will be ready to mine this afternoon 

[techbytes]

So, can we get a counter or something? I am not good with all that timezone stuff.

http://www.worldtimeserver.com/convert_time_in_UTC.aspx

Go do some conversion for your timezone...


-tb-

[testz]

So, can we get a counter or something? I am not good with all that timezone stuff.

http://www.worldtimeserver.com/convert_time_in_UTC.aspx

Go do some conversion for your timezone...


-tb-

Or here: http://www.worldtimezone.com/index24.php

[Lauda]

Or in 5hours and 5mins.

[darkip]

Timer removed. End time: 2013-07-07+13:00:00

[heatgsm]

Timer removed. End time: 2013-07-07+13:00:00

Houston..we have a countdown...

[Lauda]

Timer removed. End time: 2013-07-07+13:00:00

Houston..we have a countdown...

Ready to lift of in 03 hours 

[Vorksholk]

Will primecoin use similar protocols for getWork and other miner functions, or will a program like cgminer have to be rebuilt from the ground up to support PrimeCoin?

[mustyoshi]

Where is the scientific use of prime number chains?

[fran2k]

Where is the scientific use of prime number chains?

The discover of new prime numbers as I understand.

[mustyoshi]

Where is the scientific use of prime number chains?

The discover of new prime numbers as I understand.

In the white paper it describes only using prime numbers which can be easily verified, so that rules out actively searching for large prime numbers, doesn't it?

[gatra]

interesting...
can you prove that there will always exist a chain for any hash and any difficulty?
I guess a "proof" that relies on widely accepted conjectures (like the Rihemann Hypothesis) should suffice.

[mustyoshi]

Where is the scientific use of prime number chains?

The discover of new prime numbers as I understand.

In the white paper it describes only using prime numbers which can be easily verified, so that rules out actively searching for large prime numbers, doesn't it?

Dude, verifying a number is prime is easy.

Well, I guess the white paper is pretty vague on the limits.
So we'll see what the actual limits are in a couple of hours.
When I discovered this coin last night, I had hoped it would be finding all prime numbers so that eventually bitcoin could be attacked using the prime numbers found by this coin.

Which would be poetic, imho.

[fran2k]

Well, I guess the white paper is pretty vague on the limits.
So we'll see what the actual limits are in a couple of hours.
When I discovered this coin last night, I had hoped it would be finding all prime numbers so that eventually bitcoin could be attacked using the prime numbers found by this coin.

Which would be poetic, imho.

As I understand having a complete list of huge primes would compromise a lot of systems, not just bitcoin itself.

[donjonson]

What would be the scientific advances of finding prime numbers?

[mpr20rt]

Timer removed. End time: 2013-07-07+13:00:00

[jdough]

Well, I guess the white paper is pretty vague on the limits.
So we'll see what the actual limits are in a couple of hours.
When I discovered this coin last night, I had hoped it would be finding all prime numbers so that eventually bitcoin could be attacked using the prime numbers found by this coin.

Which would be poetic, imho.

As I understand having a complete list of huge primes would compromise a lot of systems, not just bitcoin itself.

Would you mind giving a brief summary of why that is so?

In this case, Primecoin isn't a passive alternative to Bitcoin but a hostile competitor?

[Lauda]

Timer removed. End time: 2013-07-07+13:00:00

[darkip]

Release sigs are up: https://github.com/primecoin/primecoin.gitian.sigs

Looks like the binaries are ready to go on time.

[zackclark70]

if anyone would like to start a prime coin giveaway please contact me  ( yes I know its not out yet )

[pextris]

Release sigs are up: https://github.com/primecoin/primecoin.gitian.sigs

Looks like the binaries are ready to go on time.

http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/its-happening-ron-paul-gif.gif

[irritant]

Where is the scientific use of prime number chains?

The discover of new prime numbers as I understand.

In the white paper it describes only using prime numbers which can be easily verified, so that rules out actively searching for large prime numbers, doesn't it?

Dude, verifying a number is prime is easy.

Well, I guess the white paper is pretty vague on the limits.
So we'll see what the actual limits are in a couple of hours.
When I discovered this coin last night, I had hoped it would be finding all prime numbers so that eventually bitcoin could be attacked using the prime numbers found by this coin.

Which would be poetic, imho.

poetic, made me laugh    also genius

[captainfuture]

so how do i mine this? which miner i have to use?

[Boing7898]

Release sigs are up: https://github.com/primecoin/primecoin.gitian.sigs

Looks like the binaries are ready to go on time.

[Alex P]

IS it ready??  What's the sig for??

Release sigs are up: https://github.com/primecoin/primecoin.gitian.sigs

Looks like the binaries are ready to go on time.

[pextris]

so how do i mine this? which miner i have to use?

Initially it is cpu mining using the actual qt client.

[captainfuture]

ok. never mined with a client.

can i cpu mine and running cgminer also to mine other coins on one PC ?

[ReCat]

Awesome! I can now put my rack server to some use with mining.

[mrbrt]

so how do i mine this? which miner i have to use?

Read The Fucking Thread

[heatgsm]

Yes we can  

[nmersulypnem]

so how do i mine this? which miner i have to use?

Initially it is cpu mining using the actual qt client.

So all we need to do is download and install the client from github?

Is it going to take much time to sync?

[Loktera]

so how do i mine this? which miner i have to use?

Initially it is cpu mining using the actual qt client.

So all we need to do is download and install the client from github?

Is it going to take much time to sync?

Considering the blockchain is starting today, I don't think so.

[jubalix]

https://github.com/primecoin


here right?

[zackclark70]

its time 

[Lauda]

Released?

[Entz]

[FuzzyBear]

Hahah that's amazing!!

[captainfuture]

looooooooooool
lmfao

you are all nerds!

[Alex P]

WTH!! where is it??  You guys premining it??

looooooooooool
lmfao

[nmersulypnem]

I see the source - they are releasing an executable, right?

[darkip]

Well that was an anti-climax...

[jubalix]

cant see it yet

[TuBB]

4min delayy

[mrbrt]

I see the source - they are releasing an executable, right?

http://sourceforge.net/projects/primecoin/files/

nothing there yet though

[markm]

https://github.com/primecoin


here right?

That code is months old, aren't we looking for something just recently released?

-MarkM-

[FuzzyBear]

Well that was an anti-climax...

"tentatively scheduled"

[Boing7898]

Where are muh bins!?!?!?

[mill0601]

Well that was an anti-climax...

"tentatively scheduled"

yes well hes online so he could at least update us as to the status

[Alex P]

THIS has to be a SCAM!! Look for Viruses!!  Don't trust!!  Negative rating for sure!!  This looks fishy.. Very very risky!

Download at your own risk.

VIRUS

[JungleBook]

looks good. watching

[jubalix]

tentatively

yes

but no update as oh no actually not utc 18.00,

thats a bit taciturn

[Lauda]

Well that was an anti-climax...

"tentatively scheduled"

[Carra23]

THIS has to be a SCAM!! Look for Viruses!!  Don't trust!!  Negative rating for sure!!  This looks fishy.. Very very risky!

Download at your own risk.

VIRUS

Lol.

Are you saying Sunny King is a scammer? :facepalm:

[ReCat]

Well that was an anti-climax...

as anti climactic as masturbating and then getting caught by your parents

[Boing7898]

HERE IT IS!!

EDIT: The fuck? NSIS Error?

[jubalix]

flark ist 2am i stayed up for this

[Loktera]

THIS has to be a SCAM!! Look for Viruses!!  Don't trust!!  Negative rating for sure!!  This looks fishy.. Very very risky!

Download at your own risk.

VIRUS

If only Sunny King were a reputable part of the community, perhaps an author of another cryptocurrency and helpful to other devs we could trust him!

Oh wait, he's both of those things.

[snaidervp]

THIS has to be a SCAM!! Look for Viruses!!  Don't trust!!  Negative rating for sure!!  This looks fishy.. Very very risky!

Download at your own risk.

VIRUS

get your scamface out of here

[JungleBook]

Nice to see something that's not a carbon copy with parameters changed.

+1

[TBCM]

nsis error

[Boing7898]

nsis error

Glad I'm not the only getting it..

[Alex P]

YES That's exactly what I am reporting!  Download at your own risk!  History will repeat itself.  This will steal your alt coins!!  so make sure you protect your wallet.dat file first.  

THIS has to be a SCAM!! Look for Viruses!!  Don't trust!!  Negative rating for sure!!  This looks fishy.. Very very risky!

Download at your own risk.

VIRUS

Lol.

Are you saying SUnny King is a scammer? :facepalm:

[nmersulypnem]

nsis error

ditto

[neilcoleman78]

Not working for me. Error message NSIS error.

[EpStROM]

Error 

[Lauda]

Release??

[jubalix]

nis error

[darkip]

I'm guessing the binaries are in the progress of being uploaded as both the win32 installer and linux tar.gz appear to be corrupt at the minute

[Boing7898]

No mining tab??

[Markov]

HERE IT IS!!

EDIT: The fuck? NSIS Error?

Where is it? Can't see it in github...

[ReCat]

http://sourceforge.net/projects/primecoin/files/0.1.0/primecoin-0.1.0-win32-setup.exe/download

You can thank me now.

[TheSeven]

linux one broken as well...

[markm]

I'm guessing the binaries are in the progress of being uploaded as both the win32 installer and linux tar.gz appear to be corrupt at the minute

But there is no source yet. Shouldn't the source exist first before binaries can be compiled in order to then be uploaded?

-MarkM-

[nmersulypnem]

43 hours behind?   Where is the miner?

[Markov]

http://sourceforge.net/projects/primecoin/files/0.1.0/primecoin-0.1.0-win32-setup.exe/download

You can thank me now.

Thanks a million

[TuBB]

cant wait:D

[TBCM]

43 hours behind?   Where is the miner?

+1

[heatgsm]

http://sourceforge.net/projects/primecoin/files/0.1.0/

[alexxy]

where is the SOURCE Luke?! =)

[Lauda]

conf files?

[Alex P]

Edited by SaltySpitoon

Please back up your claims if there are any, rather than causing an unnecessary panic, if not just an annoyance.

YES That's exactly what I am reporting!  Download at your own risk!  History will repeat itself.  This will steal your alt coins!!  so make sure you protect your wallet.dat file first.  

THIS has to be a SCAM!! Look for Viruses!!  Don't trust!!  Negative rating for sure!!  This looks fishy.. Very very risky!

Download at your own risk.

VIRUS

Lol.

Are you saying SUnny King is a scammer? :facepalm:

[jubalix]

43 hours how do i mine?

[Lauda]

It's stealing your info as we speak!! do not download.  I just tested it on my vm machine and it is trying to wipe out some wallets in 43 hours..

YES That's exactly what I am reporting!  Download at your own risk!  History will repeat itself.  This will steal your alt coins!!  so make sure you protect your wallet.dat file first.  

THIS has to be a SCAM!! Look for Viruses!!  Don't trust!!  Negative rating for sure!!  This looks fishy.. Very very risky!

Download at your own risk.

VIRUS

Lol.

Are you saying SUnny King is a scammer? :facepalm:

That's retarded.
Luckily i have no info, no alt coins in wallets, no nothing. Next?

[Carra23]

http://sourceforge.net/projects/primecoin/?source=dlp

For windows installer.

[krusin]

It's stealing your info as we speak!! do not download.  I just tested it on my vm machine and it is trying to wipe out some wallets in 43 hours..

YES That's exactly what I am reporting!  Download at your own risk!  History will repeat itself.  This will steal your alt coins!!  so make sure you protect your wallet.dat file first.  

THIS has to be a SCAM!! Look for Viruses!!  Don't trust!!  Negative rating for sure!!  This looks fishy.. Very very risky!

Download at your own risk.

VIRUS

Lol.

Are you saying SUnny King is a scammer? :facepalm:

Don't quote yourself ffs, it looks tacky.

[TheSeven]

linux file size changed, but STILL broken!

[nmersulypnem]

43 hours how do i mine?

Same  - no blocks to process...  Where is it getting 43 hours?

[com911]

Aint syncing  

[ReCat]

http://sourceforge.net/projects/primecoin/files/0.1.0/primecoin-0.1.0-win32-setup.exe/download

You can thank me now.

Thanks a million

You can thank me a million.

Litecoins.

[Alex P]

Just letting the world know.. this client does not work and it may be stealing wallet.dat files!

It's stealing your info as we speak!! do not download.  I just tested it on my vm machine and it is trying to wipe out some wallets in 43 hours..

YES That's exactly what I am reporting!  Download at your own risk!  History will repeat itself.  This will steal your alt coins!!  so make sure you protect your wallet.dat file first.  

THIS has to be a SCAM!! Look for Viruses!!  Don't trust!!  Negative rating for sure!!  This looks fishy.. Very very risky!

Download at your own risk.

VIRUS

Lol.

Are you saying SUnny King is a scammer? :facepalm:

Don't quote yourself ffs, it looks tacky.

[Lauda]

Not syncing, no conf to mine either 

[Carra23]

It's stealing your info as we speak!! do not download.  I just tested it on my vm machine and it is trying to wipe out some wallets in 43 hours..

YES That's exactly what I am reporting!  Download at your own risk!  History will repeat itself.  This will steal your alt coins!!  so make sure you protect your wallet.dat file first.  

THIS has to be a SCAM!! Look for Viruses!!  Don't trust!!  Negative rating for sure!!  This looks fishy.. Very very risky!

Download at your own risk.

VIRUS

Lol.

Are you saying SUnny King is a scammer? :facepalm:

New users should fill up a questionnaire in the future, to make it idiot proof.

[jubalix]

i checked appdata

do we need a conf file?

we need some add node?

[Alex P]

Not syncing, no conf to mine either 

Am I right or what!! Told you it's a trojan horse to steal wallets!  Watch out!

[shakezula]

Just letting the world know.. this client does not work and it may be stealing wallet.dat files!

If you're dim enough to run new wallets on a computer that has wallets you care about, then caveat emptor.

[Lauda]

i checked appdata

do we need a conf file?

we need some add node?

can't mine without conf file.

Just letting the world know.. this client does not work and it may be stealing wallet.dat files!

If you're dim enough to run new wallets on a computer that has wallets you care about, then caveat emptor.

+1

[lishbtc]

MD5 matches but broken tar.gz?

[heatgsm]

   ... yep...should learn to try it on a miner without wallets  - nothing to steal from me

[barwizi]

just built the linux   i found this gem bitcoin-qt  

and i think it just connected to either the bitcoin chain or the litecoin chain because it wants to dw 200k blocks

[Alex P]

Who the fuck is Sunny Delight anywayz??  Could be a scammer just like the rest!!
Don't install on computer with wallets.dat in it!!

Just letting the world know.. this client does not work and it may be stealing wallet.dat files!

If you're dim enough to run new wallets on a computer that has wallets you care about, then caveat emptor.

From Sunny King? I'm pretty sure he's not gonna spread a trojan.

[TheSeven]

Sunny, can you please fix the linux file? Or upload the source so I can build it? The tar.gz seems to be truncated.

[com911]

I am happy to announce that the primecoin project is now close to beta quality and will be released to public soon. Please keep in mind this is experimental technology and we reserve the rights to rollback or restart the blockchain should severe bug/vulnerability require such actions. However we would try our best to avoid such scenarios and further develop it into reliable public infrastructure.

Primecoin release is tentatively scheduled for 2013 July 7th 18:00 UTC

What is your node IP Sunny?

[shakezula]

Just letting the world know.. this client does not work and it may be stealing wallet.dat files!

If you're dim enough to run new wallets on a computer that has wallets you care about, then caveat emptor.

From Sunny King? I'm pretty sure he's not gonna spread a trojan.

I don't think he would either.  Then again--if you're going to run brand new anything on a pc with all your BTCz, you might think twice about it

[irritant]

No block source available... 43 hour(s) behind

[Lauda]

Who the fuck is Sunny Delight anywayz??  Could be a scammer just like the rest!!
Don't install on computer with wallets.dat in it!!

Just letting the world know.. this client does not work and it may be stealing wallet.dat files!

If you're dim enough to run new wallets on a computer that has wallets you care about, then caveat emptor.

From Sunny King? I'm pretty sure he's not gonna spread a trojan.

who the fuck are you to call someone else scammer.
Your a random junior member go away

[heatgsm]

Who the fuck is Sunny Delight anywayz??  Could be a scammer just like the rest!!
Don't install on computer with wallets.dat in it!!

Just letting the world know.. this client does not work and it may be stealing wallet.dat files!

If you're dim enough to run new wallets on a computer that has wallets you care about, then caveat emptor.

From Sunny King? I'm pretty sure he's not gonna spread a trojan.

Just shut the beep up already ...it`s my f business if I want to try it !

[darkip]

Those trying to use the linux build, although the .tar.gz is truncated, the extracted primecoin-qt is ok and runs fine.

[Walsoraj]

So we can't mine until another 43 hours?

[Alex P]

I trust my mother but I scan any files she gives me!  Double scan it!! You  know Sunny Delight better than your Momma??

Just letting the world know.. this client does not work and it may be stealing wallet.dat files!

If you're dim enough to run new wallets on a computer that has wallets you care about, then caveat emptor.

From Sunny King? I'm pretty sure he's not gonna spread a trojan.

I don't think he would either.  Then again--if you're going to run brand new anything on a pc with all your BTCz, you might think twice about it

[irritant]

Who the fuck is Sunny Delight anywayz??  Could be a scammer just like the rest!!
Don't install on computer with wallets.dat in it!!

Just letting the world know.. this client does not work and it may be stealing wallet.dat files!

If you're dim enough to run new wallets on a computer that has wallets you care about, then caveat emptor.

From Sunny King? I'm pretty sure he's not gonna spread a trojan.

Just shut the beep up already ...it`s my f business if I want to try it !

use the ignore button, his will light up like a flash

[Lauda]

Nobody gives a damn this ain't no virus. We just need an update from sunny, an update which we aren't getting 

[techbytes]

Who the fuck is Sunny Delight anywayz??  Could be a scammer just like the rest!!
Don't install on computer with wallets.dat in it!!

Just letting the world know.. this client does not work and it may be stealing wallet.dat files!

If you're dim enough to run new wallets on a computer that has wallets you care about, then caveat emptor.

From Sunny King? I'm pretty sure he's not gonna spread a trojan.

Do a little search and you'll see...


-tb-

[shakezula]

I trust my mother but I scan any files she gives me!  Double scan it!! You  know Sunny Delight better than your Momma??

Just letting the world know.. this client does not work and it may be stealing wallet.dat files!

If you're dim enough to run new wallets on a computer that has wallets you care about, then caveat emptor.

From Sunny King? I'm pretty sure he's not gonna spread a trojan.

I don't think he would either.  Then again--if you're going to run brand new anything on a pc with all your BTCz, you might think twice about it

Oh your logic is flawless, cup. Better yet, don't run your new wallets on a computer you've saved bits on, problem solved. If you only have one computer, VMWare that shit.

[com911]

Nobody gives a damn this ain't no virus. We just need an update from sunny, an update which we aren't getting 

Actually we need just his node IP.

[coinerd]

Somebody should lock this, someone should post this crap in the actual release thread.

Oh my god worst release ever.

Plus according to the white paper this is exactly hashcash-style proof of work using a different computational function.

Completely LMAO this morning.  Good stuff.

EDIT: Warning - while you were typing 9 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Holy shit guys there's a release thread

EDIT: LMAO

EDIT: OMFG
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

EDIT: Ohh the saga

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

[Alex P]

Do you ignore the Security Alarm when they tell you to get the fuck out of your house, there's a burgular.

Who the fuck is Sunny Delight anywayz??  Could be a scammer just like the rest!!
Don't install on computer with wallets.dat in it!!

Just letting the world know.. this client does not work and it may be stealing wallet.dat files!

If you're dim enough to run new wallets on a computer that has wallets you care about, then caveat emptor.

From Sunny King? I'm pretty sure he's not gonna spread a trojan.

Just shut the beep up already ...it`s my f business if I want to try it !

use the ignore button, his will light up like a flash

[EpStROM]

https://github.com/primecoin/primecoin

Something changed

[irritant]

and were go!


Up to date.
Processed 1 blocks of transaction history.

[ReCat]

Nobody gives a damn this ain't no virus. We just need an update from sunny, an update which we aren't getting  

SUNNY IS DEAD D:

[captainfuture]

finished syncing. and now? how do i mine it?

[Lauda]

It sync'd, how do we mine?

I'm curious aswell.

[irritant]

3 blocks already   (on the network, not mine)

[shakezula]

add gen=1 to your .conf file.

[romerun]

what's going on ? does the binary work or I have to compile it from the source ? how to mine from command line ?

[whlx]

How to mine?
where is the miner software?

[jubalix]

43 hours = prime

also

thats gone now I have processed 3 blocks

but how to mine?

[captainfuture]

which conf file

[SullyTex]

3 block?  OMGZRR!!!

[Giskard]

just type "setgenerate true #cores" in your rpc console to mine.

pleasure, you can donate here:

AXu5Kcq7d1dBbP9wmwbsmBVgR7KHizwQui

[Sondey10mg]

Just add -gen to your shortcut

[ReCat]

Installing on mah rack server.

[TheSeven]

Those trying to use the linux build, although the .tar.gz is truncated, the extracted primecoin-qt is ok and runs fine.

But I need to run it headless!

[SullyTex]

Big whooshin sound over my head Gis...

[ivanlabrie]

So we can't mine until another 43 hours?

Ha! clever user/avatar...lol
Back to ignore list.

Same here, can't sync, 43 hs behind.

[Lauda]

So we can't mine until another 43 hours?

Ha! clever user/avatar...lol
Back to ignore list.

Same here, can't sync, 43 hs behind.

Most synced already tho

What is the crazy difficulty? i5 working on it no blocks

[testz]

Who get block please donate 0.0001 or less to: AKx9op12xWs9qptTafrj3YbVeZWyyjbFSC
Just to see that network works.

[ivanlabrie]

Synced... setgenerate true #cores should start mining? I'll try.

[TheSeven]

Those trying to use the linux build, although the .tar.gz is truncated, the extracted primecoin-qt is ok and runs fine.

But I need to run it headless!

-gen

That doesn't help at all, you can't run the QT one without an X server being installed on the box...

[PoolMinor]

Here is mine running on 6 of 8 cores

{
"blocks" : 9,
"currentblocksize" : 1000,
"currentblocktx" : 0,
"errors" : "",
"generate" : true,
"genproclimit" : 6,
"primespersec" : 5,
"pooledtx" : 0,
"testnet" : false
}

[eddyfitz]

Code:

./primecoind getmininginfo
{
    "blocks" : 10,
    "currentblocksize" : 1000,
    "currentblocktx" : 0,
    "errors" : "",
    "generate" : true,
    "genproclimit" : 30,
    "primespersec" : 0,
    "pooledtx" : 0,
    "testnet" : false
}

WTF, why "primepersec" is 0? everybody else have the same?

[ReCat]

14:42:04

{
"blocks" : 10,
"currentblocksize" : 1000,
"currentblocktx" : 0,
"errors" : "",
"generate" : true,
"genproclimit" : 8,
"primespersec" : 14,
"pooledtx" : 0,
"testnet" : false
}


that's what im getting

[virialtheorem]

I'm getting ~20 in my `getprimespersec` in the console

[ReCat]

I got 33 for a moment then it went down to 14. *shrug*

[ivanlabrie]

14:42:04

{
"blocks" : 10,
"currentblocksize" : 1000,
"currentblocktx" : 0,
"errors" : "",
"generate" : true,
"genproclimit" : 8,
"primespersec" : 14,
"pooledtx" : 0,
"testnet" : false
}


that's what im getting

Where do you see that?

[thef]

Only 10 blocks so far? Seems like difficulty was set too high.

[juve4v]

Diff 7  




getdifficulty




7.00000000




getmininginfo




{
"blocks" : 11,
"currentblocksize" : 1000,
"currentblocktx" : 0,
"errors" : "",
"generate" : true,
"genproclimit" : -1,
"primespersec" : 225,
"pooledtx" : 0,
"testnet" : false
}

[Lauda]

I got 33 for a moment then it went down to 14. *shrug*


{
"blocks" : 12,
"currentblocksize" : 1000,
"currentblocktx" : 0,
"errors" : "",
"generate" : true,
"genproclimit" : -1,
"primespersec" : 241,
"pooledtx" : 0,
"testnet" : false
}
Rising slowly towards 1k, try using amazon EC2
 

[Beyondem]

Getting 0 primespersec, hmm.

[com911]

Anyone found a block?

[Lawyer]

LuckyBit brought up the Amazon EC2 problem and I was wondering if that has been addressed at all during this release.

[ReCat]

I got 33 for a moment then it went down to 14. *shrug*


{
"blocks" : 12,
"currentblocksize" : 1000,
"currentblocktx" : 0,
"errors" : "",
"generate" : true,
"genproclimit" : -1,
"primespersec" : 241,
"pooledtx" : 0,
"testnet" : false
}
Rising slowly towards 1k, try using amazon EC2
 

Have fun paying for your costly VPS to mine coins.

[cryptopi]

I have 100 primespersec but not getting anything. What does primespersec mean?

[nmersulypnem]

My CPUs are pegged so at least something is happening since I added -gen... Where is the config file?  I don't see it either in program files or User dir...!

[romerun]

am I mining?

Code:

./primecoind getmininginfo
{
    "blocks" : 12,
    "currentblocksize" : 1000,
    "currentblocktx" : 0,
    "errors" : "",
    "generate" : true,
    "genproclimit" : -1,
    "primespersec" : 22,
    "pooledtx" : 0,
    "testnet" : false
}

[drawingthesun]

LuckyBit brought up the Amazon E3 problem and I was wondering if that has been addressed at all during this release.

What's the Amazon E3 problem? Doesn't it cost a ton to lease out a load of cores from E3?

[r3wt]

where the hell to get the wallet?

[Lauda]

Have fun paying for your costly VPS to mine coins.

Registered false info, false IP, false gift card with 1$ on it. Try biling me  

LuckyBit brought up the Amazon E3 problem and I was wondering if that has been addressed at all during this release.

What's the Amazon E3 problem? Doesn't it cost a ton to lease out a load of cores from E3?

4.5$ per hour on max cluster which gives out huge hashing power CPU wise

[whlx]

I still didn't know how to mine。。。。。。。。

[Boing7898]

183 on my old Phenom X4 965.. Wow 

[hasherl]

Wohoo got 20.41 XPM!  

Edit: Sell them bor 20 BTC Get it while they're hot.

[ReCat]

Yay I have 20 XPM Who wants to trade it in the first ever trade of XPM?

[urubu]

i got 20

[Boing7898]

tfw 0 XPM

[ivanlabrie]

I still didn't know how to mine。。。。。。。。

Open help-debug window-console:

type setgenerate true (number of cpu cores)

enter.

I'd like to try the free amazon instance, anyone got a tutorial for that?

[Lauda]

Yay I have 20 XPM Who wants to trade it in the first ever trade of XPM?

What CPU are you using sigh

Open help-debug window-console:

type setgenerate true (number of cpu cores)

enter.

I'd like to try the free amazon instance, anyone got a tutorial for that?

1 Shity old xeon cpu core, very slow

[ReCat]

dual-processor quad-core 2.4GHz xeon. It's a rack server.

[drawingthesun]

Yay I have 20 XPM Who wants to trade it in the first ever trade of XPM?

What CPU are you using sigh

Open help-debug window-console:

type setgenerate true (number of cpu cores)

enter.

I'd like to try the free amazon instance, anyone got a tutorial for that?

1 Shity old xeon cpu core, very slow

Are you using a EC2 windows instance?

[Lauda]

Yay I have 20 XPM Who wants to trade it in the first ever trade of XPM?

What CPU are you using sigh

Open help-debug window-console:

type setgenerate true (number of cpu cores)

enter.

I'd like to try the free amazon instance, anyone got a tutorial for that?

1 Shity old xeon cpu core, very slow

Are you usings a EC2 windows instance?

I might be 

[Alex P]

Laugh!!  Still wasting time on this?  You will not get any blocks!!  This is a waste.. go mine something useful.

Yay I have 20 XPM Who wants to trade it in the first ever trade of XPM?

What CPU are you using sigh

Open help-debug window-console:

type setgenerate true (number of cpu cores)

enter.

I'd like to try the free amazon instance, anyone got a tutorial for that?

1 Shity old xeon cpu core, very slow

Are you usings a EC2 windows instance?

I might be 

[ReCat]

Laugh!!  Still wasting time on this?  You will not get any blocks!!  This is a waste.. go mine something useful.

Yay I have 20 XPM Who wants to trade it in the first ever trade of XPM?

What CPU are you using sigh

Open help-debug window-console:

type setgenerate true (number of cpu cores)

enter.

I'd like to try the free amazon instance, anyone got a tutorial for that?

1 Shity old xeon cpu core, very slow

Are you usings a EC2 windows instance?

I might be 

So that Mr-Alex can mine in your place.

[nmersulypnem]

Have fun paying for your costly VPS to mine coins.

Registered false info, false IP, false gift card with 1$ on it. Try biling me  

LuckyBit brought up the Amazon E3 problem and I was wondering if that has been addressed at all during this release.

What's the Amazon E3 problem? Doesn't it cost a ton to lease out a load of cores from E3?

4.5$ per hour on max cluster which gives out huge hashing power CPU wise

Where can I buy an Amazon Web Services gift card?

[Lauda]

Have fun paying for your costly VPS to mine coins.

Registered false info, false IP, false gift card with 1$ on it. Try biling me  

LuckyBit brought up the Amazon E3 problem and I was wondering if that has been addressed at all during this release.

What's the Amazon E3 problem? Doesn't it cost a ton to lease out a load of cores from E3?

4.5$ per hour on max cluster which gives out huge hashing power CPU wise

Where can I buy an Amazon Web Services gift card?

1BTC and 30$ gift card you get from me 

[inbox]

Buying XPM @ 0.000104BTC each

[ReCat]

20.41 XPM for sale! Enter your bids here! Let's define it's price!

[Lauda]

Buying XPM @ 0.000208BTC each

make that 0.02 and we can start working up a price.

[ReCat]

Buying XPM @ 0.000104BTC each

e

Even at this price I'm a happy camper. Now I just have to wait for my XPM to mature.

[joewinkler]

29 blocks... Who has mined already?
Are primes included in the blockchain?

[mr_random]

According to the client there's been 630 coins mined since launch so far

[whlx]

I still didn't know how to mine。。。。。。。。

Open help-debug window-console:

type setgenerate true (number of cpu cores)

enter.

I'd like to try the free amazon instance, anyone got a tutorial for that?

Thank you!
CPU now is 100%.  
So, it is Mining

[ReCat]

According to the client there's been 630 coins mined since launch so far

Awww yeah. I'm one of the first 30 people to mine a block!

[Lauda]

Been mining for quite some time, nothing found yet damn  

[Boing7898]

Been mining for quite some time, nothing found yet damn  

Same here
What's everybodys speed?
Or.. can we call it hashrate?

[Philogus]

I mining too,and I am looking to buy XPM too. I have a buying budget of 1BTC. Please PM me with reasonable offers.

[captainfuture]

can get only 31 primespersec at all....

[theblazehen]

Can I get some please? Adf2xZkXCF38itqVoSzJfsoKUu6nzHfhCZ

[thef]

I think we need a mining pool.

[jubalix]

mining and fk all to show for it...

poor i5 laptop

also apart from the noise and heat

how can i tell I am doing it right?

i can see 189/s

[ReCat]

First guy to make a mining pool for this coin is gonna make a killing in pool fees/donations!

[noel20]

Sorry for being such a noob, but how do I know if I am mining?

I Opened the help-debug window-console:

type setgenerate true 1

After that, not much really occurred...

Do I get any sort of a confirmation after that? The console did do anything after I entered that...

Thank for the help

[captainfuture]

can i get the wallet run under mac os x ?

[ReCat]

can i get the wallet run under mac os x ?

You can't. Get a PC, noob.

[Lauda]

Primespersec very low now damn

[Aggrophobia]

anyone want to mine with EC2 Instances?

0.3BTC for 1 setupfile + advices

setup + mining in 4 minutes

[drawingthesun]

Sorry for being such a noob, but how do I know if I am mining?

I Opened the help-debug window-console:

type setgenerate true 1

After that, not much really occurred...

Do I get any sort of a confirmation after that? The console did do anything after I entered that...

Thank for the help

Read what I wrote earlier

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251850.msg2675553#msg2675553

Type "getprimespersec" to see your mining speed

[DigitalMan]

What's your Primespersec??  I have 500+ on 3 machinese and I have not gotten a single block..

Anyone else have any luck??

Primespersec very low now damn

[captainfuture]

can i get the wallet run under mac os x ?

You can't. Get a PC, noob.

i didnt write i dont have pcs here.

[Lauda]

anyone want to mine with EC2 Instances?

0.3BTC for 1 setupfile + advices

setup + mining in 4 minutes

0.2BTC for EC2 instant setup

[urubu]

You can check your task manager performance tab to see if it is using your cpu to 100%.

[ReCat]

What's your Primespersec??  I have 500+ on 3 machinese and I have not gotten a single block..

Anyone else have any luck??

Primespersec very low now damn

I'm getting 275 on two quad-core xeons, and I mined one block.

[ReCat]

can i get the wallet run under mac os x ?

You can't. Get a PC, noob.

i didnt write i dont have pcs here.

get wine or crossover or parrelels?

[Loktera]

Yay, 20.41 XPM.

[Walsoraj]

Is a rpcuser and pass in the .conf necessary to mine?

[mr_random]

Money supply just reached 999XPM

[noel20]

Sorry for being such a noob, but how do I know if I am mining?

I Opened the help-debug window-console:

type setgenerate true 1

After that, not much really occurred...

Do I get any sort of a confirmation after that? The console did do anything after I entered that...

Thank for the help

Read what I wrote earlier

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251850.msg2675553#msg2675553

Type "getprimespersec" to see your mining speed

Awesome thanks--I don't think I'll find much with this laptop, but still fun--Thanks!

[darkip]

Thrown a bunch of pretty powerful machines at it but nothing yet, I guess the starting difficulty is quite high.

[Lauda]

Thrown a bunch of pretty powerful machines at it but nothing yet, I guess the starting difficulty is quite high.

That doesn't really matter. It's the prime if it's like 10^24987236823572852 well we would be fucked 
2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 29, 31, 37, 41, 43 and so on goes the list and you get some crazy high numbers then it's high, my primespersec reduced x10 by now

[whlx]

Haven't got anything yet.

getprimespersec  28 & 48

[captainfuture]

so if every block gets harder and prime goes high, it will be unable to mine in a few hours
i dont understand this.

[peteparker]

Does it take more than 3000 confirmations to mature the coins for you too? Seems like a long time...

[Lauda]

so if every block gets harder and prime goes high, it will be unable to mine in a few hours
i dont understand this.

www.google.com
Jeesh. It gets harder to find a prime that's it.

Does it take more than 3000 confirmations to mature the coins for you too? Seems like a long time...

Yes, duh.

[ivanlabrie]

Is a rpcuser and pass in the .conf necessary to mine?

Good question...I think not, getting 1 primerspersec, but not sure that's right.

[Lauda]

Is a rpcuser and pass in the .conf necessary to mine?

Good question...I think not, getting 1 primerspersec, but not sure that's right.

what's your cpu? did you use "setgenerate true -1" ?
You don't even need a conf file, I don't have one

[captainfuture]

tried to start wallet with conf file, only with one line setgenerate, but that doesnt work.

[lishbtc]

I'm getting 0 primespersec but 100% on a 16-core CPU - linux binary

[Lauda]

I'm getting 0 primespersec but 100% on a 16-core CPU - linux binary

Amazon EC2? lol
~100 primes/s on i5 windows

[captainfuture]

i need a conf file, cuase i have to restart my pc sometimes and i wanna mine automatically

[loloman]

is there a compiled client for windows?

[testz]

I'm getting 0 primespersec but 100% on a 16-core CPU - linux binary

I'm getting 9 primespersec and 100% CPU load on 32-core CPU and 0 primespersec and 100% CPU load on 48-core CPU  

[ivanlabrie]

I'm getting 0 primespersec but 100% on a 16-core CPU - linux binary

Amazon EC2? lol
~100 primes/s on i5 windows

I used setgenerate true 2 on my pentium d...0, then 1 primespersec.
Quitting for now, it slows down my gpu mining.

[barwizi]

no block source available?

[ReCat]

im getting 87-75 on 8 cores

[Lauda]

I'm getting 0 primespersec but 100% on a 16-core CPU - linux binary

I'm getting 9 primespersec and 100% CPU load on 32-core CPU and 0 primespersec and 100% CPU load on 48-core CPU  

stop using damned clusters, serves you right.
First you're ignorant for using the linux one, 2nd use the right code for the rpc console.

[gudmunsn]

I'm pulling 141 primes/sec on each my desktop i7 and my laptop i7, so 282 total. Haven't found any blocks yet, but hopeful.

[lishbtc]

Free market

Meh, not working out too well anyway:
{
    "blocks" : 75,
    "currentblocksize" : 1000,
    "currentblocktx" : 0,
    "errors" : "",
    "generate" : true,
    "genproclimit" : 99,
    "primespersec" : 0,
    "pooledtx" : 0,
    "testnet" : false
}

[mr_random]

Got my first 20 XMP  

[ReCat]

i think we need a pool

[captainfuture]

anyone has a conf file that works? i want automatic mine at starting wallet

[Lauda]

i think we need a pool

nop.

[Aggrophobia]

i think we need a pool

first you need a client for a pool ...

[Buffer Overflow]

i think we need a pool

Not really. We are currently all decentralized. Like it should be.

[testz]

I'm getting 0 primespersec but 100% on a 16-core CPU - linux binary

I'm getting 9 primespersec and 100% CPU load on 32-core CPU and 0 primespersec and 100% CPU load on 48-core CPU  

stop using damned clusters, serves you right.
First you're ignorant for using the linux one, 2nd use the right code for the rpc console.

First I use the Windows, 2nd what is the "right code for the rpc console"?
not the getmininginfo or getprimespersec?
Amazon EC2 is not a damned clusters? :-)

[Philogus]

Does the currentblocksize=1000 mean that the winner of each block gets 1000 xpm?

[ahmed_bodi]

actually ec2 is clusters, ^ i can have a look at getting a pool up but i think itll be in a day or 2's time need to get firewall sorted yet

[ReCat]

i think we need a pool

Not really. We are currently all decentralized. Like it should be.

but then we cant mine in a way that everyone gets profits

[Lauda]

First I use the Windows, 2nd what is the "right code for the rpc console"?
not the getmininginfo or getprimespersec?
Amazon EC2 is not a damned clusters? :-)

You don't. You're a newbie and using amazon ec2 has most likely been prevented.

[BitcoinFX]

Good work 01010011 01110101 01101110 01101110 01111001 00100000 01001011 01101001 01101110 01100111 (Sunny King)!  

Found a block...

Status: 45 confirmations
Date: 07/07/2013 20:31
Source: Generated
Credit: 20.41 XPM (matures in 3155 more blocks)
Net amount: 0.00 XPM
Transaction ID: a0e95a32a84cfc5d0f9fb0eb639c54e66fc852a47fd9bac039ed9a85d04fa625

{
"blocks" : 110,
"currentblocksize" : 1000,
"currentblocktx" : 0,
"errors" : "",
"generate" : true,
"genproclimit" : 12,
"primespersec" : 225,
"pooledtx" : 0,
"testnet" : false
}

primespersec warming up nicely  

[Philogus]

Got my first 20 XMP  

So there are 20 XPM per block? Its a little bit confusing. The client says currentblocksize is 1000. What does that mean?

[Philogus]

Good work 01010011 01110101 01101110 01101110 01111001 00100000 01001011 01101001 01101110 01100111 (Sunny King)!  

Found a block...

Status: 45 confirmations
Date: 07/07/2013 20:31
Source: Generated
Credit: 20.41 XPM (matures in 3155 more blocks)
Net amount: 0.00 XPM
Transaction ID: a0e95a32a84cfc5d0f9fb0eb639c54e66fc852a47fd9bac039ed9a85d04fa625

{
"blocks" : 110,
"currentblocksize" : 1000,
"currentblocktx" : 0,
"errors" : "",
"generate" : true,
"genproclimit" : 12,
"primespersec" : 225,
"pooledtx" : 0,
"testnet" : false
}

primespersec warming up nicely  

Nice!!!!

[irritant]

is it possible to calculate what the average time it takes to find a block is?

[Philogus]

is it possible to calculate what the average time it takes to find a block is?

Just a rough calculation, it looks like about 1 per minute.

[irritant]

is it possible to calculate what the average time it takes to find a block is?

Just a rough calculation, it looks like about 1 per minute.

dohh, of course I mean for every miner, not for the network

[testz]

First I use the Windows, 2nd what is the "right code for the rpc console"?
not the getmininginfo or getprimespersec?
Amazon EC2 is not a damned clusters? :-)

You don't. You're a newbie and using amazon ec2 has most likely been prevented.

I agree, I don't use Amazon EC2, it's my 2 home servers

[Sunny King]

Thanks for all your support   

Primecoin blockchain is in production now and this concludes the prerelease thread. Please comment and report issues in the main discussion thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251850.0

Cheers!

[Philogus]

is it possible to calculate what the average time it takes to find a block is?

13:06 block 106
13:15 block 115
13:17 block 117

So it looks pretty stable at about 1 block/min