[Bit Funder] [btcquick] [Rising profits]

[statdude]

News release and dividend payment will be completed later this evening around 7:00pm MST.

Ascension,

Thanks for the update. 

Any plan in the future to convert these "profit rights" (of which I own 280k) into real shares of a corporation?

That'll be really cool if this could happen

I doubt that will happen as long is BitFunder is around.
But if it goes away, why not?

[bitwhizz]

The Dividend for this period will be 147 BTC. The reason for the decrease is we had some chargebacks that we were unable to win. We are still maintaining a very low chargeback ratio of 0.175%.

Can you explain the circumstances that caused this? Why was your stored info insufficient to reverse the chargeback?

+1

[Ascension]

The Dividend for this period will be 147 BTC. The reason for the decrease is we had some chargebacks that we were unable to win. We are still maintaining a very low chargeback ratio of 0.175%.

Can you explain the circumstances that caused this? Why was your stored info insufficient to reverse the chargeback?

+1

I will not be disclosing why. That is like giving away all the questions for a test. Just know that we are working very hard to collect sufficient data to prevent fraud. There is no guide on how to prevent fraud related to bitcoin and we are learning as we go.

[jedunnigan]

The Dividend for this period will be 147 BTC. The reason for the decrease is we had some chargebacks that we were unable to win. We are still maintaining a very low chargeback ratio of 0.175%.

Can you explain the circumstances that caused this? Why was your stored info insufficient to reverse the chargeback?

+1

I will not be disclosing why. That is like giving away all the questions for a test. Just know that we are working very hard to collect sufficient data to prevent fraud. There is no guide on how to prevent fraud related to bitcoin and we are learning as we go.

Haha, fair enough. I had to try anyway

[josh4580]

Ascension,

As you know BTCT is closing next month.

What would happen to our btcquick shares if bitfunder shuts down?

What protections do we have?

[sparky999]

also in light of recent events, do you still believe that you are operating entirely within the appropriate laws?

[LiteBit]

Ascension,

As you know BTCT is closing next month.

What would happen to our btcquick shares if bitfunder shuts down?

What protections do we have?

BitFunder has a public asset list showing ownership of shares for each asset. Just like BTCT.co & LitecoinGlobal initiated about a week before the shutdown. Each issuer has access to these so proof of ownership is easy to verify. I can't speak to this asset's plan if what you mentioned to BF happens. But this is how we as shareholders are protected.

[BitThink]

also in light of recent events, do you still believe that you are operating entirely within the appropriate laws?

this. Important question.

But in my opinion, running an money exchange is safer than a stock market. Worst scenario may be just change public share to direct share, so there's nothing related to socket market.

[jedunnigan]

also in light of recent events, do you still believe that you are operating entirely within the appropriate laws?

They never have been. Profit sharing is a pretty name for an equity-based security. They should be registered with the SEC or be turning down US investors (which they have no way of doing on BitFunder). I'm honestly surprised they did this, especially because they claim Marco Santori is their lawyer; I doubt he would sign off on this.

[BitThink]

also in light of recent events, do you still believe that you are operating entirely within the appropriate laws?

They never have been. Profit sharing is a pretty name for an equity-based security. They should be registered with the SEC or be turning down US investors (which they have no way of doing on BitFunder). I'm honestly surprised they did this, especially because they claim Marco Santori is their lawyer; I doubt he would sign off on this.

How about convert all shares to direct shares so that the investors become private shareholders?

[jedunnigan]

also in light of recent events, do you still believe that you are operating entirely within the appropriate laws?

They never have been. Profit sharing is a pretty name for an equity-based security. They should be registered with the SEC or be turning down US investors (which they have no way of doing on BitFunder). I'm honestly surprised they did this, especially because they claim Marco Santori is their lawyer; I doubt he would sign off on this.

How about convert all shares to direct shares so that the investors become private shareholders?

They would still have to audit the investors and make sure they are not US citizens, among other things (see: regulation s - category 3).

see that Ascension, some of us don't mind sharing our competitive edges. it's all about the love

[BitThink]

Still a little bit confused. Does that mean Americans cannot privately invest on a company as a shareholder without approval from SEC?

[jedunnigan]

Still a little bit confused. Does that mean Americans cannot privately invest on a company as a shareholder without approval from SEC?

As it stands, if you want to provide equity-based investments in the U.S. you can have no more than 35 unaccredited investors. An accreddited investor must have >$1m net worth and/or makes >$200K/year. The company must also comply with the entirety of the Securities Act of 1933. So really the only crowd sourced equity you can do in the US (as of yesterday) is to accredited investors (see: https://wefunder.com/ or https://angel.co/public).

With Regulation S you can be a US-based company and just turn down US investors (as I linked earlier) and avoid all the hassle of the SEC.

[BitThink]

Still a little bit confused. Does that mean Americans cannot privately invest on a company as a shareholder without approval from SEC?

As it stands, if you want to provide equity-based investments in the U.S. you can have no more than 35 unaccredited investors. An accreddited investor must have >$1m net worth and/or makes >$200K/year. The company must also comply with the entirety of the Securities Act of 1933. So really the only crowd sourced equity you can do in the US (as of yesterday) is to accredited investors (see: https://wefunder.com/ or https://angel.co/public).

With Regulation S you can be a US-based company and just turn down US investors (as I linked earlier) and avoid all the hassle of the SEC.

Thanks a lot for your detailed explanation.

Then how about pass through? So that means to the company, there's only less than 35 investors. The investors then pass through the dividend to others, which has no relation with the company. The pass through manager (non-American) then put these PT shares on an exchange, and theoretically this is just  the investor's personal behavior, which has nothing to do with the company. Is this legal (at least the company wise)?

[jedunnigan]

Still a little bit confused. Does that mean Americans cannot privately invest on a company as a shareholder without approval from SEC?

As it stands, if you want to provide equity-based investments in the U.S. you can have no more than 35 unaccredited investors. An accreddited investor must have >$1m net worth and/or makes >$200K/year. The company must also comply with the entirety of the Securities Act of 1933. So really the only crowd sourced equity you can do in the US (as of yesterday) is to accredited investors (see: https://wefunder.com/ or https://angel.co/public).

With Regulation S you can be a US-based company and just turn down US investors (as I linked earlier) and avoid all the hassle of the SEC.

Thanks a lot for your detailed explanation.

Then how about pass through? So that means to the company, there's only less than 35 investors. The investors then pass through the dividend to others, which has no relation with the company. The pass through manager (non-American) then put these PT shares on an exchange, and theoretically this is just  the investor's personal behavior, which has nothing to do with the company. Is this legal (at least the company wise)?

I don't want to derail this thread any further, as we already know btquick is breaking the law. But to answer your question, unfortunately no. The SEC will basically try and buy your shares. If they can--through any means--you are in trouble.

If you want to discuss the SEC and American investors further, start a thread it'd be my pleasure to join in. I can tell you now anything to do with US unaccredited investors is gonna be a no, there are no major loopholes unfortunately (at least that I am aware of). I've been doing quite a bit of research would be happy to answer any questions.

[forensick]

everytime i read about SEC and similar regulations, I am quite happy, that I live in Europe... Still, Europe is on the same way like US, just 2-3 years later

[sparky999]

monthly sales as of 26/09 are $455,000 - should be a record breaking dividend in a few days time 380 satoshis is my guess

[MPOE-PR]

I will not be disclosing why. That is like giving away all the questions for a test. Just know that we are working very hard to collect sufficient data to prevent fraud. There is no guide on how to prevent fraud related to bitcoin and we are learning as we go.

The entire "we won't say what's going on but we're working very hard" hasn't turned out well for anyone. What test, from whom do you surmise you need to keep this information?

So, pro tip #1: there's so much to do and so few people capable of doing it in Bitcoin that if your plan makes sense and you seem even remotely competent everyone else who is competent will breathe a sigh of relief. They aren't going to "steal" your idea of doing the absolutely fucking obviously banal, cause so much is needed I couldn't begin to tell you.

Pro tip #2: if you are incompetent, the people who are competent aren't going to steal your business early. They are going to steal it late, just like MPEx demolished GLBSE. They don't need early mover advantage, they will come to your market six months or a year late, break off your arms and beat you over the head with them until you are reduced to a bloody mess.

So, forget about anyone "Stealing" your business. When S.DICE was announced, a bunch of forum muppets rambled on about how it's not worth its valuation because "everyone could do it". And I laughed at them then and so to prove my point that they're laughable idiots they declared that they shall do it! It's been months, who has managed to steal the business? You can't steal any business from the competent, and if you're competent yourself you don't even try to, cause it makes no business sense.

That whole working without a guide issue? It gives you an opportunity to do something potentially very valuable for bitcoin: document your experience, and do it well.

[statdude]

Any chance of a nice P&L again?

[sparky999]

expecting a strong dividend today - can we see the final September numbers it should have been a record breaking month and this should be a record breaking dividend also - somewhere close to 400 satoshi I think