Why are people cheering that ASICMINER will bring 800-1000TH online this year?

[k9quaint]

Instead of blaming ASICMINER for delivering what they promised, why not blame the "competition" for failing to deliver anything on time? If they did, ASICMINER wouldn't stand out so much. Their only fault is delivering on time.

If BFL delivers the rest of their orders (unlikely but possible) and KNCMiner delivers and Bitfury delivers and Avalon delivers their batch of chips, then the ASICMiner hardware will be obsolete.

ASCIMiner will still be able to make a small return on their hardware at wholesale prices. They won't be raking in the cash and we won't have to worry about them owning the blockchain.

ASICMiners only advantage is that they can deliver product.

Actually, they have one more advantage: lower production costs than all the competitors.

Meaning: in a price war, they have considerable ammo.

Edit: And also, products that are proven to work on a large scale since they eat their own dogfood.

Foxconn and Quanta have phones. You can call them and get low production costs. ASICMiner does not have a monopoly on chinese manufacturing. 

Their products do work on a large scale, but we don't have any insight yet into MTBF however.

[bitfair]

Instead of blaming ASICMINER for delivering what they promised, why not blame the "competition" for failing to deliver anything on time? If they did, ASICMINER wouldn't stand out so much. Their only fault is delivering on time.

If BFL delivers the rest of their orders (unlikely but possible) and KNCMiner delivers and Bitfury delivers and Avalon delivers their batch of chips, then the ASICMiner hardware will be obsolete.

ASCIMiner will still be able to make a small return on their hardware at wholesale prices. They won't be raking in the cash and we won't have to worry about them owning the blockchain.

ASICMiners only advantage is that they can deliver product.

Actually, they have one more advantage: lower production costs than all the competitors.

Meaning: in a price war, they have considerable ammo.

Edit: And also, products that are proven to work on a large scale since they eat their own dogfood.

Foxconn and Quanta have phones. You can call them and get low production costs. ASICMiner does not have a monopoly on chinese manufacturing. 

Their products do work on a large scale, but we don't have any insight yet into MTBF however.

Me neither. What is MTBF?

[k9quaint]

Instead of blaming ASICMINER for delivering what they promised, why not blame the "competition" for failing to deliver anything on time? If they did, ASICMINER wouldn't stand out so much. Their only fault is delivering on time.

If BFL delivers the rest of their orders (unlikely but possible) and KNCMiner delivers and Bitfury delivers and Avalon delivers their batch of chips, then the ASICMiner hardware will be obsolete.

ASCIMiner will still be able to make a small return on their hardware at wholesale prices. They won't be raking in the cash and we won't have to worry about them owning the blockchain.

ASICMiners only advantage is that they can deliver product.

Actually, they have one more advantage: lower production costs than all the competitors.

Meaning: in a price war, they have considerable ammo.

Edit: And also, products that are proven to work on a large scale since they eat their own dogfood.

Foxconn and Quanta have phones. You can call them and get low production costs. ASICMiner does not have a monopoly on chinese manufacturing. 

Their products do work on a large scale, but we don't have any insight yet into MTBF however.

Me neither. What is MTBF?

Mean Time Between Failures. How reliable are ASICMiner blades when you run them 24/7 for a year? Might be very reliable, might not.

[bitfair]

Instead of blaming ASICMINER for delivering what they promised, why not blame the "competition" for failing to deliver anything on time? If they did, ASICMINER wouldn't stand out so much. Their only fault is delivering on time.

If BFL delivers the rest of their orders (unlikely but possible) and KNCMiner delivers and Bitfury delivers and Avalon delivers their batch of chips, then the ASICMiner hardware will be obsolete.

ASCIMiner will still be able to make a small return on their hardware at wholesale prices. They won't be raking in the cash and we won't have to worry about them owning the blockchain.

ASICMiners only advantage is that they can deliver product.

Actually, they have one more advantage: lower production costs than all the competitors.

Meaning: in a price war, they have considerable ammo.

Edit: And also, products that are proven to work on a large scale since they eat their own dogfood.

Foxconn and Quanta have phones. You can call them and get low production costs. ASICMiner does not have a monopoly on chinese manufacturing. 

Their products do work on a large scale, but we don't have any insight yet into MTBF however.

Me neither. What is MTBF?

Mean Time Between Failures. How reliable are ASICMiner blades when you run them 24/7 for a year? Might be very reliable, might not.

True that. I would, however, expect them to identify and fix design issues much faster than some of their competitors which do not mine with their own hardware.

[seleme]

The cat is out of the bag, there's no coming back... Bitcoin mining is already taken over by few guys, few more will take a piece in next few months and others will fight for mall stuff that is left.

What's most interesting to me is who in his right mind is paying 4 BTC for AM share. What the fuck are they doing to people for them to become so irrational in buying anything Am related at such lunatic prices..

[bitfair]

The cat is out of the bag, there's no coming back... Bitcoin mining is already taken over by few guys, few more will take a piece in next few months and others will fight for mall stuff that is left.

What's most interesting to me is who in his right mind is paying 4 BTC for AM share. What the fuck are they doing to people for them to become so irrational in buying anything Am related at such lunatic prices..

I'm curious to know: what would you consider a fair price and why?

[freedomno1]

The cat is out of the bag, there's no coming back... Bitcoin mining is already taken over by few guys, few more will take a piece in next few months and others will fight for mall stuff that is left.

What's most interesting to me is who in his right mind is paying 4 BTC for AM share. What the fuck are they doing to people for them to become so irrational in buying anything Am related at such lunatic prices..

I'm curious to know: what would you consider a fair price and why?

Average Network percentage * Unit Sales / Total Value of All Bitcoins
Price is justified if bitcoin wealth keeps growing relative to network

[Paladin69]

The cat is out of the bag, there's no coming back... Bitcoin mining is already taken over by few guys, few more will take a piece in next few months and others will fight for mall stuff that is left.

What's most interesting to me is who in his right mind is paying 4 BTC for AM share. What the fuck are they doing to people for them to become so irrational in buying anything Am related at such lunatic prices..

So not only is the hardware expensive, but so are the shares it sounds like.  What does a share get you?

[seleme]

I'd consider fair price the one that doesn't need 3 lifes to meet ROI from dividends in such unpredictable and risky business like BTC.

It's absolutely crazy price, even 1 BTC for share is huge one in such a risky business, 4+ BTC is wow, I don't have words.

I know people are now expecting that they might sell it for more but it has to stop somewhere and buying it at this point is grrr ...

 .. and much earlier too though I obviously underestimated people's irrational economic behavior in BTC market and refused to buy it when it was below 1 BTC though I'm not complaining, I'm pretty much on same gain by trading and learned much more than I would with holding AM share.

There's just no a single economic justification for Am share price, it's amazingly lunatic one.

[Eric Muyser]

Well, you are free to buy stocks in ASICMiner if you do think they'll continue to do as well as they have.  So it's fair enough in that sense.

I am more worried that they will kill the price of BTC.  When mining is distributed, more of the miners keep the BTC or maybe spend it (I am a seller so I do have bias).  I do not see ASICminer spending BTC of things in the community, it could happen but it is not what they are set up to do.  

Basically ASICminer is a drain on the community.  This does not mean they are doing anything wrong or should be stopped, it is just in most small miners interest not to support them.   You buy a USB stick from them, you allow them to put up an equal (or greater) amount of hash power to balance out their share of the network.   Certainly they can put up a lot more hash power with $100 then they are selling for $100.  Same goes with blade sales.  Also so far, most buyers from ASICminer simply paid too much for the product.  

THIS!

What are you talking about? People spending bitcoins is irrelevant of whether AM or AM products do the mining. That will come from advancements and mainstreaming over time. People will need to purchase the coins. If miners are holding, then the price goes up as demand increases.

[Pierre]

This thread is amazing.  So much impotent rage! 

[Vexual]

[ujka]

Instead of blaming ASICMINER for delivering what they promised, why not blame the "competition" for failing to deliver anything on time? If they did, ASICMINER wouldn't stand out so much. Their only fault is delivering on time.

Right. ASICMINER promised, what, -to never own more then 1/3 of the network and to maximise profit for shareholders. That's what he is doing all that time.

[Gabit]

Well, you are free to buy stocks in ASICMiner if you do think they'll continue to do as well as they have.  So it's fair enough in that sense.

I am more worried that they will kill the price of BTC.  When mining is distributed, more of the miners keep the BTC or maybe spend it (I am a seller so I do have bias).  I do not see ASICminer spending BTC of things in the community, it could happen but it is not what they are set up to do. 

ASICminer has mined approx (3200×30d×10m×0.20networkShare) = 192 000 coins in last 10 months = 19 200 this month alone. KnC sold 500+ orders in days = somewhere around 20 000 - 40 000+ BTC. TerraHash did well too, and many other ASIC makers and "makers". My bet is that there is over 100K BTC dumped because needed fiat for new ASICs. That is almost a percent of all the coins out there, dumped in days to our quite shallow markets. What would happen to gold price if one percent of all the gold is dumped on the markets? In that sense, 19 200 BTC with ASICminer / month, does not look like the biggest a problem. Maybe a part of it, yes, but not most.

Basically ASICminer is a drain on the community.  This does not mean they are doing anything wrong or should be stopped, it is just in most small miners interest not to support them.   You buy a USB stick from them, you allow them to put up an equal (or greater) amount of hash power to balance out their share of the network.   Certainly they can put up a lot more hash power with $100 then they are selling for $100.  Same goes with blade sales.  Also so far, most buyers from ASICminer simply paid too much for the product. 

This I just don't get. Drain? With this much of share holders you call this a drain? With that logic, what you call BFL? They took the BTC and are going to keep all the money. If moon is in the right angle rest of the year, maybe even send some ASICs.  So are all the rest ASIC makers. They do not share their profits, as ASICminer does.

Your reasoning sound like jealousy.

[desired_username]

The cat is out of the bag, there's no coming back... Bitcoin mining is already taken over by few guys, few more will take a piece in next few months and others will fight for mall stuff that is left.

What's most interesting to me is who in his right mind is paying 4 BTC for AM share. What the fuck are they doing to people for them to become so irrational in buying anything Am related at such lunatic prices..

Most people are stupid. You can do the rest with hype. ;-)

[polarhei]

as Far as I know. Kncminer will provide 160 Real Thash/s at least once the thousands of miner made deployed completely while BFL miner is another questions.

Perhaps the people currently using contract to power the thing up. It is not just race issue as you have supported them...

[canth]

Now AM investors are kind of nervous because they investments hardware are in great China and anything can happens. No search warrant needed and can come as they wish, hope AM has hide those mining babies pretty well

Yeah, but I heard they have laser turrets surrounding the building, so no problem.

It may surprise some of you that China is a fairly civilized country and has laws too!

Reading some of the posts in this thread, I'm reminded of those guys in South Park who always say "they took our jobs!"

Actually this entire thread reminds me of the South Park Wal-Mart episode. Even if (some) people hate Wal-Mart, they can't stop being attracted to the falling prices.

*Disclaimer* I am an unapologetic AM shareholder. I will agree that it's somewhat of a concern having 1 company (individual) control a large portion of the BTC network. However, at least this is being done in an honest and mostly transparent fashion. It would be MUCH worse to have a private wealthy individual choose to create their own mining hardware and mine not for profit but for network manipulation - this still is a concern that we should all be worried about. Realistically it would take perhaps only a few tens of millions of dollars to make this happen.

AM on the other hand has shareholders to answer to and in order to maximize long-term profit, it's not in their best interest to attempt to control the network any further than their stated goals.

How about focusing this thread on which AM competitors actually have a chance to sell competitive hardware? Anything else is just whining.

[mr_random]

The cat is out of the bag, there's no coming back... Bitcoin mining is already taken over by few guys, few more will take a piece in next few months and others will fight for mall stuff that is left.

What's most interesting to me is who in his right mind is paying 4 BTC for AM share. What the fuck are they doing to people for them to become so irrational in buying anything Am related at such lunatic prices..

I'm curious to know: what would you consider a fair price and why?

A price he can buy in cheaply at.

[Paladin69]

Now AM investors are kind of nervous because they investments hardware are in great China and anything can happens. No search warrant needed and can come as they wish, hope AM has hide those mining babies pretty well

Yeah, but I heard they have laser turrets surrounding the building, so no problem.

It may surprise some of you that China is a fairly civilized country and has laws too!

Reading some of the posts in this thread, I'm reminded of those guys in South Park who always say "they took our jobs!"

Actually this entire thread reminds me of the South Park Wal-Mart episode. Even if (some) people hate Wal-Mart, they can't stop being attracted to the falling prices.

*Disclaimer* I am an unapologetic AM shareholder. I will agree that it's somewhat of a concern having 1 company (individual) control a large portion of the BTC network. However, at least this is being done in an honest and mostly transparent fashion. It would be MUCH worse to have a private wealthy individual choose to create their own mining hardware and mine not for profit but for network manipulation - this still is a concern that we should all be worried about. Realistically it would take perhaps only a few tens of millions of dollars to make this happen.

AM on the other hand has shareholders to answer to and in order to maximize long-term profit, it's not in their best interest to attempt to control the network any further than their stated goals.

How about focusing this thread on which AM competitors actually have a chance to sell competitive hardware? Anything else is just whining.

At least you admit concern.  That is all I am asking people to do before they invest in the ponzi.  A lot of people start off nice and sweet and innocent.  He won't 51% the network without harming himself, but you're potentially contributing to a scheme that is already going to half the reward to 12.5 for independent miners before we even get there in 3 years.  There is no stopping this from growing to 50% if he wants.  This is dangerous territory.

How about this...lets focus on competitors to BFL...like KNC.  Not competitors to AM.  YUCK.  Now you want to bring the reward for small miners down even further to something like 6.25 if you help another guy similar to AM do the same thing?  Don't help any competitors of AM with a similar "strategy".  BTC-garden is attempting the same thing it looks like.  Avoid.  Then you have ASICMiner with potentially 50%, BTC-garden @ 25% with the potential to keep growing, and who's next?  Soon there won't be much of anything left for the small miner.  We need to disperse the hash rate among as many people as possible.

Why do you want to let others mine for you?  That's terrible.  Isn't this the reason why we despise wall street people?  Hedge fund and mutual fund managers?  Mine for yourself.  Buy your own hardware.  If you can't do that, at least collocate or something.

This is such a bad, bad, fucking idea.  The defenders just aren't thinking this through...at all.  Why would you buy paper metals?  You buy your own and hold it.  Same goes for BTC hardware.

[chiropteran]

The way I understand it is that they plan on bringing 800-1000TH online in the event that their market share (of global hash rate) falls significantly.
They planned to keep at least 10-20% of the network and add/remove hash rate as the total hash rate fluctuates. I can't see that they'll just bring online 1000TH and shoot straight to 90%+ of the network, as that might kill trust in Bitcoin

I don't get this logic.

On the one hand, ASICMINER has hardware capable of 70%+ of the hashing and control of the network, but you trust them to not turn all of it on.

On the other, ASICMINER could just use all their hardware, and you could trust them to not 51% attack the network.

Either way requires trust, and either way could destroy the network if ASICMINER feels it necessary.